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High-End European Luxury Sedans



  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    The S8 screams German High Performance Luxury Sedan... I do find the rub strips on the doors to have a bit of an "after thought add-on" feel about them, considering the very well-executed and straightforward design.

    Would love to drive the new V10 in this car!
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Every night before I go to bed I pray that Audi will get religion and drop the oversized front grille. Can anyone tell me what other part of the car justifies that size blob in front? It's not only ugly, but just so out of place.

    Otherwise, the car is simply beautiful.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    I think it said ninty eight thousand euros......Tony
  • This is fantastic. I can't imagine anyone wanting an S Class after seeing this unless they are buying the badge.

    The front end is admittedly similar to the Roll Royce, Bentley and the Chrysler 300, but it is refreshing in a sea of bland front ends.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I can't imagine anyone wanting an S Class after seeing this unless they are buying the badge.

    Well there a few cars I can't imagine why anyone would buy them so to each his own I guess. ;)

  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    The front end is admittedly similar to the Roll Royce, Bentley and the Chrysler 300, but it is refreshing in a sea of bland front ends.

    Except those other cars all carry over the height of the grille to the sides of the car as well. That's why it works for these other cars-- but to me it just sticks out like a sore thumb on the A8. The rest of the car is basically a relatively low and sleek design with all visual cues horizontal, and then out of nowhere comes this exaggerated vertical grille. All IMHO, of course.
  • the S8 looks great.
    i would think that Audi has reserved room for future HP gains
    with this engine. it would be nice to see the price stay beneath
    100k. i could see paying an additional 10k to 15k for the upgraded
    engine but not 40k.

    on a separate has overnighted their own special
    kool aid to all of their faithful followers. the new LS is more attractive
    than the current if that were any challenge to surpass. :confuse:
    to my eyes it looks just like the GS but larger. my guess is the new LS will age
    prematurely because there is nothing distinctive about its appearance.
    price point and the reliability factor will bolster it's sales. the faithful will
    remark how beautiful it is but in the end it is still a conservatively designed
    automobile. a design that will be very quickly forgotten as soon as the next
    generation is released. now that lexus will be offering more than one powertrain
    and wheel base maybe the kool aid guzzlers will realize just how inadequate
    and simple the lexus line up has been since it's inception.....but most likely probably not! ;)

    people can say what they will about Bangle and BMW but the 5
    series seems to be aging nicely. i hated the look when they
    first came out but now i would prefer a 5 over every other car in
    it's class. the new S seems to be designed much in the same
    way. a lot to take in at first..... but my guess is it will become more interesting
    and attractive as time passes.

    one last thought.....why is it that the kool aid drinkers of the lexus fan
    club want/need lexus to surpass all other automakers? what is it about this
    group of people that they feel so personally attached to lexus and
    any successs lexus has in the market place? they remind me of the
    football fans that paint their faces or wear goofy outrageous outfits to
    football games. this success by identification is just down right scary!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    why is it that the kool aid drinkers of the lexus fan
    club want/need lexus to surpass all other automakers? what is it about this
    group of people that they feel so personally attached to lexus and
    any successs lexus has in the market place?

    Well I won't take that too personally because I like to think that I'm one of the more balanced Lexus fans. But you do realize that some of the folk that frequent this particular board can be accused of the same sort of thing, but with a particular German brand?
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020

    I have been a diehard Audi fan since I leased my A6 2.7T in 2000 (I now own an S4 Cabriolet). I can be pretty sure that the S8 will not be that pricey in American dollars. Generally, it would be about $20K less than the new AMG S-Class. I'm going to say $95,000 in AMERICAN dollars. The A8L is $70K, anyway, and this has 115 more hp, and more standard features.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Love the Phaeton. I don't love it just because I love Audis- I know it's a Volkswagen, and I love the A8 too. I just don't think there's much of a chance for success there. I see about three times as many A8s than Phaetons here (I live in a prestigious suburb of Chicago), and I think I know why. I have many reasons:

    1. Of course, the Audi badge. For only $2,000 more and you're getting a car that's just as good as the Phaeton, why not?

    2. ASF (Audi Space Frame)- it makes the A8 about 800 lbs. lighter, making it easily quicker but just as plush.

    3. quattro- Although the Phaeton has an AWD system, Volkswagen's system is not as advanced as Audi's. Audi would never sell them their monumental rights! But, Volkswagen has the last-generation Haldex AWD system, while quattro has Torsen. And, there's the name- everyone trusts quattro.

    4. Styling- although this is different for most people, and the Phaeton is a very handsome car, most people regard the A8 as better looking. I think it looks much lower to the ground than the VW, making it look more dynamic.

    5. Interior- Volkswagen does not have much experience in the luxury business, so I'll give them props for a first time well done. It does, however, seem too cluttered. The A8's design flows much better on the inside. Audi uses more exotic wood trim, better NAV systems, and Alcantara inserts.

    Okay, again, props to Volkswagen for trying. They should make a full-size Skoda.
  • Whoa. Not so fast on the AWD stuff. I wouldn't agree that Torsen is necessarily better than Haldex. Haldex certainly is a better known brand of clutches and power train components than Torsen. Moreover, Volvo with their Cross Country switched from Torsen to Haldex.

    I suspect that the real difference in AWD systems that can be felt by the driver is the % of traction directed to each axle. The VW Toureg is roughly 50/50 front vs. rear axle. The Porsche Cayenne which shares the same AWD system as the T-Reg is much more oriented toward the rear. For this and other reasons I bought the Cay. What is the percentage break down on the Phaeton vs. the A8?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I was kinda expecting a little more power. Audi is counting on the weight difference between the S8 and the A8L W12 to provide the S8 with an straight-line advantage over the W12 engined car. Of course the swb S8 has a tuned suspension setup so the handling will easily be better in the S8. I guess they're saving the really big hp for the RS8, if there is such a vehicle coming. Now I wonder if the upcoming S6 will have the same V10.

  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    Audi UK has all their S8 data online....

    link title
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    My own reaction to the picture of the new S8 grille is stunned disbelief.

    The fender flares on the new S class are understated to the point of near invisibility when compared to the S8 front end.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    I hope you are right....I just took the stated ninty eight thousand plus euro and added say twenty percent....Personally I think your price is more in the ballpark for them to sell some....Tony
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well I think they'll both have to be seen in person before making final judgements, imo. The grille on the Audis looks good to me. All 2006 A8s have the big grille not just the W12 version like on 2005 models. As for the wheel arches on the S I think it is severly dependent on angle - at least in photographs.




    All nice pics imo, even stunning. However........



    these same arches are exgerrated in these.....

    Not to bad here.

    I've just gotta see this car in person because so far the wheel arches in the rear is the only thing I see questionable. The arches seem to have been styled for the AMG sport package than the regular spec car. :confuse:

  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    I think alot of thes looks and comments will moderate if the price is adjusted, or the lease is reasonable and supported by Mercedes.....I would have possibly (after I saw it ) gotten one IF the price were right. One thing is the engine will be superior to them all, and the seat will also if what I have read is accurate.I just think most people just don`t see the extra cost of the mercedes verses the lexus..I also think we are getting set for a recession shortly, so people will be more cost conscience....We`l see....Go sox Tony ps I`m a marlin fan, but not a heavy duty baseball fan
  • hey merc1,

    i agree, the car seems to have been designed with the AMG model/sport package
    in mind. like you i feel the rear fender bulge seems to be a little to wide to my eyes(left to right, side view, rear quarter panel). overall though the exterior is
    fresh and unique.
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Sorry esf, but the Phaeton and A8 both use the same AWD system - 4Motion and quattro are identical and both Torsen.

    I think the VW looks lower to the ground in euro-spec trim. The US model is jacked 1/2 inch to allow for our roads. Tires are also "shorter" on the Phaeton by 0.70 inch giving even more fender/wheel gap.

    Audi and Phaeton wood are equally outstanding, but there's tons more wood in the Phaeton all across the dash when the vent covers are down. Alcantera headliners available for Phaeton ROW, but not USA.

    I hope VW continues to develop the Phaeton - a twin turbo W12 or the V10 would be nice. And, of course, better wheels/tires!

    I'm upgrading my wheels and tires - to Bentley!


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  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    That is a nice looking car, and a nice upgrade to boot.....Tony
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    The grille of the new S8 is way too big. The Phaeton looks just like a big Jetta.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081

    I have to say I love the way this looks. Pure aggression.

  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    S8 looks like a big A4. :-)
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    I just got back from a short trip on a private plane....I checked out the parking lot, and noticed only one high end car out of say fifty to sixty cars. The great majority were suv, mostly dirty from the roads the people use to get to their country places or plantations in the old world....There are a good many jets and turbo props and that is what the executives really crave....I must admit it is the finest form of transportation in this era...It is also the most abused, and we--all of us--support it through the tax laws....Tony
  • This is one very ugly vehicle.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    You and I are split on this one.

    It is an aggressive grill but IMO it is unrelated to the styling on the rest of the car.

    It looks out of place, kind of like a pit bull muzzle on a golden retriever body.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    I think you're looking at about 110-115k in US dollars when the S8 comes next year. The RS4 is going to be 75k in the US next spring. No way you're going to get the V10 S8 for 95K. The old RS6 back in 2003 was 85 G's. And that car didn't a V10 engine.

    RS4 is mid 70's
    S6 will be 90-95K
    S8 will be 110-115K
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You and I are split on this one.

    Well it happens. People have disliked the new grille design from Audi since day one. I didn't like it either until I saw it in person.

  • fans: some good news! Sales are better than the doom and gloom media types were predicting. Year to date units sold are down less than 1% across the line.

    The M and the SLK are carrying the ball for the brand right now. Most other models are showing double digit drops for the year.

    See details: link title
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Actually that link isn't working allow me: ;)

    Oct Benz Sales

    One thing is for sure Mercedes clearly exceeded the planned 8-10K sales for the CLS, at over 12K for the year so far with 2 more months left.

This discussion has been closed.