Acura RDX

betulikit · October 2005

I hope Acura breaks with tradition and puts an engine tuned for regular gas in the RDX product.

varmint · October 2005

According (pun not intended) to the Acura exec who showed the concept RDX, the vehicle is based on a new light truck platform.

Maybe new means completely new from the ground up. Or maybe it just means a platform which has not been used for trucks before. The general consensus is that it will be a new variant on the Global Mid-Size car platform (Accord, TSX, TL, etc.).

Personally, I'm thinking/hoping it will most closely resemble the TSX underpinnings. That chassis has far more performance potential than the Civic/RSX platform. Real Time Racing chose the TSX for their race cars (they still have one or two RSXs). Wining the SCCA Manufacturer's Championship kinda validates that choice.

bodble2 · October 2005

Sorry, I see no resemblance whatsoever. However, I do see a hint of X5 in the C pillar and rear window, and the belt-line!

redirector · October 2005

Why not go with the V6 hybrid featured in the Honda Accord Hybrid?

3.0L 255 hp (05 version) 232 ft/lbs torque.
ULEV-II
Regular Unleaded gas

The accord hybrid weighs 3501 lbs. EPA 29/37 MPG so configured.

For comparison, the heaviest CR-V weighs 3494... and 181 inches long.
MDX weighs 4500 lbs, 188 inches long.

RD-X is "7 inches shorter than MDX"... per Edmunds RDX Future Vehicle page... which puts it roughly equal in length to the CR-V... give it a wider track, more features, noise insulation, heavier engine, transmission, larger wheels/tires etc, lets push up the RD-X about 4000 lbs.

I think the Accord Hybrid V6 would be a good match... perhaps they'll tweak the base V6 or update the IMA and improve the 232 ft/lbs torque. Mileage might not contend with EPA estimates for Mercury Mariner (31ish MPG), but could still be at/above 30 on the highway.

I'd be a buyer of this configuration at $33k without Nav.

Full disclosure: I owned an '04 FX35 with the Sport 20"s... 280 HP/270 ft-lbs Torque... 189 inches, 4110 lbs (RWD). 17/23 MPG... I paid roughly $36k for a nice Sport-Touring RWD version sans nav... but when gas hit $3 I was hurting. City MPG often at/below 15...

A Hybrid RD-X at $33-35k and 25+ MPG could re-set the agenda for Lux/Sport SUV's.

ateixeira · October 2005

That's my guess. They can't get enough batteries.

And while hybrids are hot now, they still make up a tiny percentage of the market. This might limit the audience.

-juice

varmint · October 2005

While a hybrid would be a good option, they couldn't get away will selling only that one configuration. Costs are too high... Market is too small. They'd need a more traditional engine, as well. That almost doubles the costs of production.

This is supposed to be a relatively low volume vehicle to begin with. So they've got to make money on every unit they sell. Hybrids don't do that. Honda can't afford to build a loss-leader on this platform.

redirector · October 2005

Interesting... I remember one of the limiting factors for the growth in things like laptops and cell phones was battery life, and battery availability.

Supply problems!

Volume would help, but they need substantial capacity, and batteries are needed for everything, these days. Good investment, probably.

That Honda V6 Hybrid, with variations, could be used in lots of Honda/Acura vehicles as an option, provided they can get the supply issues worked out. There is enough demand, even at premium prices, for the variant.

What's the latest on RD-X launch date? Anyone actually pre-order or reserve one at a dealership?

ateixeira · October 2005

Toyota has a capacity issue and the NEC Lamilion technology caught their eye. Next thing you know, they've purchased an 8.7% stake in Fuji Heavy Industries (who also owns Subaru) from GM to be first in line for all that supply of batteries.

Right now hybrids use NiMH but pretty soon they'll be using Li-ion batteries like the ones FHI makes.

-juice

rihoops · October 2005

I'm tired of guessing about this %$#^ car. I bought a TSX because I was so tired of waiting for it to come out. If it is overpriced for a honda product, it won't sell because of the glut of MDX's on dealer lots.

ateixeira · October 2005

Take it easy, consider a switch to decaf. :P

Acura is happy, you bought one anyway! The new model wouldn't have the discounts, and next time you're shopping again they might, so no biggie.

-juice

avoguy · November 2005

avoguy · November 2005

All this talk has whetted my appetite. If it isn't too far off I may just wait to see the RDX before I buy another SUV. Can anyone tell me when it might be available? Thanks

varmint · November 2005

Next Summer.

ateixeira · November 2005

I wonder which show they'll use for the debut?

LA is usually first but it's moving to fall.

Detroit is early Jan.

Chicago comes next, I forget the dates.

NY is usually in April.

So we should see the production model debut at one of those shows. The US will likely be the most important market for the RDX, so I predict it will debut here.

-juice

jchan2 · November 2005

Detroit. Just a scientific wild guess.
I wouldn't rule out Chicago or NY.

sockpuppet1969 · November 2005

As much as I love the idea of the upcoming RDX, we could not wait any longer and just took delivery of an '06 CR-V SE. Maybe we will get the RDX for our next car...

ateixeira · November 2005

Congrats. Be sure to join the CR-V discussions.

-juice

sockpuppet1969 · November 2005

Thanks. Already there...

jrynn · November 2005

Anyone else wondering why Acura bothered to put up a special section on the RDX on their website when they don't even bother (even every one or two months(!!) to add any new information, photos, news....?

jchan2 · November 2005

I think its to get people to know that they are in the process of coming out with an entry level luxury SUV.

Its just to get some buzz out there. Buzz turns into interest. Interest turns into sales. Sales turns into $$$.

jrynn · November 2005

New information is what creates "buzz." Posting a video and some photos that haven't changed for months does not create buzz. It creates frustration. Take a look at a number of the posts above where potential buyers have given up and bought other vehicles. :confuse:

varmint · November 2005

They've always been very tight with information on new models or redesigned models. Given their success in recent years, I can't really fault the strategy.

Essentially, you want the buzz to peak when the vehicle goes on sale. If it peaks before the vehicle is available, people get tired and go elsewhere. (Chrysler is good at messing this up.) Frankly, I think the mistake Acura made was showing that near-production concept too soon.

vpbran · November 2005

I've been interested/excited about the RDX since seeing it in Detroit last January. Since then Mazda has announced the Crossport and now the Audi Q3:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108020

If true, this market space just got a lot more competitive. It might be whoever gets to market first wins the segment.

ateixeira · November 2005

The CX7 will be bigger, sharing a platform with the next Aviator. Lincoln actually has spy pics out there if you want to get an idea of the size. But it will offer 3 rows, so I don't see it competing with the RDX.

There are rumors of a CX5 to replace the Tribute in the lineup, since the CX7 will be priced much higher. Is that what you meant?

Q3 should be interesting. Supposedly VW will come out with a Golf Plus-based SUV for the US, but Audi denies their Q3 will be based on that platform. We'll see.

-juice

varmint · November 2005

From the link...

"What this means to you: Acura's RDX won't be alone for long in the premium compact SUV segment  not if Audi approves the proposed Q3."

I guess Edmunds has already forgotten about the BMW X3?

Anyway, the Audi does look like a competitor. I just hope (for their sake) they make it a 5 door instead of the 3 door concept shown years ago.

Ditto what Juice wrote about the Mazda. It's a competitor for the Murano, Highlander, and Freestyle crowd. Ford already offers a (weak) premium soft-roader in the form of the Mariner. They also have a more hard-core premium compact SUV in the Freelander. Not sure they would let Mazda move into the premium market just yet.

baggs32 · November 2005

Ford already offers a (weak) premium soft-roader in the form of the Mariner. They also have a more hard-core premium compact SUV in the Freelander. Not sure they would let Mazda move into the premium market just yet.

Not to mention they will also have the Volvo XC50 next summer. It and the new Freelander will be based on the C1 (Euro Focus/Mazda3/Volvo S40) platform and compete well with the RDX.

XC50

Land Rover

varmint · November 2005

Cool. I hadn't seen news of the new Freelander. It doesn't seem much like a traditional Rover and I'm sure hard core fans will bash it for that reason. But it'll probably sell a whole lot better than the current model.

nowakj66 · November 2005

My local dealer told me the RDX is due out in April, 2006. They hope to see it introduced at the Detroit auto show in January.

ateixeira · November 2005

The XC50 looks nice in that sketch. The XC90 has the best residual values in its class, so that would keep cost of ownership down if they can apply that magic to the smaller one.

I really don't like the current Freelander, just about anything would be an improvement.

-juice

baggs32 · November 2005

I really don't like the current Freelander, just about anything would be an improvement.

I'm with you on that. I liked the price but it was too small and underpowered for my taste.

I'd like to get something slightly larger and classier than our Escape next year so the RDX, XC50, and Freelander are looking pretty good right now. Hard to beat the XC90 new MY leases though. $3k down will get you a base '06 XC90 for $439/month right now. Not too shabby for what you get.

Anyone have some better pics of the RDX. It's hard to get a real feel for it from the over-the-top concept and show pics. I'm hoping the interior becomes more "normal" for production because that show model's center stack has got to go. (Insert barfing emotorcon here)

ateixeira · November 2005

I'm not into leasing because I keep my vehicles long-term (7+ years), but with that much down you can get a Tribeca for about $100 less per month.

Still, I hate to have nothing to show for your 3 years' worth of payments at the end of it all.

-juice

jimc16 · November 2005

Speaking of competition, it seems like we are all ignoring the 800 pound gorilla sitting in the corner, the 2006 Rav4. 269 HP in a medium sized SUV. One of the best car builders, probably an affordable package, and one of the first to the market.

jrynn · November 2005

Unless the RAV4 rates high in the "fun to drive" category, it's not really aimed at the same market, is it?

baggs32 · November 2005

Still, I hate to have nothing to show for your 3 years' worth of payments at the end of it all.

Understandable. I hate driving the same car for more than two years with all the choices out there now. My wife and I have resigned to that fact and we're going to try leasing for a while. Right now it probably saves us money to lease believe it or not.

Of course, that'll all change when we upgrade to a new house after the kids are out of daycare.

jchan2 · November 2005

ain't for me either because I'm a heavy driver who puts a TON of miles per year on cars.

ateixeira · November 2005

For its class, the RAV4 is agile and fun. Question is, will this new one add more sport to the equation? Or luxury?

On paper it definitely has the goods, but often Toyotas are tuned for comfort, i.e. soft vs. sporty. And they have to position it below the Highlander.

You can already get a Saturn Vue Redline or a Forester XT, both about as quick with an automatic as Toyota's estimates, and the XT is even quicker with the 5 speed manual, something Toyota will not offer with the V6 (sad omission).

I expect the RDX to be smaller and sportier, plus a lot more luxurious. Still, RAV4 will be a tempting alternative for those on a budget, especially since it gets 20/27 (AWD) or 20/28 on regular fuel with the V6.

Right now both would be on my short list.

-juice

varmint · November 2005

Agreed. It takes more than a powerful engine to compete in the (near) luxury class. The simple fact that most RAV4s will be sold with I4s will prevent anyone from giving the V6 version much prestige. The V6 will have the same styling as the base RAV4, the same interior, the same dealership, and essentially the same driving experience.

Don't get me wrong, I think the new RAV4 looks like the best attempt at cracking the small SUV market. They finally got the size right and the V6 will give it some appeal with the power-hungry buyers in the market.

2moreyears · November 2005

I agree that the sketches of the XC50 are attractive, and in a way prefer it to the styling of the RDX. But can it be afforded? I have found the opposite, Volvos tend to have the worst residual. If you price identical leases for the MDX and the XC90, you can pay anywhere from 100-200 more per month for the XC90. Would this be the case if it had "the best residual values in it's class"? In late 2006/early 2007 when I am in the market for a new lease, chances are the RDX will be easier on my wallet than the XC50, or whatever the competitor will be.

Oh, and if im wrong, and the XC90 really does have the best residual in its class, can you please post your source, because Volvo makes an excellent product (especially the XC90), and would love to be able to get one.

bodble2 · November 2005

From the sketches, those will be the lookers in the class. Better than X3 and RDX, IMO. From what has been shown, I don't like the look of the new RAV4, as styling efforts from Toyotaland continues to be a crapshoot.

jrynn · November 2005

"IMO" is how looks have to be judged.

I'd have ranked them:

1 - RDX
2(tie) - X3
2(tie) - XC50
4 - Freelander (far behind, since I don't care for the Land Rover "box")

I have trouble seeing the RAV4 still fitting in the "small" SUV category, since it's now been stretched to the same length as the Highlander.

ateixeira · November 2005

Depends, if Acura is willing to drop the original sale price, and gamble on a higher residual, that's up to them, but then they are gambling and will have to eat any shortfall in actual resale value.

Volvo might be sticking to a higher initial price, so the residual (as a % of sticker) would indeed be better.

I don't recall the course, was it JDP? I forget. After the New York auto show I basically got to be a "fly on the wall" at a press event in Manhattan and heard that. The CNN link I had no longer works, sorry.

-juice

iancar · December 2005

I just wonder if MDX and RSX are going to be redesigned too. Since last generation odyssey started with model 1999, and MDX started with model 2001. In logical sense, MDX will be redesigned as model 2007 (late 2006?). But Acura had never introduced more than two vehicles per year. It is hard to imagine that they are going to introduce 3 different cars (assume RSX will not be dead or put on life support like NSX) within 24 months.

varmint · December 2005

The RDX is scheduled to debut in late spring or early summer. The redesigned MDX is scheduled for release later in the same year. The RSX is not coming back after this year.

jchan2 · December 2005

The death of the RSX means that in 2006 there will be 2 new Acura models- the RDX and the redesigned MDX.

bodble2 · December 2005

Plus the CSX in Canada.

(When and where did they announce that the RSX is dead after this year?)

phastphil1 · December 2005

I work at a Acura dealer, and what we have heard is the Detroit show for intro, with late spring release for sale.

varmint · December 2005

The demise of the RSX has not been officially announced. (That would probably be a bad move from a PR point of view.) However, there have been zero leaks about the next generation RSX, which is odd at this point. Honda is tight with their information, but this late in the game we've typically heard something. The only rumors we are hearing are one's about its termination.

If our concerns are related to designing resources, then we have to look at Honda as a whole, not just Acura. And there have been plenty of years when Honda has released more than one new or revised vehicle in one year. For example, in 2003 Honda released the redesigned Accord, the new Element, and the new Pilot. At the same time, they did the UK Accord which became our TSX early in 2004.

If we're thinking that Acura hasn't release more than one model per year for marketing reasons, I think that's only been true because of the short line-up they've got. With only five models on the lot, you don't have many opportunities for double release years. But as Acura grows, they'll have to start doubling up. In 2004, we had both the TL and TSX, plus a an MMC for the MDX.

adam1999 · December 2005

Have you heard any news as to whether a traditional manual transmission will be available?

jchan2 · December 2005

I have also heard that the production site for the RDX will be Marysville and for the CR-V it will be East Liberty.
The news is from a Honda worker when we had a chat.

kyfdx · December 2005

Marysville and East Liberty are only five miles apart.. Most of the time, both facilities are generically known as "Marysville".

I'm pretty sure the RDX and the new CR-V will be produced on the same assembly line...

regards,
kyfdx
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