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If so, this is a big disappointment. I am not interested in old OHV engines. I want a modern engine like the 3.6L VVT in the LaCrosse.
GM should hire you as a designer!!!
While taking pics, a lady walked by me and told her husband that the Impala looks like a "Japanese Import". Her words, not mine.....
I had you in mind this weekend also, wondering if you were going to be going to the Auto Show in that heavy rain! Did you borrow a boat for the drive up from OC???
You are really a car fan, to brave that strong rain! Thanks for all the pictures.
I'll be going to the auto show again this weekend. A friend of mine is looking to buy a new car. He wants to dump his 540. I'm trying to convince him to get either STS, TL, M35/45, or 300C.
Simple, it will be quieter, smoother, produce less emissions, lighter, better NVH, breathe better at higher RPM's, rev quicker.
And yes, new DOHC designs produce more bottom end torque than old OHV designs. The only reason to hang on to OHV is cost. OHV is cheaper not better.
Ford will be release a new line of engines based on the 3.5L VVT DOHC design starting in the 2006 model year.
I agree you can't really count the ZR-1, due to it being a Lotus-design and the engines were built in-house (were built by a marine (boat) shop, correct?)
And frasierdogg, you forgot to mention that you have to REV those DOHC to the high heavens to get that high-torque number, along with the horsepower. Whereas the ohv make torque at low-mid rpm, mostly building right off idle. I will agree that there are a few DOHCs that start making decent pulling power near-right off idle and have o.k. mid-range torque, but they are few and very far between. And who wants to buzz their engine to the high side 5-grand to reach that pulling power?
You're points are o.k, but not really true in terms of NVH, smoothness, lighter (which I don't really see given the add weight of chains/belts, extra cams, gears, bigger heads...). Just because it's OHC doesn't automatically make an engine smooth and a NVH champ. And I won't mention the cost when you have to replace cams, possible stretching of the changes/belts, cost of changing the timing belts, damage if the belt/chain goes.
It's almost like saying OHC is new, it MUST be better, when in fact it's as old as OHV, heck older than what's considered the "modern" OHV!! Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's not as good as OHC. 3800 series II, gen III and IV small-blocks aren't bad.:>
If the OHC is sooo good, how come it took Ford over ten years to boost the hp from 210 to 300 for the 4.6?
That is a really old stereotype. Yes, it may have been this way in the first days of DOHC, but in today's world, its more than 'few and far between' that DOHC engines have good low and midrange torque.
Witness the Camry 3.3L: PEAK of 240lbs @ 3600 RPM.
The Malibu 3.5 peaks but 400 Revs lower, and with 20 fewer pounds. Or, we can use a Honda as an example. The Acura TL 3.2L produces 90% of its torque peak of 238 foot pounds by 2500 RPM. That means 214 pounds are on tap at that point. Is that not good low-end grunt?
~alpha
First of all OHV engines are lighter than DOHC engines of comparable sizes. On top of that they have lower center of gravity, no timing chains and modern OHV engines are just as good on emissions. As old as OHVs are supposed to be I find it amazing that they can still get the same, or better, mileage as modern DOHC engines and also qualify as low emissions vehicles. When I first started coming to Edmunds people were saying that GM had to phase out OHV engines because they coundnt meet the upcoming emissions standards. That was about six years ago.
Ford's new engine will not be out until calendar year 2006. By that time GM's 3.6 will in the Saturn Aura, Lacrosse and most likely the replacement for the Lesabre.
The response was to fraiserdog in that even though there are upsides to OHC layouts are there are downsides as well. And second, just because it's an OHC design, it doesn't make it automatically BETTER than OHV.
Going with the same size displacement, the Nissan 3.5L and Toyota 3.5L also post impressive torque figures. Since the Nissan 3.5L is sold in the U.S. alone in over 500,000 cars and SUVs annually, thats not "few and far between".
With regard to the Toyota, the peak of 260 is fairly high- at 4700 RPM, but the curve is said to be fairly even, so Id have a hard time thinking that that engine is not making the same 220 foot pounds at 3200 RPM as is the pushrod GM engine of the same displacement. And the DOHC engine won't be completely winded by 5000 RPM.
Since we're talking about examples, can you cite an OHC design that posts low torque for its size?
~alpha
According to the Chicago press release this engine has a 99x76 mm bore x stroke, so it's NOT the same as the non-VVT engine in the Malibu, which is 94x84 mm. The 3900-VVT is a bored version (99x84 mm) of the Malibu 3500, and it seems like they "de-stroked" the 3900 for the 3500-VVT.
The Impala press releases suggests looking at the "powertrain" press release for more details - does anyone know where this is? Sorry if this has already been posted, but I don't have the fortitude to read through any more of those "OHV sucks" threads...
"Since the Nissan 3.5L is sold in the U.S. alone in over 500,000 cars and SUVs annually, thats not "few and far between"."
Its over 300K, I believe.
Sorry!
The 3.6L is quite and has a very smooth power band all the way to the top. This is a nice motor.
The 3.5L is not nearly as smooth and does not have as flat a power band.
I really wanted to see the Impala with the same engine as the LaCrosse.
Oh well, when the Impala hits the showroom, I will try the 3.9L and see if I like the whole package.
Also, I looked at the discounts on the '05s and they look more generous this month. $2500 rebate, plus $1500 if you can prove ownership (I'm not sure if it's just current) and $500 for auto show promotion. I am not sure if that last one is just for cities having the auto show, though.
So you probably will be able to pick up a good deal on the '05s, hvan.
Lots of past Chevys have been LS, LT, LTZ, and SS...
--Robert
Since people are talking about OHV engines being winded at high RPMs I think it's worth noting that the Impala's V6 engines redline at 6400 rpm which is higher than some DOHC engines. GM's OHV V8s in the trucks redline at 6000 rpm which is higher than Ford and Toyota OHC V8s if I'm not mistaken. If there's an OHV engine out thre that doesnt have any top end power it's probably the HEMO which redlines at a meager 5400rpm. Honda/Acura are typically the ones making fours and sixes with very high redlines and tons of top end power. Most Nissan/Toyota/European products have rather tame redlines.
~alpha
I really like to see a new future design of a Chevy impala.
Maybe this is something to look forward too when people keep asking for a new GM-car by the board of directors of general Motors.
Chris.
I don't think GM would do such a significant reskin of the Impala for '06 if it were only going to be one or two years in production. I also doubt you'll see AWD on the current W-body-based car.
--Robert
The GTO is now first up for MY 2007, with the Chevy coupe also likely MY2007. Don't know if the G8 will be 2007 or 2008 MYs. Ditto the new Buicks. Impala will probably not be until 2009.
First plant to roll over to Zeta production is likely Hamtramck (where the current Bonneville, Deville, LeSabre, and Park Avenue are made). There will be a new DTS and Buick Lucerne, but not sure if they'll continue building those while starting to convert to Zeta. Eventually the Oshawa plant (where the Monte/Impala, Grand Prix, and LaCrosse are currently built) will switch over. The good news is those are 2 of GM's highest rated plants for quality (I think only the Lansing Grand River plant, where the CTS, SRX and now STS are made rates higher...).
--Robert
GM's been working for 4-5 years to get this V8 package ready for their FWD vehicles. I'd imagine they'll not overlook the tranny - despite an occasional blip, there's a reason why GM transmissions are known as the best in the business (except, of course, for the lag in the 6-speed auto development, but that's coming...)
--Robert
http://www.fast-autos.net/pontiac/pontiacgrandprixgxp.html
It's probably a mistake on their part. Scroll down under Photos to Specifications/General Information/Layout: It should have said FWD, not RWD.
An engine program like the LS4 V-8 takes at least 3-4 years of development. Go look on the GM Powertrain website, and you'll see that one of the design criteria for this engine was FWD applications.
The V-8 in the Impala/Grand Prix/Monte is not a crash-and-burn due to the success of the Chrysler 300. Bear in mind that crash-and-burn times in the auto industry are upwards of two years (which is how long it took to federalize the Holden Monaro as the GTO - the upcoming Solstice will end up being about 2 1/2 years from concept to on-sale). Also remember that federal/EPA regulations change on a regular basis. The 3800 engine won't meet some upcoming changes (not sure if 2007 or 2009), so obviously it must be either upgraded or replaced. GM obviously decided to replace it, and thus the FWD V-8.
Hope this explains things,
--Robert
(doesn't work for GM or any automaker - I'm just an IT geek with industry interest)