Hybrid Tips Optimizing mileage

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Comments

  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:

     

    ___We use it as cover gas on top of some of our more critical liquid tanks as well.

     

    ___Supposedly, N2 helps maintain a consistent pressure as temperatures increases/decreases (race cars use it for this reason), it supposedly holds pressure longer although I don’t know why just yet, but most importantly, it should help reduce oxidation of the rubber from the inside of the tire. Again, big deal given what the exterior walls and tread is exposed to ;-)

     

    ___50 + #’s all around and a check every few weeks should suffice …

     

    ___Good Luck

     

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Anyone know about the recent story in the news about having the air removed from your tires and having hydrogen put in? The story went on to say you will get better mileage, longer lasting tires, and less damage to the inner rim.

    Does anyone know if this was true?


     

    I doubt anyone would want to have another Hindenberg. Imagine if you have a flat and there is some sort of a spark, kaboom, you are in flames!!! "Oh the humanity...!!!"

     

    I know Costco fills tires with Nitrogen. Other than slightly lower effect temprature has on pressure with Nitrogen I see no other benfit. Tires are certainly not the size of a blimp to lower the un-ladden weight when filled with Nitrogen or Hydrogen.
  • timber104timber104 Member Posts: 24
    Hello,

     

    In reading most things about gas mileage, everyone who has a Prius is getting less than EPA says it should. But does anyone ever get the 55 to 60 MPG since they bought there car?

     

    I have found that the EPA, does there tests in a garage and it is hard to get the same results as they do. All of my vehicles have gotten better & worse than EPA has said it should. When I take my 4Runner on a trip and do 400 plus miles, I have gotten over 26.54 miles per gallon at 65 MPH. Far more than rated by EPA, but also get less than 11 MPG around town, when it is very cold 0 to -5 degrees & 4-6 mile trips, far less than EPA.

     

    I would like to know what people are really getting with there Prius's on an average, not the best or worse.

     

    Please let me know what you are getting, and did you think you would be getting better?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    49 MPG average in real world driving.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    The database over at greenhybrid shows 99 owners of the Prius II are averaging 48MPG. It looks like about half are getting over 50MPG, and 10 are getting over 55MPG. The highest 3 numbers are 63.6, 62.5, and 60.3MPG.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    The material (the "inner liner") that keeps air inside your tire is polyisobutylene (butyl rubber). It is used because the diffusion rate of nitrogen and oxygen through the material is very low (i.e. the air stays in your tires for a long time, months). Hydrogen is the lightest element and would make the car lighter (less than 1 pound lighter if all four tires were filled), however, the diffusion rate of hydrogen is much higher through the tire inner liner. For a NASCAR race, one pound might mean something. For everyday drivers, the aggravation of filling up your tires with a dangerous gas every other day would not justify the very slight benefits. Most of that information is just hype. And no, your car will not float into the atmosphere if you don't anchor it down.
  • tennisbird86tennisbird86 Member Posts: 5
    Just as a minor correction, the 48MPG average is both the median and the mean, so half are above and half are below that 48MPG mark. Also, judging from the boxplot, 50% of Prius II owners are within 2-3 of 48MPG.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    - Supposedly, N2 helps maintain a consistent pressure as temperatures increases/decreases (race cars use it for this reason), it supposedly holds pressure longer although I don’t know why just yet, but most importantly, it should help reduce oxidation of the rubber from the inside of the tire.

     

    me: well that's news to me too. In engineering classes, I was always taught: Pressure1 x volume1 x temperature1 = Pressure2 x volume2 x temp2. If the tire isn't changing volume, then changes in pressure and temp. are directly and equally related. Pressure is simply a measurement of the average energy of the gas molecules in the tire. If the vehicle is not moving, the tire will then lose energy and drop in temp. to reach equilibrium with the environment.

     

    The point is that unless you want to be very, very precise and use a fugacity correction for pressure of a certain gas, all gases basically perform the same in regards to changes in P, V, and T.

     

    Looking at another link I see that the reason nitrogen was used was because, the original air had moisture in it, and that makes the difference. But there should be no difference between nitrogen and air, if both are "dried".

     
    I do agree that H2 being a smaller molecule will escape quicker from the tire. The risk level of using H2 is quite high compared to air or N2, and would never be commonly available because of risk and cost.
  • jpricejprice Member Posts: 58
    <In engineering classes, I was always taught: Pressure1 x volume1 x temperature1 = Pressure2 x volume2 x temp2.>

     

    Gosh, I hope you were taught P1xV1/T1=P2xV2/T2.

    Or else I hope you didn't go into engineering...

     

    jprice
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Yes what I posted would definitely be in error if I was speaking of changing the conditions of 1 gas in a tire. You're equations are correct.

     

    But, what I was pointing out with the equation is that if you put the same amount of molecules of 2 different gases in a tire, they are going to react similarly to changes in temperature and pressure, regardless of what they are. Ideal Gas Law PV = nRT; whether 1 = nitrogen or 2 = air.
  • jpricejprice Member Posts: 58
    <if you put the same amount of molecules of 2 different gases in a tire, they are going to react similarly to changes in temperature and pressure, regardless of what they are. Ideal Gas Law PV = nRT; whether 1 = nitrogen or 2 = air. >

     

    I agree completely with that; I just wanted to make it clear that the temperature effect is inverse - i.e., if V is constant, P/T is constant.

     

    My previous message was perhaps too harsh; I meant no offense.

     

    jprice
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    I'm not sure about all this talk of exotic gasses for tires: I just check mine once a week and be sure to change over to winter air in November. (Poor joke)

     

    -Steve
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    The air you put in your tire already has ~75% nitrogen in it. I find it hard to believe the extra 25% makes any noticeable difference. Sounds like a scam to stuff garage pockets (like the engine flush & fuel system flush).

     

    troy
  • kpd651kpd651 Member Posts: 1
    The real world mileage on my 04 Prius has been a story of direct relationship of temp. to gas mileage. But I understand this is the story of any vehicle. In the warmer temps. my Prius will atest to 55-60 MPG. As the temp drops so does the MPG to upper 30's. So far the MPG has bottomed at 38 MPG with 8 - 12 degree temps. And re-enters the 40+ MPG as the temp. rises to the twenties and upward. I have no complaints on the MPG.

     

    I do wish Toyota would have designed vinyl or hard plastic on the arm rests & console cover.

    And the dash does have a bit to much reflection in the windshield.

     

    While the car is NO "screamer", it is fun and very practical. I really enjoy my Prius.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote kpd651-"And the dash does have a bit to much reflection in the windshield."-end quote

     

    You could reduce or eliminate that glare problem by purchasing a DashMat in carpet or velour to change the color and reflectivity of the dash.

     

    That will also protect the dash from harmful UV that can crack the plastics over time....

     

    FYI.....
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Or use low shine vinyl cleaner instead of Armor all. I don't know about Toyota, but Honda has one "specifically" made for a Honda at the dealer. It is very low shine. Most of Honda's dashboards come from factory treated with "Honda Low shine Plastic protector," In fact, Honda will void warranty on cracked plastics is Armor All was used instead of "Honda protectant"
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    I clean all the interior plastic parts with a 10 inch towel damped in a bowl of clean, clear fresh warm water every 10-15K miles. Still looks factory clean. No products to buy.

     

    Anyone know how to get the scratches out of the plastic?
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    what does this have to do with optimizing mileage?

     

    Any further postings off-topic will get deleted.

     

    Thanks!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    what does this have to do with optimizing mileage?

     

    I think it started with polishing the car to get better aerodynamics thus, better mileage. Then drifted to keeping the car in top shape inside and out. I found it useful...
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    hey - that's a stretch!
  • timber104timber104 Member Posts: 24
    Hello All,

     

    I just spoke to my dealer about the new Prius that I will be getting soon. I ordered it the First week of November and should expect it the third week of April at the latest. I asked her about the fuel concerns seen here. She told me that since Prius's are under battery power in cold weather they should get less MPG, as well as the fuel tank shrinks under colder temp., and you will find that a 11 gallon tank in the summer will become a 9.5 +/- in the winter under colder conditions. She told me about someone who figured there own MPG and did not look at the computer & would only fill the car when it would need over 10.0 gallons of gas & during a very cold time in Northern New Jersey, he ran out of gas. When he re fueled it only took 9.5 gallons.

     

    I dont know if this is a crock of crap for me or is true, but it did sound good to me. Also, she told me that Toyota will have the fob in more cars this year & even more so next year & plan on fazing out the key as we know it today.

     

    Also, by August all the waiting lists will be filled & by December 2005, there will no longer be a need for a waiting list, all dealers will have some in stock normally.

     

    Let me know your thoughts.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I've seen this posting elsewhere and was quite skeptical. I spoke to a Toyota representative about this since my thermal expansion calculation indicated a maximum variation in fuel capacity of about 0.6 gallons. The representative indicated that thermal expansion equations can be used and the wildly fluctuating fuel tank capacity is not true (call 1-800-331-4331 directed from the toyota.com web site "contact us" section). The representative spoke with some Toyota engineers and they indicated that the battery was most likely requiring a larger charge due to the cold weather (i.e. the gas engine works a lot more in cold weather). The increased usage of the gas engine in cold weather was listed as the primary reason for the decline in mileage in very cold climates.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    The lower MPG in the winter are due to:

     

    1) Batteries are less efficient at low temps.

    2) You need to warm up the engine for it to be the most efficient.

    3) Rolling resistance of the slush and snow is greater than rain or dry roads.

     

    Gasoline, being a liquid is probably more prone to thermal volumetric changes than metal or plastic since they are solids. Theoretically, you could get more gas for free in the coldest months than in warmest, because of the gas station's meters are calibrated to 70°F. Colder gasoline is more dense, thus for the same volume you get more gasoline.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    Good point about the gasoline. The 0.6 gallon fuel tank differential assumes a 100 C temperature differential and isothermal gas (i.e. stored in an underground tank that keeps the temperature constant regardless of the above ground weather). In reality, the gasoline expands and contracts in parallel with the fuel tank, reducing the net expansion/contraction to almost a negligible level. Any argument about a reduced amount of gasoline going into the tank in cold weather is probably more related to the fuel gauge/sensor and not the fuel tank capacity.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    I thought NiMH batteries LIKE cold weather?

     

    troy
  • stevedebistevedebi LAMember Posts: 4,098
    Batteries STORE better in the cold, but PERFORM best in warm environments. They use chemical reactions, which always work better when heat is applied.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    I've always heard that they also include a kind of de-icing agent to the fuel in the winter. I've heard this additive reduces MPG.

     

    I remember back when I lived in Minneapolis that occasionally my fuel line would freeze up @ about 30 below and would have to dump a product into the tank to clear it, and a puff or two with a can of either.

    (In the carb of course! :)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I wonder who the oil companies paid off to keep the 84 mpg Capri off the road in 1979?

    "According to the old clipping: &#147;In tests recently at Daytona Beach Community College, Moody&#146;s 1979 Mercury Capri test car got an astounding 84 miles to a gallon. The skeptical test supervisor, Bill Gordon, who has supervised Environmental Protection Agency fuel economy tests before, couldn&#146;t believe it. &#145;It is the car of the century,&#146; Gordon said enthusiastically after the test.&#148;

    The article&#146;s description of the engine sounds confused. Moody is quoted as saying, &#147;We took a four-cylinder Perkins block, converted it to diesel fuel, turbocharged it, and built a special clutch, transmission, and rear-end setup.&#148;

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=- 9154
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    "I wonder who the oil companies paid off to keep the 84 mpg Capri off the road in 1979?"

    .

    Nothing. But due to emissions restrictions (catalyst in the 80s, LEV standard in the 90s), the engine had to re-tooled, re-tuned, and re-worked.

    Not it only gets 50 mpg. It sells in Europe.

    troy ;-)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Do you mean &#147;Ford Ka&#148;? Converting Imperial gallons to Standard, here are a few numbers from UK market. Notice that Ford Ka does very poorly in urban rating. The numbers are from Ford and Honda (UK) websites, and all vehicles equipped with AC (Ka has it as an option) and manual transmission.

    Ford Ka (3-door HB)
    1.3-liter, 70 HP
    26/46 mpg
    0-62: 13.7s
    31-62 mph: 15.2s
    CO2: 154 g/km

    Honda Jazz (5-door HB)
    1.3-liter, 83 HP
    32/46 mpg
    0-62: 13.3s
    31-62 mph: NA
    CO2: 137 g/km

    Honda Insight (3-door HB)
    1.0-liter IMA, 76 HP
    57/78 mpg
    0-62: 12.5s
    31-62 mph: NA
    CO2: 80 g/km

    Honda Civic Hybrid (Sedan)
    1.3-liter IMA, 90 HP
    39/55 mpg
    0-62: 12.8s
    31-62 mph: NA
    CO2: 116 g/km

    It is important to note that Civic Hybrid and Jazz share the same ICE (1.3-liter 8-valve I-4 SOHC i-DSI), with IMA added to Civic Hybrid. There is added size and weight, and performance, with improved fuel economy.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    The Jazz & the Civic Hybrid do NOT share the same engine. The Hybrid engine has added features like inactive cylinders during coasting. Also the obvious difference:
    83 vs. 90 hp
    proves they're not the same engine.

    .

    Eliminate stops. Eliminate wasted energy.

    Like an interstate. You can drive across the country without encountering a stop sign, which means you don't waste energy via friction braking (except for refueling).

    If we could make all roads like interstates, and eliminate the wasteful stopping, overall MPG would increase.

    ASIDE: I recall driving on the interstate that run parallel to Route 66. At the end of the day, I stopped my insight to refuel. A husband & wife walked up to me and said, "We passed you several times today, and yet you still beat us here."

    I replied, "Yes, because I can drive 1000 miles on a single tank, and don't need to waste time stopping."

    ;-) troy
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    HCH cylinder deactivation (three of four cylinders) takes effect only during regenerative braking (to reduce pumping losses and increase efficiency of regenerative braking). This is the only reason &#147;VTEC&#148; exists on HCH version. Other than that, the engine is identical to Jazz power plant, only that it motivates a car that is 400 lb heavier.

    90 HP is with IMA in HCH, and in case of Jazz, there is no IMA so just 83 HP. These are European specifications.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    The fact that Civic can coast with only 1 active piston indicates it is NOT the same engine as the Jazz. The elimination of engine pumping helps improve MPG (less energy wasted).

    Plus, different bodies/different aero-drag.

    The only way you can compare is to have *everything* identical between 2 cars, except one is non-hybrid & the other is hybrid.

    troy
  • williams3williams3 Member Posts: 5
    To the experts:
    I see that the Prius City MPG is better than Highway MPG. Is this a perpetually sustainable condition or does a lower MPG eventually occur due to the need to recharge the batteries? In other words, if you theoretically mirror the EPA City mode for say .... 5000 miles would the overall average still meet the EPA result or does somehow the beginning condition of a significantly charged battery skew the result of EPA testing? Maybe a better way of asking is taking the absurd example of a hybrid vehicle with a huge battery which runs the EPA test cycle 99% via battery supply alone and only the last 1% by ICE and then claiming a huge MPG rating. I know this is absurd but you get the point of what I'm asking about the Prius. Maybe the EPA mode requires the beginning and ending battery charge to be identical in order to factor out pre-existing stored energy?
  • stevewastevewa Member Posts: 203
    Yes it is perpetually sustainable. The big factor is, how long do you drive in the city? You don't start getting those numbers until the engine is fully warmed. The Prius system is tuned for driving in the streets of Tokyo...most cars sold in the US are tuned for suburban freeways.

    If you are making short drives in city conditions you will not get the EPA numbers. If you are spending 20 minutes or more on the road each time, you have a good shot at getting the numbers.
  • stevewastevewa Member Posts: 203
    The issue is the plastic bladder in the fuel tank, its elasticity is lower in cold temperatures. In warmer weather you can get it to expand more, so it will hold more fuel.

    That doesn't change the fuel economy, the issues around keeping the engine and catalyst warm in cold conditions, as well as variations in fuel composition (especially in locations that use gasahol (E10) in wintertime) are a contributor too.
  • jeff13jeff13 Member Posts: 1
    Most of my driving is highway miles and I average 50-53 miles per gallon by the end of the tank. If I start off with a new tank of gas in the city and drive several miles in the city, it takes awhile for the gas mileage to build up to the 50+ miles on the highway. I have found that using 93 octane gas greatly increases the mileage and had on one tank of gas, at least, as much as a ten mile per gallon difference.
  • railroadjamesrailroadjames Member Posts: 560
    I've had my Prius for 13 months and it has performed excellent. I have found winter to reduce milage by approx. 6-8 MPG's. Take your pick of reasons....winter blend gas.....cold temps requiring the ICE engine to run more to bring temp up....etc. I recently had my TSB(recall) on the gas nozzle & meter sys. replaced and now have confidence in my gauge. I average 4oo-470 miles to a tank and THAT keeps me smiling. Anyone around here that doesn't think that gas & oil are going up? Wake up folks. It's time to change...your driving habits and your cars.
    Culliganman(make mine hybrid)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I wonder who the oil companies paid off to keep the 84 mpg Capri off the road in 1979?

    "According to the old clipping: &#147;In tests recently at Daytona Beach Community College, Moody&#146;s 1979 Mercury Capri test car got an astounding 84 miles to a gallon. The skeptical test supervisor, Bill Gordon, who has supervised Environmental Protection Agency fuel economy tests before, couldn&#146;t believe it. &#145;It is the car of the century,&#146; Gordon said enthusiastically after the test.&#148;

    The article&#146;s description of the engine sounds confused. Moody is quoted as saying, &#147;We took a four-cylinder Perkins block, converted it to diesel fuel, turbocharged it, and built a special clutch, transmission, and rear-end setup.&#148;

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=- - 9154


    The magasine had a sideline explaining why it wouldn;t have worked. Super high compression ratio, and very high rates of boost will produce desired fuel economy with maybe 1000 miles of engine life.

    We went out for a test drive. The car pulled like hell. It pinged like hell, too, and busted a piston early in the acceleration runs.
    Would you like a car that is good on gas, but needs engine work every week?
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Anything on taxation was moved to the Taxation by the mile? discussion.

    The Biodiesel post was moved to the Biodisel Vehicles discussion.

    PLEASE look at the entire list of Hybrid discussions available and keep your posts in the most appropriate one.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    is about optimizing mileage for HYBRIDS - driving techniques, etc. It isn't about economical cars (non-hybrids) of the past. Such posts have been removed.

    Thanks
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Civic Hybrid and Jazz, both share the same engine identified by Honda as: L13A. It is a 1.3-liter SOHC 2-valve/cylinder i-DSI (Intelligent Dual Sequential Ignition) design.

    In Civic Hybrid, cylinder idling system has been added to improve efficiency of regenerative braking (and unlike VCM, it activates only during braking). That&#146;s really the only difference. Doing the same in Jazz isn&#146;t going to yield anything as there is no recuperation of energy via regenerative braking.

    Civic Hybrid benefits from this recuperated energy and you can maximize gas mileage by ensuring that the system works as inteded (instead of being abrupt with brakes).
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi All:

    The Jazz/Fit&#146;s 1.3 iDSI also lacks lean-burn and IIRC, it is not geared as tall.

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • cablackcablack Member Posts: 45
    In city driving, going from traffic signal to traffic signal, it seems like you have a couple of options:

    - go very slow to conserve fuel
    - stay up with the pack in order to make green lights

    I found that if I lag behind, with the way that traffic signals are programmed these days, I am prone to missing signals -- the 'pack' moves on up ahead of me, and eventually gets the green light, and the signal perceives a break in traffic, and changes back to red by the time I arrive.

    After noticing this, I went back to my normal driving style, which keeps me driving at a moderate speed (within 5mph of the limit), but staying in touch with the pack, so that I make more lights.

    I'm probably paying for this during acceleration, but possibly regaining it when I make a light that I would otherwise have missed.

    I haven't really noticed any difference, mpg-wise. I'm still getting great mileage. But I was curious what the rest of you folks think?

    Thanks!
  • quasar4quasar4 Member Posts: 110
    --It's not about going slow in the city --it's about timing. If you find that going with the pack allows you to avoid red lights at a safe speed, then by all means do it. Unfortunately where I live, the "pack" mentality is to hurry up and wait (i.e., they bolt from one red light in a mad dash to get to the next red light). This makes it even more difficult for drivers like me who would prefer to keep their momentum going, but now have to brake or stop to avoid driving the car up the speed demons' tail pipes. Their speed-up/slow-down antics actually cause the traffic jams they despise so much. If they only knew...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, with a manual tranny 2004 HCH, here's my take:

    I usually try to just accelerate as slowly as I can, but I respect the other speed demons enough that if I think I need to get out of someone's way, I change lanes.

    If I see a red light coming up four or five blocks ahead, and I know for a fact it will be red when I get there, I just coast in as slow as the traffic behind me will allow.

    If I see a light ahead that will only be green if I speed up a little bit to make the light, I do that too.

    It's ALWAYS comical to see people ZOOM past me a few blocks from a light and then see them sitting beside me at the red light.....People are SO WASTEFUL.

    My commute is fairly short, and I try to settle on either 34 mph or 37 mph where the speed limits are 40 and 45, and set my cruise in 5th gear.

    When I'm not in my commute and the car is warmed up, I can get up to 70 mpg on flat stretches using these tactics.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Cablack:

    Quasar4 has it right. Timing is the best way to approach city/suburban/heavily congested highway traffic. Let the rabbit&#146;s trip the lights ahead and you keep your momentum while using their missteps as your own traffic cop guiding you through the obstacle.

    A tip. I am sure most of you have heard that if you move a football half the distance to the goal line again and again and again and again … forever you will never reach it right? The same applies to timing. You slow and keep slowing until the light turns and you come up on the pack&#146;s bumper at what ever speed you had at the first sight of the green. Not only should you maintain your large and constantly changing buffer in traffic but LET THE RABBITS BUST THOSE LIGHTS. Take the maximum advantage of those that do not know any better and your FE will scream upwards. This works with both timed and car tripped lights so practice, practice, and practice some more.

    If only I had a video camera and a fast server to host some of these techniques. 100 mpg while driving around town is available for any Insight 5-speed driver in warmer temps that use the Rabbit-timing technique to its extreme. Non-Hybrid&#146;s can benefit even more given the lack of EV/Auto-stop while coasting up to the pack at just tripped reds. I cannot teach my wife (I have tried hundreds of times) because she will not pay attention but anyone that is keen on increasing their FE no matter what they drive will pick up the technique as fast as the first time they drive through an entire town and catch every green with the rabbits being busted at each and every one far out in front. This is not a steady speed technique but a timing one. As you move up and down the speedometer, keep the accelerator moving up and down as smooth as humanly possible. I have used the &#147;Ball in a Bowl&#148; analogy in other forums but for this one, just adjust the buffer to grab the lights as needed and your City Fuel Economy will start busting Highway FE in short order.

    With all of the above, do not just pay attention to the light and traffic directly in front. It&#146;s a chess game and you have the Queen so watch out 3 lights, both lanes, traffic to the right and left, just forward and far forward, as well as anything else you can take advantage of. I will try and explain about a few neat techniques for Mall lots in the next go around …

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    On the flip side what to do where there isn't other drivers to trip the lights? Sometimes there's other options as well. For example:

    My return commute from work is 1:00 - 2:00 in the morning, my last half is vacant rural highway.

    I can keep 50% of my momentum in a hard right at one of these lights, drive 100 feet still in the ~80MPG range and a hard left to a short road that merges with the one I would have stopped at.

    Another light was particularly troublesome as it is always red and located in the middle of an incline. Dead stop from this is a killer. I minimize that as well by turning Left before the light, and that leads to the cross-road. Again I keep 50% momentum as I turn Right, drive 1/4 mile and swing a wide Left at the green side of the light with plenty of momentum to overcome the incline.

    Sometimes a little investigating around troublesome intersections can return more favorable conditions.
  • quasar4quasar4 Member Posts: 110
    ...I will try and explain about a few neat techniques for Mall lots in the next go around …

    --I wouldn't exactly call these tricks, but my mall parking lot strategy is to park in the back of the lot where the open spaces are ample. I hate the stress of fighting for a close-up spot, the threat of door dings, and aimlessly circling the lot like a vulture. More often than not, I find that I save time (and I imagine fuel) by parking away from the pack and walking. Plus the extra exercise can't be bad.
     
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Quasar4:

    Parking in the back is only one tip … Use the parking lots varying heights to your advantage. In other words, find the highest spot of the lot in the back and coast into it. You will use the gained potential for accelerating out of the lot when you leave. Is you ICE running while you are parking? Mine is not. Also, park nose out. Why would anyone have to shift to reverse, back up while turning and then shift into Drive to drive away? Just pull out and be on your way when nose out. You have to be a little careful in case cars are filling up the lot as you won&#146;t have clear access to your trunk for loading. The only ones usually parking in the back (unless the lot is packed) are other hypermilers or those with luxury cars and ricers. These type of owners do not usually want to park anywhere near you as you do not want to park anywhere near them. In my experience, this trick works 95% of the time. Another tip to avoid congestion in mall parking lots. If there is a back up on the main ring road, pull into the outer parking lot itself instead and bypass the congestion, stop sign, turn lanes, etc … Slowly of course. Move back onto the ring road when clear. You can bypass minutes of idling with this tip in many cases.

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
This discussion has been closed.