Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright · January 2012

it DOES look like that, doesn't it? I have no idea what goes on in the trunk of a Citroen SM. Something strange I'm sure.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2012

http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/

And you can see some of these plastic wonders in action right here: (video)

Trailer for "Johnny Dark"

The 1954 Movie Johnny Dark prominently featured 5 fiberglass sports cars
including the Woodill Wildfire, Victress S1A, Glasspar G2, Grantham Stardust,
and Irwin Lancer. Other cars included the Chuck Tatum Sports Car, a Kurtis
Sports Car (KSC), and a Sport Custom roadster built by Bohman and Sons called
the "Bohman Special."

explorerx4 · February 2012

It's probably an aftermarket option for keeping the Escargot fresh.

explorerx4 · February 2012

I was ready to reach for the air sickness bag after about the 6th or 7th curve!

tjc78 · February 2012

Vega!

xwesx · February 2012

Totally worth it. Just look at that beauty! You would have ladies swooning as you passed.... :P

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

why you might even beat a 5 year old minivan 0-30 mph!

tjc78 · February 2012

I don't know squat about Vegas..... but, is that price even close to reality? In my mind that car can't be worth more than 10K?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

No, it's about 3X Reality. It's an R3 ad---LOL!

You might get $12K for a stunning, show quality example if....IF....you can find one of the handful of buyers globally who would step up for that price.

It's an interesting curiosity of a car, but gets no respect, as Rodney Dangerfield would say.

tjc78 · February 2012

OK, thought so. I just noticed they also have a 96 Caprice with 8k on it for 21,900 so I guess they are looking for 3X on everything.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

it's called trolling---in the hope that you may actually find someone who is misinformed enough to pay 3X market price for something.

A dealer would be most fortunate to even sell a low miles '96 Impala SS for that kind of money.

bhill2 · February 2012

it's called trolling

I've heard it said that you shouldn't even answer an ad that doesn't list an asking price. It indicates a seller hoping that somebody will offer him more than even he thinks it's worth, and isn't yet ready to consider realistic offers. How do you handle one of these ads (assuming you're interested?)

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

I wouldn't answer a "no price" ad on a car I couldn't inspect, but if I could easily go and see it, or send someone to see it, then there's nothing wrong with making a serious offer, no matter WHAT the price says. If you really want a low miles Cosworth Vega, you just offer your $12K or whatever and point to the "show quality" price guide listing.

You never know what a seller is going to do. You might get a call back 3 months from now, once the seller realizes the car is epoxied to his floor.

Now, this advice applies to quality merchandise. If some maniac on Craigslist is asking $50,000 for a 1968 Camaro 6 cylinder coupe with no power steering and rust in the floors, don't even bother.

There's a difference I think between the rat-like cunning of a dealer and the crazed delusions of some guy barricaded in his barn.

gsemike · February 2012

There's a difference I think between the rat-like cunning of a dealer and the crazed delusions of some guy barricaded in his barn.

Exquisitely stated

hpmctorque · February 2012

I can't imagine paying $12,000, or anything similar, for that Cosworth Vega. Wouldn't the value drop like a stone, if you put any miles on it, even a low number per year? If that were the case, then it has no functional value. Sure, it has some historical value, but $12,000 worth, or even a somewhat lesser amount? Somewhat interesting, yes, but it's not that significant, in my opinion.

Just stating my opinion, knowing full well that some will see it very differently. I mean, how many people would be happy with a miled up '88 Z, a '99 TL and a '07 A4 (the latter two with average mileage)? Come to think of it, I'm the one who's probably nuts.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

One Rule of Opposable Thumb I use is:

If there's an organized club for the car (specifically that car), then there's probably a market for it.

http://cosworthvega.com/

Maybe not a *great* market, but at least somebody cares.

andre1969 · February 2012

The Cosworth Vegas had a really big turn out last year at the GM show in Carlisle. They had the whole back wall of one of the big buildings devoted to them, as well as a bunch outside...

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

There you go...it's not a completely forgotten automobile.

tjc78 · February 2012

Every car (heck everything) has some sort of fan base. I'm a member of a Panther platform enthusiast site. That's probably only a few ticks above a Cosworth Vega site.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

Yeah but an organized club that stages tours and shows---that's a cut above the "I Love My Dodge Omni" bumper sticker.

fintail · February 2012

In Germany, they've had an organized fintail group with tours and shows since the 80s. I've never seen anything similar here.

andre1969 · February 2012

Every car (heck everything) has some sort of fan base. I'm a member of a Panther platform enthusiast site. That's probably only a few ticks above a Cosworth Vega site.

Actually, the Panther has a pretty good turnout at the Carlisle Ford show in June. Lemko always puts his Grand Marquis (leave it to Lemko to have a Ford product that still manages to be a "GM"!) on the field, to help represent.

lemko · February 2012

There is? Heck, maybe I oughta be there with my 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS? What's the website?

tjc78 · February 2012

I'm on Grandmarq.net, small site cool group. There is a heavy influence on "box" Panthers 79-91

Crown Vic.net is great for the later models. There are a lot of 4.6 gurus there.

explorerx4 · February 2012

Andre,
When was that show? I remember seeing one on the highway in that area back in early November.

andre1969 · February 2012

The GM show is in June, the weekend after Father's Day. So the one you saw was probably a local.

explorerx4 · February 2012

It was local... to Connecticut! Had a CT 'Early American' plate on it.
I was somewhere near Hershey when I saw it.
Not as nice as those your pictures.

andre1969 · February 2012

that's a cut above the "I Love My Dodge Omni" bumper sticker.

Oh, on that subject, look at what the mechanic who's working on my DeSoto had in his shop a few years ago...

So, somebody still loves the danged things! Main reason I took a pic of this was because I really love that color. I think Chrysler called it "Teal Frost" metallic or something like that, but I'm too lazy to go look up the '79 brochures online right now. Years ago, there used to be a St. Regis I'd see locally that was a 2-tone, dark green over light green, that I really liked the looks of. And, ironically, the day after I bought my '79 5th Ave, it showed up for sale, right around the corner from where I was living at the time.

I knew where the car "lived"...about 5 miles from my condo, as I remembered it from my pizza delivery days. So, when it showed up near my home for sale, it was almost as if the car was searching me out!

fintail · February 2012

Is that thing restored? Is it an earlier model with a later high mount light added?

I remember back around 1985, my dad looked at an Omni to replace his Horizon. I don't know what the model was, but it was very plush compared to the Horizon. The Horizon was replaced by an S-10 Blazer.

andre1969 · February 2012

I know the mechanic did some paint and body work on it, but for the most part, I think it was just in very nice original condition. And yeah, that center brakelight was an add-on. This car was a '79. I remember asking the mechanic if it was a '79, and he was surprised I got the year so right. And, it was because of that color. I'm not positive, but I think it was only offered in 1979. Either that, or it just happened to be really popular that year.

fintail · February 2012

It is a nice color, to me it is very mid-60s looking , which was probably the apex of style. I think the wood trim on those was only offered through 81 or so, which is what clued me in, along with the old style "Omni" badge.

My dad really liked his Horizon and kind of regretted moving on, although it was getting worn out. I remember when he had a hobby car itch sometime in the late 80s, he looked at a Horizon being flipped by a local curbstoner. It was brown, think a 78 or 79, but it was a mess, for $400. I also remember he looked at a pretty immaculate Pinto Cruisin Wagon that he wanted, but my mother wouldn't allow. Can't recall when I last saw one of those.

explorerx4 · February 2012

1960 JagUar

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

No, not in my opinion....first off, it's a far less valuable 2.4 car; second, these vehicles are notoriously difficult to restore due to the way they are constructed, and three, if it's rusted badly it has frame damage (most of them do) and so we are talking rotisserie time, building a frame jig, etc. It's a monstrous job on a car very few people even care about.

Now if it were a US left hand drive 3.8S with wire wheels, 4-speed manual transmission, overdrive and a decent interior, I'd reconsider, since that version of the car would be worth perhaps 4X as much when done.

fintail · February 2012

Definite parts car, those things are insanely expensive to restore, you've got 50-75K looking you in the eye there. It would be cheaper to restore a W112 fintail or even a 6.3 I bet, as structurally they are simple.

Cool vintage style "CH" identifier anyway.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

Oh, you'd gobble up $50,000 easy and I doubt that would be enough.

Of course, you'd be hard put to justify spending that on a fintail or a 6.3, too, but at least you'd have something interesting when you were done.

qbrozen · February 2012

Why, yes, I did modify on a budget.

I know its rare, but I can't understand most of what you are saying!

Where exactly is this 3rd door?

Redefines Fugly.

This actually could be of interest.

I'm listing this for you boat lovers.

If it was a 5.7, I might actually be interested in a weird way.

I'm not sure what's going on here. If the swap is done and it runs and drives, could be a fun car for little money.

Could be cool

cheap luxury

fintail · February 2012

Deal of the lot appears to be the wagon.

I bet the TC has 500K miles on it or more. The truck isn't an 87 - well the cab could be but nothing else. I think Lemko owned that Caprice once.

Peugeot ad has me fearing for the future.

texases · February 2012

The Pug ad: "has some rust but nothing that can be fixed "

Truer words....

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

The Peugeot ad reminds me of a friend who was a boat dealer...he'd go out and look at a boat advertised and usually make a very fair offer based on what he saw...sometimes the owners would come up with that old "What? XXX Dollars? Why, I'd BURN IT first!"

And then my friend would take out a book of matches and toss it on the deck and walk away---LOL!

(He was a very big guy, by the way).

andre1969 · February 2012

If it was a 5.7, I might actually be interested in a weird way.

No, I don't think you'd want a 1984 Caprice wagon with a 5.7. Or ANY GM car from 1984 with a 5.7, unless it's a Corvette or copcar. Only other 5.7 that year was the Olds Diesel. :sick: For $1,000 it seems like a steal, provided it's not hiding anything evil. I like the '89 Caprice LS and the 2001 Town Car, too.

qbrozen · February 2012

Nothing would stop someone from putting the gasser 5.7 in it, though, which I'm sure has been done many times.

andre1969 · February 2012

Nothing would stop someone from putting the gasser 5.7 in it, though, which I'm sure has been done many times.

Yeah, that's certainly true. Actually, a big-block would even fit in there, although that's not as common of a conversion.

When the 305 on these cars does finally need to be replaced, I think it might actually be fairly common to drop a Chevy 350 in, instead. I believe all the external stuff bolts right up, and the 350 is so common I think it might be even cheaper than a 305.

As for the Olds 350 Diesel, supposedly it makes for a great gasoline conversion, because of the extra-beefy block. You can really boost its power because of that. Alas, it just wasn't beefy enough for Diesel conversion. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

Chevy power is so cheap to buy these days, from professional builders, that it seems pointless to build up your own block anymore--especially when you can get reliable, bench-tested horsepower for around $3-4K. (and up).

qbrozen · February 2012

Hell, in that case, they've gone up from what I remember. Of course, that was a long time ago.

just taking a quick look...
290 hp for $2k.
Of course, that's missing quite a bit. How can you advertise the hp without an intake and carb?? Kind of a key component to output there.

Here is about the cheapest 350 these guys have that comes with most components attached.

Or more displacement and power for the same price.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2012

Exactly. $4,000 bucks for a long block with 330HP! Try to build a 330HP Ferrari or Porsche engine for that---lotsa luck. You might get the cylinder heads done for that.

lemko · February 2012

I owned a black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic. My Grandpop had a 1989 model in a similar color to the one in that ad.

bhill2 · February 2012

Nothing would stop someone from putting the gasser 5.7 in it, though, which I'm sure has been done many times.

OK, a question. I think I know the answer but here goes; the reason that the 5.7 liter gasser wasn't offered was that it wasn't EPA certified for the Caprice in 1984. I would think that it would be illegal to put in a 5.7 from that year. However, it should be legal to put in a 5.7 from another, later, year when it was certified. Is that right?

texases · February 2012

Being more than 25 years old, can you put any engine you want in it?

andre1969 · March 2012

I would think that it would be illegal to put in a 5.7 from that year. However, it should be legal to put in a 5.7 from another, later, year when it was certified. Is that right?

I think you might be able to get away with putting in a 5.7 from an Impala police car, or a Corvette from 1984, but not sure. But anything newer than 1984 should be fine. Anything from 1983 and earlier though, I'm sure would be illegal. But also probably almost impossible to get caught.

I'd guess that the biggest hurdle would be if you lived in a county that had emissions testing, AND wanted to register the car as a regular car, rather than historic, modified, street rod, or other limited-use.

Where I live in Maryland, for example, they still emissions-test everything from 1977-present, unless you get historic or modified tags. Even then, emissions tests usually give a lot of leeway, especially with older vehicles. I remember testing my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, and compared its numbers with my 2000 Intrepid. While it put out more pollutants than the Intrepid, the numbers were still so low that it would have easily passed the stricter 2000 standard, and passed the 1985 with flying colors.

qbrozen · March 2012

As someone else stated, you could register as a special exception type car and not have to go through inspection at all (here in NJ). But even if i took it to inspection, I don't know how or why they would even look under the hood and figure out that I had a different sized engine. As long as it isn't polluting, I don't think they care. People do engine swaps all the time, even on much newer cars, with no inspection consequences.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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