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Comments
2. G35 - 7,992
3. ES350 - 7,444
4. TL - 5,769
5. IS - 5,077
6. CTS - 4,881
7. C Class - 4,486
8. A4 - 3,783
9. MKZ - 3,626
10. TSX - 3,232
Taken the 2 classes together, BMW is undisputed king of the sports sedans, Infiniti is king of the Japanese sports sedans.
TSX is really cutting into TL sales. Why not just drop TSX, and offer a 2.5 V6 option with TL? Acura really needs a RWD platform to compete in the higher division.
My guess is when a Lexus sports sedan, GS or IS, comes out, pent-up demand is strong from Lexus loyalists. Once that's satisfied, there's not much demand from cross shoppers with BMW, Infiniti, etc. There probably will be minimal demand for the hi-price, hi-power 'F' series.
Audi's worldwide sales are fantastic, might overtake BMW soon. But as usual, can't catch a break here.
With strong overall sales, Toyota, Honda and Audi can afford to miss out on their GS, RL and A6. But GM got to hit a homer with STS and CTS, with trucks and SUV sales slumping. CTS's a single, STS's an out.
As long as buyers are staying with Acura, I'm not sure it matters whether they go TSX or TL. The TL cannot have a smaller engine with less power than the Accord.
The TL needs at least AWD. Saab Viggen torque steer is not a positive attribute for a sports sedan. As long as Acura continues to half-effort the RL, it will be the same sales disaster it has been since day 1, RWD or no. They let the last one languish on the market for a decade. I just dont think Acura really cares about the RL.
IMO that's just not good enough. Unless Acura can make AWD autos as well as Audis then yes I agree. But they dont.
Acura should offer RWD and AWD on their TL just like most their competitors. Please Honda, spare us the excuses and instead start building a rwd platform for the next generation TL (aint gonna happen--just wishful thinking on my part)
To be fair, Audi has been in the AWD game just a tad longer than Acura has, and it took them 25 years to figure out that if they push the torque to the rear wheels, their cars will handle better. The RDX shows though that Acura can do a decent handling AWD product that is not based around a front-mid engined RWD platform.
It would be very smart for Honda to do a multi-purpose RWD platform like Nissan's FM, but in their typical way they'd rather devote enormous resources to the NSX, and continue to just slap Acura badges on the Accord.
Audis biases that are not well hidden have been more a by product of the engine's placement and the front weight bias. I know it is all the rage these days to claim RWD biased AWD, but I would have rather Audi (years ago) had just decided to keep the Torsen system at 50 50 and figured out a way to even out the weight distribution.
Of course if they do both -- which they claim they are keen to do (and the A5/S5 does offer some hope in that regard) all the better.
My 50% 50% split A6 doesn't feel like an FWD vehicle because the torque split is 50-50, rather its "FWD-ness," if that is what it is, is due to its weight distribution problem, which is the root cause of the understeer -- understeer that Audi engineers do an almost unbelievable job of taming.
Moving the engine back a few inches will help Even better and smarter suspension designs, etc keep on coming from Audi
perhaps because of necessity. If an Audi were as well balanced as a BMW. . .well it makes me shiver to think how they would drive and handle.
So, Audi sold 100,000 cars last month -- first time in history.
The cheapskate in me knows this ultimately means the bargain train I have been driving all these many years has left the station. Gone, or soon gone, are the days when my neighbor's inline 6 cylinder 5 series with several, but not all, choice options was the same price as my V8 A6 with all possible options AND AWD.
The price (for me) of Audi's success is -- er, expensive.
What are the odds I'll be able to lease a $53K Audi next time for no money down, 15K/36/mo for $640/mo?
Slim just left town.
But, congrats to Audi -- man, if they make the A6 closer to 50 50 weight distribution, just imagine. :surprise:
Right, but at the other end of the spectrum you have ATTESA E-TS, where the front wheels don't get any torque unless deemed necessary, which give the G and M a RWD feel. The RS4's torque distribution does seem to improve its handling even with the engine still hanging over the front axle, so I don't think Audi's decision to go 40\60 with the torque was just a marketing gimmick to keep up with the Joneses in Munich.
If all the brouhaha about the push back of the engine in the A5 is more shack than yack, AND if they are able to shift the weight rearward, well, we may have something.
The G and M (and I am a fan) seem to have some drive-line lash or "lip synch" problems since they don't seem to act until there is that ever so slight loss of friction.
Under the circumstances most of us have to live with, I would (were I somehow granted a magic wand) want a well balanced and real time RWD biased AWD vehicle.
The 5x series is darn close.
After all these years though, "nothing satisfies, quite like BEEF -- it's what's for dinner."
Yet, if Infiniti wants to gift me a M35x, I'm there! :shades:
The one thing that bugs me about the Infiniti AWD cars is that you can't get the sport package with them. I know in the past BMW xi cars with "sport" were mostly just big wheels and sport seats, has that changed? Even if a G35"xs" could come with the G35s wheels and seats, that would be better than nothing. The standard 17s don't flatter the new G at all, there's way too much sidewall for a modern sports sedan.
Sport used to mean: handling improvements due to anti-roll bar thickness increases (typically 20%), lowering of ride height (typically 20mm minimum) & with stiffer springs, plus 1 sizing of wheels/tires and a switch from H rated all-seasons to Z rated summer only, more damping in the shocks/struts (or active or passive damping), a reduction in the turns lock-to-lock, road speed sensitive power steering, sport seats, and trim bits. There are also several other performance and/or appearance bits that are included here and there, sometimes brake improvements or auto transmissions tuned for more sportiness and even a decal here or there, an emblem on the steering wheel or butt of the car may be added too.
Presently, with the layering of option packages that makes the price go from the sublime to the ridiculous, the STS can sort of be had with a luxury-sport package and AWD (and MagnaRide.)
The Audi A6 for years could be ordered with a sport suspension (which almost always included plus 1 sized wheels and tires and summer only UHP tires at that), sport seats, etc. The sport suspension and upsized wheels and tires were $1,250 in 2005 (the wheels and tires alone were $1,000.) Then, the magic of bundling hit Audi too -- and they concocted something I like to call "S-light." It is technically called S-Line and it is a true sport package plus an appearance package -- no grunt improvements, however. And, just like Cadillac's approach, it is overpriced (but it is less than the STS considering that S-Line is currently offered as a stand-alone option for a number beginning with a "3."
If you want AWD and the sport suspension that most of us would associate with the term Sport Package, your choices are Audi and a $60,000+ STS (sort of sport package.)
The AWD BMW, so they say, cannot have the sporting bits because of the AWD mechanism and the requirements BMW has for a true sport set up -- i.e., lowering the ride height.
If you can wait, Audi promises a better balanced A6 AND a sport package in upcoming models.
Mean time, an A6 S-Line can be had with all the things noted above and +2 wheels and tires (19") -- despite its heavy nose, such an Audi, so equipped (especially with the 4.2 FSI engine) really performs far better than its big schnoze suggests. Take one for a long test drive.
Of course, with the V8, the A6 will be priced -- as an S-Line -- at that $60+K price point too.
I hear the V6 is getting a horsepower transplant (boost) in the upcoming model -- which may mitigate this.
Any comments from this crowd ?
Rocky
This is the mid-lux class. The Genesis is neither mid, nor lux. Its a 200" car.
I own a 2003 A6 3.0 . I love the car - It's been reliable (in more than 70000 mi) and very comfortable. I'm thinking of getting a new car and recently tested the new A6. I did not like the way it drove. It felt underpowered.
Off-topic: The Audi dealer here sells Jags too....I tried the XJ8L, and we may have a winner. The drive is amazing. Someone, PLEASE, convince me that I shouldn't be getting the leaper.
This car looks great and will be like buying a BMW 5 series at Acura TL money
Back to your regular schedule programming. Just wanted a opinion from the lux-crowd
Rocky
I'd have to assume that the A6 will be getting the updated version of the "3.2" thats going into the A5. Its not a big boost, something like 10hp. It's still going to get crushed by the 535i.
Good news, you can buy used Jaguar XJ for the price of a bag of Skittles, and not even a big bag. A certified pre-owned XJ is the high-end luxury bargain of the century.
There have been several less official statements (perhaps just rumors) that there will be a more powerful V6. The 3.2, with the typical conservative Audi bi-turbo treatment would easily match the engine that is in the 335 and 535.
If Audi does not rise to the challenge, I would argue they will HAVE to cut the price of the A6 w/265 HP to lure someone to buy it if the 535 can be had for similar money (as the situation has been between the 5 and the A6.)
So, to be clear. The only published info is for a +10HP boost. Yet we have seen these guys improve the breathing of these engines and get considerably more than 10HP. BMW itself cranked the 3.0 engine from 225HP to 260 without turbocharging. It would seem to be within reason that Audi, without the use of an impeller, could get a 6 cylinder engine a lot closer to 300HP than it is currently.
Bragging rights are very important perhaps even moreso than the actual performance. If your LPS gets to 100kph in under 7 seconds (close to 6 in fact), and the other guy's is a 1/2 second less quick, yet the slower one can claim "X" HP, well, all is forgiven.
I remember 1997 when Audi was bringing out the then current A6 (to the US). The 2.8 engine was putting out something like 193HP, but somehow appropriate breathing was added to the thing and it was able to come to the US with 200HP.
It was still, more or less, a dog. A slug.
The 3.0 was a great help, but it was the 2.7T that was the real performance version (even besting the 4.2 in 0-100kph.)
But the 2.8 sold well, its sluggish performance was real, but it could be said to have 200HP. It also had what I call, "same day acceleration."
Thus, the point is Audi HAS to be aware that a 300HP 535i and ix will blow a 265HP A6 away.
I have to believe there will be, again, an A6 middle child.
The fact that none is being announced, makes me all but certain it will happen. :surprise:
You forgot to add the qualifier. This would be a bag of Skittles purchased at the movie theater concession stand.
BMW 5-Series: Lease Questions
Lexus GS 450h: Lease Questions
Mercedes-Benz E-Class: Lease Questions
Mercedes-Benz CLS Class: Lease Questions
Welcome to CarSpace!
Infiniti M - 1,872
Audi A6 - 898
BMW 5-Series - 3,592
Acura RL - 658
The Audi and BMW salesmen say that the rear side airbags are only safe for adult passengers because the deployment of this airbag in a side impact accident could injure a child sitting in a car seat next to the side where the accident occurs.
The Mercedes salesman says that the rear side airbag only comes out 3 inches from the side door so it should not injure a child sitting in a car seat.
The Lexus salesman says that he has never heard of child safety concerns with rear side airbags.
Are all rear side airbags the same or are the airbags that come as standard equipment in the Mercedes smaller? Also are rear side airbags just unsafe for infants sitting in rear-facing child seats or also for larger children sitting in front-facing convertible child seats and booster seats?
Thanks for your help - the reason my wife and I are buying a car in this price segment is to get more safety in case of an accident, not less!
However, it is my understanding that a 3+ year old child properly buckled in a properly installed front facing safety seat should be fine. GEICO ran a safety test a couple of years ago and found that the vast majority of car seats are not properly installed. Too much slack in the seat belt and installed too close to the door (i.e. up on the side bolsters) were the most common mistakes. My wife scored an "A", but questioned at that time whether the side curtain airbags in our MDX were a safety issue. The response she got was that side airbags and curtains were positive safety features, contingent upon proper installation of the car seat, so that it couldn't be tipped or twisted by the airbag deployment.
Since safety seems to be a critical issue for you, I'd highly recommend checking out both the IIHS and EuroNCAP scores for each of these cars. The NHTSA tests are pretty weak.
regards,
kyfdx
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Regards,
Jose
As far as reliability, she is ok, but she is no Lexus. Most of the problems have been nuisances. Some of which may be because I have one of the early 05s.
The airbag light came on two weeks after I purchased the car. It took them 10 days to figure out the problem. Audi then came out with a TSB on updating the computer software for the airbags.
The MMI "crashed" a year after I bought the car. After having the car for 8 days, Audi wiped the hardware clean and reinstalled the MMI computer software.
The MMI had a few bugs with not updating the satellite radio stations, losing surround settings and sometimes not automatically linking with my bluetooth phone. Audi had the car for a day and updated the MMI computer software. Audi has a TSB on this issue as well.
I have written those three problems off to having a very early computer software version. To give you an idea of the number of changes in the software, my car came with MMI version 10 and now has version 33. Since being updated to MMI version 33, about two months ago, I have not had any computer issues.
As far as non-computer issues. I have had only two. The first was that all 8 coil packs had to be replaced. The second was the lid for the gas cap would not open from inside the car. In order to open it I had to wedge my credit card inside the lid and open it from the outside. Audi had the car for 2 days to fix these problems. Once again Audi has TSBs on both of these issues. According to the TSBs Audi corrected both of these problems about halfway through the 05 model year.
Despite the car being at the dealer for 21 days for repairs during the last 27 months, not maintenance, I would certainly buy the car again because it is a lot of fun to drive and the dealer gives me a loaner. However, I would check which MMI software version is currently in the car. If it is below 33, I would take it to Audi and have it updated as soon as possible. In addition, I would check the car's VIN and compare it to the Audi TSBs and see what issues you need to keep an eye on. While the car is still under warranty, I would make sure you complain about any issues contained on the TSBs issued for your VIN.
Good luck.
Kevin
Purchased a Cx-7 Mazda crossover van, currently 10,000 miles, no issues to date. Of course, it is hard to predict the reliability of any vehicle, but it would be very difficult for me to go with Audi in the future.
If you had bought your Audi used, with no warranty, the repair bill would be in the thousands for what has been replaced /repaired per your current "list".
From my 6+ years experience with Audi, it is a sport luxury car that should be leased for 3 years or so under full warranty, and then turned back in for something else. Long term ownership does not appear to be a good financial decision. My Audi had "an unbelieveable sensor system and is/was one of the most difficult cars to repair on the road today"--quote by my mechanic!
The previous generation A6 is pretty notorious as being incredibly problem prone, and for mechanical rather than electrical problems as you would expect to find on a Mercedes. In the last few years Audi seems to have cleaned up their act pretty well. There's still no way I would own one out of warranty, but I'd say that about pretty much every European car. I think a new Q7 is probably a lot less likely to have problems than the ML\GL\R classes.
n't be that hard and inconvenient. Was never able to go 10,000 miles w/o something major happening.
At this point, it has been a pleasure to drive a Mazda cx-7 for 10,000 miles without a repair incident.
I know the 535's are just starting to arrive at dealers, but was wondering if anyone has test driven one and what their impressions are. I would be especially interested in how you feel the 535's compare to other cars in this class with which you are familiar.
I currently have a 2006 330Xi and am thinking of moving to a 535Xi. What I am looking for is a quieter, smoother ride; avoiding the occasional hard hit caused, I feel, by the 45 series RFTs; retaining good handling; additional rear seat leg room; and the lure of more power, especially torque. A bonus would be more spacious seating up front, and a nice to have would be to minimize the increase in the overall size of the car to get the above.
So far, my short list of alternatives is the M35x in current cars, and the 08 CTS for upcoming cars (looks good on paper, and its the same size as the 5 series).
The only rumored alternative is an M45x, but I haven't seen anything more than that so far.
Thanks
Bruce
I have a m35x and a 2005 530.
The M is a great car if you can deal with it's "weirdness".
The wheels will get destroyed if you just look at a curb or go thru a car wash.
Because it is all wheel drive, the car tends to pull on uneven road surfaces.
The BMW is a great car as well...just had a ton of electrical problems with it, mainly the nav unit and anti-pinch windows that go down when they feel like it.
The BMW is leaving in two weeks and I decided to get a E350 4Matic.
My 2wd M35 Sport did the same thing.
What about the G35x? That's really more of direct competitor to the CTS. The A6 4.2 S-line is also worth consideration. If I remember correctly from when the M launched, there isn't enough room for both the V8 and the AWD system. I've also never heard anything about plans to add an M45x. Based on how Infiniti generally operates, I would expect the freshened M to get the new VQ35HR, and some very minor interior and exterior tweaks. I don't think they'll use the G coupe's new VQ37HR V6 unless the VK45 also gets a bump in power.
Appreciate the feedback. Had not heard about the M35x wheel issue, and the pulling is not encouraging. My biggest concerns about it are owner's reports that it needs an overdrive gear to cut down engine revs on the highway, and the possibility Infiniti will upgrade the engine later this year if I were to buy one now (to either the version in the current G35, or perhaps the 3.7 engine in the new coupe).
I've read mixed reviews about 5 series reliability, so that is a concern. I've had good luck with my 06 3 series, so I'm positive on BMW at the moment.
I've looked at the E series at auto shows, but haven't gone any further than that.
Thanks
Bruce
Did you eventually get the problem fixed of the car pulling on uneven roads?
Thanks
Bruce
Yes, I considered the G35x. I think the exterior of the new car is as greatly improved as the interior, and I like its looks. But after sitting in the car at the auto show, where I could adjust the driver's seat, I don't feel that it offers any significant advantage over my current car in rear seat leg room. It's not as roomy at the 5 series (and the 5 series is not as roomy as the M35x). I also have concerns about the lack of an overdrive gear in the auto, and some reports about road / engine noise.
On paper, the 08 CTS is almost identical to the 5 series in both exterior and interior dimensions, so I believe it will offer more interior room, especially in the back seat, than the G35x. It also offers a 6 speed auto with AWD, and the nice-to-have option of a folding rear seat, but it remains to be seen how good the actual car is. I'm viewing it as a value alternative rather than direct competitor to the 535Xi.
Thanks
Bruce
The A-6 is a very striking design, but not one I personally would care to own. Its also too big.
I have no idea if there will be an M45x. A little while ago I posted a question in an Infiniti forum asking about the possibility of an AWD version of the M45, and the person who responded thought there was not enough room for AWD with the V-8. Maybe that was you! But then I saw a posting in one of the Infiniti forums saying a dealer told them an M45x is coming.
If there ever were an M45x, I think I would find that more appealing than the M35x. A V-8 is inherently smoother than a V-6, and a colleague at work liked the responsiveness of the M45 much better than the M35 (he bought an M45 sport).
Thanks
Bruce
I tend to agree with your logic on the M45x question. Could be similar to why BMW doesn't offer a 550Xi.
In fairness to the A-6, my comment on size may be a bit in error. When I went to the BMW web site and did a comparison between the (2007) 5 series and A6, it showed the A-6 width as 79.2", which is 6.5" wider than the 5 series and 7.7" wider than the 3 series. But when I dug into the specs on the Audi site, they include the sideview mirrors in vehicle width and BWM does not, so I can't really tell.
The A-6 is 2.4" longer than the 5 series, which doesn't sound like much, but the 5 series is already 12.9" longer than my 3 series. I need for any new car to fit in my garage, and I don't have a lot of extra room in either length or width.
Thanks
Bruce
-Paul
I'm envious, I wish I had a standard garage! Used to when I owned single family homes, but am now in a townhouse.
Bruce