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In the market for minivan and having a hard time doing feature comparision between EX and Sienna's LE or XLE. Question for the group, what would you consider the EX to be comparable in Sienna line-up, would it be the LE or XLE?
Thanks
-Deepak
Has anyone out there tried or been able to get 3 child car seats accross the 2nd row of the Ody. I read in Consumer Reports that it was not recommended or wouldn't work or something but I wanted to see if anyone had any experience doing/trying it.
Thought - due to my question/issue above, I hadn't really be considering the Ody, only looking at the Sienna. On a whim today, my wife and I decided to go check out the Ody. Our thoughts - The Ody has a much nicer interior - controls, etc then the Sienna and my wife says it drove nicer. We were looking at the Sienna LE with Option 5 and today looked at the Ody EX. They both sticker for about the same ~ $28.5 although I'd expect that you have less negotiating room on the Ody. Benefits of the ody are on the base EX, you get both side doors auto, auto driver seat and 6 disk CD. You don't get this on the Sienna option 5.
Now we are really thinking the Ody, but if I can't get 3 kids seats accross the 2nd row then it has to be out. That is why the question above is so important. Thanks.
Vince
The interior of the Sienna is wonderful ( I found the black steering wheel in the Odyssey to be "cheap" looking) and the power tailgate is awesome. The ex w/ leather is probably a better buy than the xle I purchased. However, Honda treated me like dirt and there's no way I could gain the concessions that Toyota gave me.
The Toyota sales manager and two different salesmen worked with me and I never once felt my blood pressure go up. I was able to walk away with $5500 in my pocket and no money down (after a fair $2500 trade-in for a beat-up 98 Grand Caravan that was on its last leg). On the other hand, the Honda salesmen chased after me twice and kept calling my cell phone until I told them I was now the happy owner of a Toyota.
I really hated the Honda people asking me to sign a piece of paper stating that I would buy a Honda at such and such a price. Wake up Honda, you can't keep treating customers like idiots and let your quality slip at the same time- not in this environment.
I
I am a Sienna owner, but depending on what you are after, the Honda could be a better fit. Put it this way, if you want to purchase the van out right, then the lower price of the LE model would be the way to go. However, if you are considering leasing, then the Honda is a no-brainer. Both vans are very good and you can't really go wrong with either one. Just to look at it a different way; compare these two vans to a Chevy Uplander with the GM employee pricing. To get about the same amount of equipment on a LS Uplander you will end up at about $24,300 with the GM employee pricing. This would be about $4000 cheaper than a Honda EX. However, if you lease the Honda, the lease payment is on the order of 60$ - $80 cheaper per month because the retains more value. The value of an Uplander after 36 months is around $9600 and the Honda is still $16000. If you try to lease the Toyota, it is about $40 - $50 more per month than the Honda because while is retains more value than the Chevy, it still can't match the Honda in resale value. This really did not matter to us, because we purchased our Sienna out right. However, looking back the Honda was probably a better value, but we liked the softer ride of the Toyota better. Hope this helps.
Rgs
If you compare the EX with cloth to the LE w/ option 5, the EX is better. It is disappointing to me that Honda would make a minivan and offer this 8th seat, but make it pretty much useless. A minivan is supposed to be laregely a child carrier, why wouldn't you make sure it is usable as such. Oh well, maybe I'm just upset that we may have to get the van we like less(even if only a tiny bit less) because of a feature that should be available.
Please post again if you find any other options for the third car seat. Always nice to find other people with my problems!
In my quest to find a minivan, I actually found the Sienna to have a better lease than a Honda Odyssey. In fact one Honda dealer told me they couldn't touch Toyota's leasing program, for now at least. Also, leases change every month, so depending where you live and which month, this can change. But I leased an XLE for $359/mo with $0 vs. $440/month for a Honda EX cloth. They both sold for about the same price (roughly $26,500) but the Sienna either had a better residual, or Toyota Finance arm is more aggresive at the moment. I do agree though, if you are to purchase outright, the Odyssey EX may be a slightly better deal overall. I liked that van better, but think the Sienna is very good overall, and an excellent value for what I have to pay. irg
The nice thing about the Ody is if you CAN get it to work, in the long run it will be better because the two remaining seats are nice and big. In the Sienna 8, to get that 3rd seat in there, they shrink the other two seats. If you look at the 8 vs the 7, you'll see what I mean. So, in the ody as your kids grow and you no longer us the middle seat, they'll have nice big(ger) seats to sit in.
Regarding access to the 3rd Row, it is a problem, but for me, we hardly ever use it. I know on the Sienna, you can pop up the middle row seat - like getting in the back seat of a 2 door - so someone can sneak behind it and get to the back. Not sure if the Oddy has that option.
My kids are 4, 2 and 0 (on the way) and the way I figure, the 4 year old won't last too long in the 2nd row before he wants to head to the back. However, while he is there I want to make sure the kids are comfortable and SAFE. As I stated somewhere, as much as I like the Ody, I don't want emotion to lead me to the wrong decicison.
Depending on the ages of your kids, I have read that it is much easier to get a booster seat in that middle seat then a regular car seat. We'd like to keep the baby in the middle though, so again not very useful for us.
I think the only way I'm going to really know is by taking the base to the infant carrier to the honda dealer and trying it out. That is my next move.
I would not put a car seat of any sorts in the middle seat.
My kids are 3, 1.5, and 0. So after the infant carrier runs its course, we will have 6mo to a year with 3 full size tethered car seats. I haven't bothered to check, but I would be amazed if there were anchor/tether attachments for 3 seats in any of the middle rows.
So we will probably send the 3 year old to the back. She can almost buckle herself in and out ... in the meantime, we'll be crawling back there to help. In the long run, the larger seats on the 7-seat Sienna or Ody will be more useful once the kids are just in boosters or free to argue over where they sit.
I know the Ody lets the two middle seats push together. Does the Sienna have this capability? I could see the infant and my younger in the middle seats pushed together allowing easy access to the back.
All this and we naturally have Chrysler/Dodge/Ford/Mazda employee discounts available. I really want to figure out a reason why stow n' go helps us in any way with car seats affixed all over the place.... :confuse:
You're points are all valid. I just like having all that space behind the 2nd row which is why we want to put all 3 in row 2 for now. If I didn't really want the space, I'd keep my 00 MPV which we really love and skip the 25 - 30K debt that I'll be going into. It is funny, there is some guy on the Ody club site who basically tells people like me(want 3 kids in row 2) that we are idiots and should learn how to pack properly and at some point we'll be trying to keep the kids apart. The guy has a point, but he is just funny.
From what I understand, the Ody seats slide across similar to the MPV. I think the toyo seats move over but they may have to be picked up or something. It is not as easy in the toyo. I don't know what to do, really confused at this point. Going to see the darn Ody has put me into a tailspin now I've got to go do a full blown analysis/comparison.
We're replacing an Escape with the minivan. The back of the Escape has been great for everything from strollers, coolers, bags, groceries, clothes, and the all too frequent flat area to do a diaper change. I'm expecting that we'll use the 60/40 split in the back just to have a flat space to change a kid while we are out and about. So I fully appreciate the need for the extra storage space....
I just wish my Detroit/Ohio relatives' employee plans were for minivans that were more useful for our needed seating arrangements. The only advantage I see of the Stow system is the storage it provides since we'd never have the seats down.
I double checked the Sienna after your comments. They do show an interior picture on their website with the two middle seats together. That would suffice for our needs I think. I don't need them to slide, just moved over would be convenient for rear seat access with car seats in the middle buckets. Thanks for the info.
And there is a website out there for people with/expecting triplets. The only minivan I saw discussed there was the Sienna for it's three seats in the middle row capability. Most of those people were putting another two kids in the back seat as well..... so my problems don't seem that insurmountable.
That is where your wrong. Stow-n-go is a perfect van for three car seats and easy access to all three in the third row. You stow the middle passenger side seat and you have an easy way to get at the third row. Mom could even sit in the other second row seat not stowed, to be close to them if needed. Stow-n-Go is very family friendly. They work much better than Honda or Toyota in getting to the back row seats. They're not just good for hauling stuff. They're perfect for families.
The concept of Mom sitting back with the kids is something we don't practice, so that benefit is not real useful to me. Thanks for the insight though, it is interesting.
You don't lose storage, you still have that big well behind the third row seat that you use to stow the third row seats when you don't need them. There is gobs of room behind the third row.
Or, I guess you just "move" the storage to the middle of the van instead of the back
No, but if you stow the passenger's middle seat, you not only have plenty of room to get at your kids in the third row, but there is room there to put stuff. Plus you still have room under the other second row seat to stow all kinds of stuff.
If your wife doesn't want to sit in the empty second row seat, she can sit up front and still be able to get up and walk all the way to the third row without stopping the van.
That's why I said the Dodge/Chrysler is people friendly. Of course you could always take the heavy seat out of your Honda or Toyota, but with Stow-n-Go, you don't have to. And you still wouldn't have the storage that Dodge/Chrysler has.
To sum up, looks like the Sienna and the Ody can easily shift the two middle row seats together to allow my 3 yr old easy access to the back. We'll head to the Chrysler dealer maybe this weekend to see how easy it would be for her to navigate through the middle of the second row.
I still need to figure out if Ody/Toyota is worth the hassle and $$ of bypassing the employee discounts.... but that can be left to the angry/yelling on the Dodge/Chrysler boards. Thanks for the constructive help.
96corolla: Good luck with the 3rd kid. Let me know what you end up doing with what is really the least of your concerns: what to drive the kid home in.
If you really check it out, you'll see the wife can get out of either front seat and walk between them and with the one passenger seat stowed in the second row, there is over two and a half feet of room to walk right up to the third row seats.That's more room than she is wide. She won't have any trouble at all. I have even done it.That still leaves one second row seat open to put a car seat in.
"My one year old isn't up to taking care of himself in the 3rd row, so she needs to reach him and the newborn from the driver seat. Hence our concern with getting two car seats anchored in the middle row."
mttskys does NOT want to drop/take out a 2nd row seat and place either the newborn or the 1 year-old in the 3rd row. Yes, you CAN do this in a DCX van with sto'n'go. You can ALSO do this in a Sienna/Ody by taking a seat out. The point is, that mttskys wants 2 children (at LEAST two children) in the 2nd row. This way, the newborn and 1-yo are within ARMS REACH, not where one would have to unbuckle and walk all the way back to the 3rd row everytime a child dropped a toy.
Sto'n'go has some advantanges; yet I get the impression that you INVENT more uses for them than naturally present themselves.
Bottom line for me is that I won't buy a Chrysler/Chevy/Ford product. For me, there is no comparison between those and the Sienna/Ody. I could be the dumbest most ignorant person on earth, but that is just how I feel. So, even if the Sto n go was the greatest thing in the world....which I still don't believe it is....I still wouldn't get any of those vans over the Sienna/Ody.
Mttskys - if you've checked out the incentives boards at all, the really savvy shoppers have actually said that the employee discounts are "worse" deals then were available last month when you do all the math. They believe it is a marketing strategy to attract the folks who don't have the time/desire to do all kinds of pricing research and just hear "employee discount" and assume it must be an unbelievable deal. According to their research, it really isn't any better deal then has previouslly been available through cash back and finanching. Good luck with your decision as well. I'll be interested to hear what you decide. As I mentioned above, for me the difference between the Sienna/Ody and Chrysler/chevy/ford are like night and day so the little extra money is worth it in the long run. Good luck.
Sto'n'go has some advantages; yet I get the impression that you INVENT more uses for them than naturally present themselves.
No, but I do think about how stow-n-go can be used besides just hauling junk around. Just listening to some of you talk on these boards. You seem to only think unless your going to haul furniture or a bunch of junk around, stow-n-go has no value at all.
If a person is going to plunk down $25,00-$35,000 for a van, shouldn't it be able to do more than just haul people and look pretty? Wouldn't you want one that made your life easier for you? Especially if you have kids.
When my wife and I had our first child, we had a Chevy Camaro. It was a nice car and looked great. I loved that car. But with two doors, it wasn't much good for a family car. We got rid of it and bought a four door New Yorker. It made it a lot easier getting the kids in and out of.
That's the same way I thought about buying a minivan. Any minivan can haul people around. But if I'm going to spend $25,000 on a van, I want it to do more than that and look pretty. I want it to make my life easier. Stow-n-go does just that.
When I bought my van, I had a club cab truck. I could pick up my three grandkids and put them in the back seat of the truck, but it was a pain getting them in and out along with their back packs. My Dakota was a beautiful truck and I loved it. I only had it for three years and had just 23,000 miles on it. But it didn't make things easier for me. When I saw the 2005 Dodge minivan, when taking the truck in to get the oil changed and saw those stow-n-go seats, it didn't take me but a couple of minutes to see how I could use that van, to not only haul many things I put in my truck, but how much easier it would be hauling around my grandkids.
I saw the very first day the advantage of stowing the middle passenger's seat and haven't had it up but once. If it's raining, I only have to push a button to open the sliding door. The kids can run in the van and sit in the back seats and throw their back packs on the floor where the one seat is stowed. I have put a wagon in the side door and a air compressor my brother wanted to borrow. I could not have lifted that air compressor in the rear hatch by myself. I had no trouble putting it in the side door by myself.
I'm sure over the years, I'm going to find a lot more uses for my van that stow-n-go made possible besides hauling people from point A to point B. I'm just sorry more people can't see the advantages. That's a lot of money to plunk down for just a people mover.
Bottom line for me is that I won't buy a Chrysler/Chevy/Ford product. For me, there is no comparison between those and the Sienna/Ody. I could be the dumbest most ignorant person on earth, but that is just how I feel. So, even if the Sto n go was the greatest thing in the world....which I still don't believe it is....I still wouldn't get any of those vans over the Sienna/Ody.
First let me say I am not just a Chrysler person trying to win over ODY/TOY people. I read a number of boards, not just Chrysler/Dodge. Plus, I also own a 2004 Honda Civic, so it's not like I hate foreign cars and vans. I have never said that Honda and Toyota were not good vans. As a matter of fact, a few days ago, I said as far as vans go, and a people mover, Toyota was the king of the hill.
I have seen the Honda several times and test drove it once while waiting to get the Civic serviced. If Honda had stow-n-go and I could have gotten a deal even close to what Chrysler gave me, I would have bought a Honda Ody and been on these boards telling people of all the advantages the Ody has with stow-n-go. But they didn't and stow-n-go does have many advantages to it for families and people that carry more than just people.
You don't want to buy one, then don't. No one is forcing you. But I think stow-n-go is a great feature and could make life a lot easier for some people. I just want people to know the advantages of it over everything else on the market and not just look at it as a van that can carry people and junk. I am not so stuck on any make that I would look over another, that made my life easier.
So, you pick Toyo over Ody....why? Just curious and maybe I'll learn something. Thanks.
I may be mistaken, but I think this whole discussion began by comparing the possibilities of 3 across seating in the Toyota 8-seater vs. the Ody +1 system, which is something that NOT all can do.
"But even if she had both in the second row and one dropped a toy on the floor, I would like to see her pick it up from the floor from the front seat and hand it back to the child without getting up to do it."
Interesting. My wife does this all the time in our Ody, chasing down any number of dropped sippy cups, toys, crayons, etc. etc. If I were to suggest that we put the kids in the 3rd row, she'd probably look at me as if I had 3 heads and wonder, quite loudly, why force her to get up and move all the way to the back everytime somebody dropped their whatever. Perhaps my wife (approaching 40 quickly) is simply more limber than average, but I doubt it. Or perhaps you simply don't have a high opinion of the average woman's capabilities. Weren't you proposing that the average double stroller was too heavy for a woman to load in the rear of a van and that it was much better to load it in the side door with one 2nd row seat stowed?
"You seem to only think unless your going to haul furniture or a bunch of junk around, stow-n-go has no value at all."
Guilty as charged. Of course, YOU are the one always talking about how great sto'n'go is if one must unexpectedly haul something large and must, on the spot, fold the seats. Otherwise, EVERY instance in which you have espoused sto'n'go could also be duplicated in a standard van with removable seats.
So, perhaps you could clarify: what does sto'n'go offer that an Ody/Sienna with removable seats CAN'T offer which does not include unexpected hauling?
"I had a 2000 Ford Focus a few years ago. It was one of the neatest cars to drive. I loved driving it. But got rid of it after one year and bought the Dodge truck. Why? The monitor went out on my computer and when I went to buy another, I couldn't get it in the trunk of the car because the trunk lid opening was to small.
Don't they make a hatchback version of the Focus?
We are constantly reaching back onto the floor in our Escape's second row to get at cups, books, etc. So yes, we want the two youngest in arm's reach... and yes, you want to pull over whenever you see us on the road because we are always stretching backwards reaching for stuff instead of driving.
To stay somewhat on topic, we are comparing the Ody/Toyota against each other first... they are generally regarded as #1/#2 in reviews. The two appear to compare pretty even on most points... usability, safety, child friendliness... with the Ody having what is rumored to be better handling and the sensitive point of improved braking performance.
After that, we're going to compare against the T&C. Which brings us back to the $$$ and haggling. I know the GM thing is a marketing thing for the most part.... but originally hailing from Ohio gives us relatives that work for Chrysler and Ford (not GM). So we get employee discounts on those brands plus their regular incentives. So it would be a fixed below-invoice price then ~$3500 in rebates for Chrysler.
I now have some use cases in mind for our test drives with the middle seats and the folding 3rd row. Any other Ody/Toyo input for kid use? ... but I digress, we should get back to the Focus hatchback discussion and Stow N' Go on this Toyo/Ody board.
That's not to say others are not close, they are. Quality has been going up on many makes, but Toyota is still the best.
2. Thanks for your input on Toyo being king. I would agree. I bought my Carolla new in 96 and it still drives like a dream. At 102K, it is just a puppy!!!!
My problem is that on first analysis, we tend to like the Ody more...but have the problem on possibly not getting the 3 seats in row 2. So, I'm just trying to figure out what the he#@ to do!
rorr - I think Marine2 is in a different boat them some of us as he seems to be a grandpa with grandchildren who are above toddler age. For him, it's easy/nice to throw the kids in row 3....the older kids may actually think it's cool cause it gives them their own little area and keep them further away from the adults. So, for him, it works great. For me, with kids 0 - 4, it is not practical for the same reasons you mention and I agree that you could accomplish the same things in Toyo/Ody by removing seats. Different demographics lead to different perceptions of what is useful and valuable feature. For Marine2, it works. For me and you, probably not. Either way, it is interesting to get the different perspective.
Well I'm glad to see your wife is lucky enough to have all those things fall into her reach and not go under the seat or roll over by the door in a moving van. Either that, or she has very long arms not to have to get out of her seat for anything. My wife at only 5'1" is not that lucky at all. Neither am I.
Guilty as charged. Of course, YOU are the one always talking about how great stow'n'go is if one must unexpectedly haul something large and must, on the spot, fold the seats. Otherwise, EVERY instance in which you have espoused stow'n'go could also be duplicated in a standard van with removable seats.
Yep, you would have to remove the seat or seats Not always an easy chore for a lot of women. But of course I'm sure your wife would have no problem doing it. I'm afraid mine would.
So, perhaps you could clarify: what does stow'n'go offer that an Ody/Sienna with removable seats CAN'T offer which does not include unexpected hauling?
Not a thing. Take your seats out of the Ody and it can do all that the Dodge/Chrysler can do. We are talking of convenience though and making life easier.Stow-n-go makes life a lot easier, no matter what comes up. You know as well as I, your not going to keep one or two middle seats out of your van most of the time, or hardly at all. It would not be all unexpected to go shopping some place and see something you like and decide to buy it. Maybe it's to big to fit in the rear hatch or to high to lift it. It would be a cinch to drop one seat down and put it in the side door like I did with my air compressor. You don't get that convenience with any other van. Nor do you get the storage space with any other van.
Don't they make a hatchback version of the Focus?
They sure do. But like many other people, I didn't look at everything that I would use the Focus for. I didn't see the advantage of the hatchback over the four door sedan. The sedan had a large trunk and the rear seat backs folded down. I thought I could get just about anything I wanted in it, that would fit in a car. I was so wrong. A 17" monitor wouldn't fit in it. It just barely went in the side door. It's a shame too. That Focus was so much fun to drive. But the dash lights on the Civic won the wife over.
Agreed. I need to stop coming across so heavy-handed re: marine2 and the DCX seats. I know it is just perception on my part but I always get the impression that he 'invents' uses for the seats just to highlights how much 'better' they are than the competition. Unfair on my part. I know he is a fan of the DCX vans, is happy with his choice, and I don't begrudge him for that.
To get back to the original question (3 across seating in the 2nd row of Ody and Sienna):
The Sienna 8-seater is only available on the 'lower' trim lines (LE and CE). Which means if you want factory leather, you are out of luck. However, aftermarket leather is available, high quality, and affordable so this should not be a factor. The 2nd row seats in the Sienna do not have armrests whereas the Ody does. This may or may not be a factor. The middle seat in the Sienna can be positioned much closer to the front row. With a newborn, I personally think this is a huge advantage. My wife and I don't have a newborn so this was not important to us. For us, the 3rd seat would only see occasional use and we thought the outboard seats in the Sienna were not quite as comfy as the captains chairs in the Ody.
The +1 seat in the Ody looks ridiculous, no argument there. However, I've sat in (on) it for short drives (sandwiched between booster seats in the outboard positions) and it was much, MUCH more comfortable than it appears (I'm 6'1" and only 170 so I'm on the skinny side). I would have no reservations with sitting in the seat for a 2-3 hour trip.
Regarding 3 across car seats in the Ody: the kids will sit in either car seats/booster seats, NOT the +1 seat itself. So all that matters is how the car seat is anchored and whether or not there is physically enough OVERALL hiproom from door to door. There is no LATCH anchor for the +1 seat, however, a carseat can be secured with the lap/shoulder belt and a tether over the seat back (there is an anchor point accessible in the floor at the rear of the +1 seat.) As far as if there is adequate space, nothing beats a trial fit. I would suggest taking any/all seats you intend to place in the 2nd row and try them out.
Maybe marine2 is an impulse shopper or a garage sale junkie who routinely decides on a whim, to buy something large, like a used recliner or something!
I can't think of too many times in my lifetime when I've suddenly been pressed for room to suddenly transport something I decided to buy all of a sudden. :confuse:
We are, indeed, all different!
Nissan QUEST S - on the road price $ 23, 000 (because of the Nissan's rebates and below invoice price bargaining)
v/s
Honda Odyssey EX - on road $ 28,000
Is the Odyssey worth that extra $5000.0 (i.e ~ 20 % price difference). I personally donot like to center console in the Odyssey. But in terms of driving and car exterior, it is not bad. As much as Honda looks good, it is difficult to justify the extra $5000.0
"I can't think of too many times in my lifetime when I've suddenly been pressed for room..."
Well, I remember when I was in college having a sudden need to transport a 6' wooden drafting table (kinda fell into a deal I couldn't refuse). Fortunately, I was able to get it (mostly) into the back of my '86 CRX Si......
I know it is all in fun!
rorr - big huge THANKS for your summary above. It is about the best one I've gotten on Ody vs Sienna for my specific issue. I really appreciate it. My wife thinks I am absolutely nuts doing all this research, but I'm totally printing out your post and taking it home to her. Thanks.
"however, a carseat can be secured with the lap/shoulder belt and a tether over the seat back (there is an anchor point accessible in the floor at the rear of the +1 seat.) "
How do you do that....send your tether strap from the car seat over the top of the #1? That is great info. Initially it wouldn't matter because as you know, the infant carrier is just a base and doesn't have a tether. However, for future reference it is good to know.
Antother question - different subject - I've read on odyclub about brake problem that many folks are having. Have you guys heard of this and is there any cause for major concern?
We're planning to drive both on Thursday AM. I'll let you know how it turns out. In the meantime, if you can think of any more tips or anything specific I should look for it would be much appreciated!!!
Thanks again.
PS for the guy asking about the quest - YES, and honda or Toyota are worth the 5K. You'll easily get it back in resale value, not to mention your own satisfaction IMO.
I can't think of too many times in my lifetime when I've suddenly been pressed for room to suddenly transport something I decided to buy all of a sudden
Maybe most Honda and Toyota owners has so much money they usually have work done for them or are willing to pay $35.00 every time you buy something. I'm not. But I am sort of an impulse shopper. I went to Checker Auto parts to by a sun shade for my truck. While there, I saw this air compressor for sale for over $80.00 off. With two cars, I knew I could use an air compressor, not only for blowing up the tires, but to paint my fence, clean the air filters, the wife's and grand kids water flootties and etc. Yes, for that much off, I bought it even though I had no intention of getting one when I went in. I had my truck so there was no problem bringing it home. If I had your Honda, I would of needed help getting it in the back if it would have even gone in that way, even dropping down the third seat. In a Dodge with one seat stowed, it would have been a snap, even doing it myself.
I guess you or your wife never go into a store and buy something you never even contemplated buying before hand. I think a lot of people do. I think you said once you have never had your seats removed in your van. If I had had mine a couple of years earlier, I sure would have. I remodeled my bathroom and put in a new toilet, vanity and tub surround. But again, I had my truck to put it in. I can't afford to hire everything done for me, so I do a lot of it myself.
I thought of these things and about my grandkids, that's why I picked the Dodge instead of any other van. It will do it all for me. I can say if couples only have a couple of kids in car seats and want them in the second row, it will work for them too. But people have to buy what's right for them. I just think they should really consider carefully what your going to use it for, before buying and not make a mistake like I did with the Focus. I lost a lot of money getting rid of it after only one year. I'd rather spend my money taking trips than wasting it or buying something that won't do all I want it to, when I want to do it.
Marine - could you rationally explain what are you doing hanging out at "Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna " forum after you have already baught a Dodge?
I would understand "Minivan shopping" where I also tried to enlighten people after beeing enlightened myself and purchasing a Honda minivan.
But a Chrysler fan here? People choosing between Toyota and Honda (as I mostly did) are not very friendly towards some inheritently inferior "domestic" brands. :P
Like you, we had pretty much narrowed our choice down to either the Sienna or Odyssey. I think the differences tend to get magnified a bit by the various posters in these forums; we found them both to be strong performers. The Ody handled a bit better with somewhat better road feel; the Sienna was a bit smoother/quieter. The degree of difference (IMO) was not really all that much; drive both and you'll develop your own set of preferences.
We were looking at the Sienna XLE w/ the side airbags, traction/VSC, sunroof and leather (I think it was package #6) and the Odyssey EX-L. If I remember correctly, the MSRP of the Sienna (with the package we wanted) was around $2k more than the Ody.
Things we liked about the Sienna - a bit quieter, smoother. Flip out 3rd row vent windows. Ability to place console between either the front row seats, or 2nd row seats. Wood (fake) trim. Nicer (IMO) leather/plastics. Remote rear hatch. Trip computer and a few other misc. doodads that don't immediately come to mind.
Things we liked about the Ody - felt a bit more 'athletic' (just remember it's a MINIVAN; not a BMW), lazy susan underfloor storage, easier (IMO) to store 3rd row seats, +1 seat, actual availability of desired vehicle/options in color we wanted.
If we had made our choice without considering price, we would have chosen the Sienna XLE w/ package #6. However, in our area, pickings were few for this model, in a color we liked, without all the extraneous junk that Gulfstates Toyota adds. We were able to negotiate a van for around $32.5 without trying too hard. On the other hand, we were able to negotiate an Ody EX-L for $28.6, easily. Yes, we thought that for the options we wanted the Sienna was a 'nicer' van......but not $4k nicer.
As far as the Quest guy (this board is apparently a catch-all now). I'd disagree on the $5K being made up in resale value. I'm sure the numbers will change, especially if other people dislike that center console on the Quest as much as I, but the resale values between the Nissan and others is pretty small (7-9%) according to:
Cars.com residual values
If you look at a number of other threads, I think you'll see I've been there too. I have noticed a number of Honda and Toyota owners have dropped in on some of the Dodge/Chrysler threads and made their comments such as yours,inheritently inferior "domestic" brands. I think I can honestly say I have not put down Honda or Toyota vans, even though I think Honda's quality is over rated. One only has to look at the complaints on the 2005 Honda and 2005 Dodge Chrysler threads to see that. No one is complaining about anything major happening to their 2005 Dodge/Chryslers and they've been out many months longer than Honda. I do like to see what they are complaining about on the 2005 Honda/Toyotas. It sort of does away with that superior than you myth, that's put out about Honda, that some of you eat up. They are a very good van, but it's obvious reading these posts, Honda has a lot of faults. And so far, they are much more than the 2005 Dodge/Chryslers.
Insinuating that owners of competing makes are a bunch of money-burning snobs won't win you many converts. Just a friendly FYI.
"I guess you or your wife never go into a store and buy something you never even contemplated buying before hand."
That's not what we are saying at all. It's just that usually, our impulse sales don't require a Ryder truck or Dodge van with stow'n'go seats to get home. Another FYI: a typical 10-15 gal horizontal air compressor will fit just fine in the back of virtually any minivan with the 3rd row folded to make a flat floor.
"I thought of these things and about my grandkids, that's why I picked the Dodge instead of any other van."
If I remember correctly you were at the Dodge dealer getting some service work done on your truck and just wandered over to look at the vans. Doesn't sound like you did just one heck of a lot of comparison shopping to me. But it does explain your emphasis on impulse buying of large objects. :P
Yes; it is not a dedicated tether attachment point. It is the mounting point for the rt. hand captains chair if it is mounted in the middle so it is a very sturdy point.
I didn't need to do much comparison shopping. I had driven the Honda once while getting the Civic serviced and I see no other van had stow-n-go, so there was really nothing to compare it with. The Dodge had everything I needed, stow-n-go, power sliding doors, power rear hatch, power driver's seat, am/fm radio with disc and cassette, six speakers with controls on the steering wheel, over head computer, etc. for less than $25,000 and zero financing. I'm set for the next 10 years.
He certainly is sold!
All of their focus groups and research told them their customers perferred seat comfort to folding seats that are of little if any value to MOST people.
I have sat in the stow n' go seats and found them to be thin and uncomfortable.
I'm glad Honda made the decision they did although I know some sales may be lost by this gimmicky (to me) feature.
Chrysler was forced into the 7/70 warranty because they were losing customers because of mechanical problems. They HAD to do something and they did.
Hopefully things have improved and the longer warranty will no longer be needed.
Either that or the warranty claims were killing them and they had to change it for that reason. I really don't know.
As for the 7/70 power train warranty. I doubt it's because they are paying through the nose. Recalls in the last two years, that I checked are way down and they seem to have found out most of the tranny trouble was the fluid and have changed it. Their engine has been very reliable although they have had wiring problems in previous models.