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Comments
As far as a TRD "competing against a Ford RAnger". I did that already in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon. My friend told me he was goint to "eat me alive". Well he didn't. I went everywhere he went, climbed, trailed, crossed whatever. Granted, I have P256x75R16 all terrain tires on my Ranger, giving it more ground clearance and better tracking ability than the stock firejunkers.
TRD in my opinion is a marketing gimmick. The locker can only be engaged in 4low and at speeds of less than 5mph. Without the locker engaged the axle is open. A very expensive option that will only be used maybe 2% of your driving time.
The TRD is supposed to be vastly superior to ANY Ranger. The TRD is supposed to bury any Ranger anytime, anywhere, anyday. This was the thought of my friend too. He and I exchange jabs all the time about our trucks. Finally one day I said "Prove it". He was glad too, telling me he was going to leave me in the dust, the Ford is going to breakdown, ect... The ball was in his court to show me, take me, whatever to places the Ranger could not go and his TRD could go. My whole point is do you really need to spend the extra 3K for a setup that you may use 2% of your driving time? even less for the locker?. He tried and tried to go places he thought for sure the Ranger would get stuck in or would not be able to climb. Surprise! I went everywhere, climbed, trailed, crossed whatever he did in his TRD. OK, maybe I was tossed around a bit more, or my ride was a bit more bumpy than his, or maybe my tires slipped a bit more than his at times, but I made it.
Statisics show that most 4x4's don't even see gravel roads.
When we looked into leasing, even with the 4.75% offered by Ford and getting the truck at 3% over invoice, the lease payments would have been higher than my 4Runner's because the Ford residual was only 57% vs. my 62%! (see, resale DOES matter) I was willing to get a Ford if it was cheaper than a Toyota, but for the same price, it won't be a Ford. There goes that argument.
BTW, drove a 2001 Pathfinder LE as well. Toyota, Ford and all the others better look out. That is one nice truck with plenty of power and the LE (top of the line) only stickered at about $33-34k vs. $37-40k for Toyota/Ford top of the line models.
And, I have to say, I am glad the 4.0 SOHC is coming soon, This was needed a year ago by book, The Ranger was getting clobbered in the HP war.
This room seems to have quieted down over the last 2-3 weeks. Hind, wsn, even spoog aren't around as much. CP has also vanished. It was fun debating the Tacoma vs Ranger. I need to spend more time in the Frontier vs Ranger room. Lots of fun over there now. I need to start digging up more stuff on the Frontier.
See you in the hills.
Http://www.fordranger.com/4l/6845.html
This link is from Gloria over on the Ranger Station. She is in a repair shop business and does rock climbing in Nevada in 4X4 Fords, Explorer I think. She VALUES the 4.0 and in this link states that the 4 liter, properly maintained, should get in excess of 200,000 miles between rebuilds. She also has published more than one article in 4X4 magazines such a "Four Wheeler". I would trust her judgement.
So if you THINK the Ford 4.0 is a bad engine, THINK AGAIN.
I believe the Ranger is slated to receive the SOHC 4L sometime this summer or early fall.
You could probably get an incredible deal on a 2000 OHV 4L this fall when the new Ranger comes out. The OHV 4L is still a good engine (with an easy $500 in mods it'll perform as well as or better than the SOHC 4L in stock form), but everyone will want the Cammer. I'm thinking great financing and/or huge cash back on the 'ole push-rod Rangers. Might be something to think about...
on the Frontier.
See you in the hills."
Come on Vince. What have you ever "dug up" about that Tacoma? lol. Surely your trademark slogans of " Enjoy the Sticker", and " Ford must be doing something right if they sell the most trucks" are merely arms length away.
In one of your posts you stated you agreed with someone who said a stock Ranger cannot compete with a TRD.
Would you settle for pictures of stock Rangers competing with Jeeps (not ONE TRD to be seen) on some of the worst trails in MOAB?
Some people I write to from the Denver area made that trip on April 21. I was going to go but still had not finished my house project. When I post the URL, follow the antics of fordtech and 410ford as they compete real well with the Jeeps and conquer "hells revenge".
http://www.fordranger.com/offroad/42634.html
In one of your posts you stated you agreed with someone who said a stock Ranger cannot compete with a TRD.
Would you settle for pictures of stock Ranges competing with Jeeps (not ONE TRD to be seen) on some of the worst trails in MOAB?
Some people I write to from the Denver area made that trip on April 21. I was going to go but still had not finished my house project. When I post the URL, follow the antics of fordtech and 410ford as they compete real well with the Jeeps and conquer "hells revenge".
http://www.fordranger.com/offroad/42634.html
Do they even HAVE 4+ rated trails in Ill.?
Do not doubt what a Ranger can do, as it WILL suprise you.
www.blueovalnews.com/ranger_edge.htm
That proves nothing. For all we know, those guys just parked their rigs at the start of the trail and hopped into another ride.
And I will say this AGAIn Cspounser... a TRD TAcoma will TROUNCE a Ranger. Absolutely TROUNCE it. The TRD TAcoma is the best stock pickup made for offroading, PERIOD.
Do I reaLLY need to repost the Tacoma verse ranger comparison by 4wheeelr again?
Although the compact Tacoma XtraCab itself is not completely new, the Toyota Racing Development (TRD) suspension and locking rear differential package is. The TRD Off-Road Package offers oversized fender flares, alloy wheels, 31-inch tires, Bilstein shocks, slightly softer spring rates, and an electromechanical, button-actuated rear locking differential, all for $1,690.
Our Surfside Green test unit came with the 3.4-liter, dual-overhead cam, 24-valve engine and five-speed manual transmission. The Tacoma came factory-equipped with the lowest axle gears of the test: 4.10:1. It was this combination of excellent gearing (First gear for the factory five-speed is 3.83:1) that made testers comment about how readily the Tacoma jumped off the line. In fact, during track testing, the Tacoma was substantially faster than the others, both loaded and unloaded (see page 30). Tract ion came courtesy of a more aggressive tread in the 31x10.50 Goodyear Wrangler three-stage GSA. We found it supplied surprisingly good cornering power on pavement, with plenty of potential for aired-down trail running.
As well as the Tacoma performed on the track, it was on the trail where the premium import seemed most comfortable. Best-in-class ground clearance, the most aggressive tread of the bunch, and a crawl ratio of better than 40:1 made the Tacoma everyone' s choice for hill climbs and steep backside descents. Even our resident auto-tranny diehards had to admit that the lively throttle response, sure-grip clutch, and built-to-work gearing meshed together as well as any championship-caliber team. In each perf ormance-related category of our test, the Toyota won.
It's not often that our collection of testers agree on anything (in fact, never), but this year's Pickup Truck of the Year was a unanimous decision. Praises relating to the TRD suspension mentioned its ability to control rutted, seriously choppy terra in better than any other vehicle we'd driven. One tester went so far as to note that during a few moments of an effortless dry-wash run, it seemed the spirit of Ivan Stewart had taken over his body. This is a truck that can go slow or go fast, on pavement or off.
Ultimately, in addition to a strong engine, good tires, and supremely tuned suspension, the clutch defeat switch (the only one in a truck sold in the US.), lever-operated transfer case, and pushbutton locking rear differential were the icing on a toug h-truck cake. Although you have to pay a premium for a premium package, the TRD Tacoma, dollar for dollar, is the best on- and off-highway compact package (maybe of any truck) we've seen. This truck has features the others just don't offer, and they all w ork. And that's why it's our 1998 Pickup Truck of the Year.
Maybe ONE of these days it will fially sink into your skull.....sigh........
Ford's 4.0-liter overhead-valve V-6 gave our Regular Cab Ranger plenty of off-the-line motivation with 168 lb.-ft. of rear-wheel torque at 2500 rpm. Mazda's 3.0-liter/five-speed manual transmission gave the Regular Cab B-truck the slowest 0-60 time, but the best fuel economy of the group. Although the middle-sized V-6 of the group, the Toyota 3.4-liter DOHC 24-valve V-6 pulled all the way through the torque curve like most small-blocks.
The Ford five-lug 8.8-inch rearend comes standard with the 4.0-lite/five-speed auto combo. Leaf springs and 3.73:1 axle gears are rated to carry 1,180 pounds. Mazda's 7.5-inch rearend is standard with the 3.0-liter V-6. Not surprisingly, our ride-quality vastly improved with 12 bags of landscape rock in the compact's bed.
Toyota's TRD Tacoma comes with the only factory offered rear locking differential on any (full-size or compact) pickup. We found it a huge asset for trail adventures.
FORD & MAZDA TOYOTA
Ford's new compact frontend uses F-150-style short- and long-arm IFS, with torsion bars. The setup offers big gains on pavement--but not without trail sacrifices.
The new Pulse-Vacuum Hub (PVH) used exclusively on compact Fords and Mazdas allows for true in-cab-controlled shift-on-the-fly capability.
Toyota's double A-arm/coilover frontend handles pavement cornering and trail flex with equal skill. We like the six-lug axles and big-caliper front discs.
Following in the footsteps of its close relative, the '98 Ranger adopted many of the mechanical modifications incorporated into the Explorer two years earlier. Among the biggest changes include an entirely new double A-arm front suspension with light-duty torsion bars. The new IFS, combined with an all-new rack-and-pinion steering setup (which offers its own steering fluid cooler), won high praises from our testers over our 800-mile test. Specifically, the Ranger scor ed well in Highway Performance categories that centered around maneuverability and long-distance cruising. Testers noted the new steering proved especially quick to react in tight-chicane situations. No doubt about it: This new Ranger out-handles, out-ste ers and out-corners any Ranger before. By a mile.
We would characterize the drivetrain, specifically the transmission, as biased for highway performance as well. All 4.0-liter Rangers (and Mazdas, for that matter) ordered without the manual tranny get the first five-speed automatic transmission offer ed for any pickup. Our testers split over the need and/or usefulness of a mileage-biased transmission geared for empty-load flatland running. Those in favor noted the nearly seamless transitions from one gear to the next, and how the transmission itself c ould, if the vehicle was driven right--no jackrabbit leadfoot starts--tack on another 50,000 miles of life to the engine.
On the trail, we found the automatic transmission to be a double-edged sword. The smoothness of the First-to-Second shift, combined with the inherent low-end grunt of the engine, was almost enough to overcome the taller gearing. And in the end, voting followed individual preferences for manuals versus automatics. Two testers noted both the manual transmissions (Mazda and Toyota) felt more "in control" on the twisty low-range trails of Truckhaven, where face-down compression braking was very helpful o n steep-trail crawling. In low-range, our automatic Ranger offered a rather delicate 22.8:1 crawl ratio (First x axle gear x low-range); the Mazda and Toyota offered 34.4:1 and 40.4:1 gearing, respectively.
Likewise, where the stiffened front suspension cleanly handled all paved-road obstacles thrown in its path, the Ford IFS had trouble keeping up with the broken terrain of dry washes, hill climbs, and washboards. Admittedly, it is a rare vehicle that c an manage all the extremes with equal aplomb, but several testers commented that the Ford liked to spring a little bit quicker (and hop higher) off the rolling whoop-de-doos. For the most part, we found the sacrificed off-highway capability to be greater than the gained on-highway performance, and for that reason it didn't score well in the parts of our test that are most heavily-weighted; however, that isn't to say testers weren't squabbling among themselves to get into the Ranger for the highway drives up the mountain.
Finally, testers showed their traditional colors by not favoring the dash-mounted rotary dial ("looks a lot like an A/C control--and no Neutral") of the Borg-Warner 44-05 electronic transfer case. The 44-05 never gave us a lick of trouble--we submerge d the gearboxes under freezing water, as well as subjecting them to high-heat, dust-blasted wash runs--and by going to a dial, floor space opens up, but our scorers' preference is for a lever-actuated system, or anything with a Neutral position, regardles s of the floor space it takes up.
Like any good four wheeler, we found the Ford Ranger could do several things quite well, scoring highly in On-Road Ride and Handling and Interior Comfort. To us, the new Ranger is a nice-looking, comfortable truck that is easy to drive and easy to own . And it's made in plants with a reputation for quality. But the Pickup Truck of the Year has to do it all pretty damn well, and it has to be great off-highway. And so we introduce our 1998 winner.
Can we say repetitive and boring. Yawn...
Can we say repetitive and boring. Yawn...
Can we say repetitive and boring. Yawn...
Can we say repetitive and boring. Yawn...
You've been posting that now almost 3 year old article for the past umpteen months of a head to head article about two unsimilarly equipped trucks.
Why don't you just give it up? It's really sounding sad.
Im sorry if you cant handle the facts.
Having trouble forming your own opinions?
Did you figure out what torque means yet?
Sounding even sadder....
The Tacoma beat the Ranger in every performance related category. Sorry pal, you cant dispute that. And if you TRY, you are only uselessly playing devils advocate and arguing for the sake of argument.
PLease get your head out of your [non-permissible content removed]. thanks.
Now you're changing your argument to 0-60 times and such?
I'm sorry. I actually use my brain to think for myself and form my own opinions rather than let some car rag comparo do it for me.
I have driven a TRD so therefore, by your definition, my opinion has backing? I never said the TRD was a bad truck either. It is a great truck, 3-5K$ higher in price than my Ranger, but still a great truck.
My point, since you did not follow, was that the Ranger, despite the lack of:
1) a3-5K$ higher price,
2) a trick suspension,
3) not requiring you to get a high priced option to get a tach,
4) 31X10.5 tires standard (psst, you can buy all the 31 inch tires you want at Discount tire),
5) a bit less hp (at the sacrifice of torque, the factor that really does an engines work)
and
6) a spiffy TRD Toyota ad sticker
a Ranger does very well for itself off-road.
spoog:
Well I can understand, knowing you, how you "could" think pics were at that URL. It was intended to just introduce the trip those guys took. Pics to follow, I ASSURE you YOU, even maybe by email, will be the first to know when they are available.
Oh, you said once you took a Toyota over Engineers pass?
That is rated 3-3.5. As stated, and I will find my URL at work, Devils Revenge in Moab is rated:
4+.
So we establish Rangers have been where you dare not take your Toyota, correct?
So why the comment in post 81?
I try, rather than some people on this board, to identify new info on BOTH Ranger and Tacoma. I have cited perhaps 5-6 articles, some in Four Wheeler, on the Ranger and Mazda tests (the ones from Four Wheeler, with the excepion of the one article spoog cites over and over and over again have been
very favorable
to the Ranger.
So please get your story straight ok?
Once again you confuse the issue.
You know, an Octopus does an interesting thing.
Whenever it is frightened, or surprised, or confused, it shoots a big stream of jet black ink into the water then scurries away. This cloud of ink confuses and clouds the scene.
You are the Octopus of this forum.
But, there are a couple of things holding me back:
(1) I don't think a dealer would like it too much for me to ring out a brand new truck on the trails, as I'm not quite fanatical enough to go out and buy them.
(2) There's nothing off-road to speak of here in Illinois. The most off-road you can get would be a corn field.
So, I'm stuck.
I only take offense to someone posting a magazine comparo as fact. The results beyond technical data are the opinions of the writers.
My beef with spooge's article is that they compare dissimilar trucks (most likely due to what the manufacturer had available for press evaluations). BTW, I'm not saying, either, that I wouldn't come to the same conclusion the testers did should I have been out there too.
These comparisons are old, bias and full of inconsistancies. We have picked these apart like mad in past posts and rooms. I also notice he fails once again to mention price, and crashtest results, and when the this fantastic locker is going to be used. Anyone who knows when and how a locker is used knows that this very expensive option may be used at most 2% of your total driving time. The axle is open the rest of the time. Everytime I see a TRD Tacoma I have to laugh. I have to give Toyota kudos for one heck of a marketing gimmick though. Enjoy the stickers guys!
Spoog every time I check out this site you ranting and raving about your tacoma you're even over in the F150 vs Tundra site raving about the Tundra's.I don't think you own any truck but maybe a bicycle with training wheels.Why don't you back up your claims and take a snap shot of your truck take it to fotomat for $5 bucks they'll put it on a floppy disk and you can transfer it onto your computer.I'd really like to see this infamous supercharged trd you have.
Ranger price as tested 21,475
Tacoma price as tested 26,205
almost $5000....
rangerknowhow - How does the TRD not compare on the road to a Ranger? I'll grant you that the Ranger has a softer ride but The TRD can take corners faster , and without the body lean that a Ranger has. As far as looks, I rarely had anyone complement me on the looks of my Ford but I get regular complements on my Toyota. In my experience, the general public prefers the looks of the TRD Tacoma. Where you live maybe its different. In Russia, for example, people prefer the Yugo.
eagle63 - I don't know that the TRD has anything that the ZR2 has except a reputation for better reliability than the S-10 and a better review from Edmunds as well as every other truck review I've read.
Vince- Your locker ritual response is getting old too. In places that my Ford's limited slip kicked in, my other truck (the TRD Toyota), pulled right through. The better suspension and tires did the trick without the locker. Once again, try driving a TRD sometime rather than just trying to knock it all the time.
It is not just idle chatter of a couple of guys.
So we will leave Moab to the Jeeps and Rangers for at least that day. And spoog to the cow pastures of Ill. and Wis. and racing Rangers from red lights to impress, well I guess,
himself.
Octopus. Good comeback from a clown fish. . .
I have DONE it numerious times and posted my pictures to prove that. Check my posts in the past. Unlike some, I try not to repost the same thing over and over.
We are in agreement that the TRD extra expense is offset by the additional work that went into the engineering of the added systems. I, unlike others, have not implied it was not worth it. I have tried to stress the alternative of a Ranger. I also have suggested that Ford offer something like a TRD and they may in the Adrenalin off-road package.
Less money, good reliability, good ride and it will preform very well off roas. Speed in getting there in favor of the TRD? Well, your only as fast as that slow polk Ranger in front of you on a narrow trail. . .
By the way, I own a Ranger XLT 4x4 stepside in light blue. I get complements all the time on my truck.