Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

subearu · February 2005

Even the XC90 3rd row isn't for real adults. At the Chicago show today, there was a sign on the car stating that the 3rd row is for children or small adults only. I took a picture, will upload tomorrow.

-Brian

breld · February 2005

Thank you for the replies on the 3rd row seating issue.

I think clearly the best answer is a minivan. They're cheaper than large SUVs (though the Sienna and Odyssey can get quite pricey), handle better, more fuel-efficient, and provide interior flexibility in a relatively compact package. And the availability of AWD in the Sienna nullifies one of the better arguments for an SUV, IMO. I was very surprised when I heard Honda was not adding AWD on the new Odyssey.

I took a nicely loaded Sienna out for a test drive last week, and noted how much it drove like my MDX (which obviously stands to reason, based on the MDX origins). I haven't taken an Odyssey out yet, but I imagine that experience would be even more similar. So, point is, one of these minivans would meet our needs very well.

With all that said, I find myself drawn to the "big manly" SUV. Although the "big manly" EPA rating on the Sequoia frightens me.

I imagine we'll keep the MDX for a while and "make it work." As if it's such an awful situation to have. Maybe the Tribeca can be a replacement for my car, parked next to the MDX as dual family-haulers. Hmmm, there's an angle to pitch to the wife...

breld · February 2005

Good point on the booster seat. Our oldest son is 21 months old, so it will be a couple of years before we're in that, though he is in the 95th percentile for height. They have to be four years old, regardless of size, is that right?

Speaking of the Volvo, I actually took out an XC90 last week, mostly for kicks. I thought perhaps it would offer more accessibility to the 3rd row than the MDX, but not the case. I was surprised at how the base engine in the XC90 performed. Low HP, but pretty good on torque. Seemed to perform as well as the MDX, likely due to the turbo and the altitude here in Denver.

I really liked the ride and handling, as well as the interior appointments of that XC90. Made me wish we had considered it more when we got the MDX, but at the end of the day, reliability still would have steered us toward the Acura. Come to think of it, the Subaru should compete well with the Volvo - sporty handling, nice interior, a little quirky styling, and Japanese reliability to boot. That's my perception - we'll see about the general buying public's.

rsholland · February 2005

http://www.infopresse.com/article.aspx?id=13752

bat1161 · February 2005

Juice,

I know Subaru used to have an integrated (booster) seat, but I don't see it as an option anymore. I know because my 2000 OB has it. It has come in handy for some friends when they were in with their kids. Why doesn't SOA offer that on the Tribeca?

Mark

volkov · February 2005

I can give you some past experience info on multiple passengers. With triplet sons and granny/nanny support, I have gone down this road in many different configurations in our Sienna and Suburban and many rental vans over the years.
You are basically describing a problem that you won't allow to exist. Complaining about access to the 3rd row with 2 baby seats in the second row means that you intend to put an adult in the last row. BAD idea, and your wife or MIL will quickly veto it after one trip. The 3rd adult ends up exiled back there in what is usually a seat only suitable for kids and is hampered in their ability to provide 2nd row support.
When driving 3 kids we put 2 in the back row, one in the second and then put the 3rd adult as child supervisor in the second row too. Works great with the flip/fold down seat in the Suburban. Actually is worse with both captains chairs in the Sienna because they don't get out of the way as much. When on family trips with just my wife and I, we completely removed one captain's chair to get better open space to move. With 2 kids and 3 adults you'll likely end up with at least one in the back row no matter the vehicle. I would put both back there, then keep the 60% seat folded flat. This gives the second row child supervisor room to manoevre and really helps loading in bad weather ie you can toss everyone into their seats while kneeling on the large flat cargo area you've created in the second row. It is actually easier to load kids into the last row from this second row cargo space than it is to load two baby seats in the second row. This should work just fine with the MDX.
Let me know if any of this is just confusing.
And by the way, you don't want to hear my strategy for 4 kids, nanny and a dog.

Nicholas (father of 3.8 children)

breld · February 2005

Nicholas -

Thanks for the advice. It's a good point I hadn't really considered. The lack of legroom in a 3rd row is mostly a non-issue for a toddler, so it makes sense to use it for that purpose.

As far as your comment "This should work just fine with the MDX," that means no new car!

Oh well, off to the chronic car buyers forum...

ateixeira · February 2005

Volvo probably believes it is safest to limit the weight and size of the passengers back there.

Bruce: I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's by weight. We started using a booster when she passed the 40 lbs mark, because a child seat's built-in belts can only secure that much weight.

For us it was:

0-9 months rear-facing infant seat (she outgrew it)
9-12 months in a rear-facing child seat

1 year until she hit 40 lbs - front-facing child seat, tethered

When she hit 40 lbs - booster seat

Mark - bingo, you have what was a rare option! Too bad they didn't advertise it more, I think few people even knew about it. I think it's brilliant.

-juice

varmint · February 2005

A Nissan Quest might fit the bill. Except the AWD part. With the Quest, you can fold the second row "almost" flat, making access to the 3rd row very easy. Flop half of it down, get the whippersnappers in order, pull it back up, and seat the remaining passengers.

Chrysler has the "more" flat Stow 'n Go seating in their minivan, which would work also. But those second row seats are terrible. The fold feature is nice, but sitting in them ain't so grand. (A seat that works better as a floor!) And then there's quality concerns...

robr2 · February 2005

juice - check the booster 5 point harness, it's probably rated for only 40 lbs as well.

volkov · February 2005

I'm sure it's not that the 40lbs exceeds the strength of the harness, more likely it has to do with testing and certification limits at an industry/government level. The bigger overlooked issue is really size and belt position relative to shoulders. The restraint should extend to attach above shoulders, otherwise the forward force is translated into downward crushing force in the setting of rapid deceleration. Most car seats will also instruct you to move on when the childs head or shoulders reach a certain level regardless of weight. But by using fixed weights I'm sure it's a KISS principle so there's a more accurate compliance by the mistake prone public.

Nicholas

robr2 · February 2005

I believe there are booster seats with 5 point harnesses that are rated to 80 lbs.

Hmm - poking around Britax's web site I discoverd they have a public saftey division that makes police light bars and radar guns.

www.britaxpsd.com

richwood · February 2005

Question for those parents on putting the kids in the 3rd row - does the Tribeca have LATCH or tether hooks available for the 3rd row? I thought it was only the Sienna from my research up here in Canada.

I'll make sure to look this up at the Toronto Auto Show that has just started, but as I'm in the same position as several of the last few posts (Grandparents + one 3yr. old and the next mouth-to-feed due any day), I'm VERY interested in what AWD vehicles suit my needs. I'm even wondering if the Mazda5 will get AWD added in, making it a possibility in the not so distant future...

But I think I have to agree that SIENNA looks the best, for access and availability of AWD. But up here, you can only get curtain airbags in the top-of-the-line LIMITED edition - $51k Canadian. I had hoped Toyota would make it an option (if not standard like Honda on the Odyssey) but no luck thus far, and I'm running out of waiting time!

Lastly, and without having seen it in the flesh yet, is it even POSSIBLE to put 2 child seats on the 60 side of the 60/40 split in the Tribeca? Usually the seats themselves are too wide to be side-by-side.

Love the dialogue folks here - keep it up.

PS - any info on SAAB's version of the Tribeca?

atlgaxt · February 2005

I do not know if I missed anything, but how come I have not seen any posts about Suzuki's version of the Tribeca? Seems like that would have generated a post or two. Obviously, I have no clue what the Subaru Crew finds interesting, as most of my posts land with a thud.

Next, GM will probably try to jam a Daewoo down Subaru's throat

robr2 · February 2005

I have not even heard about this? How old is this development?

rsholland · February 2005

but how come I have not seen any posts about Suzuki's version of the Tribeca?

Because it doesn't exist. There is a rumored Saturn version. Is that what you're referring to?

Bob

robr2 · February 2005

Perhaps he means the Saab version.

jon_in_ct · February 2005

atlgaxt wrote:

I do not know if I missed anything, but how come I have not seen any posts about Suzuki's version of the Tribeca? Seems like that would have generated a post or two. Obviously, I have no clue what the Subaru Crew finds interesting, as most of my posts land with a thud.

The Suzuki Concept-X midsized SUV shown at NAIAS has no connection at all with the Tribeca. In this thread, people are interested in posts about the Subaru Tribeca. Give that a try.

For those who'd like some Concept-X info, try:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101702

ateixeira · February 2005

Rob: I did, that's why we now use the car's seat belts, instead of the built-in ones that come with the booster seat. The booster seat has some guides that help position the belt nicely.

I guess we had a lot of transitions. Our son is big, but he hasn't grown as quickly as my daughter, so he's been in the same child seat for a while.

Zook will use the Equinox/Torrent platform, probably yet another clone. I bet it looks nothing like that concept.

Saab's version of the Tribeca will likely please the folks that find the Subaru edition too much. It ought to be a lot more conservative, I bet. The front will be totally different and my guess is they'll tone down the shoulder J-curve as well.

Pricing is the big question, the 9-2x was way overpriced. If they follow that strategy again, the Saab 9-6X would end up costing $36-45 grand, likely too high to sell in any significant volume.

Then again if they offer $99 leases to GM employees you'll see a bunch at the RenCen parking lot.

-juice

robr2 · February 2005

juice - just checking on the seat. My son just turned 8 and has become a beast. 75 lbs and has been too tall for a booster seat for almost a year now.

Daughter is 5 and just under 40 lbs. But she is in the booster with the shoulder belt because with the winter weather up here she can't wear the 5 point harness with a winter coat.

Massachusetts law says that at 5 years old or 40 lbs they can skip using safety seats altogether.

ateixeira · February 2005

Really? Wow.

The 3rd row in the Tribeca fit my daughter nicely. She's 5 years old, not sure about her exact weight right now.

She fit with the middle seat moved 4" forward, so that means everyone would have room.

And I doubt a booster would be required since the seat is smallish already. I put the seat belt on her and it fit over her shoulder well.

Basically it would be perfect for this stage - she could bring a friend or two and we'd always have space.

-juice

jeffmc · February 2005

LATCH w/tether in all five rear seats.

A good site to check out preliminary specifications is:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/tribeca/tribeca2006.html

ateixeira · February 2005

Very cool. I believe even most vans lack that.

-juice

atlgaxt · February 2005

It will even be powered by the same flat six.

jon_in_ct · February 2005

I'll bet the folks at the Canadian Suzuki/GM joint venture plant are really disappointed now after having spent so much money planing for the new Suzuki SUV with the GM-designed aluminum V6 engine (produced in Japan) built on GM's platform. They must have spent millions (Canadian) on this, and now it's all down the drain thanks to Truck Trend.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101702

sweet_subie · February 2005

they better have it in 3rd row, since it is really meant for kids.

sduford · February 2005

What is it with Subaru and their choice of OEM tires?

I was just on 1010tires.com and noticed that the only tire that is getting worst reviews then the RE-92 is the Eagle LS2 they are putting on the Tribeca! The LS2 got ratings of 1.8 vs 2.4 for the RE-92, this on a scale of 0 to 5.

Come on Subaru, wake up! If you want to play in the near-premium market and pretend that your cars are safe and handle well, put some decent tires on them! THis is not very encouraging...

Sly

wmquan · February 2005

Having both top-tether anchors and lower anchors for LATCH in all five mid-to-rear positions would be very unusual and a real "difference maker."

Is this really confirmed? E.g. has someone seen a vehicle at the show and stuck their fingers between the seatback and the seat cushion to find the lower anchors?

Not that I'm skeptical, but sometimes people confuse the top-tether anchors (which are technically part of LATCH) with the lower anchor points (which most people think of as LATCH). A lot of vehicles have five tether anchor points, but they only have two pairs of lower anchors.

A lot of parents would love to have 3 pairs in the middle, two in the back.

sweet_subie · February 2005

My OB 01 has Firestone Wilderness tires which was criticized the most. Now, i have 40k miles & the tires still have some life in it.

sduford · February 2005

Good for you but thread life is only one aspect of a tire's performance.

Dry handling/braking, wet handling/breaking, steering response, ride comfort, and noise level are all more important to me then thread life. In fact, an extended thread life generally goes against good handling.

Sly

ateixeira · February 2005

William: good question. I've only noticed the tether anchors.

Next one of us to see it again, put that on the list to check, OK?

-juice

indefatigable · February 2005

You know, Subaru has gotten quite a bit of crap for designing the B9 the way they did, but I think it takes guts to design a sport ute that's not a cookie cutter rip off of another ute or simply an old design polished up with new head and taillights.

Subaru is about thinking different, thinking outside the box, and they have some of the most loyal customers in the industry. GM or Ford would KILL to have as many repeat buyers as Subaru does.

I think the B9 is bold and innovative, and if you see it in person, it truly is a flowing work of art. And the interior... lets just say it gives the new Lexus 400h interior a run for its money.

Sign me up, as soon as the B9 is released I'll be putting in my order for a fully loaded model. Don't let the detractors fool you, they're just jealous that the best their favorite auto brands can come up with is the same ol', same ol'.

Here's to originiality... is anyone else with me?

subearu · February 2005

I don't recall seeing tether anchors at least on the rear seats, but not being able to actually crawl around the B9 didn't help. If nobody gets to it by the time I go to the Milwaukee show, I'll get pics of LATCH and tether anchors.

-Brian

sweet_subie · February 2005

firestone wilderness rides comfortably as well. In fact, i will replace only with the same ones

jeffmc · February 2005

Here's what Joe at cars101.com says: "Middle seat's tethers are on the back of the seat, rear seat's tethers in the back of the cargo area."

wmquan · February 2005

But anything on the back of the seat or in the back of the cargo area are anchors for top-tether straps only, and not for full LATCH attachment. LATCH requires a pair of lower anchors the bottom of the seatback, accessible from the front of the seat.

Joe says:

"tether and anchor for all middle and rear seats. Middle seat's tethers are on the back of the seat, rear seat's tethers in the back of the cargo area."

So did he mean "just anchors for top tether straps for all middle and rear seats" or did he mean "lower anchors and top-tether anchors for all middle and rear seats?"

Unfortunately it's probably the former.

NHTSA says:

Q. How do I know if my vehicle has LATCH anchors?

A. The lower LATCH anchors in a vehicle will typically be visible in the 'seat bight' (the intersection of the seat cushion and seat back) or identified with a mark on the vehicle seat back. Top tether anchors, depending on whether you have a sedan, SUV, or minivan, may be located on the rear filler panel, on the back of or slightly under the rear vehicle seat or on the roof of the vehicle. If you're unsure if your vehicle has LATCH, check your vehicle owner's manual.

But I just emailed Joe for clarification on his statement, and will post any response. Here's hoping that Subaru did something truly unique.

njswamplands · February 2005

thinking outside the box

between pushing some really heavy envelope around and for gods sake go outside to think if ya gotta problem with a box....

ahhhh stop the cliches

njswamplands · February 2005

Sign me up, as soon as the B9 is released I'll be putting in my order for a fully loaded model

ok so if it gets 1 star on the crash tests and you still game. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

njswamplands · February 2005

is anyone else with me?

anyone see a bandwagon around. doh i used a cliche

c_hunter · February 2005

Since the Outback has had lower LATCH anchors for a few years, I would assume the Tribeca also has them in the 2nd row. The seat base slides, but is not removeable leading me to think it can act as an anchor point.

Craig

trueawd · February 2005

It's a great site except the wheel base is WRONG. I tried to email Joe but he has not changed it. His site states 106.2 for the wheel base, but it's actually 108.2.

As far as the tethers for the 3rd row they are on the floor behind. Checked last night at the Chicago Autoshow.

wmquan · February 2005

As far as the tethers for the 3rd row they are on the floor behind.

I'm afraid we're confusing "top tether anchors" and "lower LATCH anchors." Top tether anchors are where you anchor the top tether of a child seat to. From the top of the car seat to either the back of the vehicle's seat, the floor, or sometimes even the roof.

Most SUV's have them for every seating position behind the first row. E.g. the MDX had five in the back of the seats since it was launched, the Pilot has six.

Lower LATCH anchors are the anchor pairs between the seat cushion and seatback, that attach the bottom of a car seat. Most vehicles only have two pairs, in the second row.

You usually attach a LATCH seat using both the lower anchor pair and the top tether. It's not a LATCH install if you aren't using a lower anchor pair.

Since the Outback has had lower LATCH anchors for a few years, I would assume the Tribeca also has them in the 2nd row.

There's no need to assume that the Tribeca would have at least a pair of lower LATCH anchors in the 2nd row -- they're now required by NHTSA regulations. NHTSA has specific regulations on how many lower LATCH anchor pairs a vehicle has to have, and how many top-tether anchors it has to have. Unfortunately they let manufacturers make vehicles with more top-tether anchors than lower LATCH anchor pairs.

The questions were whether the Tribeca has a pair of lower LATCH anchors in the middle of the second row (which most vehicles don't), and whether it had two pairs of lower LATCH anchors in the 3rd row (which very few vehicles have, certainly not SUV's that I know of).

Joe responded to my query very quickly (admirable). He said he meant that there are top-tether anchors for all positions in the second and third row (like a lot of SUV's have had for a while). But he indicated that there are only two lower LATCH anchor pairs in the second row.

He pointed out that one can put a LATCH seat in the middle using the inner anchors. That's also not uncommon in vehicles, and it doesn't meet NHTSA standards (though many parents do make use of that).

But here's the GREAT news -- Joe just replied to me again and he says the one he saw had lower LATCH anchors in the third row! So unless he's mistaken or the one he saw wasn't indicative of what will make production, that is a significant differentiating feature. I can't think of any other mid-sized SUV's that has lower LATCH anchors in the third row.

Great info from Joe. He replied to my second message in five minutes.

The next car-show attendee who can crawl inside the Tribeca, please confirm all this!

subearu · February 2005

that tethor anchors can be top mounted (like the Outback and Foresters ceiling mounts behind the 2nd row) OR they can be on the floor or rear of the seat (Matrix, MPV, and apparently the Tribeca). The front LATCH connectors (which secure the seat w/o the seat belt) are always in that space where the seat back and seat bottom meet.

So, what we need someone to do is feel that space on the 3rd row seats to see if the front LATCH anchors are there.

-Brian

atlgaxt · February 2005

Sorry for passing along bad info. I noticed on the Truck Trend website the info on the Suzuki seems to be corrected. But in the magazine, they talked about the fold flat three row seating, the flat engine in the Suzuki version of the Tribeca. I guess they make stuff up to fill space.

robr2 · February 2005

Actually you don't need to feel - -just look for the symbols indicating the lower anchor points. They are supposed to be marked on the seat.

subearu · February 2005

That is true, you'll see the little seat/anchor symbol on both sides just above the location of the front LATCH anchors. Or at least you should be able to.

-Brian

alpha01 · February 2005

Last night, I was at my alma mater in University Park, PA, and lo and behold- outside of one of the more upscale bars- was a brand new Tribeca, in Silver!

I literally did a quadruple take. Unfortunately, I could not peer inside to see equipment and 5 vs 7 seater, as it was snowing at a good clip and I would have had to use my arm to clear the windows. No camera on me either, unfortunately.

The license plate was Jersey, and read 'Vehicle MFR' at the bottom, under the actual #, so Im guessing the folks at Subaru HQ in Cherry Hill are piloting the vehicles before debut.

All in my party thought it looked sharp, but I must say that a good amount of snow was covering the aviation fascia.

Overall, a very pleasant surprise!!!

-Joe

ateixeira · February 2005

You may be the only person that likes it more than I do.

Bold and innovative. Absolutely!

-juice

ateixeira · February 2005

Cool, we knew they've produced many, lots are in testing. C&D and MT have both tested one.

I hope rumors of a Ride-n-Drive in SF are true, if so I hope to go and meet up with our Bay area buddies.

-juice

rsholland · February 2005

Money Matters on Comcast 8, the TV station, and they we're doing the show on the new cars at the auto show. Not sure which show, but I think it may have been Philly, as most of their programs are from there.

In any event, the Tribeca was mentionedwith a "V6!" Obviously the guy describing it was clueless.

The clincher, however, was at the end of the show, when the two co-hosts drove off in a Seacrest Green Metallic Tribeca (with roof racks) that looked like the one at the Philly show!

Bob

Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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