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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    What's up with that crazy shifter? It looks like an arcade game joystick.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What's up with that crazy shifter? It looks like an arcade game joystick.

    It's a space saver for the iDrive controller, the better alternative to the column stub that M-B is still using.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "FX45 does 0-60 in 6.3 seconds (FX35 in 7s) or so while MDX is 7.5 or so. 7.5 is rather slow. FX45 has nice exhaust note, sport suspension and excellent roadholding in turns (0.89g skidpad)."

    You've answered my question. I've always wondered who in the world would by an FX45 - it seems like it's designed for the bi-polar demographic. As in, "I really want a sports car, but I (think) I need an SUV. So I'll get an SUV that emphasizes 'S' at the severe expense of 'U'". I

    Admittedly, I've never been a fan of the FX design. A bit too "fugly" for me. But even when my wife and I were slightly tempted by the X5 and Cayenne, we quickly came to our senses and recognized that the U was a necessity. So we opted for the MDX that can actually handle snow, carry our kids and their friends and gets loaded up regularly for family vacations and trips. I guess some might see the FX as the best of both worlds. I think that's a little dillusional, but I respect that opinions vary greatly.

    By the way - please don't feel too bad for us in our MDX. Our family of four fits just fine in our other vehicle. And if you are ever sitting at a stoplight feeling zesty in your FX45, don't pay any attention to my 8 year old daughter trying to egg you on from the back seat of our 911S Carrera Cabriolet as we pull up next to you. I never thought 7.5 seconds was all that slow for an SUV, but 6.3 seconds is pitifully slow for anyone that is more concerned about "S" than "U". (By about 2+ seconds). ;)

    I'm not sure what any of this has to do with luxury performance sedans, but since you started it, I thought I'd add a different perspective.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,324
    geesh. talk about blanket statements.
    oh well, i have lots of comments, but like you said, its not the right place.

    orr... is it? hmmm... if we put this in context of luxury performance sedans, we're talking luxury vs sport (rather than utility vs sport). And while one side of your equation favors the utility heavily, the other side favors the sport. To say a car is pitifully slow at 6.3 secs because others are faster is the equivalent to saying one is pitifully nonluxurious because it doesn't offer alacantra leather (or pitifully nonutility because it carries 7 passengers instead of 12). The idea behind luxury performance sedans (and crossovers) is not to get the best of both worlds, but to try to offer MORE of each world.

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • dzubadzuba Posts: 159
    92K miles on the car and ready for another Inspection I..........believe it or not the largest BMW Dealer in Chicago (where I bought the car) actually does not recommend changing the transmission fluid in the car........ever! Does that make sense or are people having the trans. fluid changed?

    Also said I'll need new spark plugs at 100K, at a cost of $288.00?

    Thanks.........car runs 100% perfect!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "The idea behind luxury performance sedans (and crossovers) is not to get the best of both worlds, but to try to offer MORE of each world."

    And that distinction is...???

    I do understand that there are a lot of balanced compromises. Our FWD TL 6-speed is a "sporty" family sedan, but it's not a true sports sedan as in the 335i/550i nor a true luxury sedan along the lines of a Lexus GS or LS.

    My comment - to be taken lightly, and as my opinion - was that the previous poster was over-exhuberantly describing the FX45 as if it was a sports car - 0-60 times and lateral g's of cornering force. I can try describing my golf game with the same level of enthusiasm, but it won't take too many holes before even the non-golfer realized they weren't watching Tiger Woods.

    IMO, there are a lot of gas guzzling, 4,500+ lb, 4/5 passenger "crossover" SUV's perhaps being bought for the wrong reasons. As in our neighbor who is an emergency room physician. He has twice asked us this winter if we could give him a ride to the hospital 2 miles away when his "S non-U V" (X5 4.6is) was rendered undriveable by a whopping 4-6" of snow. But boy those 20" wheels and low profile summer tires sure looked nice slipping and sliding away. His wife's car is an equally undriveable Jaguar in the winter, but at least her car doesn't make any false "utility" claims. ;)

    Funny, when I offered to let him drive our 911 this summer, as he was salivating over it, he had to embarassingly admit not knowing how to drive a manual transmssion. But hey, he's a good doctor, so I'm happy letting him think he's Michael Schumacher in that slushbox equiped two and a half ton "sports car". ;)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,324
    And that distinction is...???

    the distinction is "best" vs "more."
    Being the "best" is obviously a FAR cry over just being "better" or "more than usual."

    was that the previous poster was over-exhuberantly describing the FX45 as if it was a sports car

    Ok. Point taken. I won't defend it as a sportscar, but I would defend it as being quite sporty while offering a good deal more utility than a sportscar. There's that trade-off thing we've both mentioned.

    And ... to keep on topic ... its the same we've discussed here before when trading off some luxury for more sport, or vice versa.

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    Where did you find these numbers? I looked on the autochannel site and could not find anything.
  • kennyg8kennyg8 Posts: 225
    While the posters here prefer to brand the M35 as a "luxury performance sedan," Edmunds opts to cateorize it as one of the "top 10 vehicles for seniors." In fact, it is lumped together with Toyota Avalon and Ford Five Hundred! I've always considered the M35 as a pretty sporty sedan with a good dose of luxury, but I've never thought it would be in the category of grandpa mobiles. :cry:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I've always considered the M35 as a pretty sporty sedan with a good dose of luxury, but I've never thought it would be in the category of grandpa mobiles.

    That is really odd. The M35 is the meanest, loudest, and hardest riding of the three Japanese entries in the segment. The GS, S80, or E-class would seem like much more logical choices.
  • carfan28carfan28 Posts: 43
    Acura RL is a good luxury cruiser.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Acura RL is a good luxury cruiser.

    It is, but I think the Acura's "comes with everything" approach could hurt its chances with the Ft. Lauderdale crowd. These are probably not people who are going to be syncing their Blackberrys while listening to a DVD-Audio disc. The RL's interior would probably just confuse them. That and the "brilliant" push\twist keyless ignition system would probably lead to some dead batteries.
  • carfan28carfan28 Posts: 43
    Yep, anyone who doesn't have the strength to punch through a chad and leave it hanging may have problems with one of the more sophisticated electronic gadgetry cars out there.
  • wbreaux1wbreaux1 Posts: 55
    I replaced the spark plugs on my 2000 E320 and the cost was $500, so $288 sounds great. .
  • All,

    I've been reading Edmunds boards for awhile, but have never posted a question.

    I'll very soon be in the market for a vehicle, but my pockets aren't deep enough for either of these three vehicles new. However, an '05 320 CDI or '05 530, or '06 A6 does fall within my budget, and I'm looking for suggestions.

    About myself, professionally employed (engineer), mid 40's, who buys and holds vehicles (I expect to keep this purchase for at least 10 years, and have no interest in a lease). Wife, no kids, but want a rear seat large for the occasionally visiting aging parents and passengers.

    Driving habits. Let's see, I gave up performing the stupid stunts I do see on the roadway, but I do enjoy fine machinery. Zero to 60 in 4.0 doesn't interest me (much), but having a somewhat thrilling commute does (not all pleasure is found experiencing g-forces). Most miles are commuting in town, with the occasional highway runs.

    Any long-term owners care to chime in about what to expect during a prolonged stay with these vehicles? I'm aware that all three will be expensive to maintain in the long run, but I'm willing and able to do so as long as I enjoy the ride.

    I'm deliberately leaving out my own preferences and prejudices, as I'd like to hear what you have to say. :confuse:
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Pretty much any of these cars are a major investment after the warranty runs out. I'd be very leary about keeping any of those cars for 10 more years. Part of the problem is limited quantity, expensive parts, not inexpensive labor for someone that is more than a corner hack. Each of these cars requires a lot of training and equipment to both diagnose and repair other than some of the simple things. Personally, the days of keeping a car for a long time without significant expenses are maybe limited to the less expensive, less well endowed vehicles without all sorts of electronics and safety systems. Some of them are just too much for the corner shop to handle, and quite expensive to keep going.
  • kivikivi Posts: 12
    No way would I plan on keeping these new high tech cars for 10years or more. Perfect example of why not is my father-in-laws Mercedes S430 which is now 2 years out of warranty. It has been a great car until the out of warranty repair bills started rolling in. In the last 4 months it has cost over $10,000 to replace the auto-leveling airmatic suspension system on the car. Two weeks ago the NAV/radio/CD control system died. The part alone is almost $7,000 (Canadian).
    Our new M35x is due to arrive in two weeks, and in 4 years and 2 weeks we will be returning it to infiniti. It will be time for a new car.
  • uglybearuglybear Posts: 26
    Don't compare MB to Infiniti or Lexus. MB is at the bottom of the quality list while Ininiti and Lexus are at the top. 8 years old Lexus on average has LESS problems than NEW Mercedes. So if you are planning to keep the car for 10 years, buy Lexus.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    As others have said, the maintenance and repairs for the cars you have listed could make a 10 year hold an expensive proposition.

    That said, I'd consider an Acura RL over the Audi A6. I own a 2004 TL 6-speed and it's quicker and more fun to drive than the RL, but not as luxurious. The RL has been a very tough sell for Acura, so good deals should be available.

    I enjoy driving BMW's much more than Mercedes, but the E320CDI is a solid car, IMO. My marketing director put 80,000 miles on a E300 Turbodiesel before trading it on a E320 CDI in 2005. The new car is quicker, gets even better mileage and still drives like new at 40,000 miles.

    I'd consider an extended warranty for any of the cars you are considering. Like you, I prefer to keep my cars for a long time. Still have a 1995 Maxima w/ 155k miles stationed at our second home. But after taking my 18 month old 911S in for a malfunctioning passenger power seat, and hearing that the cost out of warranty to replace a simple switch would have been $1,000, I will either give it up at 4 years or get an extended warranty. Too many electronic gadgets in these cars that will break long before the basic mechanicals give out.
  • djkidocdjkidoc Posts: 4
    Can anyone give me their opinion on a purchase. I'm coming out of a 04 CLK 320 and had a 01 330ci with manual and sport package before that. I appreciate sporty driving and handling but I also like a luxurious ride as well...I know that it is not necessarily possible to compromise one for the other so I am torn between the 5 series and the E class.
    If you need to take the car to 100,000 miles and would like to get some blue book value at the end of 5-6 years which would you guys purchase? how about if looks and performance and comfort were taken in consideration? thanks for any advise. I plan to purchase in the next 2 months...
    Ps. If anybody could recommend a bimmer dealer or benz dealer in the NY tristate area that gave them an awesome deal I would appreciate the advice... Thanks in advance...
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The RL has been a very tough sell for Acura, so good deals should be available.

    I just noticed that there's a $3500 dealer incentive on the RL through the end of this month. That should make for some very attractive pricing.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'll very soon be in the market for a vehicle, but my pockets aren't deep enough for either of these three vehicles new. However, an '05 320 CDI or '05 530, or '06 A6 does fall within my budget, and I'm looking for suggestions.

    A certified used car is an absolute must with one of these. When the certified warranty runs out, its time to get rid of the car. You'll be much better off putting your money towards the next CPO car than taking the car to the dealer for its fifth $3K vacation of the year. CPO warranties should get you 5-6 years and somewhere around 100K miles of vehicle ownership. Beyond that, I'd say you're asking for trouble.

    The RL hasn't done amazingly well in quality surveys, and as its only two years old, nobody can really say yet how a 10 year old one will hold up. Even the GS doesn't have a great record. There's no guarantee that any of the Japanese models will outlast the Germans. I'd do the exact same thing with an Infiniti as I would an Audi in your shoes, buy CPO, get rid of it when the warranty is gone.
  • kivikivi Posts: 12
    Prior to test driving and comparing I was pretty sure we were getting the 535xi. The E-class was ruled out almost immediately after exploring it, because it just felt too much like an old folks car in styling, and certainly did not have a sporty feel to me.
    Initially I did not even entertain the Infiniti m35x, but after driving all the competitors, and finally trying the M35x ... we ended up ordering the m35x. I would encourage you to try the Lexus GS350awd, or the M35x. You may find yourself pulled in an unexpected direction. (The lexus did not have enough head room for me 6'2", but otherwise was a very nice car).
    If it is only a choice between 5 series or the E. I would choose the 5 series in a flash. No hesitation at all.
  • uglybearuglybear Posts: 26
    Get BMW but skip sport package. This way you'll get BMW handling but cushier ride. Sport package comes with stiffer suspension. If you like larger wheels, you can buy them later, separately, without having to take sport suspension along with them. And remember, BMW sits higher than MB in the quality / reliability list. BMW is not the best, but I will take 'average' reliability over 'much worse than average' any time. See JD Power and Consumer Reports.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    If you skip the sport package, you might as well skip the BMW altogether. A non-sport BMW is not one bit better than every other car in the segment when it comes to handling. It's pretty bad, actually. I've driven a non-sport 530i and was amazed at how terrible the handling was compared to what I was expecting of "The Ultimate Driving Machine."
  • uglybearuglybear Posts: 26
    I did feel difference between 530xi and 530i, but not that much to say it is no longer BMW. 530xi sport package does not include active stabilization or stiffer coil springs. Still, it handled much better than Lexus or Acura RL. I never drove M35x, so I don't know about Infiniti. If one is to buy the car and keep for a long time, it is alwaysis possible to put aftermarket coils like Hamann later and/or put on bigger rims with lower profile tires.
  • djkidocdjkidoc Posts: 4
    oh, i'm definitely considering the E 350 4matic with the sport package. does it make it a better competitor with the 5 series if that is the case? btw. thanks for the replies..
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Tough call there. I've also driven the E-class with and without the "Sport Package." (I've driven everything in the segment.) Not much difference in the E-class with or without Sport Package; both are fairly pedestrian. The difference between a 5-series with and without Sport Package is quite large. It doesn't even feel like the same car. The difference between the Infinity M with and without Sport Package is only noticeable at the extreme limit. If all you do is occasional higher than average cornering, the difference between the two is imperceptible. If you drive like a madman around turns (me), then the non-Sport Package will let you know you don't have the Sport Package with lots of protest from the tires and straying across the line.

    But back to the BMW. Without the sport package, I'd say it's on par with the Lexus GS and Acura RL. No, even with SH-AWD, to me, the RL is merely adequate. I wouldn't call it sporting. Many owners have, though. Just a difference of driving styles and what's acceptable to the individual.
  • aflcaflc Posts: 8
    In terms of reliability, Audi has moved up quite a bit, #12 overall, better than any of the other German brands. This upward trend may be a predictor of future build quality.

    If you want a stable ride with both comfort and sportiness, I think Audi offers both, packaged together, to a greater extent than the other two brands.

    If you were to get the Air Suspension you would be able the better adjust the ride comfort to suit your needs. Dynamic mode for the times you're in the mood for some fun. Comfort mode for those bumpy roads.

    Also, you have the option of standard Drive mode, for regular driving, vs Sport mode, which allows for quicker down shifts and slower up shifts. And don't forget the Sports Seats, added comfort along with better support.

    But, I've notice that most of the Audis out there come with Standard Suspension. Which really does a disservice to the Audi brand. Do try to find one with Sport or Air suspension. To quote tayl0rd :
    If you skip the sport package, you might as well skip the BMW altogether
    I would somewhat agree for the Audi as well, w/ and w/o Sport Package is like driving two different cars. Although one does have the added benefits of having Quattro in the Audi.

    I think for your needs, you will be very pleased with the A6. Not too hard, not too soft... just right.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    A non-sport BMW is not one bit better than every other car in the segment when it comes to handling. It's pretty bad, actually.

    But back to the BMW. Without the sport package, I'd say it's on par with the Lexus GS and Acura RL.

    Blasphemy. What you're saying is akin to a pro golfer telling a 5-handicap golfer that he's the same as a 20-handicap. It's inaccurate. You just have no tolerance for anything less than a BMW sport suspension.
  • "Blasphemy. What you're saying is akin to a pro golfer telling a 5-handicap golfer that he's the same as a 20-handicap. It's inaccurate."

    Good analogy and correct statement.

    I drive a 2003 M5, so I could claim that any non-"M" BMW isn't worth it. And that would be equally absurd.

    The non-sport 5-series is second only to the 5-series sport models in handling, steering and driving dynamics in this segment. Nothing by Audi, Mercedes, Acura, Infiniti or Lexus is going to handle as precisely. I could disparage each and every one of those nameplates with criticisms such as "Audi's are obese pigs", but that's just being obnoxious. All of these cars have some quality attributes. But none have the driving dynamics of the BMW 5-series, IMO. Take plenty of test drives for yourself.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    kivi,

    Did you drive a 535Xi? Or is that what you were considering based on driving a 530i/530Xi? Reason I ask is I didn't think the 535's were out yet, although you can apparently order them.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    5-Series 4,315
    E-Class 4,019
    A6 1,038
    RL 719
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    No, even with SH-AWD, to me, the RL is merely adequate. I wouldn't call it sporting. Many owners have, though. Just a difference of driving styles and what's acceptable to the individual.

    The RL isn't a sports sedan. There was a test (I think it may have been on Fifth Gear with the Honda Legend badge) where it was on a race track, and it was all body roll and tire-squealing understeer. The "super-handling" bit just keeps it from having atrocious understeer. Audi is able to disguise the A6's FWD nature, but Acura hasn't really learned that trick.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,029
    March deliveries:
    STS 1,555 = off 32.4% from March 2006....
    2016 BMW 340i
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Infiniti M 2,768
    Lexus GS 2,103
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Infiniti M 2,768
    Lexus GS 2,103


    Interesting, that may be the M's best month yet.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Control your enthusiasm.

    M sales are up merely 1.5 percent for March and down year to date by about 6 percent compared to 06 figures.

    What is interesting is that every single car in the LSP segment is faced with declining or at best stagnant sales.

    Are buyers flocking to smaller sibling models like the BMW 3 and Infinti M. Apparently that seems to be the case.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    "Are buyers flocking to smaller sibling models like the BMW 3 and Infinti M. Apparently that seems to be the case."

    In the case of the BMW 3 vs. 5, there is the small matter of the fact that the 3er got the new engines months before the 5. My guess is that once the 528i and 535i hit the streets, sales will pick up.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    M sales are up merely 1.5 percent for March and down year to date by about 6 percent compared to 06 figures.

    Perhaps, but 2700 is still a very good month for Infiniti. Its usually neck and neck with the GS, but they hammered Lexus this month. That "not that reliable for a Lexus" report from CR certainly can't be helping the Lexus, especially when the M is CR's all-star luxury car.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Interstingly the BMW 5 series still remains the leader of the pack in the LPS class despite an 18 percent March sales drop. Which is surprising considering that the MB E Class model has been recently refreshed. I am sure the 5 series is going to get a nice boost from 528/535 sales.

    BMW M5 sales dropped 66 percent to hit a grand total of 128 cars for March. Wonder if there is a supply issue and God-forbid if it is a demand issue. I mean the new Audi RS6 isn't even selling yet.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Similarily to the updated MB E Class I would have thought that the new and improved Lexus GS350 would have higher sales. But that is not the case for both these models. I am sure CR's verdict has more weight on the sales of Lexuses than on the sales of the German marques. Despite MB being the lowest of the low in terms of CR's ratings their total sales have increased .

    The charts provided by Toyota linked below appear to have an error. On the March 07 sales list there are no Lexus GS350s? I guess the GS300 figures represents the GS350 figures?

    Lexus Sales
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    BMW M5 sales dropped 66 percent to hit a grand total of 128 cars for March.

    I'm not sure you can make much of a singel month comparison for a limited production car like the M5. I was in a large BMW dealer last week, and when I asked if they had any unsold 6-speed M5's, they indicated their was still a 6+ month wait.

    That said, I do not think the current M5 is as revered as the previous model, notwithstanding it's great V10 engine. The interior layout of the current 5 series and the i-drive gymnasitics you have to go through to tap into all 500 horsepower would be a turnoff to me. I believe that BMW needs to re-think making the 3 series and 5-series into more driver oriented cars from an interior design and functionality standpoint.

    And they really need to re-draw the 6-series. It is butt-ugly, literally and figuratively. Someone parked a Toyota Solara next to a 650i in front of the dealership and the two looked way too similar from the rear.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    Your prefs and biases will surely virtually dictate what you do regardless of what we say.

    The fact that you are going for a used car will also limit the population of cars you can acquire, too.

    You didn't mention any "need" (different than a preference) for AWD.

    Knowing what I know, reading (too much) of what I read and seeing all the bytes we post here on edmunds and elsewhere, I would say "none of the above."

    I would also say, if you think 10 years and continue to think your posted choice, you CAN afford a new car.

    Right now, the Acura dealers (those with inventory) are on a tear with the new MDX, RDX -- the RL's are gathering dust.

    The RL is, considering content and performance, moving up the value scale every day.

    A new RL stands a better chance of being the best choice (thinking of money) for the 10 year journey than any of these used Germans.

    The BMW may be eligible for an extended BMW brand warranty (beyond mere CPO'ing which you would have to do with any of these.)

    The Audi, and I have one, seems, to me, at 34,000+ miles to be as tight and "new" as it did the day I leased it.

    My lease runs out in 14,000 miles (I bought 3,000 extra to get me through to the end "just in case" I don't bail out a few months early.)

    My current A6 (2005 3.2) is the first car in a long time, I would actually consider keeping a year or so longer.

    But, these Germans are "breathtakingly expensive" to keep out of warranty. And after the service pack runs out, heck even an oil change is a $100 affair.

    The MB CDI has something going for it in that the engine OUGHT to go the distance. Small comfort if everything else around it becomes a vacuum for money.

    You can afford a new RL -- they're giving them away.

    $11 down, $11 a month and if you don't have the $11, we'll loan it to you. Come one, come all to Kash's Big Bargain Barn Acura dealer, just a mental block and a bridge from downtown Cincinnapolis.

    :shades:
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,029
    "You can afford a new RL -- they're giving them away.

    $11 down, $11 a month and if you don't have the $11, we'll loan it to you. Come one, come all to Kash's Big Bargain Barn Acura dealer, just a mental block and a bridge from downtown Cincinnapolis. "

    You crack me up.
    So - when you 'retire', you'll be sellin' cars - right?
    - Ray
    Willing to drive most any distance just to see THAT . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • kivikivi Posts: 12
    Yea sorry I noticed that a while after my message had posted. We tested the 530xi, but after hearing that the 535xi was soon on the way, I would have been very interested to compare it to the 530xi. Guess I just had 535 excitement on the brain when I typed that post. In reality however we still would have ended up getting the M35x because for us (Canadian) the cost of the similarly equipped 530xi was about $82k vs $67K for the M35x.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    and when I asked if they had any unsold 6-speed M5's, they indicated their was still a 6+ month wait

    If that is the case then the low M5 sales is a due to some supply issue(too low production levels).

    I believe that BMW needs to re-think making the 3 series and 5-series into more driver oriented cars from an interior design and functionality standpoint.

    I agree. The best car that will fit your above description could be a 1 series M Class. Due to BMW history I guarantee such a beast will not be called an M1.

    I dont know how the idrive is in the M5 but I do know how it is in my wife's BMW 530xi Touring. It's not bad at all once you get used to it. Also the dashboard is not so cluttered with buttons.

    Having said that I love the simplicity of my non-idrive BMW335i sedan much better. The only options I chose for my car is a sport package and metallic paint. Any other option for me is a frivolous waste of money.

    By the way do you have any idea if the new M3 will have idrive as standard?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    But, these Germans are "breathtakingly expensive" to keep out of warranty.

    Maybe? Have you actually owned an Audi out of warranty?

    In my particular case for the last quarter of a century I've owned many German cars out of warranty and so far my wallet remains intact. If my experiences were otherwise then I would not have bought two new German cars last year.(I am a frugal fellow by nature who hates spending a lot of money on repairs)

    Maybe my positive experiences has something to do with having a great independent auto mechanic that specializes in BMWs? I avoid the dealerships like a financial plague.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Mine was (98 A6), and I replaced it with an Infiniti. Too soon to tell if it was a good choice! I realize the new ones are better, plus a different chassis. But, I didn't fit, either.
  • All,

    Thanks for your input. It appears that this topic is starting to drift a bit off topic, so I'll now inject my opinions (and the best part of opinions is that they're ALWAYS right).

    The Acura RL (and TL), in my opinion is a fine car, but really does nothing for me in regards to exterior design, and the interior design is all about the distractions, as are most of the japanese brands (huge screens, too many buttons). This could explain the RLs lagging sales.

    The german sedans, with I-Drive, MMI, and COMAND, are guilty of their own crimes. But they drive so well, it *could* be possible to forgive them...if only they weren't so expensive to repair, if you can find a good tech.

    For me, maybe it's time to shop American. The '08 CTS looks promising, and if the current ride (9 years, 120K) holds on until then I'll give it a spin.

    Thanks again for your input. Great Forum!
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