Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lilengineerboy · August 2006

1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo FOR SALE - $1000

fintail · August 2006

Shouldn't an 88 have flush/composite headlights?

jlflemmons · August 2006

I was buying the story until we got to the "ac blows cold air".

No way that sucker has been sitting for fifteen years without maintenance and is still with a full freon charge. The compressor seals would have leaked down in that time.

I have read the ad about four times, and something just seems hinky. If that car is what she says, and she is asking $1K, it would have been gone in an hour, tops.

fintail · August 2006

I agree...something is up. With that mileage and condition, the car would be worth a few times that, even with deferred maintenance. Those old Montes have a following.

I still somehow don't think it's even an 88.

jlflemmons · August 2006

Father in law called today to tell me the uncle wants to sell the Caddy. Uncle Buck should have quit driving 15 years ago, but they do live in a tiny little town.

Anyway, he buys a new Caddy every couple of years, and I don't think the last four or five saw 10K miles. How do you price something like this? Best I can figure is 25-27K?

Oh, I think he said DeVille. That's what Buck always liked to drive.

jlflemmons · August 2006

"but it's old so I can't guarantee anything."

I believe this is what is referred to as legal disclaimer on that Monte Carlo

andre1969 · August 2006

the flush/composite headlight model was called the LS, for "Luxury Sport", and was offered from 1986-1988. It slotted in between the base sport coupe and the SS. I know that in 1986 you could still get the base sport coupe, with the old rectangular headlights, because that's what I had. However, I dunno if you could still get it in 1988.

1988 was a very abbreviated year for the Monte. Production wrapped up by December of 1987, and GM only ran off about 25,000 Montes that year. I thought they were all LSes and SSes, but I guess it's possible the base sport coupe lasted through then. Anybody got a reference book handy?

The LS also had a nicer velour interior, and not that "wet rat" look that seemed to permeate the base model and the SS. And the LS had SS-style taillights, which were a bit sleeker than the base Monte.

That model year they also ran off about 25,000 Cutlass Supreme "Classics". However, the RWD Regal and Grand Prix finished up in 1987. For some reason, Pontiac and Buick got their FWD W-bodies to the market a few months sooner than Olds. And Chevy wouldn't make it until 1990, with the Lumina.

lemko · August 2006

That '69 Eldo looks pretty nice for $2,500 - a bargain if the car's in decent shape. The Packard coupe appears to be the low-end Packard Six.

lemmer · August 2006

My friend and I put off the RX300/Accord V6 trade for a while, but now his dad wants the Accord, and my friend might want my RX300. That is all good, but it leaves without any tranportation.

Next up, a guy it work wants to sell his 240SX because a baby seat won't fit in it. It looks to be a '96 base model in nice used car shape. I guess the color is burgundy. 155K miles and an automatic. Still has pink sorority stickers and license plate frame on it. How much should I pay this guy before he trades it for a Camry? Or is a 240SX too girly for an incredibly manly man like me to drive for a couple of months? It is so hard to price these because all I can find are complete piles of crap or highly modified ones or sometimes highly modified piles of crap.

jlflemmons · August 2006

2004 Jack-Donkey 4-Hoof-Drive

Light brown accented with dark brown cross design on withers and spine, excellent fuel economy, certainly has a kick in it. Answers to "Donkey-Hotie"
$1250

http://www.davidsonmotor.net/used-cars.asp

qbrozen · August 2006

Hey, isn't that Big Enus's car at the bottom of the page that we joked about a while back?

I wonder when he'll drop the price.

I like the Bluebird bus. Would make a good home for DonkeyHotie. hehe.

qbrozen · August 2006

How do you price a late model Caddy?

Edmunds, or KBB, or auction value plus a few bucks. Pick yer poison.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

yeah 25K sounds like more than enough. You may want to read Road & Track's longterm Cadillac road test though in the Sept. 2006 issue. Basically the car disintegrated at 50,000 miles.

Of course you still have warranty, and that's a very good thing on a domestic car. I wouldn't see this car as serving you for more than a few years though. Why don't you check on depreciation values and see how that looks--maybe you could buy it and then bail at 50,000 and get the best part out of the car for yourself and still recover some $$$ for what will probably still be relatively low miles in the year 2009.

qbrozen · August 2006

well, hell, if you'll just resell it down the line, don't buy it. The car will continue to depreciate like day-old bread. My guess is you could stick it in a garage and never drive it and it will still drop another $15k in the next 3 years.

andre1969 · August 2006

Looks like that '76 Eldorado is a close match to Big Enis's Caddy.

I kinda like the '89 3/4 ton big block Suburban on that Texas dealer's homepage. The '96 Roadhazzard ain't bad, either.

Is Donkey-Hotie about to get it on with that goat? What is the average retail price of a jackass these days?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

'96 Nissan 240SX -- about $2,000 seems all the money in the world. Those are some ugly number of miles, so seller has to get real here. They wouldn't give him more than $500 in a trade in--the dealer will just wholesale it to Budapest Motors anyway in the bad part of town.

It's not too girlie a car for you...you could make it more manly I'm sure...maybe zebra skin slip covers?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

You aren't far off...in three years that 2005 Caddy should be worth about $12,500 less....so 1/2 the price he paid for it. That ain't great but I've seen worse....try a Saab or Jaguar for depreciation whiplash.

qbrozen · August 2006

they are all horrible (meaning luxo-cars that are under the american umbrella in some way).

My Volvo didn't do so great, either ... but at least I drove it ALOT.

jlflemmons · August 2006

Hey,I am not about to drive that Caddy. I'm just going to tell him about what it is worth and let 'em dump it.

CarMax will give about 21K for it. I would go with that and just avoid the hassle. It isn't like he really needs the money.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

Well 21K is wholesale more or less. They could flip it and make $5K if they are patient and if they can sell it.

lemmer · August 2006

A local Sunbeam Tiger. My price guide says $17-29K.

'71 Mustang Convertible. The guy just bought it for $3K, and now he wants $5K. At least he is honest about that.

$34,500 for a Karmann Ghia?

lilengineerboy · August 2006

I think an unrestored KG is on my list. Its reasonably cheap, reasonably plentiful, parts are relatively easy to find (JC Whitney even) and I won't feel terrible if I screw it up or its not 100% original. Better still, I have a chance in hell of breaking even someday maybe...okay not really but it will keep me out of trouble for the winter.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

Unfortunate color on the Tiger...well at least he has the certificate of authenticity. These cars can be easily faked and the fakes are difficult to spot...you have to snoop around underneath and checked for welded up battery boxes, etc. The VIN won't tell you anything. So beware of buying a tarted up Alpine made into a Tiger...we call them "Algers". He might get the low $20Ks but $29K seems unlikely. Fun car to drive? Well, sorta, if you like steering with the gas pedal and having your shins burned off.

Karmann Ghia -- wasn't that the name of the gay choreographer's assistant in Mel Brooks "The Producers"? Funny movie.

Ghias are cheap to repair MECHANICALLY but not cosmetically. They are unibodies and the fenders don't come off like on a bug. Also, any trim pieces are very very expensive. So all in all, not an easy restoration if you have to re-work the body or replace missing pieces. Your best friend will be a welding torch.

fintail · August 2006

Not a project, just a dumb ad...what's this thing at, 3x retail? Do people understand book values or even TMV?

lemmer · August 2006

I just had a moment of enlightenment. I apparently turned off my emotorcons at some point. I couldn't figure out when everyone started typing : confuse : and : sad : in their posts. I thought it was some new kind of internet lingo, like ROTFL or something.

bumpy · August 2006

If you can get it anywhere under $3000, jump all over it. You can scrape the stickers off. 240SXs are ALL miled up at this point, so 155k doesn't matter. The auto knocks about $500 off, ~~but being a '96 it has the more desirable kouki nose and should be a 5-lug~~. If you ever get bored, you can do a 5-speed conversion, toss in a blacktop SR20DET, and make a man car out of it.

Edit: I forgot the koukis were '97-98.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

Why doesn't 155K matter bumpy? A car's pretty worn out at 155K if you ask me. No reason to pay normal prices for a car that's basically 85% used up. That warrants a substantial discount.

Fer instance, if I had a car with 10,000 miles and told you a connecting rod went through the hood, you'd say "oh, man, that's pretty unusual"....but if I told you on that 240SX thta the engine disintegrated on the highway, you'd say "well what do you expect for 155,000 miles?"

xwesx · August 2006

This is a case of a "seller" not really wanting to sell something. He figures that since it was so well maintained all these years, someone else should pay for it. I would say $3500 TOPS for this one - even if it is the best example out there. :sick:

My grandmother had one of these that, other than the color (and it being a '91), could have been its twin. She traded it on a 1997 F350 crew LB that had a "Waldoch" conversion on it. The dealership wanted $46,000 for the truck and she ended up paying $31K out the door. I have no idea how the dealership wrote up the trade-in value, but she swears she got $15,000 for her Lincoln. Hahah... I hate to tell her otherwise....

bumpy · August 2006

The timing chain on the KA24DE usually craps out around 175k, but otherwise the entire drivetrain was well overengineered. The bushings and suspension bits will have to start being replaced before too long, but that's true of any car driven for ten years. The 240SX is the kind of car that rewards such attention.

andre1969 · August 2006

that this is kinda purty. I think the red interior contrasts nicely with the silver. This is the front-end that my '76 should have. Looks like it has cloth seats, too.

As usual, I wish they'd say what engine it has. "8-cylinder" doesn't really narrow it down, as there were 5 of them available that year. 260, 350-2bbl, 400-4bbl, 455-4bbl, and something I'm forgetting. 305 maybe? Or a 350-4bbl?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

I'm kinda skeptical. A car with 155K is like an old man 75 years old. He could chug along for years or he could drop dead tomorrow.

fintail · August 2006

Nice example of this little rat

Bulletproof SWB W140 eh? No way. I wonder if he'd let me shoot at it, just to be sure.

fintail · August 2006

And it doesn't book for anything near that.

My old boss (who mercifully retired) had a 96 or 97 TC she bought new, and would always whine about the low trade in value. What did she expect?

fintail · August 2006

If you're looking for a car that will break down...a lot...

ghulet · August 2006

I like the part about 'Lincoln does not currently make this size luxury car'--huh? Oh, so that's what makes yours special, I see....yes, the current Town Car is a whopping five inches shorter than a '90, if we're going to split hairs

andre1969 · August 2006

yes, the current Town Car is a whopping five inches shorter than a '90, if we're going to split hairs

Yeah, I thought that was kinda funny, too! However, one thing I noticed, last time I sat in a Town Car at the auto show, is they just don't seem as roomy inside as what I remember the older ones being. Unless I'm still growing, which I would hope not at the age of 36!

Just for kicks (and to kill time, waiting for my garage floor to dry out so I can finally paint it...yay!), I looked up some interior volume specs on www.fueleconomy.gov.

2006 Town Car: 112/21 (passenger/trunk volume)
1990 Town Car: 118/22
1985 Town Car: 116/22

So it actually IS smaller inside. Not enough to make it noticeable for most people, I'd imagine. I wonder what they did to it with the latest style to make it lose 6 cubic feet of interior space? A foot of trunk room is pretty inconsequential at that size. IIRC, the 2007 Camry lost something like 2 cubic feet, going from ~17 to ~15. That would be more noticeable.

Just for comparison the biggest car in my fleet, my '79 NYer is something like 108/21 IIRC so I guess I shouldn't whine about the new Town Car not being roomy enough. Especially when you consider my NYer rides a slightly longer wheelbase and I think it's about 5-6 inches longer.

I think the newer cars get a lot of that interior volume because they're tall, though. That's not necessarily going to make a car feel bigger inside like more legroom or shoulder room would.

Last weekend I sat in a 1974 NYer 4-door hardtop. I found some specs once on a '78, and it was only EPA-rated at around 106/22! Yet that sucker felt huge inside to me! It was harder to get into and out of than a newer car because the doors were thick and the openings weren't that big, and the whole car sits kinda low. But once inside, it just felt vast compared to any car built today.

Still, having a few more cubic feet of interior room doesn't justify the high price they want for that "classic" 1990! :P

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

the TR7 is so pathetic that experienced mechanics recommend you install 2 or THREE head gaskets to try and keep the head from warping. That is so sad. Problem? Bad engineering...the head bolts are drilled diagonally, and there's not enough of them to hold the head down properly.

Clever machining and other drastic measures can allegedly cure this.

andre1969 · August 2006

I liked the TR-7. That angular wedge shape looked really futuristic back then. It made the TR-6 look like a little bug-eyed casket on wheels.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

Styling was okay for the time, but hasn't held up very well....the "wedge" is definitely out of fashion. I'm amazed Corvette got away with it for so long, especially the Kamm butt---it's a very unattractive automotive shape to my eyes. I can't think of any wedged body style I like very much. Maybe the Porsche 914 sorta kinda....but that's not really a total wedge. The early MR2s or Subaru XTs---ugh! Don't work for me.

fintail · August 2006

Hmmmm....a mint pristine concours one is a $3500 car, this one would probably take about $7000 if not more to get to that point...sounds like a bargain! Oh yeah, I like the "G"...and the leaning wheels are a nice touch

Looks sound in the pics

Could be a nice driver

Not a project, but I wonder if it could even be brought into the states

bumpy · August 2006

Anything can be brought into the US if your bank statement has ~~ten or more~~ eight (ten for exotics) digits before the decimal point. Of course, if you do have that kind of money, you can pick something better than a vest-pocket R-class.

british_rover · August 2006

Just looks like an expensive Xa or Xb whatever the pointy nosed one is.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2006

Wow, it really DOES look like an xA! And only 3X the price!

andre1969 · August 2006

looks nice in the pics, especially for $450. It's funny seeing it spelled "Galaxy", which is the astronomical spelling, which actually looks wrong to me because of the way Ford always spelled it. I know I've muffed up on more than a few reports and presentations at NASA by mis-typing "Galaxie"!

Shows where my brain is, I guess. Maybe that's a sign I should've gone into the automotive field instead of aerospace.

british_rover · August 2006

Yeah I know isn't that insane.

The new Merc GL450 also looks like the GX470 from lexus.

Poor mecedes really needs to get back on track style wise or just give up on creating all of these new vehicle segments.

fintail · August 2006

Funny thing, there's been a Ford "Galaxy" minivan in Europe for about 10 years.

re: Mercedes styling, I won't disagree. Some reforms need to be made. Looking like a Lexus is not a good thing (although Lexus does own the pretentious side of the SUV market - at least around here where the RX is the trophy wife vehicle of choice, so I can see why they might do it)

The bigger they are, the harder they fall

qbrozen · August 2006

that infiniti ad is just full of great jokes:

The motor does not run, I actually have never tried running the car since buying it but do know that it has at least a blown headgasket, if not rings as well .... This would be an easy fixer...

ummm... wait ... come again?? If he thinks an engine rebuild is an easy fix ... maybe I could pay him to do it? Ya think? What would it take? An easy job like that? Two 6-packs?

$1200 obo (Please no lowballers!)

How exactly do you lowball a $1200 asking price? I mean, even going halfsies is ONLY $600.

steine13 · August 2006

That picture ain't fair... the B doesn't look anything like the xA except the general layout.. 'course they all look like that if they're tall five-doors.
Also, the B is quite a bit bigger, especially inside.

My mom's got an '03 A class. Not my favorite car in the world, but if you need something small, with decent room inside and good safety, it's a realistic choice.

Seems to me Mercedes needs to decide who they want to be. I wish they'd decide to be the company with the Mercedes virtues from 20 years ago. Solid, safe, reliable, with great build quality. They might even get the German taxi business back ;-)
-Mathias

andre1969 · August 2006

the xA and that little Benz thingie make me think of those snub-nosed work trucks that used to be common back in the 50's. The styles that were not quite a cabover, but not quite a conventional long-nose, either.

lilengineerboy · August 2006

I think the TR wedgie you want to find is the one with the Rover/Buick aluminum V8. They are more rare but can usually be found at any given time somewhere in the country for sale. The other option is taking the Buick 231 V6 and putting that in there. The 4 cylinder is not so fast on its own.
The Mercedes SUV got made fun of when it first came out for looking too much like a Hyundai SUV.
There is a Vanagon Westy for sale around here I might go take a look at. I figure that will end the risk of speeding tickets for me.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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