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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • ocimocim Member Posts: 45
    I can see why some would prefer the G's interior styling over the M's. I think it is a little more sporty. However, from the quality and texture of the materials, the G isn't even close to the M.
  • willie2lwillie2l Member Posts: 14
    Hi, Told my dealer about the lease terms you mentioned. They said they do not know anything about an owner loyalty program for the A6. Do you have a link or source? They also told me MF was .00042. They must be looking to close the deal because last Monday the MF was quoted at .0014. However, while MF is down they say residual is 49%, down for 50%. (A6 3.2Q 36mo/12k) I don't think I believe that. Tough keeping up with these guys.
  • zgreatlifezgreatlife Member Posts: 6
    Interesting post, LexusG. I also own an older A6 (3.0, 2002), and just returned from testing the new one. Did not like it much. I felt that the new A6 was too noisy, and provided less visibility than my older Audi. I still loved the interior and technology in the Audi, but did not enjoy actually driving it as much as driving the old one. Unlike many people here, I like a quiet and soft ride. Not too interested at "feeling the road". I just tested the Lexus ES 350 and enjoyed it. Feels like lots of car for the money. Following other discussions here, I would want to try the Infinity and see how that feels.
  • uglybearuglybear Member Posts: 26
    Late April/early May my dealership says. They are taking orders, but they don't have pricing yet.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Unlike many people here, I like a quiet and soft ride. Not too interested at "feeling the road". I just tested the Lexus ES 350 and enjoyed it. Feels like lots of car for the money.

    In terms of creamy isolation from the outside world, the ES does it better than any other car under $65K. If by Infiniti you mean the G or M, I wouldn't bother. They are about as far on the other end of the spectrum as you can get from the ES; raw, mean sports sedans. My suggestions for other cars to consider would be the GS350 AWD, and Volvo S80 3.2. The Toyota Avalon also has most of what the above cars have, for a lot less money. The Passat is also worth trying.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343

    I had the following (not a complete list):

    1995 S6
    1997 A8
    1999 A6 2.8
    2000 A6 4.2 comfort
    2001 A6 4.2 sport
    2003 allroad 2.7T
    2005 A6 3.2 with 18" wheels and 245 x 40 x 18" tires

    At the same time, my wife had multiple A4's, three TT's and one BMW X3 3.0.

    The A6 is the quietest of the bunch (including the A8), it also is both more compliant and able to corner better than the 2001 sport version of my A6, which I assumed is due to the its greater, by far, chassis stiffness.

    I tested, thoroughly, the Infiniti M35X and the Cadillac STS and have rented, repeatedly, competing lux and/or sport lux cars from Europe and the US. I rented, too, a Lexus and participated in a test with Car and Driver that included the new Lexus cars.

    Lexus cars are the most quiet. Audis and Cadillacs are second and the Infiniti is third. The BMW's I have tested and or have in my garage at this moment are hardly loud, but they are the loudest of the bunch -- due perhaps to the choice of tires they come with.

    Perhaps you drove a new C6 Audi with 19" wheels and tires and the S-Line package. This version can be noisier and I assume it is entirely a function of the wheels and ultra low profile tires (with extra stiff sidewalls.)

    The ride of the Audi IS firm, but it is also shudder free and able to telegraph the road to the driver.

    The Lexus seems to me to be as comfortable and quiet as the Cadillac DTS, and able to handle better -- but the Cadillac on a smooth road at 80MPH remains like riding on your living room Barcolounger -- and even the Lexus doesn't do that.

    Thank god.

    I urge you to test Audi A6 again -- unless for other reasons you have totally ruled it out -- and other than this suggestion: ask them to make sure the tires are properly inflated -- well, it should be quite smooth,compliant and quiet. Moreover, it should handle very well, certainly better than the Lexus and Cadillac models it competes with.

    Wow. :surprise:
  • willie2lwillie2l Member Posts: 14
    > I urge you to test Audi A6 again -- unless for other reasons you have totally ruled it out -- and other than this suggestion: ask them to make sure the tires are properly inflated -- well, it should be quite smooth,compliant and quiet. Moreover, it should handle very well, certainly better than the Lexus and Cadillac models it competes with. <

    Great point. First time I test drove the 07 A6 I thought it would knock my teeth out. Asked the dealer when I got back if the car really was that stiff. He apologized and said the cars come off the truck with 50psi and he had forgotten to adjust. Since then, I always ask if the inflation has been usually has not or they are left at 45psi so the tires don't get "flat spots" sitting on the lot.

    I'm still hoping that Audi comes out with a lease program for the A6 so that it is not more costly then the 530xi. If they wait much longer, I will have to wait for the 535x.
  • allagarooallagaroo Member Posts: 88
    Tell your dealer to read his bulletins. It was sent out last Monday and expires 3/5/07. It was shown to me by the NJ dealer and the New York dealer was aware of it. The MF is .00027 and the res. did go down to 49% for 12,000 miles however if you take the Audi care for $550 the res. is increased by 1% to 50%. I gave NY dealer a deposit for a blk/blk. There isn't enough time to order to receive before my current Audi lease expires. Premium, convenience, technology, heated steering wheel, 18" wheels and Audi Care.

    Good Luck,
  • zgreatlifezgreatlife Member Posts: 6
    Thanks, LexusG...I will check out the Volvo. I'm sure Avalon is similar to the Lexus, but I prefer the extra conveniences offered by the Lex.

    Didn't realize that the Infinity's ride was harsher..may still worth looking it. Bottom line, these are all good, capable cars, and it all comes down to subjective preferences.
  • zgreatlifezgreatlife Member Posts: 6
    Wow, you're obviously a loyal Audi driver....I can understand that my "heresy" affects you. But, in my case, I'm more loyal to my buns, than my brand....
  • allagarooallagaroo Member Posts: 88
    You confirm that I made the right decision Friday by putting a deposit down on '07 A6 3.2. I had already made a decision to lease the M35X and was a day away from ordering it when I heard about the owner loyalty. I just happened to drive a friend out to NJ to pick up his A8 and his dealer told me or I'd be waiting for my M now. I'm excited about it but wish Audi had more power and M nav system. Everything is a compromise!
    BTW ordered the 18" wheels with all seasons. Are they UHP?
    I enjoy your posts and find them most informative.
    Keep it up!
  • willie2lwillie2l Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for the information. If my local guy can't read, I'll try a different dealer. Good luck and enjoy your new Audi.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The tires are Grand Touring HP.

    You will be underwhelmed by them.

    I replaced mine with UHP Pirelli PZero Nero M+S and inflated the front to 39 the rear to 36.

    Nice upgrade.
  • acuratacurat SoCalMember Posts: 81
    Before you cut a fat check for a Lexus, I'd recommend you try the Acura RL. Smooth and serene yet not floaty, with a seriously powerful V6. Super-handling all wheel drive is incredibly secure; this car goes where you point it. Real-time NavTraffic is a huge advantage in any major metro area. The interior is beautiful and well-designed, the cabin is quiet, the sound system rocks. Acura has done an incredible integration of the technology. Best of all, you won't see yourself coming and going.

    If you are focused on bang for the buck, no one can touch this car. There are no options. None. Every feature is standard--an exemplar for the nickel-and-diming competition. (Are you listening, Toyota and BMW?)

    Check out the review at for more.
  • zgreatlifezgreatlife Member Posts: 6
    Thanks, I will look at the Acura. My wife used to have a TL and loved it. So far I feel that the Volvo S80 has the closest feel to my Audi A6. Actually, I was impressed with the Volvo feel. Feels much "tighter" than older models used to.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If you are focused on bang for the buck, no one can touch this car. There are no options. None.

    Well, except for the Technology package. Thats an option. And it would be nice if there were some options, say a seat upgrade, for example. An '05 or '06 for $32-35K is a pretty good deal. As a new car... eh. I'd rather have the GS.
  • allagarooallagaroo Member Posts: 88
    I don't understand why mediocre OEM tires like the Goodyear RS=4's or the Michelin MXM4's are so expensive. I was looking to replace the RS-4's that come with the M with Bridgestone Potenza 960's which seen to be rated #1 in everything according to Tire Rack for less money than the others. I wonder if tire dealers will swap when the tires are brand new?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I don't understand why mediocre OEM tires like the Goodyear RS=4's or the Michelin MXM4's are so expensive.

    Very good question. The MXM4s aren't really any cheaper than either the Pilot Exalto or Pilot Sport M+S, which are both way better tires.
  • tamparltamparl Member Posts: 42
    I generally am a fan of Michelins. I have done very well with wear and durability of them. In some applications, I have found them louder on some road surfaces, as with my 06 RL. I have considered replacing them (stock rims), but there are so few options unless I change the rims (which I do not expect to do). I think the MXM4s are OK, but I suspect there is a quieter tire out there, if I can find them in the RLs stock size. My TL has the MXM4s also, but they lower profile, and still better than the BS EL42 Turanzas I have experienced on some loaner TLs. Yet I find the RL quieter than most of the competitors I drove (subject to my local road conditions...crap). And still the RL felt responsive more than some of the cushier rides. For me it was the right balance.

    I think if you can get an new RL under 45K it is an amazing vehicle. Head north of 45K and I think there are serious alternatives which appeal to us each differently. We all have attributes that appeal to us in different combinations...price, ride, performace, engine, drivetrain, features, reputation, etc, etc. It can be tiresome, especially with the availability of information and opinions we have today. It can be helpful, but it can also be distracting us from what pleases us personally. Listen to opinions in your decision process, but decide based on what appeals to YOU.

    I enjoy the process, and cannot get near shiny metal things without drooling. A whiff of the new car smell and my knees buckle. BUT, always it comes down to MY dollar and deciding upon what MY dollar can get for what appeals to ME.

    Somewhere I saw a thread about what people name their cars... I simply replied "MINE"! :P

    I respect all the rides mentioned throughout this thread. i respect what each has proclaimed as best (for them), but each time I look at, drive one or campare to what I got in my RL, I know I made the right choice. :)
  • willie2lwillie2l Member Posts: 14
    Thanks J--

    My dealer "found" the bulletin for the A6 owner loyalty program and said the .00027 MF would be no problem. So, applied the $2500 OL as cap reduction, added Audi Care to up the residual,(which was new information to my salesman) ...paid the tax and first month and I get my new A6 tomorrow. Oh, and they "tossed in" winter mats.

    It probably would not have happened without your posting the program information. Again, my thanks for sharing the information. I hope I can return, or pass on the favor in the future.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    All of the Audis my wife and I have had since that first 1978 Audi 5000 in 1977 have been purchased from the same dealer. Most of them, by far, from the same salesman (who is not in management at the dealership.)

    The dealership, owned by ONE GUY, was sold to a billion dollar company several years ago. The dealership built a new 7 million dollar dealership. They sell about 600 new Audis per year -- but they are growing, apparently, with their new location and super high glitz facility.

    Good for them, good for the customers -- or so I thought.

    For the first 25 or 26 Audis we always dealt directly with the owner, who was always there.

    Came to the current two car purchases we made in March and June of 2005 and boy oh boy things sure had changed.

    I ended up kissing Audi good-bye and placed an order for an Infiniti M35X. My wife after 3 TT's in a row and a desire to buy a new A4 3.2, also gave up and ordered a new $47K BMW X3 that was "hundreds" cheaper per month on a lease for 36 month than a $44K A4.

    The Infiniti deal for me was nearly $200 less per month than the "similar" A6 3.2.

    I so wanted the Audi, but, as I have said, these cars are more alike than they are different and the mo pay and "styling" are key differentiators. I guess if I thought the Infiniti was butt ugly or something like that I couldn't have made the decision I initially made.

    What the heck, I had purchased so many cars from ONE GUY, I wrote him a "thanks for the memories" letter, cc'd the sales manager (no longer the owner, who is never there, apparently) and also cc'd the Vice president of Audi of America.

    Note: when you order an Infiniti it takes about 120 days -- orders are only placed one time per month (in 2005 at least) and the lead time is a minimum of 90+ days after that.

    I sent the letters I mentioned.

    I figured I would be happy with the Infiniti, I had driven the car several times and found it to be quite close to the feel I had enjoyed from Audi and had felt when I tested BMW's. About 75 days passed and then, one day, I received a phone call from the sales rep, who said, "come home Shane, come home."

    The net of it was there were "loyalty deals, special cents off coupons and lower money factors and even the cancelling of a couple of months of a lease on my not yet at term 2003 allroad, the negating of a sec dep and free bottled water and car washes for life."

    All I had to do was "unhook" the M35X deal -- the Infiniti dealers had $1500 of my money.

    A phone call to the Infiniti dealer was soooo easy. He was looking for inbound inventory. My car, apparently on a boat, was able to be sold either to me or to someone else despite my somewhat unorthodox color scheme, silver with bourbon leather and journey and technology package with ground effects and a wing on the butt.

    My wife said the deal Audi coughed up was a ONCE in a lifetime deal for they literally dropped the price on a 36 mo lease $200 per month and let me out of my lease on the allroad without penalty.

    I hope she is wrong.

    I also somewhat hate the fact that I had to say good-bye to get the deal. Of course, as they say, "if you are willing to walk and they know it, you will get the best deal du jour."

    After years of dealing directly with the owner, I had come to enjoy a no negotiation approach and a sense that I always got the best deal in exchange for my repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat patronage.

    Hey, now I'm dealing with a billion dollar dealership group. I met the owner once, I am confident he knows me not and in fact he's never there, so it's really a moot point anyway.

    Today, I am mostly convinced these cars ARE NOT unique (within their class). The Lexus is at one, Infiniti and perhaps Cadillac are in the middle and the Germans are at the other end of a continuum of plush/poshness and sportiness. They are all great apples, so to speak, but they are different kind of apples -- but apples nevertheless.

    Some like red deeeeelish, some granny smith and some gala.

    The car companies must know this too, for there certainly can be a great deal of movement with respect to the "rental" agreements offered by the various financing arms. Audi Financial, apparently, made this happen as did BMW financial for my wife with her new Bimmer.

    Fear not -- and also don't assume the dealer knows everything or is somehow attempting to be a crook. While they certainly might be, it is more likely that these multi multi million dollar (or billion dollar, in my case) auto dealerships you are dealing with are being run by professional "managers."

    Rarely, at least in these parts, will you deal with someone in an equity position. The guy who didn't know about the "deal" quite possibly didn't know about the deal -- why? It really makes little difference to him/her.

    My long term sales rep says he makes about the same amount on an A3 as he does on an A8 -- his motivation therefore is, well -- you figure it out. :surprise:
  • allagarooallagaroo Member Posts: 88

    I'm delighted that I was of help to you. The very best of luck with the new car. Please advise how you like it.
    With all the luxury AWD cars available this was the toughest auto decision I ever had. Initially, I was sure I'd get my 3rd Audi until I heard the monthly price. Then I was convinced I'd get the M35X until I drove the GS350 which is fast but numb. Was finally about to lease the M on Friday when I heard about the owner loyalty on Thursday. Everything is timing! My current lease doesn't end until March so I'll be counting the days until I get mine although I love my 2.7T and am not in a hurry to say goodbye yet. Enjoy the new car! :)
  • audi_ownera6audi_ownera6 Member Posts: 3

    I recently bought a 2006 A6. Everything about this car is just the way I would have imagined except the brakes. When applying the parking brakes I can hear a distinct hum from the rear end of the car. I have driven a couple of loaners and they dint sound anything when applying the parking brake. The service agent says this is normal for the A6's. Secondly when I apply brakes, the car smoothly decelerates and then stops abruptly(I want to say with a jerk). Again the dealer says this is what happens with the brake assist feature when it chips in to anticipate any corrective braking that might be required.

    Am I being paranoid or is the Audi dealer just giving me some stock answers to problems they cant fix?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    I would assume on 08' CTS content alone the next CTS-V would be a true LPS wouldn't it ????? It should be right at the top in performance because the next "V" or as some call it Super-V is getting the new supercharged Corvette SS engine with 600 horses. 0-60 in a "blink of a eye" :blush:

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "It's normal for them to do that" is the easiest "shut up and go away" answer for a dealer to give about pretty much any problem. The "it's the brake assist" answer is particularly troubling because that's just a flat out lie. Brake assist is only supposed to activate in panic situations if the driver hasn't hit the pedal hard enough for maximum braking. All of my cars have had BA for the last several years, and none of them act like that. Take it to another dealer.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    No, the next CTS-V will not be a LPS. Neither will the M3, RS4, C63, IS-F, or S60R. It doesn't matter how big the engine gets or how fast it goes. The Ariel Atom will outrun pretty much any car including a 600hp CTS to 60. That doesn't make it a LPS. Cadillac's LPS continues to be the STS.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Remember that the parking brake of the new A6 is an electronic unit. Not many other manufacturers use that type of brake. The hum you're hearing is the motor activating the brake.

    With the "jerky" braking, it's probably either the Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD) or the transmission downshifting into first gear. It's probably the downshift. I believe I've read from other A6 owners that their cars sometimes jerk when downshifting. Pay attention to the brake pedal the next time you're coming to a stop. If you feel a slight pulse up on the pedal, it's the EBD kicking in. What that does is send a little more braking force to the rear brakes. It only kicks in for panic stops and below a certain speed. For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes. This is why the front brake systems are larger than the rear and also why the front brakes have more brake dust and wear out sooner than the rears.
  • upuautupuaut Member Posts: 14
    For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes.

    Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The HUM you hear is, IME, normal. It is an electronic motor activating the parking brake. I hear it, it is faint and it lets me know the brake is applied.

    The other jerking you feel is NOT normal and is no way associated with Brake Assist.

    The answer is lazy.

    The culprit COULD be the transmission especially if you are in S mode which forces a HARD shift to first gear.

    There are adjustments and parts that can be made and replaced if this is a true out of spec condition, which I think it sounds like.

    Don't take the lazy answer.

    My brakes are great.
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    Given the weight transfer, I can't understand why most of the braking wouldn't be done by the front wheels in all cars (except maybe a huge SUV with gold bullion in the wayback). However, my experience with a 2002 Passat is that the rear brakes wear out at about twice the rate of the front. It's a mystery.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,097
    For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes.

    Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?

    It could have to do with "anti-dive" suspension geometry. My car has it, and BMW's may also. If the rear of the car doesn't lift & transfer a huge proportion of the downward force (weight) of the car to the front wheels during braking, the rears take a more nearly equal fraction. When I hit my brakes really hard, the car just squats down, applying plenty of weight to the rear.

    Look around -- many cars that have ventilated front discs (most/all in this board) may or may not have ventilated rears. Cars with a sufficiently sophisticated suspension will have 4 ventilated discs. For all I know, all these do, but I doubt it. The Germans almost certainly do, given that they're designed to run at 100 mph or so continuously. The Asians will be efficient -- if they don't need ventilated rears, they won't fit them.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    What category does it fit in ???

  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    I'm a bit late to the game, but such is my life. :)

    Having driven the servotronic on a VW/Audi vehicle and Active Steering from BMW, I can say I prefer the Active Steering.

    The VW/Audi setup is very nice, but in MY case, I just don't feel the road very well. It responds immediately and has a good feel/connection to the wheels at all speeds and it IS effortless, but transmitting the feel back to the driver just isn't there FOR ME.

    The Active Steering lets the road feel through to me. Maybe it is the tire choice, but the A/S feels right. The ratio change has never been an issue and it responds just as fast or faster than the Servo in the VW/Audis.

    I'm wondering if VW/Audi's audience is more for L and S vs the P. I wouldn't go so far to say it has a Lexus like ride to it, but it is defintely more 'posh' than the A/S equipped BMW's. The BMW's seem to focus on the P and S vs the L.

    I'd take either one in a heartbeat as they are better (again, TO ME) than a large percentage of the cars out there today.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,152
    BMW also has Servotronic steering... completely separate from the Active Steering (which may incorporate Servo, I don't know).

    It is a $250 option on the X3...

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  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Understood. I'm referring to specifically the Active Steering though.

    I really like the feel on the A/S setup, at any speed.

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Entry lux\performance, just like the last one.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?

    They aren't exempt. Cdnpinhead said it correctly. Ever notice how BMWs just squat when the brakes are applied whereas almost all other cars want to plant their noses in the asphalt? BMWs have 50/50 or near 50/50 weight distribution along with the anti-dive suspension setup that allows them to use equal brake proportioning front to rear. Most other cars whether they be FWD, AWD, or RWD have most of their weight on the nose which makes the nosedive even more pronounced which requires more braking force in the front since that's where most of the traction has been shifted during braking.

    I assure you, the laws of physics are in full effect on BMWs as well. They just do a better job of working with them and not against them.
  • aflcaflc Member Posts: 8
    So, yesterday I decided to send a letter to Audi about their marketing tactics. (We all know they lack any structured marketing department at all.)

    And what do I see as soon as I send it out. Their mea culpa... and a new plan to get the word out, finally...
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,097
    Just as I suspected.

    My Lincoln LS gets less than zero respect from the masses, but the suspension was very well thought out. Selling (or leasing) the damn thing to the blue-haired masses turned out to be a losing proposition, particularly when Ford was in the process of self-destruction (helped along by the Exploder tires).

    Thanks for verifying what I thought was true. This sort of thing costs money, which is part of why BMW is generally more expensive than Infiniti (& others). Whether anyone appreciates it, or is willing to pay for it is an entirely different question.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    Hey mark,

    Allroad is gone a few months now and Im about to take delivery in a few weeks down in Spartenburg a 530i I ordered with MT, comfort seats, premium, etc. Monaco blue with Auburn interior!

    MSRP is 55k and with nothing but first payment and some BS fees my 36mo with 15k miles is only $630 per mo. with Taxes.

    I never even test drove it. Ok, I drove a friends a few months back. My Audi dealer changed owners and have really become a joke. I never even gave them a chance as they never even made any effort to keep me. No incentives, no invitations, no call from dealer, no effort at all. They treated me not like an existing customer. I really did not care as the one prerequisite must be made for me. That is I don't want to feel stupid. And paying over $100 more per month for an Audi that Stickers for 7 grand less with putting $2500 down really does not make me feel any better about the deal. The other thing is I gotta like the car.

    The Audi A6 is a great car and very special. As is the 530i BMW. The lack of MT was huge, but I could have overcome this with the right deal.

    I had a great Audi experience and hope to get back into one some day. The Q7 deal was tempting but its just not the right vehicle for me. The X3 was very tempting as well and a hell of a deal. I really would like to put my wife in one in a few years when our Minivan days are over.

    Mark, I have enjoyed your posts over the years and Im sure I'll come across you some other time.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    At the time I did the Infiniti, then the Audi, there was no 530xi on the market. But as part of my due diligence, I, too had priced a BMW both "at parity" with respect to options and at the same price point as the Audi.

    Here is what I found:

    At MSRP, the BMW was more expensive by many thousands of dollars when the BMW was optioned as close as possible to Audi's A6 with virtually every option.

    The lease payment, however, was somewhat less than the Audi.

    At MSRP parity, the BMW was about $200 per month less than the Audi (again NOT for a car that I wanted, since I did want the AWD version that had the 255HP engine but was not for sale when I pulled the trigger for the Audi, after unhooking the Infiniti.)

    The point is, Audi AT THAT MOMENT, did come down in lease price to the point that it was just under the Infiniti M35X's price on a similar deal on a similarly equipped car.

    My wife had, at that time, been into her new BMW just a couple of months and the dealer service at our local BMW store was outstanding. I didn't want, THEN, a 330xi -- now, hmmm a 335xi could turn my head -- but we'll see.

    The Spartenburg experience (where we took our two day driving school in Sept '06) is delightful, educational and in our case just plain fun.

    Now that BMW has caught up (in many ways) to Audi -- in the areas that are important to me -- once again, I will shop when my time is near.

    I plan also to look at what Cadillac has to offer -- say it ain't so! :surprise:
  • fonefixerfonefixer Member Posts: 247
    Maybe someone needs to send Audi Corporate a letter about the reliability tactics of their vehicles as well. I have owned Audis for 8 service intensive years and as Mark has written in these forums many, many times ; never leave your garage without a bumper to bumper warranty. He is exactly right.They are okay to lease, terrible to own. Who knows, maybe the whole LPS market is going this way. Does anyone actually purchase an LPS vehicle these days?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,152
    PCD delivery? Sounds like fun!!

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  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I plan also to look at what Cadillac has to offer -- say it ain't so!

    AWD will be available on the 300hp version of the CTS. As for the V version, probably not.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Does anyone actually purchase an LPS vehicle these days?

    A Lexus GS is safe to buy I'm sure. Lexus makes no real effort to get you to lease, so I don't see why buying would be a problem, especially since Lexus cars tend to not change very much during their life cycles. The Infiniti M is probably a safe bet as well. The Acura RL on the other hand hasn't done any better than the A6 or 5 series in terms of reliability.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    As far as reliability goes, does Audi have reliability problems in Europe too?

    Audi puts their MMI controller right next to the cup holders. You may say, so? Spill a $1.00 coke on the center console and see what happens to MMI over time. From the modules I have seen, it doesn't take much moisture/syrup/junk to get in there to foul things up. Perhaps finding ways to modify or seal their electronics from the elements, including user-induced soakings, would alleviate problems.

  • fonefixerfonefixer Member Posts: 247
    Do you think the auto industry will ever reach the point where most cars will be able to travel 100,000 miles on minimal maintenance?
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    Most cars already are at 100K with "minimal maintenance". Other than fluids, filters, and "wear out" items such as brake pads, wipers, etc, there isn't much to do. It wasn't that many years ago that changing oil every few K was required, tune-ups at least every 30K (and I remember when they were every 12K!), etc. Today, most cars go 100K on the same set of spark plugs. There are no points/condensor, etc to replace; oil changes are figured by the car's computer and many cars go over 10K between them, etc, etc, etc. While I am sure that things will continue to improve, you have to say that the auto industry has taken much of the routine maintenance out of car ownership.
  • upuautupuaut Member Posts: 14
    However, my experience with a 2002 Passat is that the rear brakes wear out at about twice the rate of the front. It's a mystery.

    Hey Warthog, if you live in the snowbelt or some other area with a lot of sand/grit/dirt on the road that is the cause. The front tires kick up the dirt, it coats the rear discs and causes fast wear on the rear pads. this is the one advantage of rear drums (other than being cheaper to make) they are a closed design, keeping dirt out.
  • upuautupuaut Member Posts: 14
    I'm not buying your logic. wether the front of a car is raised slightly, or lowered slightly, or the same done to the back of the car the weight sitting on each tire will not change very much, so your comment about a BMW squatting down and applying weight to the rear is not correct. I don't doubt this trait is a good one, but I would say it is to keep proper suspension geometry, not weight transfer. And wether a car has 50/50 weight distribution, or 54/46 or 48/52 wouldn't make much difference either. Why would a car having 54% of its weight over the front wheels do 85% of it's braking with the front wheels, and one with 50% of its weight over the front wheels do 50% of it's braking with the front wheels? i would agree that it would be a bit better, maybe down to 80%. Due to inertia the front wheels, under hard braking, will be able to slow the car down a certain amount before skidding happens (or ABS kicks in) the back wheels will not be able to slow the car nearly as much as the fronts before skidding. Think about riding a bicycle on a wet road. Even if the have 50/50 weight distribution on each tire when you apply the back brakes you will hardly slow at all before the tire starts to skid. then release and go up to speed again and do the same with the front brakes. They will slow you down a lot more before skidding. that is the basic physics I am saying BMW nor any other car can overcome. Well maybe the 911 with the engine weight hanging behind the back wheels.
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