Luxury Performance Sedans

hpowders · December 2005

I was basing my opinion only on the photos provided.
The Audi photos looked the best, IMO.
I have yet to see one exterior photo of the E60 that really does it justice.
In the real world, my 5 series exterior takes the cake over the A6, IMO.
Getting that envious look from quite a few people. Not that I care...

jjacura · December 2005

That's quite all right my man.. I expected this from more than one and got it. I know you like the new Accord a lot.:-)

jjacura · December 2005

yes......there is a slight resemblance...it's there for sure...I don't think thats a negative at all...if you ever drive the RL the resemblances are enhanced by an appreciation for the superiority of the RL and all it's great features.

hpowders · December 2005

For $25,000, I like the Accord. I think the EX V-6 is the best bargain in town.
Coincidentally, I had the urge to check one out today, but some other more pressing matters came up.

It's too bad Acura didn't see fit to differentiate the exterior of the RL more from the Accord.
I mean the 2006 RL can be had for about 78% more than the Accord EX V-6. People have a right for that kind of cash to have real style differentiation.

I am not knocking the RL. I'm sure it's comfortable and drives well. One day I hope to drive one as it will help me more in knowing where you are coming from, and who knows, I may wind up liking it a lot as well.

I had the same issue with the previous generation 5 series.
Many times, when I could still see, I confused it with the 3 series. They looked quite a bit alike. One was just a little bigger.
The new 5 sure fixed that problem!

I'm sure Acura has heard this complaint loud and clear and it will be interesting to see if they take it to heart when the next generation RL is born.

laurasdada · December 2005

I would think anyone shopping a TL would consider a G35. I did, liked 'em both plenty. But for my needs, the TL was/is the car for me.

And, IMHO, has better exterior styling than any of the LPS cars listed here! I think that is part of the RLs problem, the TL just looks better! The RL is priced ~50% higher than the TL, but it just is not close to being 50% more car.

YMMV.

lexusguy · December 2005

The RL's interior is nice, but I think they botched the center stack. To me it still looks like it was ripped off of a boom box. The 5 really doesnt look too bad with a light interior, IMO better than the A6, which really could do without the big slab 'o gray. Its too bad so many of them are black\black\black. The interior of the GS is like the driving experience, bland. It's better than the '98-'05, but then again the '98-'05 had probably the worst interior of any Lexus in the history of the company, so thats not much of an achievement.

For me, best interior, Infiniti M, best exterior, Infiniti M.

merc1 · December 2005

On just looks alone, both inside and out I'd have to go with the A6. Much more expressive and really unique than the rest, except maybe the 5-Series.

However Black vs Beige makes a big difference in how an interior looks in photos. The Beige ones always look better to me.

The RL looks like a really nice Accord and Lexusguy is dead on about the center stack.

The Infiniti runs the risk of looking like a giant Maxima in certain shots. It looks a lot better in sport guise IMO. Can't stand those large buttons on the center console, which have been called ATM-like. Give me a black M45 Sport and now we're cooking.

Exterior - A6 by a good margin then 5-Series/M (both need to be in "Sport" guise to look their best IMO).

Interior - A6, GS, 5-Series.

M

lexusguy · December 2005

This and the RL center stack were seperated at birth, I think.

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2005/257/x257HXC6-f.jpeg

erickpl · December 2005

WOAH!

-Paul

docnukem · December 2005

Merc:

When you say "sport" guise for the M, do you mean the different wheels (which I believe is the only visible difference--unless you can tell the difference in metals in the tail-pipes), or are you adding the aero kit (which can be put on both sport and non-sport)?

jrock65 · December 2005

Exterior: A6
Interior: M45

tayl0rd · December 2005

I have always felt a similar way as you and lexusguy about the RL's center stack, but I certainly wasn't going to be the first to say it!

At least, not in this forum. All the buttons and switchgear on it look cheap and dated. Come to think of it, they feel that way, too. However, barring the bargain basement center stack, the RL overall has a quite attractive interior. :shades:

lexusguy · December 2005

It's attractive, but it doesnt quite measure up to the other cars in the class in terms of looking and feeling like a real luxury car. Its fine at `$40K, but I dont think Acura could expect to get $50K+ for a V8 version (if one was offered). I think the RL's interior level is closer to the Passat 3.6 than the A6.

dhamilton · December 2005

Myself and other RL lovers have resigned ourselves to the fact that we are in the minority as far as this awesome car goes. The sales certainly reflect a minority as well.
However, and I don't mean to be offensive, but it seems a bit silly to rag so much on the RL looking like an Accord when there is so many styling similarities in the following
Toyota Avalon/Lexus GS...The roof line and the trunk.
Audi A6 {which I love but has nothing to do with styling}/Volkswagen Passat...Body lines, trunk, oh hell the whole thing.
Infiniti M/G35-Nissan Maxima-Altima... Body lines, hood, not the trunk but the tail lights.
Just my two cents, and I'm sure most don't see it. I sigh to myself, and look lustfully out the window at my brother-in-laws beautiful 05 RL. :confuse:

merc1 · December 2005

You know what, the wheels are the only real difference I think. Like a lot of designs in the last few years, the M is wheel and color dependent to look its best IMO. Yes just the Sport model is what I'm thinking about. The optional aero kit looks ok, a lot better than the RL's "A-Spec" stuff, IMO.

M

merc1 · December 2005

Oh my, they do look similar don't they!

M

jjacura · December 2005

Nice Post dhamilton, a good reply...
simply put and unoffensive.

"Tis the day before Christmas
and all through the house
not a creature was stirring
except maybe Merc1's mouse."

Merry Christmas everyone!

dhamilton · December 2005

Thank you jjacura, and a truly merry Christmas to all and a happy holidays

mechrad1 · December 2005

I like the RL very much and will be going in this week to battle the dealers for one. Can someone in the know tell me how many units they did sell last year. I assume they will tell me that it is a hot car and they cannot do invoice or close.

Interesting how one comes to make choices at this level car. I test drove rl, m35 , gs300. I like the RL best for one simple reason. In my opinion it has the nicest interior. The interior is the part of the car I see the most. I initially was enthralled be the pep of the M and actually own a Jag 4.2. As almost all of my driving is around the streets of my hometown I have concluded I just dont need all that power that the Jag has and what I need is more creature comforts and better technology. You guys ever sit in the seats of a Jag. I think the leather chairs at Starbucks are higher quality. Another expensive lesson learned. You are never too old to learn.

Thanks for your help if you have that stat for me. I want to whip it out when they hit me with that baloney about how hot the car is.

Thanks,
Bill

markcincinnati · December 2005

Clicky here:

There is nothing quite as wonderful as Money. . .

lexusguy · December 2005

Actually, the RL is not setting the charts on fire at all. It usually fights the Audi A6 for last place in the segment (and often loses), and wont deliver the 20,000\yr that Honda was expecting. The last time I was at the local Acura shop, there was at least 15 of them sitting on the lot. I dont think you'll have any trouble getting a good deal.

lexusguy · December 2005

Interesting report, and I think for the most part dead-on, although personally I would reverse the positions of the A6 and M.

hpowders · December 2005

And I would unsurprisingly reverse the positions of the BMW and Audi.

lexusguy · December 2005

Yeah they basically said the same thing as in a lot of other reviews, great car, too much $. But as Mark has said at length, when you lease, the picture changes. How many people are really paying $70k for a 550?

philbaker · December 2005

I had my eyes on the M35, but after reading this forum, I included the RL as an option, only because with discounts it was close to the cost of a M35. I had the opportunity to live with each for a week and that clinched it for me. The RL was more comfortable, had a much nicer interior, and the best ergonomics of its audio/gps system. I bought one a couple of months ago and couldn't be happier. Don'tknow their sales number, but with the discounts offered it can't be as high as they would like.

hpowders · December 2005

They may not be paying $70k but they are paying $1000 a month on a 36 month lease; not exactly chump change.
To pay $36k and then have nothing to show for it after 3 years.
Doesn't make any sense to me.

jjacura · December 2005

Stories like yours trickle in and make me feel good. I know you have to really be excited. Another guy that ended up buying the RL after making difficult comparos...That's great. Congratulations Phil...

jjacura · December 2005

Maybe somebody can come forward and really NAIL the reason it's better to lease but I have yet to be convinced why.

dhamilton · December 2005

I don't have a hard financial answer for leasing, but I will take a swing.
1. Because it depreciates so quickly. I have no desire to make two payments on a car, one to credit union, one to mechanic.
2. For some a car is more than just a tool. Driving is a hobby as well as recreation. Do you have a hobby that requires money? Do you always buy the thing that makes the most financial sense.
3. Just because you sell a car after paying it off doesn't neccisarily mean you've made money. Repairs, time off to take care of service all add up to money. There is still a cost to operate regardless of leasing or buying.
I'm not going to say leasing makes more sense than buying all the time for everyone. I will say that for me a car is an investment in my happiness. Cars are a blast. Vacations are a depreciating asset {especially in Vegas} but they do a body good.
Not for everyone but it's for me

sergeym · December 2005

Here is a simple reason. The residual value of my 2005 545 (MSRP $64,220, 3/15K lease) is $38K. By the lease end the real life wholesale price for the car will be around $29K at best. So, what we have: $9K savings on residual only + 2.3K sales tax savings. Plus no accident related (if any) value loss. Plus no upsets by small dents, scratches. Plus new car every 3 years. What more to ask for.

dewey · December 2005

Having negotiated buy/cash deals for family/friends in various car dealers(Acura, Lexus and BMW), I can tell you that there are great non-lease deals out there that would make you think twice about leasing.

Real world depreciation for me is irrelevant since I keep my cars for a decade or longer.

nebraskaguy · December 2005

Plus new car every 3 years. What more to ask for.

And continual car payments. If that's what you want, fine. As for me, I love getting my cars paid for then enjoying them for a long time afterwards.

hpowders · December 2005

I'm leasing my 545 because my rental charge is only 2.4% compared to a purchase loan interest of about 5.5%.

I also enjoy having a new car every 3 years and the new technological innovations this choice brings me.

BMWFS makes it very easy with their high residuals.
You can actually lease a 525 right now for about $45 less per month on a 24 month lease than on a 36 month lease because the residual on the former is now 76% and on the latter, 62%.

Can you imagine trying to negotiate a 24 month car loan for a lower monthly payment than for a 36 month loan?

Welcome to my world.

hpowders · December 2005

Another significant reason why I prefer to lease my LPS:

To buy my 545 would have required a cash outlay of at least $30,000 on a $60,000 vehicle to keep the loan payments reasonable.
I really don't want to commit that kind of cash to a depreciating asset.
My lease terms called for about $1000 in cash upfront.

After 3 years the car will be "out of my system" and I will be anticipating the newest and the best that I can drive for another 3 years with minimal cash outlay.

It may not be for everybody, but it works well for me.

pat · December 2005

you folks are looking for this discussion: Leasing vs. Purchasing

hpowders · December 2005

That happens to be my last word on the subject over here.

Let's take it over to "Leasing vs. Purchasing" if anyone wants to continue this.

See post #182 on the above mentioned thread for an excellent exposition defending the purchaser's side of the debate.

nvbanker · December 2005

Have to agree with you about the interior design, Bill. You are right on the RL, and I also consider the cabin #1 when selecting a car. It has to fit well, feel great, and look cool, or I'm never happy in the car. It's the biggest issue I have with my LS430. It's an awesome car, but the interior is Toyota like. Lotsa features, but not very cool.

markcincinnati · December 2005

. . .really nailed it for ME. My number one choice, at the time, was the Audi. The highest value, at the time, was the Infiniti M35X. The Infiniti M35X may not be everyone's cup of whatever, but if you are comparing a 530xi and an M35X and you are going to go with an auto transmission, the M35X is "almost" a BMW insofar as performance goes.

MONEY offers up both the M and the 5 as "10's" in the performance department -- personally I would give the BMW a 10 and the Infiniti either a 9 or a 9.5 -- but the point remains both Audi and BMW (and the other guys frankly) need to be buying and studying how Infiniti did it.

When Infiniti offers up a 6spd transmission, tones down the interior a wee bit, adds a very few touches that the Germans have or offer, Infiniti will be an even more serious threat than it now is.

Now, having said that, the super subvented BMW leases coupled with a wonderful (so I am told) manual transmission on the 530xi would make it my #1 choice TODAY.

Yet, based on the criteria discussed in the MONEY piece, my main issue is with the ranking of the RL (which seems to be in contrast to the nearly glowing review C&D gave it.)

The Lexus jus' can't get no respect -- and after reading the review, it seems the Acura and the Lexus should be reversed. Evertyhing else -- based on the review -- seems to have come out as it should (biased, as are we all, but based on the author's text, "as it should.")

I started this by saying "proves nothing." It is however, probably somewhat influential unless the reliability trait were to be given some considerable weight (it appears it was given minor weight, based on the article, though.)

These are all fine cars -- more alike than different. Only the BMW truly offers "sport" of any kind. More's the pity most folks (the vast majority) buy or lease them more or less emasculated.

But, that's just my opinion, of course. :shades:

On another subject, drove the Cincinnati to Pittsburgh and back route for Christmas to see the in-laws; and, with 3 adults, 2 Shetland Sheepdogs, a full trunk (plus a case of Yeungling lager (SP?) on the back seat, the mileage was in the mid to high twenties and the speeds were 70 to 90 all the way on I-70 (east and west). Yet, even at these cruising speeds, I was a middle of the roader in terms of speed, passing about as many people as passed me.

Point is, the 3.2 engine all things considered, "sips" fuel and never gets out of breath.

Turned over 12,000 miles this morning on my way into work, "I've seen the Exorcist 128 times and it just keeps gettin' better" -- Beetlejuice.

rjlaero · December 2005

Here's the sales stats for the new Audi A6

Thru Nov 2005: 15,740
Thru Nov 2004: 12,096

I think Audi is happy moving another 3,700 A6's over last years totals. The new body style cars are doing quite well.

Acura has moved 16,294 RL's so far this year.

The RL looks too much like a glorified Honda Accord, and it doesn't have the presence of a $50,000 vehicle IMO. I guess that's why the RL is doing OK, but it isn't setting the world on fire sales wise.

rjlaero · December 2005

It can be a business expense if your self employeed, and writing off $1000 ++ month lease payments makes the tax accountant happy. That may not be the case for you if it's a personal car that you can't write off.

A lot of people also get car allowances from their business. And 9 times out of ten, their company wants them to lease a car and not buy it, so they can deduct it as business expense, whether it's $500 a month or $1500.

You also have to consider that people leasing $80,000 cars usually make quite a lot of money. You lease thing that depreciate and buy things that appreciate. If you hold onto a car for 7-8 years and are frugal with your car purchases, then leasing may not make much sense to you.

But if you buy a $75,000 Mercedes, BMW, Audi, or Lexus and trade it in 3 years later, it's going to be worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it. Most high-line cars depreciate 40-50% of the original MSRP after 3 years.

markcincinnati · December 2005

The LPS marquis "seem" to "want" their customers to lease, not buy.

The warranty/maint programs and subvented leases seem targeted at the 24 - 39 month time frame. The CPO programs, too, seem to support a two tiered approach:

Tier One:

24+ month lease, turn - in, CPO it, sell or re-lease the "used" car to a tier two customer, lease tier one customer another car via more subventing

Tier Two:

24+ month lease (with 100,000 mi or 6yr warranty extension), turn - in, see if customer is ready to lease a new car or will be repeating the CPO cycle -- keep enticing tier two customer with loyalty bonuses, deals, subventing and more subventing until they graduate to being a tier one customer.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

BMW, for one, seems keen on leasing cars for a term that will mean the customer always has a warranty, always has a young car and always has an "affordable" payment.

My business is IT [services] -- although we do "advise" our clients with respect to hardware, software (IT infrastructure). Businesses often have a "permanent" IT lease payment and they are constantly upgrading their systems whether they are users of [non-permissible content removed], Oracle, SAP or other "global" whole enterprise solutions.

These very same middle and upper managers who make these decisions are the customers of Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infinti, Lexus, Mercedes, and the rest of the Premium and near Premium cars. Keeping their systems [and their cars] "at the current release level" seems to be the norm.

Now, I am the old fart in the crowd, at 54, but my clients are generally in their mid 30's to mid 60's and for the most part their cars are less than 4 model years old and generally are one of the broadly defined LPS cars we drone on and on about here on edmunds (and elsewhere.)

Rarely do I pull into my client's parking lot and drive up and down executive row and see a Honda or a Toyota or a Chevrolet or a Ford. Usually, what I see are the Premium cars. We do work for Honda here in Ohio -- what do you think the management (at a certain level and up) drives? Acura's, Toyota in Kentucky is a client -- there too, the cars in the parking lot are from Lexus.

Sure the management team knows where its bread it buttered and also they probably get sweet deals as part of their comp packages -- but this same group of folks NOT in the car biz also drives the LPS marquis (plus a smattering of Volvos, Jaguars and even the odd Saab here and there.)

Company cars? You bet, for a lot of them. The lease payment is 100% acceptable as a deduct. If you use your car 80% for biz and the payment is $600 -- you have a $480 per month deduct. Buying a depreciating asset (for these people in these positions in these examples) is relatively rare.

At Audi (here in River City) over 75% of the cars "sold" are leased -- I think at BMW it has gone even higher.

My buddy who owned Audi, Porsche and VW said to me, "hardly anyone leases a VW and hardly anyone buys an Audi or a Porsche."

Zinzinnati is a conservative German City full of folks who, apparently, mostly, lease their LPS cars. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong.

LPS cars, then, seem to be overwhelmingly "rentals."

After saying all of this, my wife, last night, actually said, "perhaps we should buy the next one and keep it forever."

Folks, seems to me, who drive LPS cars like the "latest and greatest" -- a four year old whachamacallit just doesn't get it done for most of us [them.]

Of course these are completely and utterly unscientific observations, don't you know? :shades:

rjlaero · December 2005

Another great point about leasing. If someone smacks your car and it's damaged more than 25%, it's going to affect the resale value of your car. You don't worry about that with leasing. Just turn it in and it's not your problem when your done with it. Try to sell a high-line European car with an accident history on a Carfax. Even if it's minor, it makes it very tough to move high dollar cars that have any blemishes on their history.

Also, many states require gap insurance be included included in the lease price. If you total your car, you don't thave to worry about a scenario like....the bank says it's worth 32k, but I owe 45k.

bmwdoug · December 2005

Well, I have to respectfully disagree. Do you rent your back yard swimming pool? Pools in my neck of the world start at $40,000 and go all the way up to over $100,000. If you should decide to sell your house at some point in time, there is no way you get back your investment. You might be lucky to get 20% in return, and consider yourself lucky if you get that amount! But, you own the Pool, you get enjoyment out of the pool, you can do what you want with the pool.

It is the same with cars. I have been over and over leasing vs buying. I have been all over the map on which is best. People keep saying that you don't take the depreciation hit on a Lease. Well, you are paying the depreciation! So, yes you do take a depreciation hit. Why are leases being pushed so hard by BMW and other manufacturers? Because, they make money for Dealer and Company. A person leases a car for two or three years, then takes the car back to the Dealer and leases another one. The Dealer gets money from the new lease, and makes a lot of money from the car that was traded in by CPO'ing it, then selling it for a very, very nice profit.

The person who owns a car can do what they want. They can trade it in, sell it privately, or keep it. They OWN the car. If you can make a nice down payment, buying is much better the leasing. Unless, you can deduct the lease payment as a business expense. In my humble opinion, paying on something for two or three years, then getting ZERO ownership does not make sense. I have ran the numbers over and over, it is the only way to see which way is better. In each case buying wins out, even with depreciation.

Yes, there are opportunity costs. But, who is to say that investment is going to return the big money? What if it busts? Also, how many people really take that down payment money and actually properly invest it? Those who are that savvy, have those means, and understand the market that well, I can guarantee you are not worried about the costs of leasing or buying; it is chump change to them. Bottom line is this: A $50,000 plus car is that amount whether it is leased or purchased.

tayl0rd · December 2005

BMW: Birth of a Sports Car on SPEED? It's a BMW propaganda program about the new 6-series. Pretty interesting. It's been cataloging the steps of its creation from design, to testing, to (this past Sunday's episode) production. It's pretty interesting. It airs at 6 or 7 pm each Sunday. But I'm not sure if there will be any shows after the Production episode. :sick: If you're lucky, you can catch a rerun of it some time this week.

rjlaero · December 2005

It's hard to compare leasing a highline car with buying a 40,000 swimming pool in your backyard. I don't know if you're talking million dollar homes in Miami or Beverly hills, but I don't know of any people who have $60,000 swimmimng pools in their backyard.

And if you have that much money anyway, you're probably living in a $750,000 -$ 1,000,000 dollar home, in which casy you have quite a bit of extra income to play with anyway.

You shouldn't be stressing out over a few thosands dollars on leasing vs. buying a high line car luxury car. Maybe the guy who's leasing an entry level Audi A4 - BMW 3 series car for 369 bucks a month. But that's a different market of clientle.

bdr127 · December 2005

Well, I have to respectfully disagree. Do you rent your back yard swimming pool? Pools in my neck of the world start at $40,000 and go all the way up to over $100,000. If you should decide to sell your house at some point in time, there is no way you get back your investment. You might be lucky to get 20% in return, and consider yourself lucky if you get that amount! But, you own the Pool, you get enjoyment out of the pool, you can do what you want with the pool.

Without getting into a big debate about swimming pools, I think the biggest reason you can't compare leasing cars to pools because you can't exactly give the pool back when you're done with it....

docnukem · December 2005

You think you don't get back your investment on pools, you should try darkrooms. A decent one may only set you back 12-20k, but you get nada for it when you sell (particularly now with digital). The one we have now has a very nice sink in it...it would be great for fish-cleaning.

If only I could have leased them....

(it did make a very nice place to hide gifts this holiday season)

But getting back to 50k luxury sport sedans, there are valid arguments on both sides. If you need a new car every three years and know how much you are going to drive, I think a lease makes perfect sense if the payments are going to be the same as a purchase with a large down-payment. This is especially true with brands whose reliability are in question. Others may buy an LPS because the new every three just isn't necessary and/or their driving habits are unpredictable. Personally, I plan on keeping my M35x until the my (almost) 11yo gets out of high school. Hence, I bought.

markcincinnati · December 2005

. . .but it seems sometimes that LPS cars are not meant to be bought. At least the MFG's certainly don't want that, apparently. They subvent the leases with way below market financing and inflate the residuals (in a closed end lease) to make the payment so low that only a HUGE HUGE discount off of MSRP makes buying them even remotely a sane choice.

Having said that, if you can keep one more than 5 or 7 years without breathtakingly expensive repair bills and maintenance costs, go for it.

My observation people do not buy and hold LPS cars, but they'll buy a GMC SUV or a Chrylser 300M and keep it "forever" and apparently don't have to put a ton of money into them.

My cousin has what I think is an ancient Chevy SUV, it is worthless financially, but it has good tires and brakes, the A/C works and it has a pretty good sound system, it uses regular and it is paid for -- it literally takes a lickin and keeps on tickin' -- perhaps a Lexus would do that too.

Once I get to 50,000 miles on one of these cars (or close to it) I start to sweat about the "normal" repair and / or replacement of the power actuated steering column which has a component part price of $1500 and god knows how much for labor. . .but that's jus' me.

Seems the cost of buying an LPS car vs leasing is about the same cash-wise. Of course at the end of 5 years, I just think I would feel so vulnerable in my gizmo intensive LPS car, unless I was willing to do without the creature comforts that were part and parcel of the reason I got it in the first place.

But, like I said, thas jus me. . . :shades:

bmwdoug · December 2005

Well, lets look at some actual number using the current Lease Rates of BMW. 2006 530i, MSRP $54,500
Sell Price $51500
Down $ 0
Security $ 500
ACQ Fee $ 625
registration $ 425
Tax rate 7.97%
Lease Term 24 months
Money Factor 0.00140
Residual 74%

Total lease payment is $670.38. Total payments are $17078.89 - $500 Security=$16578.89

Now, at the end of two years, you drop it off. Assuming you are NOT charged for wear and tear, and who knows if that will hold true, and assuming you are NOT Charged for excess miles, you have paid $16578.89 for two years of renting your 530i.

Now, you have to get another car, you just turned in your rented car. So, lets say these great rates stay the same. You do it again. After four years, you have spent $33,157. Yet you own nothing.

Now, you are going to have to do the same thing again. So, in another two years, you will be out another $16,578.89, and still NO ownership.

Okay, now lets buy the car for the selling price of $51500, add the 7.97% tax, plus license fees for an OUT THE DOOR TOTAL of $56094.55.

Total Cost $56094.55
Down Payment $ 38,0000
Owed $18,094.55
Loan( 60 months at 4.5%) $331.90
At 48 months owed= $ 3,897
Kbb value $26,450 = trade in value, Private Value $30805. Now this is what a 2002 530i goes for now with the same options. I believe the current E60 will be higher since the engine is now bigger, and it a new design. But, for arguments sake, lets use these numbers. So, lets use the Trade In Value + the Private Party Sale Value and divide by 2 for a Conservative figure of what you could sell the 4 year old BMW in the Private Market

Selling Price $28627
Owed $ 3897
Car Equity $ 24730
Amount Paid $38,000 Down +15931 for a total of $53931
Total Paid Costs $53931
Equity $24730
Total Net Cost of 48 months: $29201

Lease Costs after 48 months $33,157
Buy Costs after 48 months $29,201

Buying saves $3956. Plus you have an option to keep or sell the car. You are in control.

Buying makes the best sense if you can afford the down payment, and if you don't have some "GREAT" investment for the down payment money, which maybe effects two percent of the leasing people. I would venture to say that 98% of the people do not have the $38,000 available for investing, or if they do, they do nothing with it. It just sits in a bank or is spent.

A Lease looks great upfront, because the costs are low. And, if you were never going to drive again after two years, it would be a GREAT option. But, the fact of the matter is that is not the case. So, the costs accumulate with no equity whatsoever. Therefore, the more times a person leases over a lifetime, the more the costs separation grows in favor of buying.

lexusguy · December 2005

Yeah I saw this past Sunday's episode. Definitely interesting. Curiously, though Benz as a target was mentioned several times, there was never any footage of them putting the 6 against an SL, just the XK8. They were also way off on the price, a 645Ci coupe is not even close to $100K.

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