there is no gap when the 3rd row is folded down, unless I suppose you push the 2nd row all the way as far forward as you can which would give very little leg space in the 2nd row if the front row is anywhere but way far forward.
I'm 5' 8" and I was testing all the cars by getting into the front passenger seat, getting comfortable in it without giving myself a mile of leg room, then setting the 2nd row for similar comfort and then checking out the 3rd row. The B9 certainly has no gap between 2nd and 3rd doing that.
That's what Subaru has that's unique, and that's what they should focus their marketing efforts on.
99% of the market could give a rat's patoot about the boxer engine. You know that most folks could barely distinguish between an inline configuation and a V layout engine. How many times have you heard the phrase V-4 - even here at Edmunds?
99% of the market could give a rat's patoot about the boxer engine.
You're right—and that's exactly the problem! There are distinct advantages to a boxer layout—lower center of gravity, which allows for better handling.
So Subaru is not "successfully" getting the word out. Yeah, some Subie fans know that, but not the car audience at large. This engine is unique to this class of car, and Subaru needs to do a better job of promoting the advantages of this type of layout.
You're right—and that's exactly the problem! There are distinct advantages to a boxer layout—lower center of gravity, which allows for better handling.
But is the buying public going to care? Will they brag to their Pilot driving neighbor: "Hey my Tribeca has a boxer engine and it'll out handle your Pilot". I doubt it.
They can advertise XXX HP Boxer engine and Symmetrical AWD, but the buying public will hear XXX HP and AWD. Boxer and Symmetrical will be skipped. It's too hard to compare it to other systems.
Only now is the general public becoming aware of the advantages of AWD. It took years and years of hammering the same message, over and over again, but it's now beginning to sink in.
I remember years ago, when VW had their "air-cooled" Beetle boxers, just about everyone knew you didn't have to worry about antifreeze with those engines, and that the engine would never freeze in cold weather. VW was very successful in educating the public back then about the advantages of air-cooling vs water-cooling. Subaru need to do the same with it's boxer engine.
In the future the boxer engine is what's going to distinguish Subaru from the other brands. Not AWD; but the boxer engine. That's why it's so important to get the word out.
Only now is the general public becoming aware of the advantages of AWD. It took years and years of hammering the same message, over and over again, but it's now beginning to sink in.
I don't think Subaru can take credit for that. It may have blazed the trail but IMHO AWD has become populat because SUV's have become so prevalent. Now more mainstream manufacturers have been offering it as well because not everyone wants an SUV.
I remember years ago, when VW had their "air-cooled" Beetle boxers, just about everyone knew you didn't have to worry about antifreeze with those engines, and that the engine would never freeze in cold weather.
Before my time but wasn't that back in the day when people actually changed between water and antifreeze and swapped out thermostats twice a year? Also wasn't air cooled a pretty radical departure from the norm? Further, VW was a foreign car - it also had to overcome that stigma.
IMHO, I don't see how touting the advantages of the boxer engine is going to make a difference to the average consumer with regards to an accepted brand. Then what happens when the market demands an 8 cylinder? Does Subaru toss out the boxer design?
The point I'm making is Subaru has a story to tell here. With effective advertising—it can work. Without effective advertising—nothing will happen.
"That thing got a Hemi?" is a perfect example of how effective advertising can become a buzz phrase that's become the national craze. Just about everyone has heard—and remembered that phrase. Granted, that's not the image Subaru wants, but it illustrates how powerful an effective a successful ad campaign can be.
Let's just hope it works. I don't think they should pin all their hopes on just differentiating based on the boxer engine. There has to be more of a story to tell IMHO.
As for Hemi - it's has a history associated with it. Boxer does as well but it would involve using a competitor's (well at least juice thinks so) name.
The true upshot of the boxer engine and the symmetrical AWD platform is how the vehicle handles. It's the reason my Outback XT handles and corners so well despite the 8.7" of ground clearance and the long travel suspension. Low CG and central drivetrain layout is everything in this regard. It will be *the* reason the Tribeca is unique and compelling (to certain people) when compared to the competition, and why they want the vehicle even if it costs a little more.
Unfortunately, most customers don't put a premium on handling in a wagon, minivan, or SUV. We can probably conclude that based on the large number of people driving vehicles with lousy handling and poor stability.
So that is the real battle -- getting customers to care about handling and stability and then showing them that Subaru's platform is one of the few that can deliver that in a wagon/SUV type of vehicle. I think that's a tough battle.
So that is the real battle -- getting customers to care about handling and stability and then showing them that Subaru's platform is one of the few that can deliver that in a wagon/SUV type of vehicle. I think that's a tough battle.
Bingo.
Perhaps Subaru needs to reposition the brand as hip, performance AWD - not just premium.
The Tribeca name and all the city oriented ads I've seen recently for the Legacy GT seem to be doing that already. When was the last time anyone saw a commercial for the Outback?
I think I see Outback commercials at least 5-6 times a week -- I remember because they show a blue XT scrambling over some rocks and I like that color! They do mention one thing in particular -- the turbo motor (and 250 HP if I remember right) which ought to push some buttons with customers but maybe not the big "handling" button.
I don't have any good ideas how Subaru can go after the hip/performance AWD image, but then again I am not a marketing person. Anybody have creative ideas? I always liked the WRX commercials where they showed the car in some pretty spirited driving with the awesome boxer engine sound and fades to rally-car clips. Maybe more commercials like that? Certainly got me excited (damn, now I miss my old WRX!)
I think it depends on how many rows you have folded.
Like Cptplt wrote earlier, there is no significant gap between the rear cargo area and 2nd row if the 2nd row is upright.
I was not allowed to climb around inside the Tribeca at the RI auto show. However, as the reps showed the features, I saw what looked like large gaps when both rows are folded forward.
That said, I kinda doubt you'll need to fold both rows to fit one dog. Even a Berner or Swissie should do okay with the amount of space behind the second row.
The rep at the Soob display told me that the Tribeca would be the only SUV without the Gov't roll-over sticker.
I dunno if that's true or not, but that would be a good way for Subaru to start their focus on the boxer. Mention that fact at the top of an ad, then explain that the boxer design helps them achieve it.
Here in Boston, I'm guaranteed to see the Subaru Legacy GT ad touting COY Japan at least 2-3 times per night. It done at night time and looks like it's running on an elevated expressway in the city. But I think they are done by NE Subaru.
As for Outback ads, they only one I recall seeing with the new model was done by NE Subaru and that hasn't been on in months. No national type ads that I can recall.
sweet subie - I don't hang around the weather channel long enough to see any commericials. Local on the 8's and I'm out of there.
It's true, though, if I had a dime for every time people ask about new Subaru V6...
I like that Porsche ad idea, however. You'd have to start with some background:
Voiceover: the 911 has a wonderfully smooth boxer engine....so does the Boxster...let's see what's under the hood of the new Cayenne...WHOOPS, where's the boxer engine?
Needs work but you get the idea. Subaru stayed true to its heritage while Porsche sold out.
Reps are often wrong, I bet they're wrong about that rollover sticker on the visor. It's required on all light trucks, and I doubt Subaru will certify the Tribeca as a passenger vehicle.
Companies need to be clever when planning an ad campaign. Just because the ad and it's associated components are popular does not mean the consumer understands the value of what is being communicated or in the worst case, the product being promoted.
While the boxer engine could be a proxy for Subaru's value proposition, there needs to be more than just focus on the engine itself. An end benefit the customer can understand like better handling, as Bob mentioned, is what such an ad campaign needs to solidify.
The Hemi ads are a good example. While it certainly is a high output engine, the overall ads communicate the brawn associated with the products that use the Hemi.
Take Audi's new slogan about being a leader. Here's an example where no tangible hardware is called out, yet I think it successfully communicates their technological and design leadership in their products.
What I think Subaru needs is a bit of soul searching to what kind of value proposition it wants to deliver to customers. Unfortunately "Premium" is too vague and doesn't clearly communicate an end benefit to the customer -- premium features at a premium price? A very good ad agency can help, but it sounds to me they need to make some internal decisions as well.
I agree Ken. What I've been saying is that the boxer engine, in all likelihood, is going to be the only significant item that will differentiate Subaru from other carmakers as they all begin to offer AWD.
The trick is Subaru has to convince the public of why a boxer engine is better than other engine layouts.
Unless you're REALLY into performance, most people I'm afraid will not think much of the flat 4 layout. The engine is just the "plastic (covered) " thing under the hood.
Maybe with some really good marketing (watch a Porsche go by, a Ferrari, then a Tribeca) the public might get some idea. But I don't think the average buyer would really care about the difference.
its really for kids, or small adults. its not like a minivan 3rd row by any means but an adult will fit back there and be comfortable for short trips. Its no worse than the 3rd row of a Landcruiser, I was stuck in one for 4 hours once, that was torture!
need mr ali to show what a boxer can do for ya. i really could car less about the details that makes up a good car feel. these boxes , asymetrical awd drive ad thingess make me yawn. now the one that said your Z just got smoked by a family of four with a dog, gets my attention.
i look at stats, acceleration, slalom, crash stuff, price, reviews
if juice, assuming he was pretty unbiased like consumer reports, writes that this particular AWD is better at not spinning out or getting up an icy hill, thats all i need to know. if the IIHS gives the forester a 5 star of side and front, thats all i need to know.
to hell with the fluffy ads saying that ours is better because it has chemical X.
Actually the 2nd row does go back further so there is no space at all. It's actually one of the greatest parts of the vehicle. I think it separates it from all the competition.
The deal is this. When one is in the 2nd row of seats. You can pull the bar underneath the seat and move forward and backwards like 3-4 inches. When you are all the way back in that mode you have pretty good room. Like the back of most of it's competition (Murano, MDX, XC90, etc...). In that mode there is a little bit of space for the 3rd row passengers legs. OK here is where the Tribeca becomes the most AWESOME vehicle I've ever sat it. When you are all the way back in the 2nd seat and no one is in the 3rd. You can pull the bar then there is an Orange safety handle on the front side corner of the seat. You pull that handle while holding the bar and VIOLA the seat goes back like a full 8 inches. When you're sitting like this it's HUGE..I mean HUGE. I was at the Chicago Auto show this week and saw 6++++ footers sitting back there like they were in a front seat..I SWEAR!! Now of course no one can sit in back while in this mode. But the percentage of time people are in the 3rd row is small and even if they were there is still good room. When the seat is all the way back like that there is also NO SPACE between the 2nd and 3rd row seats flat or not. So yes if you have a big dog like me his or her legs will not get stuck. The safety lever is so if someone is in the way back you won't just chop off there legs. I'm telling you though...IT'S what totally sold me. I watch hundreds of people get in the car, including myself the first day I was there. They and I had no idea about this additional room. Once they or I saw... It changed everything. Plus you all know the 2nd row reclines. Imagine all the way back with the recline.... It's like being in the back of a LIMO!! I swear..I don't usually write this much, but I and everyone I showed were in such AWWWW!!!
Thanks for the info. Can't wait to see the Tribeca in person. It was supposed to be in WA state for an auto show last weekend but it was a no show, much to my disappointment. My wife likes the new L.L. Bean Outback (comfort) and I like the new Pathfinder (size), hopefully the Tribeca will be the best of both worlds for us!
I blame Autoweek for this. How can they do a full-length article on AWD in the market and NOT mention Subaru or Audi?
Not to mention they invented an AWD TL, which Acura does not know about, and they forecast future AWD offerings from Infiniti that are already on the road.
First Geneva, now Melbourne! Is New Zealand or South Africa next?
Even though there's no RHD version yet, Subaru is shopping this car worldwide to see what kind of interest there is in it. I'm convinced that, sooner or later, this car will be sold in all major Subaru markets.
So I'm exploring all sorts of mid-size SUVs and waiting for the new Tribeca to hit the road to really look it over. I've seen the marketing emails but can not get a real understanding of how it "feels" until I get inside and drive.
Having just completed a road test of the X3 this past weekend my wife and I left the car quickly scratching it off of our list as it felt CHEAP. The dash was poor, the "driver information center" was a one-liner red LED display compared to our MB E series driver command center Multi-line LCD in the gauge cluster, coupled with standard in-dash LCD. The dash top was some sort of crumpled cheap vinyl that would eat any dust rag. The door panels had netting. How cheap can you get. And what was up with those lame tracks inside the rear storage area? Would someone actually put a dirty MTB inside their car? I want space for my dog and gear and I'm not about to have my dog wreck his paws or nails inside those tracks. Sure, it had power and handling but so does a Dodge Magnum. I want nice leather, a good wood trim package, an intelligent information display, and the car needs to speak quality when you sit in it. Five passengers only, don't waste my time with a folding third-row seat that will be tossed in the trash.
So far the Touareg comes closest to meeting this criteria but the front seating seems a bit confining. (And I'm only 6' 170lbs) The XC 90 is nice but the interior is a bit stark. The Lexus RX 330 is fine but they are everywhere not to mention they are really FWD with pseudo AWD option.
Oh yeah, I also need a 2-inch receiver to mount my bike/ski rack. Those wimpy receivers wont cut it.
So now I'm waiting for the Tribeca and new ML. Hopefully someone will put everything in one package but the longer this goes the more likely I am to move to a hybrid platform like the RX400 or Highlander.
I believe there are several posters on this forum, such as Juice, who have a similar situation, and am curious to hear of others' experiences, choices and thoughts.
Here's my quandary:
We currently have an MDX, which has been a great family car. We are expecting our second child in a few weeks, and my mother-in-law more or less lives with us as a nanny. That's five seating positions I need at a minimum for weekend errands.
With two car seats in the 2nd row, there is no way to access the third row (without actually removing and reinstalling a car seat), and any room leftover in that 2nd row is tight.
So - we are playing with the thought of replacing the MDX with a vehicle with an "accessible" third row, which I have concluded requires captain's chairs in the 2nd row, or perhaps some other innovative feature I haven't thought of (other than climbing through the rear hatch ).
First, for those who have viewed the Tribeca, can the middle seat in the 2nd row be "manipulated" to a point to allow 3rd row access?
Other than that, have others experienced and addressed the issue I am facing? If I want AWD and good reliability, it seems I am down to the Sequoia or Sienna.
So that is definitely a potential issue with child seats. Based on your description, I'd say a Sienna is the perfect vehicle for your needs. I would definitely pass on the Sequoia unless you like piloting battleships....
CRaig
p.s. don't most people put their mother-in-laws on the roof rack?? ;-)
I agree that for ease of access second-row captain's chairs are the way to go.
I have similar requirements, and lthough I am sure this will not be a popular notion in the forum,I am buying a Freestyle. The seating position in either the first or second row is excellent for mothers-in-law, as is access to the rear.
Nothing wrong with Siennas though. I don't like them so much, but if you need the full minivan size and AWD, they are probably the best choice.
the 2nd row is a 2/1 split, you could have the 2 baby seats in the left side 2 section and flip the right side (1 section) to access the back.
how having the shoulder seatbelt in place for the middle baby seat would interfere is another question but they have those tether points on the back of the 2nd row, I'm not sure how those work for baby seats as all my kids are pre tether and latch (or whatever its called ) attachments!
I have an 8 seat Venture which is 2/3/3 seating. Its not that a big deal to get into the 3rd row even for an adult , eitehr by folding the 2nd row back down or moving the whole seat forward without folding it down but the B9 is definitely more a squeeze and a gymnastic event to get into the 3rd row without moving the 2nd row seat forward.
Except for the Freestyle, the only easy access to the 3rd row is in a full size minivan.
The Tribeca's 40/20/40 seats mean you could fold down the center section and then climb over it, but that's still not a true pass-through. But kids will get back there, no problem.
I do agree that having 2 child seats sort of makes the seats "fixed", because it's a pain to re-fasten them.
However, what'll happen soon is you'll have the bigger child in a booster seat (40-80 lbs IIRC). That would make folding the seat simple. You use the car's seat belt.
By that time, your MDX or the Tribeca would be perfect.
My 5 year old is a giant, she's the tallest kid in her class. So she was in a booster before we knew it. Our 2 year old means we'll have one fixed child safety seat for another year or two, then we'll be using a pair of booster.
Volvo has one center-mounted built-in booster in the XC90, and that would work for me right now, actually. But I prefer the XC70's option of two built-in boosters on the outsides. The kids need windows so they don't get car sick.
Comments
I'm 5' 8" and I was testing all the cars by getting into the front passenger seat, getting comfortable in it without giving myself a mile of leg room, then setting the 2nd row for similar comfort and then checking out the 3rd row. The B9 certainly has no gap between 2nd and 3rd doing that.
Maybe they don't understand Canadian. ;-)
(Sorry Sly, couldn't help it)
tom"
Good sense of humoUr there neighboUr, do you sell it by the litRE?
But I think you meant "maybe they don't understand proper English"
Sly
99% of the market could give a rat's patoot about the boxer engine. You know that most folks could barely distinguish between an inline configuation and a V layout engine. How many times have you heard the phrase V-4 - even here at Edmunds?
You're right—and that's exactly the problem! There are distinct advantages to a boxer layout—lower center of gravity, which allows for better handling.
So Subaru is not "successfully" getting the word out. Yeah, some Subie fans know that, but not the car audience at large. This engine is unique to this class of car, and Subaru needs to do a better job of promoting the advantages of this type of layout.
Bob
But is the buying public going to care? Will they brag to their Pilot driving neighbor: "Hey my Tribeca has a boxer engine and it'll out handle your Pilot". I doubt it.
They can advertise XXX HP Boxer engine and Symmetrical AWD, but the buying public will hear XXX HP and AWD. Boxer and Symmetrical will be skipped. It's too hard to compare it to other systems.
Now an enthusiast will care.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained...
Only now is the general public becoming aware of the advantages of AWD. It took years and years of hammering the same message, over and over again, but it's now beginning to sink in.
I remember years ago, when VW had their "air-cooled" Beetle boxers, just about everyone knew you didn't have to worry about antifreeze with those engines, and that the engine would never freeze in cold weather. VW was very successful in educating the public back then about the advantages of air-cooling vs water-cooling. Subaru need to do the same with it's boxer engine.
In the future the boxer engine is what's going to distinguish Subaru from the other brands. Not AWD; but the boxer engine. That's why it's so important to get the word out.
Bob
I don't think Subaru can take credit for that. It may have blazed the trail but IMHO AWD has become populat because SUV's have become so prevalent. Now more mainstream manufacturers have been offering it as well because not everyone wants an SUV.
I remember years ago, when VW had their "air-cooled" Beetle boxers, just about everyone knew you didn't have to worry about antifreeze with those engines, and that the engine would never freeze in cold weather.
Before my time but wasn't that back in the day when people actually changed between water and antifreeze and swapped out thermostats twice a year? Also wasn't air cooled a pretty radical departure from the norm? Further, VW was a foreign car - it also had to overcome that stigma.
IMHO, I don't see how touting the advantages of the boxer engine is going to make a difference to the average consumer with regards to an accepted brand. Then what happens when the market demands an 8 cylinder? Does Subaru toss out the boxer design?
"That thing got a Hemi?" is a perfect example of how effective advertising can become a buzz phrase that's become the national craze. Just about everyone has heard—and remembered that phrase. Granted, that's not the image Subaru wants, but it illustrates how powerful an effective a successful ad campaign can be.
Bob
No, just build a boxer 8.
Bob
As for Hemi - it's has a history associated with it. Boxer does as well but it would involve using a competitor's (well at least juice thinks so) name.
Bob
Unfortunately, most customers don't put a premium on handling in a wagon, minivan, or SUV. We can probably conclude that based on the large number of people driving vehicles with lousy handling and poor stability.
So that is the real battle -- getting customers to care about handling and stability and then showing them that Subaru's platform is one of the few that can deliver that in a wagon/SUV type of vehicle. I think that's a tough battle.
Craig
Scratching head. "Where's the boxer?"
Fades to Tribeca.
Voice over: "Introducing the new Subaru B9 Tribeca. Boxer engine included."
DaveM
Bingo.
Perhaps Subaru needs to reposition the brand as hip, performance AWD - not just premium.
The Tribeca name and all the city oriented ads I've seen recently for the Legacy GT seem to be doing that already. When was the last time anyone saw a commercial for the Outback?
99.9% of the viewers will scratch their heads and say "Huh?"
Boxer doesn't mean anything to most of the buying public.
I don't have any good ideas how Subaru can go after the hip/performance AWD image, but then again I am not a marketing person. Anybody have creative ideas? I always liked the WRX commercials where they showed the car in some pretty spirited driving with the awesome boxer engine sound and fades to rally-car clips. Maybe more commercials like that? Certainly got me excited (damn, now I miss my old WRX!)
Craig
They tout forester & OB's crash test ratings which is good.
I see a lot of legacy ads too, they tout Car of the Year in Japan
Like Cptplt wrote earlier, there is no significant gap between the rear cargo area and 2nd row if the 2nd row is upright.
I was not allowed to climb around inside the Tribeca at the RI auto show. However, as the reps showed the features, I saw what looked like large gaps when both rows are folded forward.
Here's a pic.
That said, I kinda doubt you'll need to fold both rows to fit one dog. Even a Berner or Swissie should do okay with the amount of space behind the second row.
I dunno if that's true or not, but that would be a good way for Subaru to start their focus on the boxer. Mention that fact at the top of an ad, then explain that the boxer design helps them achieve it.
As for Outback ads, they only one I recall seeing with the new model was done by NE Subaru and that hasn't been on in months. No national type ads that I can recall.
sweet subie - I don't hang around the weather channel long enough to see any commericials. Local on the 8's and I'm out of there.
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/download/video/video.html
WRX commercials #1, #2, and #3 are the ones I remember seeing on TV that were pretty exciting.
Craig
Did they mean the hey idiot sticker on the visor or the roll over rating on the msrp label?
If it's a truck, it's supposed to have the hey idiot sticker on the visor IIRC.
All it takes is a strong message, hammered over and over, over a long period of time; just like with any successful advertising campaign.
Bob
I like that Porsche ad idea, however. You'd have to start with some background:
Voiceover: the 911 has a wonderfully smooth boxer engine....so does the Boxster...let's see what's under the hood of the new Cayenne...WHOOPS, where's the boxer engine?
Needs work but you get the idea. Subaru stayed true to its heritage while Porsche sold out.
-juice
-juice
While the boxer engine could be a proxy for Subaru's value proposition, there needs to be more than just focus on the engine itself. An end benefit the customer can understand like better handling, as Bob mentioned, is what such an ad campaign needs to solidify.
The Hemi ads are a good example. While it certainly is a high output engine, the overall ads communicate the brawn associated with the products that use the Hemi.
Take Audi's new slogan about being a leader. Here's an example where no tangible hardware is called out, yet I think it successfully communicates their technological and design leadership in their products.
What I think Subaru needs is a bit of soul searching to what kind of value proposition it wants to deliver to customers. Unfortunately "Premium" is too vague and doesn't clearly communicate an end benefit to the customer -- premium features at a premium price? A very good ad agency can help, but it sounds to me they need to make some internal decisions as well.
Ken
(with is Product Manager hat on)
Ken
The trick is Subaru has to convince the public of why a boxer engine is better than other engine layouts.
Bob
Highlights from the Chicago show: Dodge Nitro SUV gets 20" wheels and AWD.
This market niche will be loaded with competition, one thing is for sure, someones will win and someones will lose as Lou Rukeyser used to say.
John
tom
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101817
Bob
Maybe with some really good marketing (watch a Porsche go by, a Ferrari, then a Tribeca) the public might get some idea. But I don't think the average buyer would really care about the difference.
tom
BINGO!
I didn't say it would be easy, but a very strong—and memorable!—marketing campaign will do it.
Bob
i look at stats, acceleration, slalom, crash stuff, price, reviews
if juice, assuming he was pretty unbiased like consumer reports, writes that this particular AWD is better at not spinning out or getting up an icy hill, thats all i need to know. if the IIHS gives the forester a 5 star of side and front, thats all i need to know.
to hell with the fluffy ads saying that ours is better because it has chemical X.
The deal is this. When one is in the 2nd row of seats. You can pull the bar underneath the seat and move forward and backwards like 3-4 inches. When you are all the way back in that mode you have pretty good room. Like the back of most of it's competition (Murano, MDX, XC90, etc...). In that mode there is a little bit of space for the 3rd row passengers legs. OK here is where the Tribeca becomes the most AWESOME vehicle I've ever sat it. When you are all the way back in the 2nd seat and no one is in the 3rd. You can pull the bar then there is an Orange safety handle on the front side corner of the seat. You pull that handle while holding the bar and VIOLA the seat goes back like a full 8 inches. When you're sitting like this it's HUGE..I mean HUGE. I was at the Chicago Auto show this week and saw 6++++ footers sitting back there like they were in a front seat..I SWEAR!! Now of course no one can sit in back while in this mode. But the percentage of time people are in the 3rd row is small and even if they were there is still good room. When the seat is all the way back like that there is also NO SPACE between the 2nd and 3rd row seats flat or not. So yes if you have a big dog like me his or her legs will not get stuck. The safety lever is so if someone is in the way back you won't just chop off there legs. I'm telling you though...IT'S what totally sold me. I watch hundreds of people get in the car, including myself the first day I was there. They and I had no idea about this additional room. Once they or I saw... It changed everything. Plus you all know the 2nd row reclines. Imagine all the way back with the recline.... It's like being in the back of a LIMO!! I swear..I don't usually write this much, but I and everyone I showed were in such AWWWW!!!
Check it out!!
True
I blame Autoweek for this. How can they do a full-length article on AWD in the market and NOT mention Subaru or Audi?
Not to mention they invented an AWD TL, which Acura does not know about, and they forecast future AWD offerings from Infiniti that are already on the road.
First Geneva, now Melbourne! Is New Zealand or South Africa next?
Even though there's no RHD version yet, Subaru is shopping this car worldwide to see what kind of interest there is in it. I'm convinced that, sooner or later, this car will be sold in all major Subaru markets.
Bob
-Dennis
Autoweek's writing has dropped as of late. A lot. I should just get Automotive News, cut the opinions and just get the facts, Jack.
-juice
Having just completed a road test of the X3 this past weekend my wife and I left the car quickly scratching it off of our list as it felt CHEAP. The dash was poor, the "driver information center" was a one-liner red LED display compared to our MB E series driver command center Multi-line LCD in the gauge cluster, coupled with standard in-dash LCD. The dash top was some sort of crumpled cheap vinyl that would eat any dust rag. The door panels had netting. How cheap can you get. And what was up with those lame tracks inside the rear storage area? Would someone actually put a dirty MTB inside their car? I want space for my dog and gear and I'm not about to have my dog wreck his paws or nails inside those tracks.
Sure, it had power and handling but so does a Dodge Magnum. I want nice leather, a good wood trim package, an intelligent information display, and the car needs to speak quality when you sit in it. Five passengers only, don't waste my time with a folding third-row seat that will be tossed in the trash.
So far the Touareg comes closest to meeting this criteria but the front seating seems a bit confining. (And I'm only 6' 170lbs) The XC 90 is nice but the interior is a bit stark. The Lexus RX 330 is fine but they are everywhere not to mention they are really FWD with pseudo AWD option.
Oh yeah, I also need a 2-inch receiver to mount my bike/ski rack. Those wimpy receivers wont cut it.
So now I'm waiting for the Tribeca and new ML. Hopefully someone will put everything in one package but the longer this goes the more likely I am to move to a hybrid platform like the RX400 or Highlander.
Here's my quandary:
We currently have an MDX, which has been a great family car. We are expecting our second child in a few weeks, and my mother-in-law more or less lives with us as a nanny. That's five seating positions I need at a minimum for weekend errands.
With two car seats in the 2nd row, there is no way to access the third row (without actually removing and reinstalling a car seat), and any room leftover in that 2nd row is tight.
So - we are playing with the thought of replacing the MDX with a vehicle with an "accessible" third row, which I have concluded requires captain's chairs in the 2nd row, or perhaps some other innovative feature I haven't thought of (other than climbing through the rear hatch
First, for those who have viewed the Tribeca, can the middle seat in the 2nd row be "manipulated" to a point to allow 3rd row access?
Other than that, have others experienced and addressed the issue I am facing? If I want AWD and good reliability, it seems I am down to the Sequoia or Sienna.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
http://members.cox.net/harmony.hunter/b9web/images/5.html
So that is definitely a potential issue with child seats. Based on your description, I'd say a Sienna is the perfect vehicle for your needs. I would definitely pass on the Sequoia unless you like piloting battleships....
CRaig
p.s. don't most people put their mother-in-laws on the roof rack?? ;-)
I have similar requirements, and lthough I am sure this will not be a popular notion in the forum,I am buying a Freestyle. The seating position in either the first or second row is excellent for mothers-in-law, as is access to the rear.
Nothing wrong with Siennas though. I don't like them so much, but if you need the full minivan size and AWD, they are probably the best choice.
how having the shoulder seatbelt in place for the middle baby seat would interfere is another question but they have those tether points on the back of the 2nd row, I'm not sure how those work for baby seats as all my kids are pre tether and latch (or whatever its called ) attachments!
I have an 8 seat Venture which is 2/3/3 seating. Its not that a big deal to get into the 3rd row even for an adult , eitehr by folding the 2nd row back down or moving the whole seat forward without folding it down but the B9 is definitely more a squeeze and a gymnastic event to get into the 3rd row without moving the 2nd row seat forward.
Except for the Freestyle, the only easy access to the 3rd row is in a full size minivan.
Bob
I do agree that having 2 child seats sort of makes the seats "fixed", because it's a pain to re-fasten them.
However, what'll happen soon is you'll have the bigger child in a booster seat (40-80 lbs IIRC). That would make folding the seat simple. You use the car's seat belt.
By that time, your MDX or the Tribeca would be perfect.
My 5 year old is a giant, she's the tallest kid in her class. So she was in a booster before we knew it. Our 2 year old means we'll have one fixed child safety seat for another year or two, then we'll be using a pair of booster.
Volvo has one center-mounted built-in booster in the XC90, and that would work for me right now, actually. But I prefer the XC70's option of two built-in boosters on the outsides. The kids need windows so they don't get car sick.
-juice