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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
We're starting up a new comparision topic since the Odyssey just had a redesign for 2005 and the Sienna is still very fresh, so if you're comparing the newest model Honda and Toyota minivans, join in here.

Steve, Host
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Comments

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Any word on when Honda will release official pricing on all trim levels of the new Ody? Cars are sheduled to hit the lots middle of next week; official pricing ought to be out any day now.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,905
    knowing Honda, you might not see the pricing until the 22nd when the cars show up. I believe that's what happened with the TSX. There were rumors, but even dealers didn't know for sure until the first one rolled off the truck and they way the window sticker.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    The 05 Ody is so good that:
    Members of the press have named the 2005 Honda Odyssey as a semi-finalist for "Car of the Year" to be named at the Detroit Auto Show in January.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    Compared to everything out there, I think the new Odyssey is the best.
    The only way Toyota can beat it is to turn the Sienna over to Lexus.
  • timewastetimewaste Member Posts: 8
    So??? What do the stickers say?! How much is the Touring's MSRP?
  • amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    HYPE...
    Car of the year doesn't mean better than Bmmer, Lexus, Merc.
    Car of the year can be a Civic, a Focus, can be a Kia...As long as it's creative enough for that model year.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Members of the press have named the 2005 Honda Odyssey as a semi-finalist for "Car of the Year" to be named at the Detroit Auto Show in January.

    While I don't know how the auto show classifies a truck from a car, it is more likely that the Odyssey is a candidate for 'Truck of the Year'.

    Past winners of "Car of the Year"
    2004, Toyota Prius
    2003, BMW Mini Cooper
    2002, Nissan Altima
    2001, Chrysler PT Cruiser
    2000, Ford Focus
    1999, Chevy Corvette
  • alexmishalexmish Member Posts: 47
    BTW, Ivan did not veer away...
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    "Car of the year doesn't mean better than Bmmer, Lexus, Merc."
    Looks like you don't know the criteria or meaning to be car/truck of the year. Find out before you make yourself a fool here among those who know.
  • doug889doug889 Member Posts: 60
    What's the criteria? I know for sure Car of the Year doesn't mean it's better than all other cars that come out in the year. It may be the most innovative or interesting or whatever.
  • mdsmithersmdsmithers Member Posts: 4
    NAME - The awards are the "North American Car of the Year" and "North American Truck of the Year," not "Car of the Year."

        WHO GIVES THE AWARDS? - This year the awards were given by a group of 49 full-time automotive journalists from Canada and the United States. While the awards are announced at the North American International Auto Show, the show
    does not give the awards.

        HOW ARE THE AWARDS CHOSEN? - The awards are designed to recognize the most outstanding vehicles of the year based on factors including innovation, design, safety, handling, driver satisfaction and value for the dollar.

        ELIGIBILITY - Vehicles must be new "substantially changed" from the previous model.

        HOW DO THE JURORS VOTE? - Jurors are given 25 points to divide among cars and trucks. However, no more than 10 points may be given to a single vehicle. The ballots are counted by Deloitte. The three finalists in each category are released in mid-December but until the news conference in January only Richard Gabrys, the vice chairman of Deloitte, knows the winners.

        HISTORY - The awards were started in 1993, were first given in January 1994, and were modeled after the Car of the Year in Europe. They are administered by a seven-person organizing committee and funded by dues paid by
    the jurors.

    As the Sienna was a 2004 canidate, I would imagine the Ody would fall to the car category.
  • lena132lena132 Member Posts: 56
    Looks like pricing is similar to Sienna. Touring Base MSRP is around $35K which is basically the same as XLE Limited Base which is also around that $35K. But XLE LTD Base sports a power passenger seat, Laser Cruise Control, & HID Lights. But Odyssey Base has memory seats, pedals, and is that it?
  • doug889doug889 Member Posts: 60
    Ody touring also has 6 cd changer wiht the Nav and Res. Sienna XLE Ltd gets a single cd player if you want Nav.
  • lena132lena132 Member Posts: 56
    ....there is a reason I said BASE Ody & Sienna. Never mentioned a Odyssey Touring Nav/Res and Sienna HO Pkg, now did I?

    Also, Sienna XLE LTD has power lumbar support (Driver), and 3rd row sunshades as standard equipment. Minor things like faux wood and gated is also in the Sienna.

    Now, Odyssey have faux Aluminum, and Cylinder Deactivation and noise cancellation technology (which, mind you, is just covering up noise & fooling our ears.) And 3rd Row sunshades as optional.

    Now, I hate Honda for putting important buttons on the dash to the left of steering wheel. Moonroof on the dash. Why can't they just get it right and put it on the overhead console? But all this is just personal preference.
  • indy93indy93 Member Posts: 97
    The big bad Ody monster is out and not such a super deal after all! Features and pricing are virtually head to head with Sienna. Looks like a draw.... each having advantages and drawbacks. Honda is not a religion... but there must be faint hearts and wallets in the temple of Vtec tonight.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    Which van has better resale value 2005 Honda or Toyota?

    Your best guess is fine
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    The difference in re-sale is negligible between these two vans, and shouldn't be the reason you choose one over the other.
  • bshawnbshawn Member Posts: 8
    Always Honda. Best place to check is "resale values" on edmunds.

    Does that mean you should always buy a Honda - NO! Even if you get a good deal on either brand, make sure you REALLY like it before you buy. Do not buy just for resale, you will not be HAPPY.

    Resale values are driven by a lot of factors, most important of them being reliability. I think the perception is that Hondas are more reliable - although, it does not come close to Toyota in comfort and luxury. And you know what's ironic - Honda is considered a cheap brand in Japan compared to Toyota.
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    GM is considered an expensive brand in Japan. Will you buy a GM?
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I'd probably take any Cadillac product over any Honda product any day of the week.
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    Go ahead and buy the olds minivan which is the cadillac minivan. Good luck.
  • raydahsraydahs Member Posts: 449
    My best guess would be to use data from a residual value lease guide. Here’s a link
    http://www.alg.com/news-information.asp?page=news_depreciation_ra- - tings
  • lena132lena132 Member Posts: 56
    It's been seen by some customers. Touring MSRP plus Destination charge is $35,010. That does not include DVD nor Navi. Just like the XLE Limited.
  • pluto168pluto168 Member Posts: 44
    I test drove a 05 Ody EX-L w/ RES and a 04 Sienna Limited back to back today. (I wanted to test drive a XLE w/ pkg 15 but they don't have that. Here is my comparison:

    What I liked the most about the Ody over Sienna: The engine was really smooth, responsive, and powerfull, the handling was excellent for a van. The pickup of the Ody was very good. In comparison, the Sienna was a joke - weak engine and coushy handling. When I tried to gain some speed while merging to the freeway, the Sienna did not respond much. So I push the gas pedal a bit more down, this time, the Sienna's engine rev'd up too high and too soon, caused a big jerking feel - very unpleasant.

    I also liked the Ody power sliding doors better than the Sienna's. I felt they were more sensitive to pressure.

    The tailgate of the Ody was not as heavy as I thought originally. I thought it was a deal-breaker for us because the EX-L lacked the power tailgate. But it was very easy for my preganant wife to close it. Thus this "must have" item is off her list now.

    It was a breeze to fold down the 3rd row seats, easier than Sienna, and much easier than the 2nd gen Ody.

    What I liked the least of the Ody were the steering wheel - I can't believe it's not leather-wrapped for a $30k+ vehicle, just rediculous. I also felt the Ody was much smaller than the Sienna. I knew it was smaller in dimention just a bit, but I guess the interior color of the Ody, which was a dark gray, did help either. It made the van feel smaller than it actually should. But in any case, I like the Ivory interior better, just need to see one in person.

    Both me and my wife felt the Ody's driver side seat was not as comfy as the Sienna's. The lumber support wasn't that good.

    I also felt that the visibility to the left rear side was poor when changing lane to the left. The dealership put the window sticker on the 2rd row driver side window. So when I was merging to the freeway, I could not see anything when turned my head to the left. So I rolled down the 2nd row window, it was better, but still not as good as the Sienna's.
  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    There hasn't been much mention on the '05 Sienna, so here are some details. Seems like the option packages have been simplified a little:

    Specs:
    http://pressroom.toyota.com/presstxt/2005toyotakit/2005_Sienna_s.- - pdf

    Features:
    http://pressroom.toyota.com/presstxt/2005toyotakit/2005_Sienna_f.- - pdf

    Options:
    http://pressroom.toyota.com/presstxt/2005toyotakit/2005_Sienna_o.- - pdf
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    pluto: Here's some advice, speaking from experience. Don't let your wife make a vehicle decision until she has the baby. I thought I wanted an automatic Accord when I found out I was pregnant so that's what I traded my 03 Accord coupe 5-speed for. I thought a minivan was unnecessary as well. 7 months later I bought an Odyssey and then traded my 04 Accord EXL automatic for a 2004 Accord EXL manual.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,905
    MY wife might actually consider the Sienna again, sinc eyou can now get the power drivers seat on the LE. Of course, now that the Ody EXL has the moonroof, that pretty much upped the ante to the XLE.

    It will be interesting to see what the resl-world Sienna pricing ends up being. If the LE package 6 (safety stuff + power seat) has TMV in the 26-27 range (like today), it might make it hard to justify the EX-L at 4-5K more.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • eiffiex3eiffiex3 Member Posts: 3
    I have driven a Suburban for years, but I'm now ready to try a Minivan. I've finally convinced my husband that we are now middle-aged geezers with 3 kids and it's time to move on. The one feature of a minivan that is very important to me, is the 60/40 split in the 3rd seat. Since we need 5 seats, this would give us much more cargo space...the one thing I do hate giving up with the Suburban. So from what I've researched, this really limits my options to Chrysler, Toyota or 2005 Honda. Am I right on this? I drove a 2004 Toyota, and really liked it. I'm very used to driving my tank, so this was quite a change. Next I drove a Town and Country, and I just couldn't do it. I suffer from motion sickness very easily, and this thing had me queasy in 30 seconds on the road. I don't know if it was because I had no hood to look out onto (like in a Suburban) or if it was the curve of the windshield. A couple of people have said that different vehicles bothered them if the windshield curved too much. I am waiting to drive the new Honda to see if this creates a problem. I'm not sure why the Sienna didn't bother me. I probably need to drive it again to make sure. We live 50 miles from Honda and Toyota dealers though, so it's a little difficult to just hop over for a spin. Also they don't have the 2005 Hondas yet, so I'm waiting to make the trip. Has anybody ever experienced this with any minivans?
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    Use ALG.com for resale comparisom. Hondas are typically worth 5-8% more than a Toyota across the board. Honda just got #1 position for resale value on their entire model lineup from ALG.com. That was for last year, new results should be out soon. Toyota offers rebates on their vehicles, this hurts resale values. Look at Dodge's $6000 back, what are Dodge's worth a year later...nil!!! REBATES are not your friend.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    Hey, Honda offers rebates, too-- they just disguise them in the form of cheap lease deals or factory-to-dealer incentives. Honda is famous for this. They're not fooling anyone.

    You don't think the factory-to-dealer incentive and cheap lease on the '04 Ody hurt resale values? Think again.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,905
    keep them in perspective. Residuals are reported as a % of MSRP, not sales price. Hondas tend to have a smaller invoice -> MSRP spread, and to sell closer to MSRP, so the residual amount is going to be higher than a car that sells for way under MSRP.

    Who cares what the residual off MSRP of a GM car is if you paid 6K below MSRP? In real world terms, it might well work out to be the same actual depreciation.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • rrshinnrrshinn Member Posts: 16
    Test drove Odyssey Touring & Sienna XLE Limited AWD today. Both very nice vehicles. Wife prefers Odyssey so that's what we'll get. Hate to give up the great deal on Sienna though. Over $3000.00 off MSRP. Hope Touring (RES/NAV) is worth the extra $2500 it's going to cost over the Sienna. More comfortable seats and non gated shifter on Odyssey won her over, although she was not happy with no power passenger seat. Still looking for the mysterious coin box.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,905
    Had the chance to drive an Ody EX-L today. Very nice. My wife was wondering if she could skip looking at the rest of the choices on the short list and just get the Honda (the answer, of course, is "no", since that would spoil all my fun).

    Will try to get to the Toyota dealer this week to do a refresher drive in a Sienna (haven't driven one since last December). At least now an LE is in the cards, since she wants a power drivers seat, but I don't think we want to give up the moonroof, so it may require an XLE.

    Wonder what street prices on an XLE with the safety, leather and roof will be vs. an EX-L Ody?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    I wonder if whatever is causing the CR-V engine fires could also cause the new Ody to catch fire? Isell/Jsmath - what is the word at Honda?

    I wonder if Honda had this figured out before the new Ody design was finalized?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1145-2004Sep6.html
  • raydahsraydahs Member Posts: 449
    "I wonder if Honda had this figured out before the new Ody design was finalized?"

    Apparently NOT! http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100856
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't see that the CR-V issue has anything to do with Odysseys?

    Steve, Host
  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    Probably not, but if they don't know the cause, then it's plausible that the 'feature' could be carried forward to new designs.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Doubtful - likely different rails, different relationship of the filter to the manifold, etc. Someone is blowing smoke :-) Next someone will be pointing sludgy fingers at Siennas!

    Steve, Host
  • raydahsraydahs Member Posts: 449
    "Someone is blowing smoke". Umm...The question was "I wonder if Honda had this (CR-V thing) figured out before the new Ody design was finalized?" The question was answered, apparently not "Honda engineers 'as puzzled as anyone' by recent CR-V fires". It wasn't an attempt to stir it up, mearly an attempt to answer the the question with factual data (no they don't have it figured out!). Most of us realize it's comparing Apples to Oranges and should have been asked in the Accord forum where the same engine is used!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let's hope that no Odyssey's ignite in a month or two after they get their first oil change. Parts is parts, but I wouldn't be surprised if the CR-V team is on a whole different continent than the Odyssey design/engineering people. It seems a bit of a stretch to try to taint Ody's with CR-V woes (and those woes appear tiny as a percentage of '03/'04's CR-Vs sold).

    Steve, Host
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,905
    It doesn't appear that the packaging on the Ody engine is any different than last year (that is, the oil filter and hot parts haven't been rearranged). So, if the current models having been combusting, I don't think the '05s are likely to either.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    "You don't think the factory-to-dealer incentive and cheap lease on the '04 Ody hurt resale values?"

    If the cheap lease deal has hurt the Odyssey then www.kbb.com did not get the memo. They are saying my 2004 Odyssey EX-RES with 5,000 miles is still worth $25,900 to a dealer. I know these figures can be inflated but www.carmax.com has a van identical to mine that they are selling for $25,998 with 5,000 more miles and no DVD system. My cap cost on the lease was $26,xxx.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,905
    There were so many Odys sold at or near MSRP that, IMO, the relatively few sold recently at big discounts really won't affect future values. Remember, very soon there won't be any more '04s, so all the used ones will be on a level playing field (competing with the '05s), and what each person paid will be pretty much irrelevant.

    In this case (but not every case), people who scapped up an '04 for 3k+ off MSRP can end up with very little s/t depreciation.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    There is no way on God's green earth that any car dealer would give you $25,900 in trade for a 2004 old-style Ody EX-RES--even against an '05 with inflated MSRP+ADM. With current incentives, Carsdirect's target price for a brand new '04 EX-RES is $25,900. So why would any dealer give you that much in trade for one now with 5,000 miles on it? Dream on.
  • ggsggs Member Posts: 30
    The Odyssey and CRV are based on two different platforms. There should be no reason to assume the two are related.
  • raydahsraydahs Member Posts: 449
    OK..........last time! My response was to the posters question related to the CR-V!

    They said "if whatever is causing the CR-V engine fires could also cause the new Ody to catch fire". (Key question) "I wonder if Honda had this figured out before the new Ody design was finalized". As the dated link (Posted Date: 9/21/04) states "Honda engineers 'as puzzled as anyone' by recent CR-V fires".

    The Odyssey was supposed to be released on 9/22, the design was probably finalized months ago. So therefore the answer to the question is………….NO, they didn’t have it figured out before the design was finalized!

    I'm well aware of Honda’s platforms; see the last sentence in post #41. I can't believe how blown out of proportion this link has become, in the future I'll be more careful not to say anything that could be misconstrued........done, end of explanation, see ya!
  • tcsubwoofertcsubwoofer Member Posts: 25
    I've spent countless hours and months reading anonymously through Edmunds to determine if we would buy a Sienna, Odyssey, or Quest. My wife and I have been driving our 2 kids (3 years old and 9 months) around in a 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI with a huge Thule topper and things are just TIGHT. I've been completely transformed into a minivan advocate and will not consider an SUV again in the near future. Minivans are just too practical and accommodating.

    After much, much anticipation of the 2005 Odyssey, I have been to a Honda dealership 3 times since last Saturday and test drove an EXL with RES tonight. We then went back to the Toyota Dealership and drove the Sienna XLE. I've been to Nissan, Toyota, and Odyssey dealerships on at least 3 occasions (5 for Nissan).

    My impressions of each vehicle are:

    Chrysler Town & Country: Lots of useful storage. We sat in the top of the line $37,000 van and I was so unimpressed with the interior styling - leather looked really cheap and controls looked dated - that I choose not to test drive. This was a complete personal preference. I was trying to like it since my grandparents just bought one and love it.

    Nissan Quest: Tons of fun, poor reliability. Last time I looked at a Nissan the steering column cover was wobbling and this affirmed my perception of questionable quality. However, I love the sunroofs, dash, and styling. If I was more comfortable with Nissan Quality and resale value - this might have been at the top of my list. Man, does that full length skylight ROCK. Why can't Odyssey copy this?

    Honda Odyssey - Practical and Sporty, a tad low on luxury. I still feel that the Sienna takes the cake on Luxury, but the new 05 Odyssey is oh so close. The Odyssey feels smaller for some reason than the Sienna. I think it has less internal volume and the side and rear windows are proportioned differently which causes the impression of a more cramped minivan. Engine is more responsive and seemingly powerful than Sienna. The ease of use of the rear fold down seats is phenomenal and better than the Sienna. Once you start the motion of the flip down, the seat folds down on its own under gravity and spring tension. Super easy.

    Toyota Sienna - luxury and soft ride, lacking in power. A few more standard features (compass, power rear, etc). Sick of over pricing of features. Many Toyota dealerships can't say anything when I show them the ~$32,410 price for EXL with DVD Res (2005). The competition between the Sienna and Odyssey is now hairsplitting. I can't seem to have anybody even offer me a Sienna XLE for the price of the Odyssey with DVD Res. I tried, I emailed 8 or 9 dealerships in Colorado a few days ago.

    Trying to have fun is at least half my money. Therefore, we decided to go with Nighthawk Black Pearl with Ivory interior on an EXL with DVDRes. I think the Black Odyssey will have a bit of "attitude" with the tinted windows and chrome wheels. This is FUN! We went in to place a deposit on a Sage Brush Pearl Odyssey with Ivory seats, but that was placed on hold earlier in the day. At first we were disappointed, but a Nighthawk Black Pearl Honda Pilot was on the showroom floor and my wife was completely impressed with the color. The black has a blue hue under certain light which is a nice effect.

    After test driving the Sienna within 1 hour of the Odyssey, my wife jumped out and looked at me with a big smile and said the Sienna was no longer in the running. As a matter of fact, she said she would not buy the Sienna unless it sold for LESS than the new Odyssey. Hence, we have a $500 deposit holding our new Odyssey to be built at the end of the month and delivered by the end of October. All the Odysseys on the lot at John Elway Honda in Denver, CO were sold. I think 3 hondas coming in had deposits. They were only getting about 10 to 15 hondas over the next 3 months and I snatched up one of them.

    I can go into many other details, but I'm glad the search is over. All minivans offer great features. I can't look down on any person for choosing an Odyssey, Sienna, or Quest because I still like features on all those models. But for me, the new Odyssey styling, performance, and features pushed us into the Honda camp. In my mind, there is more to get on this vehicle than all others. I can't wait for the new van, if anything to help our cramped lifestyle!
  • gatorhawkgatorhawk Member Posts: 23
    official info finally on the honda website.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    There is one thing I could not understand. Why do people rate Sienna’s acceleration “sluggish”? few years ago we never dreamed of minivans having more than 200 hp and about 220 lb.-ft. Now Toyota offers 230 hp, which should be more than adequate, and it have 242 lb.-ft. @ 3,600 rpm, and curb weight (Limited FWD) is just 4165 Lbs. (according to Toyota).

    Now The Odyssey, although it has some more hp, it has just 250 lb.-ft. of torque @ 5000 rpm, and the curb weight (Touring) is 4630 Lbs.! (According to Honda).

    You should already know that lb.-ft. of torque @ xx rpm is more important for acceleration than horsepower. Can anybody explain me how Sienna is sluggish?

    I still remember (not too long ago) when the Sienna came out how everybody was impressed with the smooth power. Now because the Odyssey raised the bar to 255 hp, Siennas all of a sudden are getting "sluggish"??
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    Not much difference there in price between Ody Touring w/NAV+RES and Sienna Limited w/NAV+RES.

    Now if Toyota can get their smart engineers to put a 6-CD changer behind the NAV screen instead of a single CD player, and give the Sienna the same Lexus NAV, but keep the price the same, it will be even more interesting.
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