Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette · June 2012

They have it listed $4000 over Edmunds retail value (unless it has a lot of options other than nav). A brand new 2012 lists for $59k (again, with no options).

corvette · June 2012

A pool? Think of the huge garage/man cave you could build if you filled the pool in!

nyccarguy · June 2012

Fintail - you are the MB expert on the board. C63s are awesome cars. What do you think, they paid $35K-$37.5K @ the auction for it?

Stickguy - I know there are guys here who have a CRV & love it. I don't mean any disrespect to them because they are fantastic posters with a wealth of information & knowledge. I drove a CRV back in the summer of 2007. I was looking to replace my wife's (then) aging 2000 Mazda Protégé ES with a small SUV or Wagon. My 1st stop was the Honda dealer (A) because I was madly in love with my Prelude (and still am) and (B) it was literally walking distance from my house. On a hot day with the AC blasting, I went out with the salesman & the car barely had enough pickup to get out of its own way. I knew the instant I put my foot to the floor & the car barely moved that it wasn't the car for me.

stickguy · June 2012

not sure the HOA would go for that, but I like the way you think!

and in a few years when we bail out of NJ, we would love to build a house from scratch. And it will 100% have some extra garage and parking accommodations!

fintail · June 2012

That's probably about right. I have seen them a bit cheaper, the color just caught my eye as so many are black or silver. Needs to be closer to the low 40s to be a deal. If it is fairly loaded it probably cost 70K or so when new.

fintail · June 2012

It might have a few other options, but yeah, that price is high. I can find an 08 S550 for that money, and it would have been ~100K new.

fezo · June 2012

I knew the instant I put my foot to the floor & the car barely moved that it wasn't the car for me.

You should have taken the emergency brake off..... :P

nyccarguy · June 2012

Fezo - I knew I was doing something wrong!

isellhondas · June 2012

No offence taken but there must have been something seriously wrong with the CRV that you drove.

" Barely moved"?

I should take you for a ride in one of ours sometime.

I mean, they aren't like my old Pontiac GTO or my 409 Impala but neither one is a slouch.

Never once heard that from a customer on a test drive either.

No disrepeect to you either but I have to wonder if you left the parking brake on?

nyccarguy · June 2012

"Barely Moved" was an exaggeration on my part. I drove the car through city streets where it felt adequate, but trying to merge onto the highway with the AC blasting I didn't find the acceleration met my needs, especially after driving an EX-L V6 Accord that had a very similar MSRP.

ateixeira · June 2012

If I were to buy a new car today that same exact car would be on my short list.

That SkyActiv 3, plus an Impreza (AWD), and maybe a Golf TDI.

Not sure I need 2 Subarus in the driveway, since I can steal wifey's Forester when it snows. And I'm not sure I trust VW, so many friends have had bad ones I'd never hear the end of it.

If Ford sorts out the trans the Focus would make my list also. A friend has had issues with her Fiesta.

stickguy · June 2012

Something like this could work for me. And I am fully aware that it is an Audi. But I stil think it is a nice car to drive and would fit my functional requirements well. Though maybe a Volvo V50 would work better, but already having an S40 that seems too incestuous.

http://www.torchlightmotors.com/newandusedcars/5241/1930474/aa92abda-ecdc-4811-9- ba6-05e906302073/none/2005-Audi-A4Avant-Parlin-NJ-08859.aspx

stickguy · June 2012

went out to run some errands and grab lunch earlier, and totally unprovoked (as in, I was saying nothing about cars) she came out with another "I really think I want an RDX" comment. then she mentioned that the RDX was rated much higher than the Volvo, and she thought the XC-60 might look a little goofy. So apparently she was doing more research this recently! This is a complete novelty to me, in that she never did anything in the past unless I gave her stuff and told her to look at it.

She even pulled one of my favorite justifications out of thin air ("it really isn't that much more than the Honda"). I pointed out "not much" in this case was about 7K. She did mention then that maybe we should be more prudent, and that he Odyssey seemed to still be in pretty good shape, but she did not really seem to have her heart in it...

I may need to sit down later and fire up a spreadsheet with cost/payment options. And it still may end up being a Christmas present (having just missed getting it for her just-passed major milestone birthday).

I may have to use the driver amortization method to justify th eprice (as in, you can have it but you are keeping it for 10 years at least!)

fintail · June 2012

I am sure it is all relative. If I drove a CRV after my daily driver, I am sure I would be rocking forward trying to get it to move. Seems a 4cyl would be stressed in that thing, too.

stickguy · June 2012

well, on my test drive it was no rocket. and expecially with some passengers and the AC on, you are going to have to really floor it (with the associated engine roar) to keep out of the way.

My Volvo is like that. If you really boot it it can get out of it's own way, but at lower around-rown RPMs it is a bit of a putt-putt. But since I got it primarily for a teenager to drive, that is a good thing.

fintail · June 2012

That would explain some of it. In my daily driver, I can keep it around 2K RPM even in lower speed highway driving. Having to push an engine to 4K RPM will seem alien to me, and make me feel like I am stressing the car.

isellhondas · June 2012

Well, I have never been in a situation with any of our CRV's when they falied to "meet my needs". I have no false expectations of what it is and what it isn't. I'm not one of those guys who rockets up freeway on ramps.

I realize I'm not driving the BMW or my old Z-28.

I plan ahead and watch what I'm doing and they perform just fine...for me that is!

To each his own....

ateixeira · June 2012

1.8T?

You'll be back here in a week shopping for something more reliable.

ateixeira · June 2012

fire up a spreadsheet with cost/payment options

I made one of those once, came up with some convoluted horse-miles-per-dollar ratio, IIRC.

Tossed it out and bought the most fun car on my short list. No regrets.

michaellno · June 2012

If I were to buy a new car today that same exact car would be on my short list.

That SkyActiv 3, plus an Impreza (AWD), and maybe a Golf TDI.

Not sure I need 2 Subarus in the driveway, since I can steal wifey's Forester when it snows. And I'm not sure I trust VW, so many friends have had bad ones I'd never hear the end of it.

If Ford sorts out the trans the Focus would make my list also. A friend has had issues with her Fiesta.

Funny you should mention the Impreza and Golf TDI. The Mazda dealer in the Springs also carries Volvo and VW. Wife kinda likes the new Beetle, but it's not available with the TDI engine just yet. A Golf TDI that is equipped nowhere near the level of the 3i GT stickered for $26K - would probably be closer to $30K with the bells and whistles.

The Subaru dealer is across the street from Mazda. They had no (as in "0") Imprezas on the lot - and this is the self-proclaimed largest dealer west of the Mississippi. Supply problem? Popular?

However, wife and I decided that the CX-7 would still be available for bad weather duty. Really, there are about 10 days a year where AWD is necessary here in Colorado.

I like the Focus Titanium as well, but also have concerns about the PowerShift transmission.

If this were to happen, I think we would go with the 3i GT.

ateixeira · June 2012

We need context to discuss the CR-V's acceleration.

For its class, it's fine. About average, really. Lots of those take 10 seconds or so to reach 60.

Plus the buyer (toddler mom with 2 kids) doesn't really need any more speed, and won't ever be passing on 2 lanes.

I doubt they'll tow, either.

It's fine. V6 sedan was the husband's car. The mom was far more sensible and had the 4 banger, so again, it's par for her.

Funny thing is the newest competitor, the CX5, is the slower, so the CR-V is the quick one.

ateixeira · June 2012

One thing - the Navi screen Mazda employs is tiny. I'd pass and go aftermarket. I think it's 4". Heck, my portable Magellan is 7".

Ditto on the Golf TDI prices, DSG with Navi is in BMW X1 price territory.

Impreza sales up 236% last month. Good luck finding one, or at least the color/options you want.

You say you want a red 5 door stick? Let me show you our blue automatic sedan!

Funny thing is it actually happened.

nyccarguy · June 2012

I should have taken that into account too. It's not meant to be my Prelude. I LOVED the tremendous amount of space behind the 2nd row & the fact that it was a Honda. The CRV is one of those vehicles that everyone who owns one absolutely loves it. They are well made & will run forever. The insanely high prices of used & CPO CRVs reflects what good cars they are.

As most of you know, we ended up with a BMW X3 at the time & LOVED every second of that lease.

ateixeira · June 2012

If a group of people start talking about 0-60, handling, performance, the CR-V owner would leave for the buffet table.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. They just care about other things.

Start discussing LATCH tether anchors and they'll be ALL UP in your face with thoughts.

stickguy · June 2012

my wife really took to the CRV because it just felt "right" to her. Largely (in her mind) because it was so familiar after 7 years in an Odyssey. Though to be fair, it was quite comfy and nicely laid out, with plenty of gizmos and goodies.

The RDX though just was nicer to her. Seats a little more cushy, and just seemed more upscale, while of course still exuding Honda-ness. makes sense, since it really is, essentially, a luxo model V6 CRV!

still not sure what we will do. the practical answer is get a CRV, pocket the 7.5K+ in savings, and have lower ongoing fuel costs to boot. And if she never drove an RDX, would probably be perfectly happy with it. Or just splurge (really for the first time, since before this the Odyssey was the highest end vehicle I ever went for!)

nyccarguy · June 2012

You are right about context. My wife is the one with the lead foot though, so she's definitely not your average suburban Mom.

With 3 kids, her DD is a 2011 Pilot. She coaxes my 328xi away from me about once a week.

andre1969 · June 2012

I believe those small block Chevy engines were 262 cubic inch. Real oddballs and those plugs wre an absolute [non-permissible content removed] to change.

There was one year that Chevy actually crammed a 350 V-8 under the hood of the Monza! But, before you get all excited about that, it was choked down to something like 125 hp.

For comparison, I think the 262 V-8 had 110 hp.

I've heard that with something like a Monza, the 231 V-6 gave you the best blend of power, economy, and handling. Although it seems to me that with the V-6, changing the back plugs might be a pain, as well. But, maybe not as bad as the Chevy V-8. The spark plugs on the Chevy V-8 point down, and are below the exhaust manifold, whereas they point upward on the Buick engine, and are above the manifold.

isellhondas · June 2012

Oh, that's right...they DID use a anemic 350 one year.

Those were dark days for the auto industry and a lot of crappy cars were being produced in a hurry. They were suddenly forced to make clean running cars and they really hadn't learned how at that point.

I remember the dealership mechanics just HATED most of the domestic cars that were being produced during those years.

Cadillac suffered the most. The put anemic V-6 engines in big cars and the garbage diesels too. The miserable HT 4100 engines cost Cadillac a lot of very loyal customers.

graphicguy · June 2012

fire up a spreadsheet with cost/payment options

I made one of those once, came up with some convoluted horse-miles-per-dollar ratio, IIRC.

Tossed it out and bought the most fun car on my short list. No regrets.

Yep.....tried the spreadsheet-make financial sense out of a car, etc. Threw it all away and started buying what I liked. Like your thinking ate.....

michaellno · June 2012

One thing - the Navi screen Mazda employs is tiny. I'd pass and go aftermarket. I think it's 4". Heck, my portable Magellan is 7".

Ditto on the Golf TDI prices, DSG with Navi is in BMW X1 price territory.

Impreza sales up 236% last month. Good luck finding one, or at least the color/options you want.

Our CX-7 has the OEM Mazda nav, which I think has been used maybe twice in 15 months. Wife is used to the interface and hasn't ever used an aftermarket device, so she doesn't know any better. Oh, and she has an iPhone, just in case.

She likes the Xenons, so that's what necessitates the Tech Pkg.

So, IF she gets the job and IF the number of miles she would drive a month would subsidize a majority of a car payment, insurance, gas, etc., then we MIGHT do this.

Lots of things have to align correctly.

stickguy · June 2012

I wasn't talking about analyzing the car options, or doing some kind of price/value analysis.

Just figuring where the money was going to come from, and how much each one would cost!

I have no problem at all figuring out what I want!

corvette · June 2012

I was looking at the CX-5 after reading a couple of rave reviews and noticed that you have to get the mediocre-looking nav system in order to get xenons. If I controlled the option packages and features, I'd want:
- CX-5 Grand Touring FWD with Tech package, 6-speed auto
- Delete 19-inch wheels/tires and add 17-inch wheels/tires (the 19s are a weird size, as others have noted)
- Delete auto climate control and add infinitely variable fan control to the manual climate control
- Add one-touch up/down for all four windows
- Delete power driver's seat
- Delete Bose audio
- Delete nav system (my Garmin is easier to upgrade when the time comes)
- Possibly delete leather and replace with alcantara or high-grade cloth, but leave the seat heaters and
- Make the keyless access fob the same size and shape as Nissan's.

You could accomplish some of the above by getting a loaded Touring instead of the Grand Touring, but the photos of the cloth seats I've seen remind me of the low-rent seat fabric in the Pontiac G6 I had.

mark156 · June 2012

I find the Honda CR-V adequate on power. When you floor it, the air conditioner compressor turns off for a few seconds to pour all the 'thrust' to the AWD system! :P

Even if they offered a 6 in the CR-V, I would choose the 4 for better mileage as that's what the car is for (efficiency).

I'm still planning on getting a 2013 at the end of this year or early next year. I wish the new one offered the space on the floor under the gear shift.... nice for storing things.

Mark156

ronsteve · June 2012

Even if they offered a 6 in the CR-V, I would choose the 4 for better mileage as that's what the car is for (efficiency).

Which is a bit ironic, knowing that the RAV4 with the V6 just about matches the 4-cylinder RAV4 AND CR-V for fuel economy.

michaellno · June 2012

I was looking at the CX-5 after reading a couple of rave reviews and noticed that you have to get the mediocre-looking nav system in order to get xenons.

Yeah, Mazda is like that. Like I said, our CX-7 has the nav and xenons, and I'm OK with that. The nav doesn't get used all that much, but it's nice to have when needed. The xenons, OTOH, are something I suspect the wife won't live without going forward.

There are times where I would like to go back to the days where every option could be chosen individually, so you could custom build what you want. MINI does that, to a certain extent. Most manufacturers, however, bundle options into packages or trim levels and you end up with stuff you may not want in order to get stuff you do want.

nyccarguy · June 2012

My Dad (66) says that all the time. He knows it's not cost effective for the mfrs & then dealers wouldn't have inventory to fulfill their "buy right this instant" customers desires, but he told me about cars he bought back in the '60s & '70s where you could literally pick any exterior/interior color combination. Even if the color wasn't offered by Chevrolet, if it was offered on an Olds or Caddy they'd special order it for you. My parents usually order their cars & don't buy off the lot. It's so much of a better experience to order exactly what you want & wait for it rather than the buy now approach.

mark156 · June 2012

Ronsteve, the other thing I forgot to mention is that I want to keep the weight down on the Honda CR-V as I tow it behind the motorhome. With the AWD system we are under 3,600 lbs.

If Honda did offer a 6 in the CR-V, it would obviously weigh more. In '07, the CR-V removed the rear hanging tire of which the RAV4 still had at that time. That's one reason I chose the '07 CR-V over the '07 Liberty (the tire and fuel economy).

Mark156

tjc78 · June 2012

It's so much of a better experience to order exactly what you want & wait for it rather than the buy now approach.

I agree, but really with options being nothing like they were in the past its usually not to difficult to find exactly what you are looking for.

Imagine the oddball cars you would have to today if you could cherry pick the myriad of options available. I'd be ordering top engine choice, the best stereo, A/C and cooled seats. The heck with the rest!

isellhondas · June 2012

A lot of oddball cars were created in the "old days". Some of these were cars that the dealers couldn't give away if the customer backed out after the deal was struck.

I once saw a 1963 Chevy Biscayne station wagon with a factory 409 engine 400 horse with a three speed on the column.

Or the '64 Impala SS with a six cylinder stick shift WITH factory air conditioning!

I've seen other examples of wierdness.

michaellno · June 2012

As most of you know, I moonlight several nights a week as a pizza delivery guy. Thought I'd take a moment and provide you with a list of the cars that my fellow drivers tool around in. It's an eclectic and interesting list, and I welcome any comments you may have. No particular order here; it's based on the order of drivers in our weekly schedule.

(BTW, I'm not certain of the exact model year of these cars - I googled their images to get a sense of what generation they are)

2003 Pontiac Grand Am
1997 Isuzu Rodeo
2006 Honda CR-V
2008 Kia Spectra
2006 Saturn ION (mine)
2006 Toyota Corolla
2005 Nissan Sentra
2010 Subaru Impreza
2008 Dodge Durango
2003 Nissan Sentra
1987 Honda Prelude
2012 Nissan Murano
2008 Hyundai Tuscon
2010 Ford Focus
1990 Ford Escort Wagon

corvette · June 2012

A lot of Asian makes there, and not so many domestics, but that seemed to be pretty typical when I was in Colorado last year. I'm surprised there aren't more Subarus, it seemed like you can't walk down the street in CO Springs or Denver without tripping over one.

No way in heck would I want pizza smell in a new 2012 Murano! :sick:

fintail · June 2012

There's a guy in my area who delivers in a Peugeot 505. He has guts!

Saw an old 300E doing delivery duty the other day.

tjc78 · June 2012

2008 Dodge Durango

Wouldn't want to put gas in that for delivering duties.

stickguy · June 2012

not too long ago one of the magazine funny guys (probably Ezra Dyer in Automobile) borrowed an orange Lambo and used that to deliver something (pizza or chinese). Odd thing was, half the people did not even notice!

roadburner · June 2012

A friend of mine clued me in to an online BMW VIN Decoder. Just enter the last seven digits of a BMW's VIN and you'll get what is essentially the build sheet for that car. Way cool!

fintail · June 2012

Fun stuff, I like browsing classifieds and putting in VINs

Here's a couple of MB ones:

Site 1

Site 2

Neither explain color codes, but those are easy to look up. Apparently one can get free access to the MB sponsored Startek database and find even more info.

fintail · June 2012

Most people are so preoccupied with their food, they don't look as far as the driveway. Around here I am surprised they don't use Range Rovers.

roadburner · June 2012

Thanks for the MB sites.

corvette · June 2012

Are you changing coats, RB?

roadburner · June 2012

No, just interested in other marques. Wouldn't turn down a 190E 2.3-16 at any rate...

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