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Are you sure you are figuring the mileage correctly? Fill up/write down mileage/drive till at least 3/4 empty and fill again. Then divide miles driven by the gallons to refill. Better yet, do this over several fill ups to compensate for overfilling or underfilling, which can happen. I would ask the dealer why they rate the car at 22-23 mpg in the city if it is normal to get only 10-12. That sounds crazy!
I got 13 mpg from a V8 powered Nissan Titan, can't imagine a Camry doing worse than that unless fuel is being stolen out of the tank or running out of a fuel line somewhere.
Good to see you troylikesbikes.. long time no see dude... Caazguy
If you regularly use the same pump, and we assume it always automatically clicks off at the same point every time, it's only necessary to be consistent over a period of time to gete an accurate calculation of fuel mileage.
BTW, I'm still getting in the mid thirties around town and low fourtys on the interstate on my 2011 Camry 4.
Filled up my 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT w/260hp, supercharged V-6 that went 330 mi requiring 14.583 gals=22.62mpgs..Driving on this tank was 191 miles on I-75 at speeds 75-90+ and the balance of 139 miles around Venice..Indicated average MPG was 24.0..No a/c, however sunroof is open around town..
My Mustang GT averages around 20 around town and maybe 22 on the eway at 75+..
The Camry usually gets around 24 in city driving which isn't really great for a 4-banger..
My Mustang GT (2004) was an 18mpg around town 28mpg on the highway, 5 speed stick.
99 % highway driving. 65 MPH. Used cruise control most of the time.
I averaged 30 to 33 all the time. the highway I use doesn't have too much traffic. I use cruise as much as possible. by the way I am using chevron 87 and castrol synthetic motor oil. Michelin primacy tire.
EPA rated 22 city 32 Highway
Total miles driven 1864
Avg MPG 15.74 on 9 fill ups
You don't say if the Camry is garaged but, in any case, a 30 SECOND warm-up should be plenty sufficient. All you need to do is to get the oil circulating and, with the proper grade winter oil blend, idling for 10-15 minutes is unnecessary and will use a HUGE amount of fuel.
Also, under very gentle acceleration my 2011 comparable Camry does not shift into 6th speed until about 37 mph. It's possible she's doing a fair amount of driving in 5th gear.
On my v-6 I have the same fuel mpg's as you do. Some on this sight have suggest a upgrade in spark plugs. I too drive short distances and let the car warm up in the winter. My mpgs are around 15-16 also in the winter. I'm not happy about it at all and feel I have problems with the transmission and it shifting points. Toyota just keeps saying it's normal though you and I no it's not.
Our 4 cylinder gets zero warm up time, and the temperature needle is moving up and it is starting to throw off warn air (not hot) before we're out of the development.
We'll see what the dealer has to say. I will take the mechanic for a drive and we'll count the gears and where they shift. I will also address the spark plugs. However, in my 42 years of car ownership, I have never seen an underperformer like this one. My AWD Honda Ridgeline pick up got better mileage than this Camry. Enough said, but if anyone has more ideas or comments I'd like to read them.
My two vehicles are NOT garaged, so on a cold morning with ice, snow or frost on the windows, I need to get some heat into the vehicle in order to clear the windows. ---- Depending on the temperature, I might need to run the engine between 5 to 10 minutes to get enough heat to clear the windows. ----- I have a choice to make; ----- see out the windows & burn fuel to get heat in the vehicle, ---- or ----- have poor vision while driving and save fuel! ----- I choose to have heat! ----- Personally; ---- I think this "fuel issue" is getting "blown out of proportion" to the extent that drivers are reluctant to accelerate on the entrance ramp to a highway, ----- because they are afraid to burn excess fuel. This "lack of action" (acceleration), is causing accidents on the highway. ------- (WE AS A SOCIETY ARE OBSESSED WITH EPA!) ------When I enter a highway, I accelerate to highway speed, and then settle down to a cruising speed. ------ (YES, I BURN FUEL, BUT I DO NOT CAUSE AN ACCIDENT!)----- YES, fuel conservation is important, but in the process, you still have to "live" and "function." ------ I refuse to drive a vehicle in the cold weather that is not comfortable, SAFE, and at operating temperature. --- (I do not gamble, drink or smoke, so I will spend that money on gasoline, and in the process make myself comfortable!) ---- I work hard, and I want to enjoy some comforts in life! ---- Life is too short to worry about the "small stuff!"
Best regards. ------------- Dwayne :shades:
I live in se michigan and yes, mpg has been affected by winter fuel mix in some vehicles I have owned. Taking your 10% number, that would boost the overall mpg from 15.74 to 17.31. With about 1/2 city and 1/2 hiway, that is still way low from the epa 22 city-32 hiway. To your point of more time spent driving. While that is correct in certain weather and in certain traffic situations, the net effect to my wife is marginal I think. So far the numbers haven't stood out as being radically different during bad weather weeks. On the other hand one could make a case for improved mileage as overall speed is down as well in many instances. Over the long term, they probably cancel each other out. Again, I'm talking about my wife's driving habits and numbers only. Good stuff, all of it.
Where do you get the numbers to support the statement
With a 15 minute warmup more than half of yor gas goes toasted warming up the car:
Thanks,
When trying to decide whether or not to "warm up your vehicle" on a cold morning, ---- ask yourself this question: ------- "Would you jump out of bed on a cold morning, run out of your house and proceed to run a marathon, ---- or would you take some time to "wake up" and "warm up"?
By letting your vehicle heat up, this action, (while burning fuel), allows all the internals of the engine and the related fluids to expand due to heat. ---- This includes the piston rings, ( which seal the pistons to the side of the cylinder walls.) ----- Better fit = less blow by!
It might not be required by the manufacturer, but the vehicle does drive a lot better when it is warm, as opposed to being cold! (The transmission even shifts better!) ------ If you are driving a short distance, warming up a vehicle could be very important! ----- (Short distance driving, on a cold engine, will produce sludge!)
Starting and driving on a cold engine is very hard on the engine! ----- Lubricants and other fluids do not flow easily when they are cold, and this results in dry mating mechanical surfaces. ---- Lubrication of these mating surfaces is extremely important immediately upon cold start up! ---- (Cold oil does not flow easily!)
But like everything else associated with vehicle maintenance, there are many opinions and beliefs! ------ If you do not believe in "engine warm up" on a cold day, ---- do not do it! ----- NOTE: ------ In the marine world, captains DO NOT leave the dock until their engines are at normal operating temperature, (both diesel & gas engines / four cycle & two cycle / inboards, I-O,s & outboards)! ----- Why is it so important for a boat engine, and not important for a land based vehicle? ------ REMEMBER a boat is used mostly in warm weather!
The decision is yours! ----- Enjoy your vehicle! ------ Have a great day!
Best regards. ----------------- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
However, to the point, I'm just tryng to determine how much fuel gets burned on a 10 or 15 minute warmup before driving.
Your are asking the wrong questions! ----- You should be asking; ----- 1.) How much internal wear am I creating by driving a "cold engine" with "little lubricant" due to thick oil in the crankcase? ----2.) How much "blow-by" am I dumping into the crankcase, due to a lack of a seal between the piston rings and the cylinder walls because the pistons have not expanded? ---- 3.) How much stress am I putting on the automatic transmission? ----- Think of a vehicle as a human body! ---- When I wake up in the morning, I like to ease into life, take care of my personal needs, have a cup of tea or coffee, and slowly start to deal with the problems of the day! ---- The modern vehicle is combination of many systems working in a synergistic fashion to create a vehicle that is efficient, powerful, safe and operating within the defined emission limits. --- The oxygen sensor and the Cat Converter must be hot to do their jobs properly. ----- You are not saving money by not warming your vehicle. ---- Down the road, there is a possibility that you will be spending money on engine / transmission maintenance because of this action. ---- Five minutes is not that long on an average morning. ----- In an extra cold climate ten minutes will allow you to clean your windows properly and get some heated air on the windows. ----- But like anything else, the final decision is yours. ----- You purchased the vehicle, -- and you are paying the bills! ----------- As you can see from my other postings, both the the Camry & Malibu boards, I tend to give my vehicles VERY good maintenance. ----- I divide the oil and filter change intervals of the manufacturer in half, which results in changing my oil and filter every 2,500 miles. ---- I want clean oil in the crankcase on a cold morning! --- (Many people on these boards will disagree with me and my philosophy of vehicle maintenance, and that is "ok" since each one of us has a different opinion on this subject. ------ I respect their opinion, but I choose to act in a different fashion! ----- It doesn't make me right and them wrong! It just means that we see things from a different point of view. --- Engines are expensive and oil & filters are cheap!) Best regards. ----- Enjoy your vehicle. ------ Have a GREAT day! ----------- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:
And idling for 15 minutes uses as much or more gas than driving for 2 miles (5 minutes ?). Especially since the 15 minute idle is a fast idle because the car is cold. It is fine if you let the car run (it won't hurt the vehicle but it won't help it either), but don't expect to come anywhere near EPA numbers.
- Look up the cc's of the engine (volume of the cylinders)
- Note the engine idle speed RPM's, and divide by 2 (since in a 4 cycle engine a sparkplug fires once for every 2 revolutions, and hence you're only filling the cylinder once for every 2 rev's
- Volume times the number of rev's per minute, will yield the volume per min of mixed fuel that you are burning.
- Look up the air/fuel mixture ratio for the engine, and divide the total volume/min by that number. That will tell you how much fuel you're using per min. (The rest of the volume is air, which doesn't cost you anything).
- Convert the measurement from liters or cc's (whichever you are using), to gallons. You'll now know the gallons / min consumed.
- Multiple by the # of minutes of warm up, and the cost per gallon of fuel, and you'll have your cost per warmup.
As I tell my daughter, labels are your friend. Watch all your labels when you multiple and cancel them out, so you get the correct answer.
I keep my two cars in my two car garage, but for the past month I've left one outside and it's made a huge difference. The garage rarely gets below 40F even when it's 0F outside. The car inside starts better and runs better compared to being outside, not to mention not having to clear off the snow and ice.
Maybe the real solution is to clean out your garage!
If I lived in SD, I'd drive a diesel and never turn it off during the winter Here in the banana belt, it is almost April and we're still scraping ice in the morning in SE MI. I lived in Northern MI for a long time. Up North ( euphamism for Northern MI as opposed to where I live in SE MI) we'd keep the diesel engines on field equipment running virtually all winter sometimes. We'd also have oil warmers to keep our personal vehicles oil from becoming sludge overnight.
Anyhow, I love your neck of the woods. Spent a few days at Crazy Horse and Rushmore last summer. Black Hills too. Very favorable tax environment in SD too.
Where I live, we also use a "scraper" and a "brush" to remove snow and light ice.---------- (I think this invention was just introduced to New Jersey this year!) -- But when it comes to removing heavy ice from the windshield and the wipers, it takes some heat! --------- (A scraper will not do the job!)---- The only way that can happen is by running the engine and getting the defroster going to heat the windshield. (You cannot pour warm water on the cold glass!) ----- Any ideas on this subject? (Maybe I can use a "heat gun" and a very long extension cord.)------- If you want comfort, you need to expend energy! ----- You cannot bring in the "comfort war" under budget! ------ Dwayne ------ :shades:
That is the problem with the "city" figure -- it can vary so much depending on how the car is used in short-trip driving. The original EPA city mpg was based on something called the "LA cycle," as in Los Angeles, where it never gets cold. As I recall, the simulation started with a warm engine, without using a/c, and running the car for about 19 miles over about half an hour, with some full stops and a top speed of 48 mph -- not even close to your wife's city driving style.
My new high is 34.6 mpg.. I am using chevron supreme API SN/ GF5.
So I will not be using synthetic.. Dino oil will do the job, it is only $2 a quart, get better mileage.
So if you guys doing oil change DIY, Make sure you get the oil that have API SN/GF5.
I am consistently getting between 22 and 24 mpg on a 2010 Camry XLE, 4 cylinder. While unhappy with that low number ( though it is for 50% city driving in a large metro), my bigger issue is the in-dash mileage meter. This meter reports the mileage as 26 or 26.5 and yet when I check the mileage manually, it is much lower.
Can Toyota re-calibrate the meter? Has anybody had that done? Or do I just take its readings with a pinch of salt?
Thanks
Andy
As an example, from Walterboro, SC to Winchester, VA, my GPS says the distance was 326.2 miles, time traveled 5:24, average fuel economy 40.1 mpg and fuel cost of $29.24 using a $3.77 per gallon price. I have approximately 6800 miles and will change my synth oil for the first time in September. I am thoroughly pleased.
BTW. I'm getting sick and tired of all the whining and belly-aching about fuel prices from the public and lame-stream media. I set my cruise control on 60 and from FL to CT the complainers were flying by me doing 70-80 mph. If they want to *itch about fuel prices do something about conserving fuel!
OK, off my soapbox.
If lunch will be guaranteed I will check tomorrow manifold pressure on my Camry when it warms up Note that RPM and manifold pressure changes when engine warms up. Best would be to integrate fuel burned via OBD-II scanner and then normalize counting fuel pumped on the gas station versus ODB-II integral number between two fill-ups. Could do latter as well...
I am not sure what PSI recommend for 2010 camry.. I think 32 PSI.
When they got home from work they placed the heater in the car, connected the heater to the timer and extension cord, set it to turn on 30 min before they left for work, then plugged the extension cord into an outlet. They usually placed the heater on some kind of heavy base to keep it steady. When it was time for them to leave for work the car was warm and glass was clear or easily scraped clean.
They used this method for years and it saved them both gas and scraping frustration.
It seems that the mileage that you quote is a bit on the low side if where you are driving has areas where you can run 45 – 55. My 07 was a five-speed, the 11 is a six-speed. The five-speed would shift into fifth at about 48 MPH. The 11 shifts into fifth at about 40 MPH (1500 RPM) and into sixth at about 48 MPH (again 1500 RPM). If you accelerate up to where it shifts and then go lightly on the foot feed I think you might see an improvement in you mileage.
Back and forth to work,1/2 highway with 4-5 traffic lights and 1/2 interstate I average 28 m.p.g.
I have driven on a interstate at 60-65 m.p.h. and have averaged about 35 m.p.g. Using a calculator.
Since the car is brand new I expect these numbers to increase somewhat after the car is broken in.
I also use a torque application on my droid phone with a plug in that goes to my O.D. port. This gives me real time and trip average gas milaege just like the cars that have the gas mileage screen.
At a steady 60 m.p.h. no wind flat ground my car can get 37-38 m.p.g. indicated. At 70 m.p.h. it drops to closer to 30-31 m.p.g. indicated on my phone.
As for the accuracy of the electronic displays they are not 100% accurate. To be 100% accurate would require some very expensive hardware/software in your car. I expect them to be off by +- 3 mpg. However this doesn't render them useless. They can still be used to learn how to drive your car in the most efficient manner. The higher the number the better the gas milaege you are getting. I still use a calculator to figure out my gas milaege despite having the latest electronic gadgetry.
As for filling your car up you should stop at the fist click or round up to the next.25 cent point. Overfilling your car may damage the vapor recovery system.