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Hybrid Tips Optimizing mileage
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Comments
___We use it as cover gas on top of some of our more critical liquid tanks as well.
___Supposedly, N2 helps maintain a consistent pressure as temperatures increases/decreases (race cars use it for this reason), it supposedly holds pressure longer although I don’t know why just yet, but most importantly, it should help reduce oxidation of the rubber from the inside of the tire. Again, big deal given what the exterior walls and tread is exposed to ;-)
___50 + #’s all around and a check every few weeks should suffice
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Does anyone know if this was true?
I doubt anyone would want to have another Hindenberg. Imagine if you have a flat and there is some sort of a spark, kaboom, you are in flames!!! "Oh the humanity...!!!"
I know Costco fills tires with Nitrogen. Other than slightly lower effect temprature has on pressure with Nitrogen I see no other benfit. Tires are certainly not the size of a blimp to lower the un-ladden weight when filled with Nitrogen or Hydrogen.
In reading most things about gas mileage, everyone who has a Prius is getting less than EPA says it should. But does anyone ever get the 55 to 60 MPG since they bought there car?
I have found that the EPA, does there tests in a garage and it is hard to get the same results as they do. All of my vehicles have gotten better & worse than EPA has said it should. When I take my 4Runner on a trip and do 400 plus miles, I have gotten over 26.54 miles per gallon at 65 MPH. Far more than rated by EPA, but also get less than 11 MPG around town, when it is very cold 0 to -5 degrees & 4-6 mile trips, far less than EPA.
I would like to know what people are really getting with there Prius's on an average, not the best or worse.
Please let me know what you are getting, and did you think you would be getting better?
me: well that's news to me too. In engineering classes, I was always taught: Pressure1 x volume1 x temperature1 = Pressure2 x volume2 x temp2. If the tire isn't changing volume, then changes in pressure and temp. are directly and equally related. Pressure is simply a measurement of the average energy of the gas molecules in the tire. If the vehicle is not moving, the tire will then lose energy and drop in temp. to reach equilibrium with the environment.
The point is that unless you want to be very, very precise and use a fugacity correction for pressure of a certain gas, all gases basically perform the same in regards to changes in P, V, and T.
Looking at another link I see that the reason nitrogen was used was because, the original air had moisture in it, and that makes the difference. But there should be no difference between nitrogen and air, if both are "dried".
I do agree that H2 being a smaller molecule will escape quicker from the tire. The risk level of using H2 is quite high compared to air or N2, and would never be commonly available because of risk and cost.
Gosh, I hope you were taught P1xV1/T1=P2xV2/T2.
Or else I hope you didn't go into engineering...
jprice
But, what I was pointing out with the equation is that if you put the same amount of molecules of 2 different gases in a tire, they are going to react similarly to changes in temperature and pressure, regardless of what they are. Ideal Gas Law PV = nRT; whether 1 = nitrogen or 2 = air.
I agree completely with that; I just wanted to make it clear that the temperature effect is inverse - i.e., if V is constant, P/T is constant.
My previous message was perhaps too harsh; I meant no offense.
jprice
-Steve
troy
I do wish Toyota would have designed vinyl or hard plastic on the arm rests & console cover.
And the dash does have a bit to much reflection in the windshield.
While the car is NO "screamer", it is fun and very practical. I really enjoy my Prius.
You could reduce or eliminate that glare problem by purchasing a DashMat in carpet or velour to change the color and reflectivity of the dash.
That will also protect the dash from harmful UV that can crack the plastics over time....
FYI.....
Anyone know how to get the scratches out of the plastic?
Any further postings off-topic will get deleted.
Thanks!
I think it started with polishing the car to get better aerodynamics thus, better mileage. Then drifted to keeping the car in top shape inside and out. I found it useful...
I just spoke to my dealer about the new Prius that I will be getting soon. I ordered it the First week of November and should expect it the third week of April at the latest. I asked her about the fuel concerns seen here. She told me that since Prius's are under battery power in cold weather they should get less MPG, as well as the fuel tank shrinks under colder temp., and you will find that a 11 gallon tank in the summer will become a 9.5 +/- in the winter under colder conditions. She told me about someone who figured there own MPG and did not look at the computer & would only fill the car when it would need over 10.0 gallons of gas & during a very cold time in Northern New Jersey, he ran out of gas. When he re fueled it only took 9.5 gallons.
I dont know if this is a crock of crap for me or is true, but it did sound good to me. Also, she told me that Toyota will have the fob in more cars this year & even more so next year & plan on fazing out the key as we know it today.
Also, by August all the waiting lists will be filled & by December 2005, there will no longer be a need for a waiting list, all dealers will have some in stock normally.
Let me know your thoughts.
1) Batteries are less efficient at low temps.
2) You need to warm up the engine for it to be the most efficient.
3) Rolling resistance of the slush and snow is greater than rain or dry roads.
Gasoline, being a liquid is probably more prone to thermal volumetric changes than metal or plastic since they are solids. Theoretically, you could get more gas for free in the coldest months than in warmest, because of the gas station's meters are calibrated to 70°F. Colder gasoline is more dense, thus for the same volume you get more gasoline.
troy
I remember back when I lived in Minneapolis that occasionally my fuel line would freeze up @ about 30 below and would have to dump a product into the tank to clear it, and a puff or two with a can of either.
(In the carb of course!
"According to the old clipping: “In tests recently at Daytona Beach Community College, Moody’s 1979 Mercury Capri test car got an astounding 84 miles to a gallon. The skeptical test supervisor, Bill Gordon, who has supervised Environmental Protection Agency fuel economy tests before, couldn’t believe it. ‘It is the car of the century,’ Gordon said enthusiastically after the test.”
The article’s description of the engine sounds confused. Moody is quoted as saying, “We took a four-cylinder Perkins block, converted it to diesel fuel, turbocharged it, and built a special clutch, transmission, and rear-end setup.”
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=- 9154
.
Nothing. But due to emissions restrictions (catalyst in the 80s, LEV standard in the 90s), the engine had to re-tooled, re-tuned, and re-worked.
Not it only gets 50 mpg. It sells in Europe.
troy ;-)
Ford Ka (3-door HB)
1.3-liter, 70 HP
26/46 mpg
0-62: 13.7s
31-62 mph: 15.2s
CO2: 154 g/km
Honda Jazz (5-door HB)
1.3-liter, 83 HP
32/46 mpg
0-62: 13.3s
31-62 mph: NA
CO2: 137 g/km
Honda Insight (3-door HB)
1.0-liter IMA, 76 HP
57/78 mpg
0-62: 12.5s
31-62 mph: NA
CO2: 80 g/km
Honda Civic Hybrid (Sedan)
1.3-liter IMA, 90 HP
39/55 mpg
0-62: 12.8s
31-62 mph: NA
CO2: 116 g/km
It is important to note that Civic Hybrid and Jazz share the same ICE (1.3-liter 8-valve I-4 SOHC i-DSI), with IMA added to Civic Hybrid. There is added size and weight, and performance, with improved fuel economy.
83 vs. 90 hp
proves they're not the same engine.
.
Eliminate stops. Eliminate wasted energy.
Like an interstate. You can drive across the country without encountering a stop sign, which means you don't waste energy via friction braking (except for refueling).
If we could make all roads like interstates, and eliminate the wasteful stopping, overall MPG would increase.
ASIDE: I recall driving on the interstate that run parallel to Route 66. At the end of the day, I stopped my insight to refuel. A husband & wife walked up to me and said, "We passed you several times today, and yet you still beat us here."
I replied, "Yes, because I can drive 1000 miles on a single tank, and don't need to waste time stopping."
;-) troy
90 HP is with IMA in HCH, and in case of Jazz, there is no IMA so just 83 HP. These are European specifications.
Plus, different bodies/different aero-drag.
The only way you can compare is to have *everything* identical between 2 cars, except one is non-hybrid & the other is hybrid.
troy
I see that the Prius City MPG is better than Highway MPG. Is this a perpetually sustainable condition or does a lower MPG eventually occur due to the need to recharge the batteries? In other words, if you theoretically mirror the EPA City mode for say .... 5000 miles would the overall average still meet the EPA result or does somehow the beginning condition of a significantly charged battery skew the result of EPA testing? Maybe a better way of asking is taking the absurd example of a hybrid vehicle with a huge battery which runs the EPA test cycle 99% via battery supply alone and only the last 1% by ICE and then claiming a huge MPG rating. I know this is absurd but you get the point of what I'm asking about the Prius. Maybe the EPA mode requires the beginning and ending battery charge to be identical in order to factor out pre-existing stored energy?
If you are making short drives in city conditions you will not get the EPA numbers. If you are spending 20 minutes or more on the road each time, you have a good shot at getting the numbers.
That doesn't change the fuel economy, the issues around keeping the engine and catalyst warm in cold conditions, as well as variations in fuel composition (especially in locations that use gasahol (E10) in wintertime) are a contributor too.
Culliganman(make mine hybrid)
"According to the old clipping: “In tests recently at Daytona Beach Community College, Moody’s 1979 Mercury Capri test car got an astounding 84 miles to a gallon. The skeptical test supervisor, Bill Gordon, who has supervised Environmental Protection Agency fuel economy tests before, couldn’t believe it. ‘It is the car of the century,’ Gordon said enthusiastically after the test.”
The article’s description of the engine sounds confused. Moody is quoted as saying, “We took a four-cylinder Perkins block, converted it to diesel fuel, turbocharged it, and built a special clutch, transmission, and rear-end setup.”
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=- - 9154
The magasine had a sideline explaining why it wouldn;t have worked. Super high compression ratio, and very high rates of boost will produce desired fuel economy with maybe 1000 miles of engine life.
We went out for a test drive. The car pulled like hell. It pinged like hell, too, and busted a piston early in the acceleration runs.
Would you like a car that is good on gas, but needs engine work every week?
The Biodiesel post was moved to the Biodisel Vehicles discussion.
PLEASE look at the entire list of Hybrid discussions available and keep your posts in the most appropriate one.
Thanks
In Civic Hybrid, cylinder idling system has been added to improve efficiency of regenerative braking (and unlike VCM, it activates only during braking). That’s really the only difference. Doing the same in Jazz isn’t going to yield anything as there is no recuperation of energy via regenerative braking.
Civic Hybrid benefits from this recuperated energy and you can maximize gas mileage by ensuring that the system works as inteded (instead of being abrupt with brakes).
The Jazz/Fit’s 1.3 iDSI also lacks lean-burn and IIRC, it is not geared as tall.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
- go very slow to conserve fuel
- stay up with the pack in order to make green lights
I found that if I lag behind, with the way that traffic signals are programmed these days, I am prone to missing signals -- the 'pack' moves on up ahead of me, and eventually gets the green light, and the signal perceives a break in traffic, and changes back to red by the time I arrive.
After noticing this, I went back to my normal driving style, which keeps me driving at a moderate speed (within 5mph of the limit), but staying in touch with the pack, so that I make more lights.
I'm probably paying for this during acceleration, but possibly regaining it when I make a light that I would otherwise have missed.
I haven't really noticed any difference, mpg-wise. I'm still getting great mileage. But I was curious what the rest of you folks think?
Thanks!
I usually try to just accelerate as slowly as I can, but I respect the other speed demons enough that if I think I need to get out of someone's way, I change lanes.
If I see a red light coming up four or five blocks ahead, and I know for a fact it will be red when I get there, I just coast in as slow as the traffic behind me will allow.
If I see a light ahead that will only be green if I speed up a little bit to make the light, I do that too.
It's ALWAYS comical to see people ZOOM past me a few blocks from a light and then see them sitting beside me at the red light.....People are SO WASTEFUL.
My commute is fairly short, and I try to settle on either 34 mph or 37 mph where the speed limits are 40 and 45, and set my cruise in 5th gear.
When I'm not in my commute and the car is warmed up, I can get up to 70 mpg on flat stretches using these tactics.
Quasar4 has it right. Timing is the best way to approach city/suburban/heavily congested highway traffic. Let the rabbit’s trip the lights ahead and you keep your momentum while using their missteps as your own traffic cop guiding you through the obstacle.
A tip. I am sure most of you have heard that if you move a football half the distance to the goal line again and again and again and again forever you will never reach it right? The same applies to timing. You slow and keep slowing until the light turns and you come up on the pack’s bumper at what ever speed you had at the first sight of the green. Not only should you maintain your large and constantly changing buffer in traffic but LET THE RABBITS BUST THOSE LIGHTS. Take the maximum advantage of those that do not know any better and your FE will scream upwards. This works with both timed and car tripped lights so practice, practice, and practice some more.
If only I had a video camera and a fast server to host some of these techniques. 100 mpg while driving around town is available for any Insight 5-speed driver in warmer temps that use the Rabbit-timing technique to its extreme. Non-Hybrid’s can benefit even more given the lack of EV/Auto-stop while coasting up to the pack at just tripped reds. I cannot teach my wife (I have tried hundreds of times) because she will not pay attention but anyone that is keen on increasing their FE no matter what they drive will pick up the technique as fast as the first time they drive through an entire town and catch every green with the rabbits being busted at each and every one far out in front. This is not a steady speed technique but a timing one. As you move up and down the speedometer, keep the accelerator moving up and down as smooth as humanly possible. I have used the “Ball in a Bowl” analogy in other forums but for this one, just adjust the buffer to grab the lights as needed and your City Fuel Economy will start busting Highway FE in short order.
With all of the above, do not just pay attention to the light and traffic directly in front. It’s a chess game and you have the Queen so watch out 3 lights, both lanes, traffic to the right and left, just forward and far forward, as well as anything else you can take advantage of. I will try and explain about a few neat techniques for Mall lots in the next go around
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
My return commute from work is 1:00 - 2:00 in the morning, my last half is vacant rural highway.
I can keep 50% of my momentum in a hard right at one of these lights, drive 100 feet still in the ~80MPG range and a hard left to a short road that merges with the one I would have stopped at.
Another light was particularly troublesome as it is always red and located in the middle of an incline. Dead stop from this is a killer. I minimize that as well by turning Left before the light, and that leads to the cross-road. Again I keep 50% momentum as I turn Right, drive 1/4 mile and swing a wide Left at the green side of the light with plenty of momentum to overcome the incline.
Sometimes a little investigating around troublesome intersections can return more favorable conditions.
--I wouldn't exactly call these tricks, but my mall parking lot strategy is to park in the back of the lot where the open spaces are ample. I hate the stress of fighting for a close-up spot, the threat of door dings, and aimlessly circling the lot like a vulture. More often than not, I find that I save time (and I imagine fuel) by parking away from the pack and walking. Plus the extra exercise can't be bad.
Parking in the back is only one tip Use the parking lots varying heights to your advantage. In other words, find the highest spot of the lot in the back and coast into it. You will use the gained potential for accelerating out of the lot when you leave. Is you ICE running while you are parking? Mine is not. Also, park nose out. Why would anyone have to shift to reverse, back up while turning and then shift into Drive to drive away? Just pull out and be on your way when nose out. You have to be a little careful in case cars are filling up the lot as you won’t have clear access to your trunk for loading. The only ones usually parking in the back (unless the lot is packed) are other hypermilers or those with luxury cars and ricers. These type of owners do not usually want to park anywhere near you as you do not want to park anywhere near them. In my experience, this trick works 95% of the time. Another tip to avoid congestion in mall parking lots. If there is a back up on the main ring road, pull into the outer parking lot itself instead and bypass the congestion, stop sign, turn lanes, etc Slowly of course. Move back onto the ring road when clear. You can bypass minutes of idling with this tip in many cases.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes