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Subaru Minivan in 2007?
Subaru May Field Minivan for U.S.
Subaru could be the next brand to bring a minivan to the United States to compete with the heavy-hitting Chrysler minivans, Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey. Reports last week indicated that the new vehicle could be offered sometime after 2007, when the company redesigns its Legacy sedan and bumps it up into a larger size class. A Legacy-derived minivan could be built in the U.S. as well. The proposed van would be a seven-seater with all-wheel drive and a flat-six engine.
Subaru could be the next brand to bring a minivan to the United States to compete with the heavy-hitting Chrysler minivans, Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey. Reports last week indicated that the new vehicle could be offered sometime after 2007, when the company redesigns its Legacy sedan and bumps it up into a larger size class. A Legacy-derived minivan could be built in the U.S. as well. The proposed van would be a seven-seater with all-wheel drive and a flat-six engine.
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• There was a report of this, as you mentioned, last week. However the FHI guy was quoted as saying this minivan would be a "global" product, which suggests to me that it might not be quite as big as the not-so-mini Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda minivans. I hope I'm wrong here, because I think a Subie minivan needs to be the size of those in order to stand a chance. That maxi-minivan size is clearly what America wants.
• In order to do this Subaru needs to have a much more torque-friendly engine. There is a rumor that a H-6 turbo is just around the corner. Frankly, I'm not sure if a turbo is the best answer for minivan customers. My choice would be for a larger non-turbo H-6. I think it would be cheaper to build and buy, could be tuned to run on regular gas, and won't "scare" the average minivan customer who generally are skeptcal of turbos.
• A larger Legacy? Interesting... I wonder if it will be built off the Tribeca platform?
Bob
-juice
Bob
If Subaru even wants a chance at competing, or even toppling the Odyssey/Sienna/Caravan from the minivan throne, it needs to be fullsized, offering fold flat third row seat, Nav, DVD entertainment, refined powertrain, and storage space. You can't do all this with something MPV sized.
Mitsubishi makes the Space Wagon and Honda makes the Stream. Both are tall station wagons/minivans but they can't compete in North America because of their small size. Everyone's vacated that size segment because those vehicles dont sell (remember the Nissan Axxess, Eagle Summit?)
A large minivan doesnt mean sloppy handling. The Odyssey/Caravan are large, yet they handle the best in the segment.
Toyota has more dealers, tenfold more, and tenfold R&D resources as well.
Subaru has to play a little on the fringe, it doesn't necessarily have to be smaller in size, but something about it must be unique.
They'd be looking for 40-50k sales per year, and could achieve that with an AWD MPV, which Mazda never offered here.
-juice
Yep, boxer engine (and its inherent advantages) plus AWD. Also, nobody has done a high-performance minivan yet.
Bob
And who knows? Maybe someone will make a high performance minivan, with a V8 and 300+hp.
After all, two years ago did we ever think we'd have performance versions of the Trailblazer and Grand Cherokee?
-juice
Never pondered that similarity before, but you're right on in your comparison. (Well, except those are vans trying for an SUV look rather than an SUV trying to be a van.)
juice - thanks for the clarification on the 4WD.
It did? I thought it had 4 swinging doors. Then again, I'm getting older.
Speaking of 3 doors - why did it take manufacturers so long to figure out a fourth door was a good idea? Honestly, it was only when I saw a fourth door that it dawned on me.
Bob
Bob
It looks like there is a lot of interest in the Mazda5. An economical, sporty, true six seater? With 5 speed MT? Subaru needs to keep an eye on their sales.
John
Doesn't that describe the upcoming Mercedes R-Class?
Ed
Yumm.
R class is priced in the stratosphere, though I do like it. Subaru could do something like it for $15 grand less.
-juice
John
Thing is, it costs more than the ML, not less. Usually vans cost the same or less than similar SUVs (Sienna vs. Highlander, Ody vs. Pilot, etc.).
-juice
John
-juice
AWD minivans: Sienna, Benz... did I forget someone
FWD minivans: MPV (dying, apparently), Quest (not real hot), Ody (still the king), Sienna (highly rated), the new Mazda5 6 seater (has 5 speed and better mpg), and the T&C (not sure how highly rated they are), Ford Freestyle (come on Ford).
Must have missed someone, there sure are a lot of players here.
So can Subaru step in? An R-class minus $15? The value luxury van with AWD and boxer? Is there money to be made here?
John
GM does sell an AWD version of the Uplander, though.
Not much competition.
-juice
You forgot the caravan, which I believe is the best selling van for a long time now.
You missed all the GM vans, Uplander, Terraza, Montana SV6 and Relay. You forgot also the Sedona, which will be all new for 2006, which is when Hyundai launches its van, the Entourage.
An R-Class isn't really a minivan, I'd put it more in the field of SUVs like the SRX, FX45, X5, basically the fast car based SUVs.
Good luck Subaru. This maybe the most fun to drive van yet.
He's talking about AWD vans specifically, not FWD.
-juice
If the Freestar isn't a minivan, what does Ford offer? I thought the Windstar was history.
Ford should have embraced the MPV as their minivan offering, we own one and it is a well put together package.
Geez the GM line: I thought there was a GM "trio" but now there are four.
A good dozen minivans. Probably the Sienna will be the only AWD competitor for the Subie.
John
Ford wants to cancel it and build something like the Fairlane concept, which would share Freestyle parts.
-juice
this will compete well with minivans.
-juice
But stretching Tribeca is probably not what will happen... we digress from the "world car" statement made by Subaru. This has gotta be an MX5-sized van. If they do someday make a van for North America based on Tribeca, I doubt it'll be a world car.
it took them 5 years to bring tribeca.
Part SUV, (appearance, swing out doors) Part Minivan (3 doors) and Part Truck (4WD)
Geez... Mazda may have built the first crossover! :P
The Freestar replaced the Windstar name in 2004.
Thank god Ford didnt use the MPV platform to make a van. It might have sold well overseas, but in America we want fullsize vans.
Why Freestar?? Windstar was a much cooler name. And now Ford's van is outclassed. I remember our 1998 Windstar was way ahead of its times, before the Odyssey, Quest, and Sienna came.
The best thing I can say about Ford's van is that I love their two tone paint jobs. Thats one thing the Odyssey and Sienna dont have.
What was competitive in 1998 is an also-ran in 2005.
-juice
Eric
I'd like to see Subaru do one. It looks like some minor improvements are needed on the 5: rear AC ducts (if not standard AC), tinted windows, and a more powerful engine. The Subie 173 hp boxer would be just about perfect, even with the weight penalty of AWD.
John
It was a little smaller-looking inside that I expected, and a little more Matrix/Vibe-like in person than I expected (I think because it's short in height for a van), but much better looking and overall, very well executed. I'd like to see Subaru enter this niche before it's overcrowded, but worry that it'd steal from Tribeca base models since Tribeca barely seats 7 anyway. I say enlarge Tribeca before introducing a small mini. Or just introduce a minivan that's larger inside than the current Tribeca.
I'm a Tribeca fan, but on a Mazda 5 budget. The 5's an appealing package for the money.