Mercedes-Benz C350 & C280

mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
edited June 2014 in Mercedes-Benz
I just heard that the new 350 engine will be a power option this Spring. We've really enjoyed our 320 and do not really need to be looking at a new car.

 

Even so, the new 350 engine is very impressive on paper and seems like it would be a great driver in a C-Class sedan, especially when teamed-up with the new 7-spd. tranny.

 

I was not completely shocked that the new 350 wasn't among Wards' top 10, but I was surprised to read their comment about it that it was "un-fun," apparently because it was working against a heavy-feeling flywheel.

 

Maybe the balancing shaft is bigger or heavier or rotates backward faster than in our 320, but I cannot see how the new 350 would not impress me considering the increase in hp and more torque at an even lower rmp compared to our 320.

 

My guess is that the new 350 may sacrifice a little in potential "fun" to meet the newest EU-4 pollution standards and that is probably why it does not post the numbers that the toyota and nissan 3.5s offer -- or, maybe it is just more conservatively engineered, e.g., lower compression.

 

I will be interested to test drive a C350 and also, hearing the comments of any SLK350 owners that are happy with their engines and 7 spd. autos. Thanks.
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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Thats very interesting because that is the first negative thing I've heard about the new 3.5L DOHC V6. Even the hard to please British press has raved about it in the SLK350 and upcoming E350. Even Car and Driver likes this new motor in the SLK350, pretty high praise.

     

    Do you have a link to the Wards article?

     

    Also, at the Geneva show in March the replacement for the C240, the C280 will be shown, along with a SLK280. The current rumors have them running 3.0L version of the new V6 with anywhere from 225-231 hp. Of course for 2006 the CLK320 will become the CLK350 also.

     

    New V6 engines for all 6-cylinder model Benzes were long overdue imo.

     

    M
  • mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
    The link:

     

    http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_wards_best_engines_8/index.htm

     

    You have to wonder what Wards is thinking when they say something so subjective as "unemotional," after they've noted the evocative vocals and thrust of the engine, which seem to me to be the major characteristics that people base subjective feelings on.

     

    I would suspect that MB had neglected to pay-up their corporate subscription -- so Wards could care less -- but then, Wards says they love MB's 3.2 diesel (an engine option that I wish I could enjoy but I live in the enlightened state of Calif.).

     

    I am guessing that with the new 7 spd. tranny, MB must waste a lower gear to make their car jump out of the hole like a frogger if they want to maximize accolades from the typical auto reviewer.

     

    If Wards is unexcited because they miss something like jack rabbit starts off the line, then I can totally discount their subjective feelings in my calculations.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Any idea yes as to when the C350 is to arrive in the U.S.?

     

    M
  • fellyfelly Member Posts: 16
    The C350 goes on sale this summer, although pricing hasn't been officially released. Mercedes officials report the cost should be comparable to the current C320.

    And for mac320, the new 350 engine will not be an option, its replacing the C320. Gone will be the C320 from the Benz lineup.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Does this include a wagon, or are we looking at a 280 wagon?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I think the C280 is the only wagon we'll get. The previous C320 was and the new C350 would be too expensive. They C320 Wagon didn't sell to well.

    M
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Hell, I'd pay for the AMG. Now that would be worthwhile...
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    A C55 AMG wagon?

    M
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    I was looking at the newly revamped C320, especially the Sport model. They had an extensive window of it in the mb site and it looks great with the huge tires and AMG-like exterior. I also like the new dash and apparently better fit and finish.

    Now, I was prepared to bite the bullet even though I felt that the car needed more bhp because it has a really nice transmission, the short throw 6spd. Now I am positively giddy to have an extra 43bhp ontap! From everything that I have heard and read, this V6 sings a beautifol song as well.

    When i went to price a the C320 Sport, I wanted the leather interior even though the cost was prohibitive. The salesman said that almost no one orders leather in the C Class and I will never get that money back in a trade because the leatherette is very good...what do you guys think? I am a leather man myself.

    I have some tough choice to make now, you gotta love how the car market takes shape sometimes. Right now, it is C350 vs. E90 330i vs. S60R. I am kind of leaning towards the Volvo ( I have a S60 T5 right now) and the Benz. I typically stay away from 1st year, clean sheet design cars, but I have love the new BMW and the dealer is a 3 wood away from my house.

    Decisions, decisions...
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Bingo.

    I've been seriously mulling the S4 Avant, and the C55 AMG wagon seems competitive to me. But for the ever increasing size of the A4 line, the thunderbolt grease-slapper end of the range is very appealing, especially de-badged!

    Too bad we don't get it here (C55 estate). I mean that literally and figuratively...
    ;-)
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "...love the new BMW and the dealer is a 3 wood away from my house..."

    And he's been complaining roundly at the substantial number of apparently stolen "range" balls that have mysteriously ended up in his yard...

    :-)
  • 6spdtl6spdtl Member Posts: 30
    I don't see what all the gushing is all about 260 HP fron a 3.5 L engine???? Acura offers more HP from their 3.2=270hp not to mention their 3.5=300hp. I doubt this new motivation under the hood will correct the fact that the C series is no better than mid pack in the entry luxury sedan category while carrying one of the biggest stickers. TO equip a C series to the level of an acura TL you have to pay about 46K which BTW is in the league of the RL which comes with 40 more ponies, better accomodations and standard SH-AWD which no other automaker offers. Sorry, despite the hoopla this C series is another overpriced overhyped Mercedes.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    While the revamped C-Class may not set the class afire, it will improve its standing which is virtually nill as a sports sedan. The new Mercedes 3.5L V6 has 268 and 258lb-ft of torque, not 260hp. Only 2 less hp than the TL, and more torque over a broader range, much less revving will be needed to attain the Benz's power.

    Unlike Acura nobody else forces all those needless (for some buyers) option on their customers. The C-Class ain't cheap, but at 49K the RL ain't no bargain either with the much better performing M35 beating it in just about every way for the same or less money. Neither the C or the RL are big values in their respective classes.

    The RL doesn't even perform like a car with 300hp either, cars will less hp are faster. You can bet the C350 will be one of the faster cars in its class, unlike the RL.

    M
  • 6spdtl6spdtl Member Posts: 30
    A neon SRT4 is faster than all the cars in this segment, nevertheless, I don't see anybody looking for these cars lining up to pick one of those up. The RL is smack down in the midle of the fastness race in this segment and is the only one to offer standard SH-AWD! A C320 4 matic with similar equipment as the RL is 49K!!! (check MB USA) The RL which competes with the E series not the C, with comparable equipment the E is 66K. The infinity M, which were not discussing here (its a Merc thread) also is more expensive when comparably equiped and a hell of a lot uglier to boot! It's only bragging right compared to the RL its that its faster, its inferior in every other category.
    SO as we were discussing, the C350 is another overpriced MB for those who will pay premium for having a very faded three pointed star hood ornament!!!
  • bobcatmanbobcatman Member Posts: 51
    Darn right the C class is overpriced, matched with poor quality makes it even worse and the C is also an underachiever compared to the others in the class like the 298hp G35 to name one. The new Lexi IS will be another one to add to that list in the near also.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You missed the point of my original post. I didn't say the C350 competed with the RL. I said that the C350 will be more competitive in its segment than the RL is in its segment when it comes to power and the delivery of it. The M35, while uglier in your opinion trounces the RL for less money because unlike Acura you can option the M35 to your specifications, not what some marketers thinks everyone wants in their cars.

    To me loads of extra and needless equipment on the RL don't make up for poor brakes, lackluster acceleration and tarted up Accord styling.

    The RL is just an overpriced and glorified Accord to me. Other than 300hp, which it doesn't even perform up to, and ShAwD it doesn't offer much more than Acura's own TL.

    M
  • 6spdtl6spdtl Member Posts: 30
    Point taken the RL is not much better than the TL. Thats why I'm keeping mine. The point is that the TL is a fantastic car whether its an Accord or not which btw is completely immaterial since the C class is an overpriced German TAXI LOL! The time when German cars could brag about being superior to other brands is history. It used to be that people would put up with german prices and reliability problems because they built comfortable, safe, sophisticated vehicles. To their misfortune, now Japanese manufactures offer cars that are reliable, cheaper and just as, if not more, sophisticated than the German brands. To put it bluntly if German automakers don't get their duckies in order their future is not much brighter than Italy's FIAT.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I agree that German need to work on some things. The C-Class being an overpriced taxi is no differnent the RL being an overprice and over-equipped Accord. You find this about RL to be "immaterial" and more than a few buyers find your taxi theory to be the same because the C-Class sells and will continue to do so. To each his own I guess.

    M
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    I certainly don't and I am not really interested in comparing the two. The TL is a nice car. That being said, with the torque steer and FWD setup it lacks the refinement of the Germans and even the G35. Regardless of whether a C Class is a taxi or not, the funny thing is the old C320 was compared and preferred by many (myself included) over the soulless TL.

    Now that you get 43bhp more and also a significant torque boost, it really is going to challenge the leaders in the segment...the leaders being a G35 in terms of value and 330i in terms of outright top notch cars, regardless of price.

    Personally, my three choices right now, Volvo, BMW,and Mercedes have to do with cars that I want. I find that in the past when I considered an Acura before, it was more value based, it would always be a compromise because while it is a nice car, I would rationalize getting it because of affordability.

    This has been an effective strategy in selling their vehicles, but there are still thousand buying the European brands.
  • 6spdtl6spdtl Member Posts: 30
    Sounds like you haven't tried the new TL! As essentially every automobile magazine and 3 to 1 consumers in the market the new TL is far from souless and creams the C series even without factoring in the obvious value equation. Try it you will never see mercedes in the same light again, take it from the previous owner of 3 mercs (one E and 2 S series).
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Wait a minute you've had Mercedes' before? Due tell. Which E and which S models?

    Not to debate the TL here, but I wasn't blown away by the driving when I drove it. To me it drove like a nicer and faster Accord, but I was taken with the interior and obvious value. Styling is my main problem with the TL.

    M
  • 6spdtl6spdtl Member Posts: 30
    My dad had an S300SD (dropping windows, dead turbos, flaky ignition switches and obviously slower than cold syrup). Once that nightmare was done he thought that an S500 was the solution (for him there's no car like MB) on that one the MB service department is kept on speed dial (he still owns it). My mother (due to my father's enlightened influence) has an E320, I think the name gremlins was based on her E; dead radio quirky tranny, dead AC and electronic windows that seem possesed. I, on the other hand, learning from previous long experience, with hondas, fords chevy's and other assorted beaters (too many years of school) have only bought new Hondas with my own dough. The only reason I've visited the dealers after 4 civics 2 odys and 2 TL's is to testdrive the new models when they show up!!!
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Not to get in the way here, but I've had new TL immersion recently. Spent a week with a new TL prior to selling it for my Mom after my Dad's death.

    For a FWD car, frankly I think it's as good as it gets. With all the "complaints" of torque steer out there, you'd think they were driving a different car! I'm convinced most of them never drove the thing. Extrapolation is my theory here. Honda has made the most that can possibly be made of a FWD platform.

    It's comfortable, competent, amply equipped, and just as amply powered, but it's not exactly inspiring. I played in the hills near home a bit with it, and it simply doesn't incite one to acts of imprudence! That's a litmus to me. OTOH, I'll bet your 6-speed helps in that category a bit. Still not the platform I'd want to start with, though.

    I'll go with Merc up to a point here. I absolutely agree that it's sumptuous and gutsy and a nice car in all ways. I also agree that the styling is an attempt at chic that lands just this side of conventionally outre (figure that one out and you get a cookie!). It has grown on me substantially in the past year, but I still find it slightly incoherent (like me after 7pm).

    I just can't think of much in the Benz line up that really pumps me as direct competiton. This is a bigger car than the C-class unless I'm mistaken, but competes on price. Bigger ain't better in my book.

    I take it back. If you told me I had a choice only between a TL and a C320 sport with sunroof and 5-spoke staggered wheels, I'd do the C. Yeah, that'd feel more natural on the roads I like to drive. And look better, too, I think.
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    I have driven the new TL. It is an improvement over the prior TL with regards to having some sort of style, and while many praise the interior, I still find it a little cheap. The leather to these eyes is barely average and I am always impressed with the build quality, but in this Acura I think that better materials would help. The torque steer is very real. If you drive the car hard, it will not co-operate. If you drive reasonably, true, it may not rear its head but for that one moment that you want to feel exhiliration, torque steer kills the moment.

    But of course, there is a price to pay for materials that are cheaper: it is a cheaper car and a better value than almost any car in its segment. If every one purchased vehicles solely based on value, Acuras would be in every driveway. That is their entire raison d'etre. Undercut the competition, give them 95% of the same expereience and there you have the reason why Acuras are flying out showrooms.

    I am not that type of consumer. I want to get a vehicle that makes my mouth water, that makes me check it out a few times walking away from where it is parked. Everytime I walk to my car, I want to feel something. For me, the TL doesn't rate in that category.

    I will pay more to feel that. And yes, I will pay 5-10K more if I have to. I don't want to settle with a car full of compromises, I am done with that in this stage of my life.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "...I want to get a vehicle that makes my mouth water, that makes me check it out a few times walking away from where it is parked..."

    Yes, yes, YES!

    "...For me, the TL doesn't rate in that category..."

    Neither for me, but I can understand how it does for others.

    "...I will pay more to feel that. And yes, I will pay 5-10K more if I have to. I don't want to settle with a car full of compromises, I am done with that in this stage of my life..."

    Brother, you just said a cotton-pickin' mouthful! One of the few advantages to age is the wisdom to know when not to ignore what's important to you!

    Good Lord, I sound like my father...
    ;-)
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    In 1993, I wanted a Camaro. They werebrand new and very hot and when I went to trade in my loved 1989 626 Turbo (tuned to run 14.04 in the q/mile) they lowballed me. I didn't get the car i wanted but got a nice 1993 Probe GT. Nice car, and in the end I grew to really like it, but it was not what I wanted.

    Then in 1997, I wanted the new A4. Loved it. I wanted it badly, but residuals for Audis back then were horrific and made the car a bad value. So I settled and got a nice 1997 Maxima SE. Great motor, lousy seats but in time I grew to like it, an awesome highway car, but it was not what I wanted.

    In 1999, the new Mustang came out. I wanted it bad. No compromises, I just went and got it...and loved every minute of it because it was exactly what I wanted, a glissening silver GT, manual with all the bells and whistles and even picked it up on April 17, 1999, 35 years to the day!

    In 2002, I wanted an S60 T5, I simply fell in love with it at first sight. With beautiful 17" alloys, amazing seats and sound system, not to mention powerful 250bhp engine that munched every other car I tested. I got that too. Sure, the torque steer in this car makes the Acura feel like RWD, but it was something I chose to live with and have with other cars, as you can see from my list.

    Anyways, sorry for the long post, but one thing I have learned over the years is there is no point saving a few grand if you have too many compromises. If you are honest with yourself, you will always regret it.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Nope, not too long at all, and I'm right there with you, cmnott. And it's only my last purchase (current car) that the lesson came clear for me. Took me 42 years to learn it too.

    Interestingly, of my three serious considerations last time out, I ended up in the least expensive, but for all the right reasons, and none of them economic. For the sake of expediency, however, I took delivery from existing stock, and settled for exterior and interior colors that I didn't really want. Had I spent a few more dollars and waited a few weeks, I would have been even more satisfied with my decision, and frankly would have enjoyed the past couple of years that much more.

    I won't make that mistake next time out.
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    All engines get more powerful, interiors get roomier, etc. The current civic is bigger and more powerful than the accord was when it first hit the lot. The C350 is a luxury sedan. German cars, by definition, have some degree of athleticism regardless of what their primary purpose is, but the similarities between say, the C350 and a 330i are the culture in which they're produced, and that they are rear drive. That's it, really. The 330i is a sports car with a few luxury elements sprinkled on top. The C-class is a luxury road car which, if neccessary, can be thrown around a bit. The japanese brands are simply using their(mostly) low end platforms, and some monday morning quarterbacking, to be a little of both. The 3.5 liter engine is fantastic IMO and needed to happen.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Even better is that the slow C240 becomes the 227hp (more then the current C320) C280 in June also. The C230 also will ditch its gruffy 4-cylinder engine too for a 200hp V6 also. All these engines are long overdue imo.

    Do you think an entry-level CLK280 or E280 would make it here, since they would now have more power than the "320" versions they replace?

    M
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    as a price point car, they might attract a few. I've had people rave about how much they love their C220's and S320w's, usually the folks who have no need to go fast, but just want to enjoy the ride, and the prestige. If an E280 could be sold at a price of say $45,900 or so, it would fetch some interest IMO. If the CLK280 could be bought over here with the 6-speed manual gearbox, THAT would be be something special.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Where would that put a CLK280 on price? That might draw me, if the driving experience was right. A two-door would have to be a second car for me.

    The E interests me not at all personally. Never has really; it's a bigger and a scad less agile a car than I would drive day to day, and not quite pretty or plush enough for a social calendar car, IMO. But I'd be willing to bet there are more than a few C owners (or potential ones) that might make the jump for more car at basically an upper C price (if I've got that right).

    But I admit, I'm out of my comfort zone speculating in any detail on Benz product. More gut reaction here.
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    on a CLK280 is all we can do, b/c I seriously doubt it will cross the pond. Especially not with a manual tranny. Just daydreaming. MB tends to charge about $1400 for an auto when it's an option, and engine upgrades(V6 into V8) tend to run 5-6K. I doubt that would be the deduct to go from big to small V6, tho. I agree that some buyers in the high C-class market would step up in a heartbeat to get the bigger car. Daimler needs to be carefull about how much product they saturate this market with, tho, IMO.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Thinking critically, they now have another bookend to worry about as well. Chrysler now blossoms, perhaps as an example to Benz management, perhaps as kharma for firing the wrong freakin' guy!

    It may not be essential at this particular time, but pricing and segments will be areas of concern down the road, particularly if more successes round out the Chrysler experience.

    Bodes well for marque-snobs like our pal Merc! ;-) Can't swim too far downstream without messing with their suddenly lucrative investment!
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    daimler could learn a thing or two about marketing to us yankee capitalists, which chrysler's success could help with. They build a brilliant car, but it took them until '95 to put a cupholder in any of them, and when they did, instead of putting a hole in the console like they should have, they over-engineered it to death. Took way, way too long to put a cd player in a car, as well. Things they never took the time to see how important they were to this market. If you look back a few years, tho, they have kept pricing very competitive through the years. In 1982 a 190E with the 2.6 engine and a sunroof, but not much else, was in the low 30's.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    How's about the nine discs required for the NAV?
    :-(
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    such as those are completely lost on them. They could easily double the volume of M-class sales if they would add even a decent factory installed DVD -not VHS- player in the back seat, for example, but they will not do it.
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    on the good side, it's now a single disk, dvd-based system, and the head unit is easier to learn and more efficient to use than before. Unfortunately it still lacks a lot of smaller roads, and detours compared to other systems, even though it is my understanding that NAVTEQ is the supplier for almost every auto manufacturer out there.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The things you guys are talking about goes back to my theory that MB and particularly VW doesn't have the full attention of their bosses back in Germany, otherwise they'd react much quicker and precisely to U.S. market demands instead of ignoring the obvious.

    A CLK280 would probably see for about 39K, I'm guessing. I think it would sell, but a manual nope because that would put in direct competition with much more powerful/sporty coupes in the price range, namely the G35 Coupe.

    M
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    Both of those companies are so global that they probably view our(America's) obsession with cupholders, etc. as an afterthought. They have always had a take-it-or-leave-it kind of approach to how they package their vehicles, but now that volume manufacturers like toyota are eating their lunch, they need to start paying more attention to the details this market bases their decisions on.

    A CLK280 with a 6-speed is a pipe dream, but it would be a way to exploit that power. A pillar-less true coupe with that tranny, at that price point would be sweet
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    In reading your posts it seems you work for Mercedes-Benz? Either way what do you think about all the new and/or revamped products they have coming between now and this fall? I mean there is a new M-Class, R-Class, a revamped engine lineup for the C-Class...not to mention the new SLK and CLS? What do you think of the SLK and CLS and the facelifted CLK, also coming this summer/fall? Mercedes really needs the M and R-Class vehicles to be a hit if for no other reason, profits not spoiled by the dollar/Euro situation.

    M
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    Another favourable review.

    Looks like MB may finally have the C350 right...they are also boasting a 12% mpg increase along with increased power with the 3.5L V6.

    Everywhere that I have read about this engine is it sounds amazing. Well on Top Gear I had a chance to hear the SLK and it was a glorious sound indeed. Personally, that is what makes me enjoy my cars, a great exhaust makes you wnat to turn the radio off!
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    yes I must admit my living is made via mercedes-benz. It's a love affair that started when I was a valet in Atlanta, GA. The first time I parked a 420SEL there was no looking back. That was in 1988. The new product is exciting to me, being an enthusiast, but because some of it is such a departure from what the American market sees mercedes to be, I have my fingers crossed that we as a culture will really get it. The new M-class will, barring any prolonged series of issues, be everything now that the outgoing one was then. All of the newer product has been much more reliable so far as well, thank god. I drive the c-class and it's been a really great to drive, reliable car, but I've seen other people not fair so well. These new drive trains are advanced, efficient, and fast. That coupled with the modern and functional body styles coming soon, and mercedes as a brand may back in the saddle. The B-class is still coming, it's just getting delayed because of the exchange rate. probably we'll see it this time next year instead of this fall, but I really like it.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I hope they can turn it around. By the new products being more reliable, you mean the CLS and SLK? Gawd I hope so. For one thing these two models in particular signal an end of Mercedes skimping on interior materials if nothing else, they'be both up to traditional pre-2000 S-Class standards.

    Ah the problem children, E, ML, C and S all have issues according to the surveys, especally the ML and E-Class. While the ML is obvious, I'm really curious to know what the big problem is with the current E-Class. I assume you work for a dealership in some capacity? What issues have you seen with the 2003+ E-Class? I know the 2003 models have nav problems, but for 2004 and certain for 2005 they should have gotten a handle on the E, because it is probably Mercedes most important sedan from a volume and attention stand point.

    M
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    Yes, I guess you could say I'm on the front line. So far the SLK and CLS, of which I've sold 4 and 2 of, respectively, have been solid. The materials and fit and finish are back up where they should be. The cupholder in the 2000 S-class is probably the darkest moment in mercedes history from a value statement standpoint. With regards to the W211 E class, the first year was a lot of arbitrary little gremlins, which, folks, when you buy the first year of a European vehicle, you will likely have to deal with. not surely, but likely. The reason there was no nav in the '03 was due to a GPS module issue, which also plagued some Tele-aid(onstar) systems. The modules were VIN specific, so getting them replaced in a timely fashion was not easy. The sad thing is, now that all of these past problems have saturated the airwaves, they aren't very prevalent really, anymore. For those of you who hate the SBC brakes in the E, I can see why you might feel that way, they are a little hard to modulate, and the system is very noisy while it's warming up. At this point, the only car in the line that isn't 100% is the old M-class. SOMETIMES they still have an issue or two, but rarely anything major.
    Part of the problem mercedes is up against is that for them to build a car out of the materials they used in, say, a 1990 420SEL, with today's supplier costs, the car would be priced out of even the highline market. People want more fuel mileage, cheaper insurance, quicker repairs, and more features, etc. without the price going up. What that means is more plastic, and lowest- bidder suppliers. That being said, they still use very costly techniques and materials in the building of their car, the only other manufacturer that uses a monocoque chassis is Porche, and their prices reflect that as well. Personally, I would like to see them focus less on volumn, and spend whatever they have to,and charge whatever they have to, to be as bulletproof as a toyota, but continue to dust them on driveability.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yep perception always lags reality, and we all know once the press gets a hold of anything that shows a star falling from grace they are relentless with keeping that story going.

    I'm glad to hear that so far the SLK and CLS have been good, but the real test will be this time next year when CR and JDP does their thing.

    M
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    We'll see how they fare in the surveys. One thing I've noticed a little bit of is, when you're driving a japanese car, for example, and your perception is one of "maytag" reliability, you'll let little things slide. Where as if you shelled out the big bucks for the pioneering, high-tech mercedes or bmw or even audi, ANYTHING and I mean anything that goes wrong will be reported to those guys at CR and JDP with much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth. The world is full of double standards, that's just one of them. But the japanese have realized that they were building their cars a little TOO well, and weren't turning cars as often, or making much $ on parts and service, so they have slacked off a bit. The last JDP I looked at saw mercedes move up about three % points, and toyota(lexus) lose a few with regards to problems per 100 cars.
    The brother of one of my service advisors works at a lexus dealer, and says he's got all the warranty work he can keep up with.
    schadenfreud :-)
  • agarbatiagarbati Member Posts: 6
    I am a first time MB buyer and here are my questions. I'd really appreciate it if the more experienced MB owners can help me out. I will most likely be selling the car in 4-5 years so a somewhat return of what I put in would be nice.

    1- I'd like a capable engine but don't usually push it that hard. Should I wait for the 350 or go with the 320? Also is the difference between the 240 and 320 worth the 5g price difference?

    2- How much more is the 350 going to cost, than the current 320? Should I wait?

    3- I've noticed very few C owners have leather upholstery. Should I also go with the leather inserts?

    4- Finally, I need some info on options and which ones are worth it. I was going to go with the 6 disc changer, Xenons, Sunroof package, Navigation system. Any I should add/drop?

    Thanks for your replies.
  • benz14benz14 Member Posts: 2
    Well to every car including the TL, every new car/remodel has lemons and kinks the first year there out and the company takes car of them and so forth. But to be realistic you are comparing Japanese luxury to a higher standard of German luxury. What would you rather say you owned a Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, or a Mercedes, BMW, Audi. Dont get me wrong Lexus has nice cars but like infiniti there cars all resemble there cheaper counter-part (Toyota, Nissan). When most people are going to spend a lot of money on the car they usually go for a name not a value and something not everyone can put in there driveway. The name they usually go for is something more respectable then a Japanese import....
  • stroudmanstroudman Member Posts: 192
    You can take my advice with a grain of salt since I sell them, but if I can help, I would be glad to.

    -Like any aspect of retail, the new improved thing will cost more, and the old thing will be there at a better price, but with fewer choices. The last of the 240's and 320's have pretty much been built, so what's out there is it. The good news is benz is sure to put extra incentives on the outgoing cars, so a deal can be had, you just might have to settle on colors and/or equipment.

    -The only options that translate into any genuine resale value are sunroofs, cd changers, and auto transmissions. So buy the smallest engine and trim level you can live with. Full leather, xenons, and nav mean nothing to the used car buyer, they just want the cheapest car they can find, and they won't pay much more for things like that. Those options may give you a better experience driving the car, but are all but lost in trade.

    -The engine upgrades will cost more. The E-class jumped about $1500 when it went to 350 size engine, so I would think at least $1k will be the premium on the c-class cars.

    -the two biggest adjustments you will see in the value of your car is when it goes out of warranty(4 years/50,000 miles), and when you cross the 100k mile mark.

    BTW I drive one also (C230), and they are fantastic cars, haven't had any trouble out of it. Hope I could help...
  • agarbatiagarbati Member Posts: 6
    Thanks! That was helpful!
This discussion has been closed.

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