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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions



  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    oac, excuse me, but I just don't see the reason for such intensity in defense of the LS. I think it has enough legs to stand on that it doesn't need to sound the trumpets with its credentials with every post.

    Sorry, but I just don't see the car being threatened or "disrespected" like that. Like I said, the car has merit and isn't in need of constant defense or perpetual touting.

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    It's so much that the LS is disrespected, it's as much that the S-Class gets too much respect, as is seen as the standard by which luxury cars are judged, when, in fact, the LS is the one that has earned that distinction.

    The S WAS prettier, handled better, and had a few more acronyms, but those days are over! It's Lexus' time.

    NO VEHICLE has the resume the Lexus LS has, since 1990.

    The Next LS will trump the S550 as a car of who's blend of luxury, safety, power, styling (oh, yes!), and value that Mercedes cannot match.

    An S450 would get embarassed if it were brought to fight off the LS! Much like the current S430 has. ;)

    The S550 will prove to be a questionable buy for anyone
    who doesn't need a badge to buy a car.

    There are 3 great badges in this country. Not one.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    When the dust settles, we'll see what the concensus is at that time. Your opinion is fine with me, but I do not agree at this time. The LS460 needs more reviews with actual test data. It needs one on one comparisons with the 7-Series and S-Class.

    When all this happens, we'll see. At this point the S-Class is still the benchmark. Maybe that will change, maybe not. Either way, the LS460 is a formidable vehicle worthy of praise.

    I personally don't care what happens, but I'd like it to be realistic. I have no investment in any car company . . . only my own preferences. So, I can like or buy whatever I want no matter what anybody else thinks. Now that's the kind of freedom I love.

    But . . . let's be a little more patient for the serious test reviews and comps, and then let the dust settle.

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I have no dog in the fight either, as I'm more of a compact performance car buyer.

    But Lexus is changing the industry, and the LS is becoming THE preeminent luxury car of the US. This redesign is just the final stage of it's Revolution of the Premium Lux Class.

    The S-Class will appeal to old money, but the 21st Century belongs to Lexus. Everyone else is playing catch-up. IMHO.

    The LS has won many comparisons, with and without the S-Class present. I'm not gonna break a sweat over comparisons. Value HAS TO be a huge part of comparison test, and Lexus can't be touched by the Germans in value.

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    These buybacks were all 04,05 & 06s, interestingly enough...
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Lexus can't be touched by the Germans in value.

    You know what I always say . . . credit where credit is due. I do not know of anyone that would argue against the Lexus LS460 as a great value. It is an integral part of the winning formula. We've all agreed on this for quite some time, IMO.

    FYI, I am not quite as sure about the GS being as much of a great value, however, as is the LS.

    You really need to come back to the HELM board with these comparative HELM posts. ;)

  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    oac, excuse me, but I just don't see the reason for such intensity in defense of the LS. .... Like I said, the car has merit and isn't in need of constant defense or perpetual touting.

    Defense ? excusez moi... Let's say the facts are being stated, Tag. Just the facts. BTW, look around Edmund's sedan boards and you'd find plenty of "perpetual touting", and "constant defense" of ALL cars/brands to fill an ocean ;) Besides, this is the LS460 board, so expect some love for the car around here,... on HELM, well that's a different boat... :)
  • ...since its debut. the 1st gen Car and Driver LS comparo in 1989 found it the #1 vehicle over the S-class and others; they cited superior "comfort, engine performance, ergonomics, ride quality, styling," etc. The last gen LS 430 also beat out the S-class in the last C & D comparo, taking first place in that article. Will it do the same this time around?

    However, reading those articles and contrasting the magazines from then to now, I am struck by how much the tone has changed--the articles are much shorter on text and analysis now, and IMO are less erudite. The emphasis has switched to more subjective, surface elements (perhaps as magazine sales continue to decline?) that I'm not sure the coming comparos will offer enough detail. Or will judge the sedans the same way. But we'll see.

    From ClubLexus, here's a choice quote from Automobile magazine:

    "The previous Lexus LS430 is an astonishingly good car, superior in many ways, but it is just not quite in the class of the Germans when you talk about driving dynamics. That all changes for 2007. The new LS460 is not just the peer of the leading trio, it provides a new benchmark for the category."

    And from autochannel:

    "The LS 460 is a major step forward for Lexus. As comfortable and inviting as the Executive Class right rear seat may be, the driver's seat is just as good in its own way. Previous LS generations were not known as driver's cars, in the manner made famous by the Germans. This one is."

    I seriously hope they haven't compromised the LS' absorbent, smooth ride in favor of performance!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    this is the LS460 board, so expect some love for the car around here

    That's the way it should be, and I wouldn't want or expect it any other way!

    on HELM, well that's a different boat

    Well . . . same answer.

  • image
    Sorry for the bluriness, I hope you can read that.

    Also, the LS600hL will be coming in the spring of 2007 and will have more than 430hp (confirmed)
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Is this from the U.S. Lexus website? Unfortunately, it is very difficult to read the information on your post.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Thank you nexuslexus! I appreciate it. For some reason I stupidly assumed that this was new information on the LS600hL, but this is good stuff on the LS460 and LS460L. The only thing that bothers me is the trunk space shrinkage with the rear AC option. I wonder what sort of trunk space there will be on the LS600hL? If it's a matter of rear AC or trunk space, I am going with the trunk space.
  • Here is what may be new information on the LS600hL.

    Lexus 2008 LS 600h L: World's First Full Hybrid V8 Luxury Sedan
    Joins All-New Fourth-Generation LS 460 and LS 460 L
    09/12/2006 Torrance, CA
    September 12, 2006 - Torrance, CA - Unveiled at the 2006 New York International Automobile Show, Lexus' all-new 2008 LS 600h L hybrid luxury sedan is scheduled to arrive in spring 2007. The all-wheel-drive LS 600h L will be the world's first vehicle to feature a full hybrid V8 powertrain.

    "The LS 600h L was developed to explore the outer reaches of performance, style and safety," said Bob Carter, Lexus Division group vice president and general manager. "It is a vehicle as efficient and familiar as it is indulgent and advanced, a far-reaching concept, fully developed and fully realized. It is simply in a class by itself."

    Lexus Hybrid Drive
    Coinciding with the debut of the all-new LS is the introduction of the Lexus Hybrid Drive name, which will be used globally for all Lexus hybrid models. The hybrid-drive system in the LS 600h L builds upon the Lexus legacy established by the RX 400h and GS 450h to combine an all-new five-liter V8 gasoline engine with large, high-output electric motors and a newly designed large-capacity battery pack. This advanced combination will provide the LS 600h L with an unmatched balance of environmental efficiency and performance, furnishing the hybrid with a peak combined output rating of more than 430 horsepower.

    To distribute this immense power, a new full-time all-wheel-drive system is utilized for superior handling control. The LS 600h L also employs a newly developed dual-stage electronically controlled, continuously variable transmission. This combination results in impressive power and seamless acceleration.

    The Lexus Hybrid Drive system found in the LS 600h L is the automotive industry's most advanced gas-electric hybrid system developed to date. The hybrid system results in seamless power and very impressive passing speed. It will deliver power and performance on a par with modern 12-cylinder engines, while still delivering best-in-V8-class fuel efficiency.

    The LS hybrid is expected to carry a Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) rating. A SULEV rating means the LS 600h L has nearly 70 percent fewer emissions than the "cleanest" of its competitors.

    "It is fair to say that to our knowledge there is nothing on the road, or on the drawing board, that comes close to delivering such a formerly contradictory combination of jaw-dropping engine performance, fuel efficiency and fewer emissions," Carter said.

    Owing to the inherent noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) improvements offered by its hybrid powertrain, the LS 600h L is designed to set a new standard for silent running in the prestige-luxury sedan class. The depth and density of cabin quietness in the LS 600h L required extensive re-engineering of accessory motors and switches.

    With "quiet-ride" ranking as one of the top five reasons for purchase of prestige-luxury vehicles, especially among current LS owners, the LS 600h L is well-situated in its class and poised to please the exacting luxury-car buyer. Its NVH levels are about half that found in conventional cars, making the hybrid LS one of the quietest automobiles ever built, if not the quietest.

    High-Output V8 and World's First Eight-Speed Automatic Transmission
    The LS 460 and LS 460 L will be powered by an all-new, highly advanced 4.6-liter V8 engine that will produce approximately 380 horsepower and 367 pound-feet of torque. Combined with a world-first eight-speed automatic transmission, these LS sedans will travel from zero-to-sixty miles per hour in 5.4 seconds. Even with this level of performance, the new LS sedans are expected to receive a combined city/highway mileage of 23 mpg as well as an Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle II (ULEV II) rating.

    Advanced Active Safety Technologies
    Coinciding with the launch of the hybrid model is a newly developed, Advanced Pre-Collision System (APCS) that is unlike any system ever before offered by Lexus. One element of APCS is a new system designed to help detect pedestrians in the vehicle's path.

    Two small cameras mounted at the front of the car, in conjunction with millimeter-wave radar, are sensitive enough to detect not just large metal obstructions such as cars but also smaller nonmetallic objects, such as humans.

    A third camera, mounted on the steering column, monitors the orientation of the driver's face. If the camera sees that the driver is not looking directly ahead for a few seconds or more, and if an obstacle is detected ahead, then it alerts the driver first with a warning chime and a flashing light. As the car gets closer to the obstacle, the system can begin to gently apply the brakes on its own. To assist the driver in maneuvering around the obstacle, the system reprograms the steering ratio, amplifying the intensity and quickness of the steering response.

    While all of this is happening, the system automatically retracts the seat-belt restraints for driver and front passenger and prepares the brake system to respond with increased force when activated by the driver in anticipation of a possible impact.

    Dynamic Driving
    These unique active safety systems team with Lexus' proprietary next-generation Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system, standard on all new LS models, which integrates Electric Power Steering (EPS), Vehicle Stability Control (VSC), Electronic Control Brakes (ECB), Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) and Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD).

    An air suspension system equipped with Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) will be standard on the LS 600h L and an option on the LS 460 L. VGRS optimizes the steering gear ratio according to vehicle speed to help enhance responsiveness and driver control. VGRS also partners with VDIM, making minor adjustments to front-wheel angle for improved control in challenging road conditions.

    Together these technologies make up an intelligently designed, logically conceived vehicle that helps to provide a level of confidence and control never before experienced.

    The styling on the new LS begins with a daring design language that shatters the myth that luxury sedans must be sedate and understated. A result of the recent design direction Lexus deems L-finesse, the new LS vehicles are the crowning touch to a fully restyled car lineup, which already includes the GS, IS and ES sedans.

    The L-finesse design philosophy has its roots in creating a balance of contrasting elements. The new LS encompasses this direction with its bold look, style and personality—both vivid and forceful while at the same time warm, inviting and contemporary. With a pulled-back hood, characteristic of the new Lexus look, low-to-the- ground stance and elegantly sculpted and streamlined body contours, the LS emphasizes simplicity and style in a stunning, modern package.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Lexus loves using the word dynamic. I've seen it so often over the years. This year we have dynamic radar cruise control and now we have dynamic rerouting (via traffic update system). Meanwhile we're all still waiting for the dynamic price.
  • don't forget Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I knew there was another dynamic I was overlooking.

    Seriously I just noticed that the changer is CD or DVD based. So if it's 6 dvd's and you burn your own music to dvd's, as I do, then you can have as many as 4800 minutes of music just from the DVD's plus you have a hard drive on top of that and Sat radio. We are starting to get to overkill on entertainment.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    We are starting to get to overkill on entertainment.

    That's because only in a Lexus DVD stands for "DYNAMIC video disc" :P (of course NOT)

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It's MNF on ESPN . . . Your San Diego Chargers vs. my S.F./Oakland Bay Area's Oakland Raiders.

    The freeways up here have been jammed since this morning in anticipation of the whooping that the Raiders are going to give the Chargers. ;)

    I hope you enjoy this good left coast game, my friend, as much as I will.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Except that it's audio only. Now Dynamic DAD would be a nice description. Then I can remind my wife and kids that the description is about me and not the car's Digital Audio Disc.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    You two guys may be the only people watching that non-event tonight.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Except that it's audio only.

    Need I remind the good dynamic DAD that his shiny new LS600hL will have a nice 9" video monitor? :D

    Now, back to the game.(non-event? Yikes! I'll get even with ya! ;) )

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm watching it....
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Oh boy, it's the "Lexus" half-time show. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    It's MNF on ESPN . . . Your San Diego Chargers vs. my S.F./Oakland Bay Area's Oakland Raiders.

    The freeways up here have been jammed since this morning in anticipation of the whooping that the Raiders are going to give the Chargers...

    You know what, Tag... I flew out of San Diego this morning (7:30am) to SF via Oakland (took the AirBART from Oakland Airport to SFO). I am here in your neck of the woods attending the ACS meeting at the Moscone Center. After all day at the conference, dinner and SciMix (beer and stuff), I just got into my hotel to read this from you. So I checked the scores online, and lo-n-behold, there was a lotta whooping going on alright... that of the hapless, rudderless, ugly silver-n-black... :sick: :sick: oopppsss... sorry, Tag. You need a real O-line, a real QB, and some DBs. You made Rivers, a "rookie" QB look like Joe Montana ;)

    Maybe next time in our home field... Not a chance. Its now 6-in-a-row loss for your Raiders against my Lightning Bolts ! We own you guys.... Shawn Merriman was d-man on D... or as Martinez would say: "who's your daddy now ?" :)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    oac - I can say only one thing . . . the truth is what it is . . . you are absolutely right.

    The Raiders got clocked. Totally unworthy of MNF.

    Actually I'm more of an A's basball fan . . . and so far that is paying off. Took the family to a night game last week. Lots of fun. My 7-year old son was in heaven!

    BTW, hope you've enjoyed the Bay Area! :)

  • I am registered for the Houston Taste of Lexus on October 28, seems to be lots of openings. My dealer has "over 200" on the 460 waiting list. My salesman does not have prices yet but says they "will be higher". Current best estimate is "$65000, $75000 and $85000 for the 460, 460L and 600Lh." I don't know if this is accurate or not but thought it worth passing on. I can't wait to drive and compare it with the BMW and MB.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Maybe it's just me, but when the Lexus first debuted, it obviously resembled a Mercedes W-140, the S class. That has been refined over the last 4 interations of the car. The 07 however, resembles the BMW 7 series to me. So does the GS 430. Very Bangle esque, IMO. Not that it's a bad thing, but Toyota is the master of emulation in subtle ways - is the aspiration for Lexus now BMW instead of Benz, and if so, is the 07 LS460 therefore saying that BMW is now the Standard of the World??? :shades:
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