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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Comments
Isn't that priceless? Thank goodness the Sonata has standard traction control, standard stability control and standard ABS brakes for those spirited drives through the devil's freshly frozen lair.
I should have made it clear that I don't advocate choosing arbitrary portions of the test. Based on my analysis, I viewed the Price, Features and Performance categories of the test as being "biased" by Edmunds' approach, and hence unreliable for decision making purposes. Therefore I chose the remaining categories as being more relevant based on this analysis (as opposed to being arbitrary or cherry-picked).
Also, if Edmunds had picked similarly-featured models and let the Price category penalize higher priced models (Honda and Toyota), we be in a better position to quantify the "Honda-premium" or "Toyota-premium" associated with these models. Frankly, if I thought it would cost 20% more for a Honda with the same features as a Hyundai, I would be more likely to snap up the Hyundai and spend the difference on a big screen TV (or some other toy). Unfortunately, I can't easily make that decision based on this review.
If someone were to give me $21,000 to spend on either an Accord, Sonata or Camry I would have no doubt in picking the Sonata. But if someone were to give me a choice between the Sonata LX or Accord EX V6 i would pick the EX V6. I dont mind spending more for IMO a better sedan and i admit i dont speak for everyone.
Alpha01- I have no idea how Edmunds tests their cars, I trust Car and Driver more so i guess Accord and Sonata are equal in power :confuse: . If you notice the Accords 0-60 ratings are all over, Motortrend gives it a 6.5 seconds, Car and Driver 7.0, Edmunds 7.5 and i just recently found 6.7 from Modernracer.com.
The Spyphots of the new Camry are gorgeous. I hope the Camry will atleast look something like the spyphotos.
Ctalk, how do you keep saying the Accord is such a better car?? The interior quality, weildings, paint job, stability control, traction control, NVH level, styling, all belong to the sonata. Are you pertaining to performance only?? Yes the engine, and steering belongs to the accord, but that is a joke if u think thats what a midsize car is only about. This is a family mid size comparison dealing with quality, price, just or even more important than performance only. Please don't keep shooting yourself in the foot by saying the Accord is the better sedan unless you utterly just mean by performance, overall thers no doubt who is the winner
Adding a V6 can also affect handling and steering--again because of the extra weight, but moreso because of what comes with the V6. In this case, if you compare the Accord EX V6 to the Sonata LX the tire sizes change. Other reviews that have tested both the regular tires and 17" tires on the Sonata have noted that the 17-inchers handle better.
I will spend more $ on a car to get a better car but only to a point. Once a car crosses my "has everything I need/want" threshhold, I will buy the least expensive car that crosses that bar.
You really think Toyota and Honda are just going to let Hyundai slowly make its way to the top. Toyota and Honda have been doing this for so long, i trust they will come out with great cars at a competitive (but i admit still expensive) price. The 3 year old design Accord still have some areas where it can beat the Sonata in. The Sonata should have as good or better transmission, braking, suspension and steering. You said "unless the camcord drastically change which i doubt they will because they are cheap as heck" If you look at Honda and Toyota's history with every new design they improve everything about their car. If the new Sonata can not beat the current Accord in steering, transmission etc. I to have doubts how the 2006 Sonata will hold against the new designs from Toyota and Honda. The Sonata will have to have a pretty big refresh.
The Sonata is very well equipped at a excellent price but i really loved the fact that the Accord had a power passenger and dual-zone automatic climate control. I also loved the Accords firmer suspension and better steering. I admit any model under the EX-V6 (EX-L, LX V6) i would buy the Sonata over them anytime.
Choe13- The Accord is a well rounded vehicle, its seats are very comfortable, reasonably spacious and has a high quality interior that is equal to Hyundai's or better, as for styling i do admit the Sonata's styling is better then the Accord's but IMO needs to be more distinctive (paint job?.. i dont see how Hyundai's paint job is better then Accords). The only car i would say is better then the Sonata is the EX-V6, i do admit the Sonata is feature-packed and has a long list of standard safety features Honda can not match and a price that is unbeatable, but the EX-V6 is comparable (not in price but in everything else and does a little extra to give better transmission, etc.) The Sonata is a great vehicle i admit, it really gave the Accord and Camry a kick in the behind, but i still feel the EX-V6 is better IMO.
Widely-recognized example of where Honda went one step forward, two steps back in going from one generation to the next: the '01 Civic. Personally, I also thought the '86-'89 Accord was superior to the '90-'93 generation, and the '94-97 gen was superior in many ways to the '98-'02 years. But with the competition heating up, Honda can't afford to miss with the next generation Accord. Not only is Hyundai coming on strong, but GM and Ford are putting out some good mid-sized cars too--or will soon (Fusion). And don't forget Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, and VW.
But I have got to say that Honda has just been beaten.
When you add up all things and consider what you can get for the price, the Sonata is the clear choice overall.
I am a FIRM believer (like my buddy Alpha :P ) that this car has Honda and Toyota scared to death.
I am willing to bet that the "Conservative" Honda and Toyota folks are going to be working overtime to get these new Accord and Camrys to the market.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new Accord is pushed up to early 07 similar to the Camry's debut in early 06.
The point is SIMPLE. Honda and Toyota have got to start offering more features on the lower trim levels.
An Accord should come standard with a power driver's seat in LX trim, disc brakes should be standard in ALL Trims, not just V6 and EX models.
Simple options like fog lights should have been standard on the EX and V6 models.
Stability control, TRAC, and ABS should be standard (the last one already is)
And Exterior styling of both cars will have to be fixed up as well...
We have a new car on the docket folks..that's all it is to it.
I was an avid fan of the Accord (still am), but the truth be told, the Sonata is offering more value for the dollar bill.
It only makes me wonder what Nissan is going to do with its redesign.
Nissan is even further behind on the safety stuff compared to Honda and Toyota, much less Hyundai.
And did anyone notice that the 06 Accord LX will now have alloy wheels standard, and that LXV6 models will get 17 inchers, power sunroof and other options that LX models never had before???
I think the launch of the Sonata played a key role in that folks...
But i have no doubts when i bought my 05 EX V6 maybe a little, i really love the new 6 speed manual the Accord EX V6 will have.
Poor compromise between ride and handling, Mazda 6 handles better with similar ride, Camry offers way better ride
Accord is loud for a family sedan when compared to Camry and now 06 Sonata
Ugliest car in it's class, even with mid-cycle refresh
In 98, accord was at the top of it's class, now it is an also ran.
~A thoroughly satisfied 00 Accord owner.
- I do agree with the ride and handling, but i think the 6 has a even firmer ride. I drive on pot-hole filled roads everyday, the Camry definetly would be better for the roads i drive on, but its boring ride turned me off.
- The only models that actually looks good from the Accord are the EX models, I hate how the LX-G and LX-V6 wheels look so cheap (and ugly). The new Camry does look nice, the LE looks a lot better then the LX-G. But Camry's attemp to jazz up its SE-V6 was IMO tacky looking, I was considering buying it but prefered the 2004 model more. But Camry's 2007 design looks gorgeous from the spy-photos, i really hope it comes out to look a bit like that. Accords refresh I find the back looks to similar to, too many cars (Mercedes E class, Grand Prix), but i love how rear LED's are now in Accords.
- The current Accord was top of its class, but the aggressively priced, very well equipped new Sonata forced it to be second (something Honda's not use to :P). I'd really love to see atleast one of the sites compare the Top of the line models, the EX-V6 still has a good chance at getting first IMO. The comparison Edmunds did was a no-brainer. I mean look at what you get in a Sonata for 20,000 and look at what you get in an Accord. I have to say, Sonata has a lot of bang for the buck. Honda should learn to put more features in their lower end models (same goes with Toyota), the only models that are well equipped are the EX-V6, and EX-L.
-But to be fair Hyundai is going up against 3 year old designs, the next generation designs from Honda and Toyota will probably put it at the top of the list yet again.
But at what price? What level of content, etc. They may be 3 year old and due for an update, but those 3 year old designs are already more expensive than the new Sonata design. How much higher can Honda and Toyota go with their new designs? If they are smart, they will follow the Hyundai model and add content and features to their new designs and hold the price or drop it. Otherwise, the Sonata becomes an even greater value against the new Accord/Camry duo.
0-60 time for Camry, Accord, and Sonata were 10.3, 9.5, and 8.2 respectively. Even my mom could get better numbers than that when she is in a rush :P Were the reviewers going easy on the car on purpose ?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=101056/pageId=57512
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=437&page_number=7
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=1807&page_number=10
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0304_fam/index4.html
http://automobilemag.com/reviews/0411_legacy_comparo/index.html
And now little Hyundai comes and stops the Accord's streak. Good job.
Anyway, I don't think Honda should lose sleep over the Sonata yet. The Accord has and will probably continue to top the midsize sedan charts. The 2007 refresh should help with that.
But Hyundai has done a commendable job of building a high quality vehicle loaded with numerous standard features for such a low price. I don't doubt the new Azera and Santa Fe will have such success in their own segment.
The previous Sonata got 8/10 in C&D and Edmunds comparison tests. This new car is a huge improvement, thanks to the strong engine.
Hopefully the new Fusion/Impala will also do well in the midsize sedan segment. The cars they replace are 5 years old.
Toyota- are you listening? For the 07 redesign, we need to see the suspenders and steering tightened on all models, without major sacrifices in ride quality. Even small modifications such as increasing the rear-anti roll bar diameter and adding the strut tower brace to all models would be fairly cheap and effective, no? 16 inch tires are a must on the base and LE grades, as are disc brakes on those models and standard side curtian airbags everywhere. Please inject a degree of style in the interior, but DONT change materials quality. (Otherwise, feature content is pretty decent- steering wheel audio, 8 way power driver's seat, electroluminescent gages on the LE.... not too bad).
Re: the Fusion and Impala- the Fusion, yea its a contender, but I dont know how strong it will be especially given that the new Camry will come on its coattails. What the Fusion has is sharp exterior styling and a good chassis. Equipment, options, standard safety features, power, and the interior leave a lot to be desired, IMO.
The Impala is a full size car and doesnt compete as directly against the Sonata/Camry/Accord, though looks to be a huge improvement.
~alpha
Toyota Raising Prices to Help Ailing U.S. Auto Industry
Personally I think the Fusion is one ugly cuss, especially in front, but the interior looks classy and at the right price, with the Mazda6-based platform, it could be a contender.
Anyway, good job Hyundai.
Yes, there are the fixed vs variable costs to be factored in. But with the volume Toyota is talking about, the variable cost won't change much. There could be "some" payroll deduction and Toyota could wind up making more money than they do pre-price increase.
MSRP may go up but invoice might stay the same. Their dealers could really play with this without affecting Toota's corporate policy of trying to help other car companies.
And According to CAr and Driver Sonata LX with 17" wheel out handles the Accord V6.
SONATA LX RESULTS/ accord
C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION: Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.4
40 mph: 3.7
50 mph: 5.3
60 mph: 7.0 60 mph: 7.0
70 mph: 9.3
80 mph: 11.9
90 mph: 14.9
100 mph: 19.3
110 mph: 24.8
120 mph: 31.9
130 mph: 43.7
Street start, 5-60 mph: 7.3
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 6.0
50-70 mph: 5.1
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.5 sec @ 92 mph 15.5 sec @ 92 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 137 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 191 ft 202ft
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.79 g P205/60VR-16 Michelin Energy MXV4s (0.74 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive
FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 20 mpg
EPA highway driving: 30 mpg
C/D-observed: 19 mpg
INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
Idle: 38 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 74 dBA
70-mph cruising: 67 dBA
Pretty much the same thing I've been saying all along.
The new Sonata looks really sharp. The rear end resembles the Accord's, but it looks a lot better on the Sonata.
The fact of the matter is, price IS an important consideration for most people. Hyundai = great value.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0402_family/
You're right automobile did put the Legacy first.
When they look at Hyundai, they think the reason why its so well priced is because its a inferior car to Toyota and Honda.
I'm not the one who brought up the comparisons, jrock65 did. The Accord actually didn't win in two of the articles that jrock65 provided.
Automobile liked the Subaru best, Mazda second, and Accord last.
Road and Track messed up their ratings and they pointed it out in a later issue. The rating they messed up on was luggage space. The Accord was rated better than the Mazda6 in that category when in reality, the Accord's trunk is slightly smaller the Mazda6's AND has gooseneck hinges that intrude on trunk space. There is no reason that the Accord should've been rated better for luggage space than the Mazda6, it should've been the other way around. The Accord and Mazda6 were so close that if Road & Track didn't screw up luggage space rating, the outcome of the comparison would've been different with the Mazda6 either tieing for 1st, or winning outright.
I did read the comparison by automobile, your right about the rankings. But i thought the comparison was unfair, Honda Accord vs. Subaru Legacy wagon?
About the Road and Track comparison, I believe the Accord and 6 would have tied for first.
Then there's the relative quality or value. Take 2 good lawn mowers. The "experts" say brand A is rated 5% better than brand B. If the price difference is 5% or less, brand A is a good deal. If brand A costs 25% more than brand B, brand A is not as attractive. The value just isn't there. But the uninformed consumer will still opt for brand A assuming more expensive means better.
As others have said, Hyundai is still suffering from years ago when they made crummy cars. That has changed, but it takes several years of experience to improve a car maker's reputation. Honda & Toyota overtook their deserved crummy car reputation when they started making good cars...but it didn't happen overnight.
I didn't realize the luggage space issue with the R&T comparo. So I guess the Accord tied for first in that one.
http://www.japanesecarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoid/6050720.001
~alpha
Well, if you look at how Road and Track rated the cars, I think the Mazda6 would've actually won the comparison.
Out of 600 total points, the Accord scored 566.0 and the Mazda6 scored 565.4. The difference is .6.
The luggage space rating for the Accord was 10 and the rating for the Mazda6 was 8.8. The difference is 1.2. The EPA cargo volumn for the Accord is 14 cu. ft., the EPA cargo volumn for the Mazda6 is 15.2 cu. ft. The Accord has gooseneck hinges, the Mazda6 has double hinges/struts. It should be a no-brainer as to which car scores better for cargo volumn. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough to change the outcome of the comparison.
Switch the luggage space ratings around----the way it should be, and Mazda6 ends up the winner.
The new Sonata is definitely going to cause a dent in all the major contenders, its really seems to be an excellent car.
but if you get to lexus, it is amazing how much better they look. even the es , which is an enhanced camry, looks so much better.
The sonata RIGHT now and for a few years later is going to be the best looking mid size.
What can you say, its a smaller Audi A6, just gorgous and will age well.
Looks are not everything, but if your car is also good everywhere else, it can make the big difference(unlike the pontiac G6 which looks good and tahts about it)
Who was comparing the Mazda6 and Mazda3 and what do the sales of the Mazda6 have to do with what we're talking about (comparison tests)?
I like the discounts BTW.
I bought this for $16,800 @ 0% for 60 months:
FWIW, the Avalon is so ugly that, at the current pace, its going to sell about 35 THOUSAND copies more than the originally projected 85k/year, if TMMK can produce 'em. In other words, your opinion seems to be just that.
~alpha
I never thought the various Lexus models were anything to write home about although I really like the new GS and IS. Styling is just too subjective to argue about.
I know most camry owners don't care about that kind of stuff, but i don't know if i cannot.
Styling is subjected to a point but also objective to a point(like being colorblind or not). Toyota has to understand, function design is great but function design with some pizzaz is even better(with such loyalists customer i think its just to do something extra , like what sonata has done)
"with such loyalists customer i think its just to do something extra , like what sonata has done" Your opinion on Sonata's styling is very subjective. The majority of auto reviews have agreed that Sonata's styling, although handsome and clean, needs to distinguish itself from its competitors.
yea, I love my car, and I love cars in general, but I could careless about the "show-off" factor. I would love to own a GS, but not for its "wow" factor, if it has that- I dont really need my car to make me feel like a well rounded person, in terms of getting attention from others... though perhaps some do need that [attention].
Your analogy to the objective/subjective-ness of being colorblind is odd. And I think the new Sonata is attractive, but it looks like an 03/04 Accord from the rear and about a dozen other cars from the front. Im not sure what 'extra' Hyundai has done. (Not knocking the car, I think its phenomenal, I just never really thought of styling as a selling point...)
~alpha
Of course the Sonata is not exactly Audi A4 or A6, but its very close to anything that resemble those cars(hyundai has said straight up those were the cars to copy)
Maybe the Hyundai emblem creates this idea this car is less attractive or whatnot, but the lines and the harmony of design is flawless(nothing looks out of place)
and please the back DOES not look like the Accord, please that is ridiculous. The accord back lights are more to the middle and have this odd shape to them(no wonder they are even changing it for 07). Hyundais is more to the upper area and are shaped properly.What car company would even dare copy such an ugly end?
Click on these pictures and see it for yourself
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/2006-Hyundai-Sonata-code12-cid99.htm
and
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/2006-Hyundai-Sonata-code12-cid111.htm
Lastly you said Hyundai Sonata makers didn't do nothing extra?? How do you call a car thats considered the biggest in its segment, one of the biggest trunk space, interior space and all enclosed in a harmious design called nothing extra?? Very unessacery as they could have just did one or the other and use their price advantage, but they just didn't stop.
When I linked to the picture, I thought it was an Accord until I enlarged it. It may not to you, but it does to me (and obviously some others.) That's why it's silly to discuss styling in any terms other than what you personally like.
Forget the NHTSA tests - Virtually everyone aces the frontal tests now, and the side tests are a joke, in that head injury measures don't count in the star ratings.