Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    It's still a VW and would break down in 2 months. :P :lemon:
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    It's still a VW and would break down in 2 months.

    ... and the Honda will be stolen and stripped by thugs in 2 minutes... :P :lemon:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Both of those posts were equally useful to the forum... :P :lemon:
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    ha ha! too true.

    rorr; with regards to what 'vw HAD to resort to'; they do have a car that betters the speed 3: its called the r32, and being a vw, yes its more expensive, but its far more luxurious and offers awd.

    they did it just to show what the mkv chassis is capable of; they don't 'need' a v12 to best the speed 3. :blush:
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    wonder how hard it would be to take the drivetrain from a wrecked Speed3 and drop it into the rear hatch area of Speed3 making a twin-engined, AWD Speed3?

    huh? how would having two engines make it awd? and i'm pretty sure that synching them up would prove more difficult than even what vw did. :blush:
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "huh? how would having two engines make it awd? and i'm pretty sure that synching them up would prove more difficult than even what vw did."

    Actually, it's not that hard. C&D did something very similar in the late 80's with a twin engine Honda CRX (although they used automatic transaxles). Front engine (and transaxle) powers the front wheels. Rear engine (and transaxle) powers the rear wheels. Two engines; AWD. Basically, you take the FWD drivetrain, remove the steering components, and install it in a new subframe in the rear of the car. Probably easier dropping THAT package into the rear than what VW went through dropping a twin-turbo W12 into the rear of a GTI.

    Biggest challenge would be getting adequate cooling to the rear engine (oversized radiator in the front serving both engines?) and resolving the shift linkage to shift both transaxles from one shifter.

    What's to synch up?
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    C&D did something very similar in the late 80's with a twin engine Honda CRX (although they used automatic transaxles). Front engine (and transaxle) powers the front wheels. Rear engine (and transaxle) powers the rear wheels.

    VW did this in the early 1980s with a twin-engined Scirocco:

    http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimotor/
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    touche. But still, dropping a bigger engine and making some body changes makes more sense than the double engine deal, wether its been done or not. (late 80's? wonder why it hasn't been done again?) if the latter was truly easier and yielded the bigger performance benefit, why not do it that way? because bigger engine is always cool, granted not neccessary or particularly 'better, but two is kinda cheesy and stupid imo.

    if they wanted all wheel drive, you have there haldex system. or 4 motion. Again a much simpler fix.

    the car is cool no matter what.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I think you're missing my point.

    The WHOLE THING is stupid. Whether we're discussing twin-engine Speed3's (or even a Civic Si) or a VW GTI with a twin-turbo W12 crammed in the back, NONE of these cars has any impact on 'normal' Speed3's, Si's, or GTI's.

    VW went through a 'what if' engineering exercise to show what was possible..........allrighty-then. I suppose Mazda could get a Ford GT drivetrain from their corporate partners, put twin-turbos on IT and cram it into the rear of a Mazda3. What would THAT prove?

    Personally, I'd prefer to read discussions about regular FWD hot hatches.....
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    i didn't want this discussion to turn into this either, but it was posted, i commented on it, and i would hope that we would just move on, but then again, this thread has been dead for awhile, so i guess any discussion is better than none. I thought it was cool end of story. While other companies CAN do it, doesn't mean that they have, so its good for bragging rights.

    (i.e. honda could probably dump the k23 turbo into the si, and it would own the mazdaspeed, but that doesn't meant he speed doesn't get bragging rights as of right now with regards to having the most powerful version in general existance. The r32 could be cheaper too, and again, be even more competative.)

    i see your point however, so lets move on.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    The TT basically a GTI under the sheet metal, the 2.0T version, of course.

    You must be talking about the previous-generation TT, not the new MkII TT, which has an aluminum space frame that does not really resemble the MkV Rabbt/GTI in shape or weight?
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    You must be talking about the previous-generation TT, not the new MkII TT, which has an aluminum space frame that does not really resemble the MkV Rabbt/GTI in shape or weight

    isn't the mark II TT the same platform as the rabbit/gti mkV platform? I thought it was! :confuse:
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Yes, the MkII TT = MkII A3 = MkV Rabbit/GTI. All FWD versions use Focus-type Control Blade rear suspension designed by the Focus engineer. In order to cut down cost, VW is now thinking about ditching this expensive rear suspension & will simplify it in the next generation as soon as possible. VW also thought about bringing back the old MkIV platform in order to sell another new model costing under $15000.

    Recently I test drove the Rabbit but was disappointed by the lack of feel from the electric pwr steering. & the steering feel from the C230 6-sp wasn't that great, either. So I just ordered an (to be discontinued) '07 Focus 2.3 ST w/ traditional hydraulic pwr steering, just like the new '08 Mondeo driven by James Bond.:P
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    designed by the Focus engineer

    do you mean the concept of the control blade suspension? or the actual one designed for the mkV? Because i agree with the former and don't think the latter is true; i'm pretty sure vw moved to this suspension to compete with the focus, (in europe) but i doubt they recruited the guy.

    VW is now thinking about ditching this expensive rear suspension & will simplify it in the next generation as soon as possible.

    while this is no secret...i don't think its the suspension that is making it uber expensive; the car takes a long time to build in general. (if ford can slap it on a sub 20k focus, i don't see why vw can't!) the mk6 is suppossed to be quicker to build and use lesser quality materials in the cabin, and be sportier all around.


    disappointed by the lack of feel from the electric pwr steering. & the steering feel from the C230 6-sp wasn't that great, either


    while the steering on my rabbit is not as focused as it was on the civic; it still has feel, and its super smooth. And for an elctro set up; its great, the best this side of a civic si. Is c230 the name of the gearbox? if it is i'm assuming your talking about the auto since the manual is only a five speed, and how much 'feel' can it really have? it does great as an auto transmission!
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Yes, VW had to hire the original engineer(s) who designed the MkI Focus suspension. The stamped-steel Control Blade already saves $ over other multi-links design, but looks like VW "can't afford it" anymore. :P Back in the late '90's, even BMW disclosed that they were gonna use this whole MkI Focus platform for their future entry-level model in order to save development cost. Maybe for image reasons, BMW ditched this idea later. But the truth is that the new 5-link rear suspension from the new 1- & 3- series actually applied similar principle as the Focus 4-link rear suspension.

    Today, the original MkI Focus platform has evolved into not just the MkII-Focus/Mazda3/S40/V50, but the new Mondeo/S80/CX-9/Edge as well.

    I was talking about test driving a Mercedes C230 2.5 w/ 6-sp manual transmission & std sport package at model-end clearance sale, & it wasn't much more expensive than the GTI.

    I've always been complimenting VW Jetta's steering feel since the MkI. But starting the MkIV, the feel went down the drain, especially at the tire-grip limit. That's too bad, since the MkI/II/III were too noisy.

    By the way, I had to tap into the pwr-steering wires in order to make the steering of the U.S.-spec (non-SVT) Focus heavier & therefore similar to the original Euro set up. Doing this on cars w/o no steering feel to begin with will only feel like churning molasses. ;)
  • mapssimapssi Member Posts: 4
    I agree completely. From my own experience of 27 cars (I drive about 43000 miles a year) is how you take care a car not bad reputation that was build from some guys they did'n take care their cars and end up with a bunch of problems and they got so mad they told the hole world! :shades:
  • fasterthanyoufasterthanyou Member Posts: 131
    I bet the Honda will break down first. From my experience the Hondas are extremely unreliable cars..plus the build quality is really, really bad.

    Now about the cars that make the title of this thread. The VW GTI is the best of the three cars by far. It is much more expensive anywhere else in the world compared with the Honda SI and Mazdaspeed 3 and overall is just in another league. I pity anybody that cannot see the difference.
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    Obviously your on drugs. Honda has the best reliability of any car, even Toyota. VW's are historically unreliable. Of course you already know this. Thus the sarcastic post. Get a job!
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    fasterthanyou! so good to hear from ya man!

    NOT.

    Dude, i pity YOU. In one post you singlehandedly made the mazda honda and vw guys cringe and shake their heads.

    welcome back to the forum.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "In one post you singlehandedly made the mazda honda and vw guys cringe and shake their heads."

    Well, dunno about cringing. But he certainly had me laughing and shaking my head..... :P
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    Well, dunno about cringing. But he certainly had me laughing and shaking my head.....

    ;)
  • socal2006socal2006 Member Posts: 44
    I think (at least hope) that Faster was just poking fun at Carfanatic's fanatical post about Si handling saying that the Civic si is by far the best, by far the most fun to drive without any reason and without anything to back it up whether with numbers, real road experience, or even the opinions of various publications.

    BTW the Mazdaspeed3 is by far the best of these three cars. It's not even close. It's in another league. It will by far be the most reliable, and it by far has the best interior. It will by far have the best resale value. It is by far the most fun to drive.
  • joohnyjoohny Member Posts: 3
    If you want to see who is faster see this link
    it is a best times for manu regular cars on same tracks
    http://www.fastestlaps.com/track7.html
  • 4570sharps4570sharps Member Posts: 2
    Well, I was a big MKV GTI fan, and still would be if it were manufactured by the Japanese. I went to the VW dealership last week to purchase one. Asked the sales guy to go for a ride in the one I was going to buy. During our little test spin the check engine light came on! He began to wax on about how great the service department guys are and the nice wanting room (was vary nice, first class) and the loaner cars. Well guess what. I don’t want to get to now the service department or watch ESPN while my car is being repaired. Told him thank you very much and left. Sat down in front of the computer and discovered just how many web sites there are devoted to hating VW. Next day after work I stopped by my local Mazda dealer and purchased a True Silver Grand Touring with no added options. They are selling them at MSRP with no fees or other B.S.
    After driving the car for 3 days I would have to say I did the right thing. What I mean to say is Wow! This car is about everything RIGHT NOW. Accelerate: RIGHT NOW. Turn Left or Right: RIGHT NOW. Stop: RIGHT F#@$ING NOW. There is one major annoyance however. I think that the accelerator pedal could offer a little more resistance. It feels like I have to hold my foot just so to keep from accelerating. That gets a bit tiring after a while. Went and had a license frame made that says “A Wee Beastie” because that’s what this car is.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Check engine lights are related to emissions. It's a nothing light and most likely the last fill up someone forgot to tighten the cap all the way (the most common reason for a check engine light).

    Sounds like the salesperson was a tool; CEL = nothing to be worried about.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Not always true.

    Yes, the CEL lights up due to a evap leak of some sort (gas cap), but, also has to do with sensors (O2 and many more), cat's, PCM trouble. The list goes on and on.

    Most of the time a CEL is nothing, however, I have seen many instances where if not rectified, serious trouble is in the immediate future...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    All those are covered under warranty, so it's no big deal. CEL goes on, take it and get it fixed. But the majority of the time it's just a gas cap. It wouldn't be enough to convince me to avoid a car.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    totally true, the manual even mentions that this will happen if the gas cap is not tightened properly, that this WILL happen. Other things can cause it like avi said, but unless he was able to rule it out by actually checking it, its just as safe to assume that thats all that it was.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    sorry, but hes not joking. He is just like car fan, but a little worse; same attitude about a different car.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    Turn Left or Right: RIGHT NOW

    phew! what a relief! can you imagine if it DIDN"T turn when you wanted it to? :blush:

    Unfortunately statements like this make you almost along the lines of carfan and fasterthanyou.

    so i guess the list goes;

    carfanatic :honda flippin civic si
    fasterthanyou: m to the kizay V gti
    and 4570sharps: mazdaspeed weebeastie 3.

    ;)
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "phew! what a relief! can you imagine if it DIDN"T turn when you wanted it to?"

    The Mini Cooper turns even if you didn't meant to. See C&D's comparo w/ these 3 cars in this topic.

    No, seriously, I've also had a little of that problem w/ my '90 Protege LX (sport package) "rug-rat-style" steering rack. I finally calmed it down by using Bridgestone Turanza tires in the front.
  • fasterthanyoufasterthanyou Member Posts: 131
    Please do not compare me with the Honda fan-boy called carfanatic. My opinions are based on facts not on retarded slogans or fantasy reliability ratings and brainwashing ...read Consumer Reports. Just because car buyers in America don't know better than Honda and Toyota it doesn't mean that these cars are really what they are made into. In Europe VW is considered more reliable and refined than an Acura(European Honda)and the sales are showing it. I dare anybody to go and check the build quality on these three vehicles we are discussing in this thread. Look at the paint, how the parts are put together inside and outside. I bet Honda will make you puke...is that bad. VW wins by far while Honda is by far the worst of the three. People should learn how to look at a car. It's a Honda might have a different meaning if you actually look carefully at what you buy. To me "it's a Honda" translates into "it's a piece of junk". Like I said before these cars don't exist outside US and there is a good reason for that. The supposed premium brand(in US) called Acura is just a regular Honda in Europe and it still cannot manage to sell not even close to what VW sells.

    Now back to the comparison.. Performance wise, on a track Mazdaspeed3 will be the fastest but in the real world the absence of torque at low RPM makes the car feel sluggish until the turbo kicks, while the GTI rips with 207 pounds of torque from 1800 RPM. In performance department Honda looses again ..it is by far the slowest and the one that screams cheap through every pore. Pure garbage. Body roll is unbearable in the Honda SI and the seats are extremely uncomfortable ...again that's something to look into when you compare these three cars.

    The GTI is the total package, refined, nimble and fast at all times. If you are not a boy racer(in which case the Mazda will probably appeal more) there is nothing out there for the price that can match a GTI.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I dare anybody to go and check the build quality on these three vehicles we are discussing in this thread. Look at the paint, how the parts are put together inside and outside. I bet Honda will make you puke...is that bad. VW wins by far while Honda is by far the worst of the three.

    And many people will tell you they get to hear the proper/solid thunk of their door when they get out at the dealer, to get their car fixed. The last two VWs I rode in each had electrical problems (a 2000 New Beetle Turbo and a 2004 Jetta GLS). The New Beetle, with 40k miles on it, cost our family friend $2,200 to get her A/C and electrical gremlins fixed. 40,000 miles, and 5 years? Over 2 grand? 2 grand hasn't been spent on my 12 year old Honda with 174,000 miles.

    VW bulids a solid car, with great interiors (I really feel VW to hold the interior benchmark, I really do). But all this "honda will make you puke its so horrible" stuff won't help anyone get anywhere. It just makes you sound like a VW-fan-boy, something you said you are trying to avoid.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Yeah, VW offers good ride comfort, at least w/o sport package. Even the front center armrest in the Rabbit has full adjustment & a rear A/C vent. I don't recall the front center armrest of the Mercedes C230 sport sedan got this adjustment. The once-a-while electrical repair is the "luxury price" you have to pay, I guess.

    Cheap Honda's are for cheapskates who can't afford depreciation & repair cost. I sometimes want to be a cheapskate, but not when the new Civic's radio is not w/in my arm reach! :P

    I own a reliable made-in-Japan Mazda & can afford the depreciation b/c fun cars don't need to be re-sold.
  • fasterthanyoufasterthanyou Member Posts: 131
    "The last two VWs I rode in each had electrical problems (a 2000 New Beetle Turbo and a 2004 Jetta GLS). The New Beetle, with 40k miles on it, cost our family friend $2,200 to get her A/C and electrical gremlins fixed. 40,000 miles, and 5 years? Over 2 grand? 2 grand hasn't been spent on my 12 year old Honda with 174,000 miles."

    How about the engine repairs(engine sludge) for Toyota and all the automatic transmissions that failed right after the warranty ended for last generation Accords that cost owners between 4-9000 dollars out of pocket.
    I own an old Prelude right now and I think is a great car, so I understand that you trust the brand based on the experience with the old Hondas but those days are over. The American made Hondas are junks, designed and built poorly and sold based on the reputation Honda built with the real Hondas that used to be sold here.
    The new VWs are way better than any Honda sold in America today. Period.
  • fasterthanyoufasterthanyou Member Posts: 131
    The point I'm trying to make here is that nobody should hesitate to buy any brand of car because of reliability concerns. THERE IS NO CAR BRAND THAT BUILTS UNRELIABLE CARS THESE DAYS. While all car brands have lemons and you can end up with one regardless of the make of the car, you should buy based only on two factors: driving experience and resale value.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    and all the automatic transmissions that failed right after the warranty ended for last generation Accords that cost owners between 4-9000 dollars out of pocket.

    You mean the ones that Honda covered? Those paid for out of pocket were reimbursed by Honda if within the 100k miles.

    The new VWs are way better than any Honda sold in America today. Period.


    There is no "period" buddy. There is "your opinion" but there is no period.
  • vvileyvviley Member Posts: 46
    I'm not denying that decisions should be made on driving experience, but resale value?

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/115129/article.html
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11962665/
    http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022645

    I notice a lot of Honda/Toyota brands.... not so much VW's.

    And also, does this mean you're calling shenanigans on reliability reports from Consumer Reports & JD Power & Assoc.?
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    wow. this is incredible. I almost broke my shoulder this weekend, but this post was enough to make me pull it together and get BOTH my hands over to the keyboard.

    First things first; thanks to grad for good posts devoid of overly opinionated...well opinions.

    My first point to prove that you may be suffering from 'i have no idea what i'm talking about' syndrome is this:

    Body roll is unbearable in the Honda SI

    why? BECAUSE IT HAS NONE?

    the gti has been PROVEN to be the lesser handler of the two. Its totally the better daily driver for someone with priorties like me (a type of auto trany, FAIRLY(as in more than your average car) nimble, and lots of torque, hatchback), but the civic is defintely a more focused drivers car.

    But even VW guys will tell you that they enjoy some body roll; lets you know your cars limits!

    This point alone diffuses your whole post.

    But to take care of the rest of it....:


    Please do not compare me with the Honda fan-boy called carfanatic. My opinions are based on facts not on retarded slogans or fantasy reliability ratings and brainwashing ...read Consumer Reports


    ohhhh man! you really are opening up pandoras box here.

    Why don't you want to be compared to carfan? You are just like him, except your loyalty lies to a different vehicle! :confuse: Your opinions are based on facts? Then why are they still opinions? They should be devoid of all argument! But no they arent. Thats why they ARE nothing BUT opinions. Why cite consumer reports? do you want to be thrown to the dogs by the other members on this website? IF anything, consumer reports would be the absolute WORST way to get your point across that vw's in america are 'just as good as hondas' because as of right now, CR says they ARE NOT? did that not occur to you at all? :confuse:

    with regards to all the euro stuff; of course vw is more highly regarded there, everyone knows that, and even a honda guy will agree with the superior interior thing.

    But we are in america, and if you are not, then its apple to oranges. IF you are indeed in europe, you have NO civic si to test drive, just the type r which is even MORE focused than our version! your post has so many pot holes its ridiculous!

    most people in this thread HAVE checked out the interior quality on all vehicles; honda WORLD WIDE has been regarded as a maker of a great interior, even if it does fall short of vw. And the only people bringing that point up and slamming honda on it are, guess who, VW fanboys. (just so you know, i own an mkV and i owned a new civic for a year so i have a lot of experience on both cars, and they are both great, each with its own set of outstanding features and weaknesses.)

    it funny that you mention honda being acura quality in europe...people just expect their cars to be nicer over there i suppose. But outside of its german rivals, honda/acura interiors are totally on par if not exceeding their japanese rivals, and obliterating any american cars.

    my arm hurts again. i guess i'll just have to ignore your posts. they are (in my opinion based on facts :P ) useless.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    luxury should mean not having to worry about those kinds of repairs period.

    Do you really think its ok to pay more for something that amounts to lesser quality even if it looks nice?

    having said that, my vw has been awesome.

    You must be a hobbit if you have driven any civic with a radio out of arms reach.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Good post.
  • sbukvicsbukvic Member Posts: 1
    German's cars are amazing. However, according to the german's leading journal, Auto Bild, list of the most reliable cars for the year 2006 is as follows:

    1. Mazda
    2. Toyota
    3. Honda
    4. Hyundai
    5. Nissan
    6. Chevrolet (Daewoo in fact)
    7. Volvo
    8. Suzuki
    9. Mitsubishi
    10. Opel (GM branch in Europe)
    11. Audi
    BMW
    Smart
    14. Skoda
    15. Mercedes
    16. Ford
    Seat
    VW
    19. Kia
    20. Alfa Romeo
    21. Citroen
    22. Renault
    23. Fiat
    24. Peugeot

    Mazda is ranked first for the 2007. See for criteria: http://www.duemotori.com/news/auto_news/13868_A_Hat_Trick_for_Mazda_on_Auto_Bilds_Quality_Report.php
  • fasterthanyoufasterthanyou Member Posts: 131
    "Body roll is unbearable in the Honda SI

    why? BECAUSE IT HAS NONE? "

    That tells me that all you know about the SI is from what you read in the auto publications. Please take a test drive then we talk.

    its funny that you mention honda being acura quality in europe

    Honda is not Acura quality in Europe.... Honda is Acura. What America gets as a suposed premium brand are regular Hondas badged with a name invented for the American market...Acura. Real Hondas(American Acuras) are not bad cars.
    My criticism goes toward the vechicles sold under Honda badge in America that are absolute garbage. While I think that Acura(real Honda) can be a real competitor for VW the vechicles wearing the Honda badge in America are certainly not comparable.

    VW = Acura(European regular Honda) in quality.
    VW > American fake Honda
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    How'd you break your shoulder, eld?

    Mine has finally started aching since my wreck in my '96 last week. I guess that makes two of us (although yours sounds much worse!)
  • fasterthanyoufasterthanyou Member Posts: 131
    I'm a former owner of Mazda 6,3 and RX8 so I love Mazdas and I believe they are way better than the Hondas and Toyotas sold in America. When I bought the Mazda 6 in 2003 consumer reports didn't recommend the car and predicted the reliability to be poor. In 2004 again the Mazda 6 was rated poorly for reliability in Consumer Reports while Europe raved about the outstanding reliability this car shown and "Eldaino" thinks is a mistake for somebody to comment against this miserable publication that brainwashed the car buyers in America for years....
    I believe that Mazda and VW are the most underrated brands of cars in America and I hope car buyers will make wiser choices in the future. Don't keep buying junk badged as Honda that is built worse than a Suzuki.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    We get it. You think Honda's are crap. How many times must an opinion without basis be stated? Bashing cars by calling them "junk" isn't productive. It just gets us off track. Its obvious that you are trying to push people's buttons. If that's all you come for, I think you misunderstand the point of this thread.

    I'm still looking for the new information or insight you brought that made that worth posting. Instead, it looks very personally directed.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,372
    But let's try not to make this a personal thing please. It's OK to disagree about the vehicles, but putting a personal edge on things is not going to convince anyone to suddenly see things from your point of view.

    Let's agree to disagree and move on please.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaMember Posts: 707
    I had a rental Mazda6 with the 6-cylinder engine and an automatic (manumatic?) transmission...

    And it had some of the worst gearing, acceleration, and handling I'd ever seen in a car. I even fishtailed the car pulling out of the rental agencies parking lot... at idling speed, for pete's sake! I made sure to check the tread of the tires and they were not worn.

    Not to mention that the suspension was much softer than I'd have liked, almost Toyota or Hyundai-like in it's softness.

    Or the fact that I had to park the manumatic transmission in manual mode just to get the engine to rev over the 2500 rpm mark.

    I'll admit, with the transmission in manual mode, the car could accelerate (in a straight line) very quickly. Mind you, if the transmission was in the pure automatic mode, I'd have accelerated like an asmatic turtle...

    No, a Honda Fit would have been more fun.

    (or a GTI, Civic SI, Mazdaspeed3, WRX STi, or an Evo for that matter :P )
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I even fishtailed the car pulling out of the rental agencies parking lot...

    ROFL.

    1. When is fishtailing bad? Part of the problem with most FWD cars - you can't rotate the front easily.
    2. I say impossible as the car's FWD and has a severe understeer bias.

    Not to mention that the suspension was much softer than I'd have liked, almost Toyota or Hyundai-like in it's softness.

    Drive an off-the-lot car as the Mazda6 for its segment is tops. No flaccid Honda Accord or Toyota Camry can compare. Not even close.

    Or the fact that I had to park the manumatic transmission in manual mode just to get the engine to rev over the 2500 rpm mark.

    Shrug, no such thing as a good automatic tranny (DSG is not an automatic).

    No, a Honda Fit would have been more fun.

    I've driven the fit. It isn't. Even with a manual the Fit is wheezy and you can barely break 75. At that point there's a racket. Regardless, the Fit a cute econo-car but it can't fairly be compared to a 6. Or 3.

    (or a GTI, Civic SI, Mazdaspeed3, WRX STi, or an Evo for that matter

    Talk about an odd grouping. The Sti and Evo are in a different league from all of these - rally econoboxes with 280+ HP and AWD. Unrealistic to compare them to any of these cars. The GTI is a top of the line Golf. Mazdaspeed3 is a high end 3 that's far more expensive than the 6 you drove. And a Civic Si is...well a sharp handling, torqueless, boy racer with lousy interior materials and no room inside.
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