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Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3
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The Aura is in no way 10th out of 20. CR doesnt have a clue.
As for the Aura reviews they have been overwhelmingly positive. The COTY Award at the Auto show was decided by Automotive Journalists and the Aura came in Number 1, finishing ahead of the Camry.
You don't see bias in CR? Thats OK, go by their recommendations. Personally I trust folks who actually know what they are doing. But even then I would never buy anything simply because it is recommended, I would always drive it to see if it felt comfortable to me. Sadly though, many people are lemmings and will not even shop around. Thats an ingredient for Toyota and Honda dealers getting arrogant. And consumers getting ripped off.
I could claim that all mazda dealers suck, but i didn't and they don't.
Well based on the same survey results mazda dealers arent so great either....so whats your point?
Two points:
1) Most people are creatures of habit. If they buy a vehicle and the vehicle does a good job for them, they go back and buy another. (Personally, I would have been happy to buy another Olds ... but GM doesn't make them anymore.)
2) Many people DO shop around. And they are NOT choosing domestic brands as often as they used to. I have driven every compact car in the US market (as well as several in the Mexican market) and the imports win hands down in that class. Why? Probably because it has been THEIR priority over the years. The domestics have conceded that market in favor of the suburban assault vehicles
Personally, I use Phil Edmondston's Lemon Aid Guides link title and some of the Canadian publications as tehy tend to be far more objective than CR.
I'm talking drivability. Reliability the Corolla gets the nod, although they are probably not as far apart as you think. Mileage also the Corolla has the edge. Personally I prefer the power in the Cobalt vs the mileage in the Corolla but thats a personal preference.
The past is past, when do domestics get a shot again?
When the first datsuns and toyotas came over they were tin cans. People gave them another shot. Perhaps its time to give domestics a shot also?
But to bolster your argument I will agree that Ford and GM have not put their best foot forward in the small car segment. The European Focus is far better than the domestic Focus and probably one of the best small cars in the world-so why does America get a second best platform?
As for GM I expect good things from the next Cobalt since the current one is pretty good, and the Saturn Astra is coming over from Europe this year.
But they have to keep constantly improving their small cars (and all their other cars too) in order to compete and win back market share.
Yet, Motor Trend named the Camry Car of the Year. LOL
May I ask how you decide one magazine is better than others at reviewing? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers disagree with what you said, and suddenly their cursed by ya? :confuse: Just because a vehicle doesn't get glowing reliability ratings doesn't mean EVERY vehicle will have a problem, just that a higher number of those sampled reported problems. You may drive a car rated lowest in reliability and never lay out a dime after 100k miles on repairs.
When they make good vehicles. Look at the Ford Fusion. Look at the Chevrolet Impala. These cars are doing well! The Fusion is quite competitive. The Impala has a quality feel not seen in GM products in a looooong time. The Cobalt hasn't benefitted from the Impala's upgrades yet, IMO. Just a little too cheap feeling inside.
I respectively disagree, and I will leave it at that.
Many people buy a Toyota based on what they read in CR, which is a biased rag. But I digress............
CR bases their reliability ratings on subscriber reviews. Many who subscribe to CR, live and die by their ratings. Most of their subscribers only buy the highest rated cars. That to me means it is a bit flawed. Many are not getting the complete spectrum of all reliable vehicles, I believe many are left out that should not be, perhaps. However, their recommended vehicles do deserve to be recommended.
In my opinion, Toyota's are over rated. They will run forever, but offer some of the worst driving dynamics. But, I am young. Toyota's average buyer is 51-55 (many are well over 60). Many, not all, in that age group do not car about performance or handling. Also, with that age group, many do not push their vehicle either, making it more reliable. Younger people tend to drive cars harder, making them more suseptable to problems. Look at Buick. They are recommended by CR, but every mechanically identical GM product is not. Buick drivers are much older and barley drive the car to begin with.
Personally, I believe GM products are getting better. I am not at the point where I would buy one, though. I have owned a Toyota, Mitsubishi, Honda, and Mazda. All have been great, with over 100,000 miles on all, except the Mazda (current vehicle with 30,000)
My family has owned 4 Taurus, among many other Fords, all with well over 100,000 miles, and virtually no problems. No tranny repairs or engine repairs on any of them. She still has the '97 Taurus with 148K and only repair has been the park gear cable ($75 part) other then normal maintence. Current vehicle is a '04 Mustang V6 Conv. with 45K, problem free.
I do not think Fords are all that bad. Some are pretty good. Look at the rating on the Fusion, they are great.
simply that i won't base my opinions on a dealer based on one experience or ratings i have not read. (and don't feel like i should have to, since my dealings with buying cars and my comments on dealership experience have never been of a 'all [insert car make] dealers suck' sort of nature.)
fair enough?
What source did you use to get that information?
Do you know what is the average age of the Honda buyer and of the Mazda buyer?
Ford own's a 'controlling interest' in Mazda. They actually OWN 33.4% of the company. This is different from Jaquar/Aston Martin and Volvo where these companies ARE 100% owned by Ford.
Internal Mazda resources. Just "google" it, and there are numerous automotive websites that state it.
Do you know what is the average age of the Honda buyer and of the Mazda buyer?
Mazda claims to have the youngest buyer, overall. I am not sure about Honda. My guess is it's somewhere in between.
Keyword "interest". Does not mean "own". This is a common misconception in the automotive industry when the two companies are talked about.
This profiling of car brands seems like a marketing mash-up. What's interesting is when one sees obvious misalignments of the marketing spiel and the buying reality as in the case of the Honda Element (which was targetting a youthful audience and got snapped up by a more senior group). Also, I wonder if the buyer's profile is more likely related to the "image" of the vehicle rather than the manufacturer. For example, would a younger buyer prefer a Toyota Yaris hatchback or a Mazda Tribute?
My statement was directed twards the respective companies as a whole. Mazda has they youngest average buyer.
A closer analogy would be the buyer of a Mazda6 vs Toyota Camry. The Mazda6 has a buyer is in their mid to late 30's, where the Camry has buyers that average early to mid 50's.
The Mazda3 (early 20's to early 30's)and Toyota Corolla buyer will be closer in age then the Camry and Mazda6 buyer.
That's my point. It's not the manufacturer but the vehicle that is used for targetting an audience. In other words, Mazdas are both older and younger than Toyotas. A Mazda Tribute is for an older crowd than a Toyota Yaris. Mazdas are not all young and Toyotas are not all old.
I prefer the styling of a Mazda3 over the Corolla or Civic but what does that mean? The true test is does the overall sum of the car beat out the competition? Reliability and pricing are the criteria most often cited for vehicle choice.
p.s. It used to be that a Mazda6 could be targetted to a younger audience than a Toyota Camry but these days I'm not sure. Personally, I find the latest Camry a real head turner and more interesting because it offers a hybrid version. Do hybrids appeal to an older or younger crowd?
Think about it, you're already older, and more mature (hopefully) so you're probably going to go for something cheap and practical, where as a younger buyer would only buy a cheaper if their pockets are not deep, or if they have funny taste in cars (my opinion).
True, but Toyota has a much higher aged average buyer, and Mazda has the youngest age average buyer.
OTOH, Toyota makes a pretty utilitarian vehicle with clean designs and without all "stylistic" curves. I see a lot of older people (meaning 40 and up) moving to Toyotas, especially people who traditionally buy Ford and Chevys and are tired of some of the quality concerns.
Mazda is gearing all of their marketing to the 16-30 yo male demographic
Very untrue. The CX-7 is late 20's to early 40's. CX-9 30's to 50. MX-5 45-50. RX-8 early 30's. Mazda5 30's to 40.
Toyota goes after the people that want a car that is going to last with utility. Mazda goes after the people that want a car that will last, and have fun driving it. Mazda expresses this in their mission statement.
"All children instinctively know it. A few adults still remember it. One unique car company refuses to outgrow it. In grown-up language, it means the exhilaration and liberation that come from experiencing sheer motion. But as usual, children put it much better. And simply call it Zoom-Zoom.
We practice it every day. It's why we build the kind of cars we do. Mazda. Always the soul of a sports car."
see a lot of older people (meaning 40 and up) moving to Toyotas, especially people who traditionally buy Ford and Chevys and are tired of some of the quality concerns.
Well, many are moving to foreign makes (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan etc.) because of horror stories with domestic brands. Asian brands are just more reliable.
When are the 3's getting redesigned? Do they let you guys know anything?
Personally, I think it is one of the nicest colors.
When are the 3's getting redesigned? Do they let you guys know anything?
My guess, and it is just a guess, is the Mazda3 will be redesigned for 2009. They have let us know nothing. We are still waiting to see the redesign for the Mazda6, which is rumored to be for 2008.
I am going to the NY Auto Show this week, maybe they will have a concept of some sort that will show the possible styling cues of the next Mazda6 or Mazda3, but, I doubt it
I wonder if it wont be as welcomed as the outgoing 3...much like the 1996-2000 civic was missed when the 01's came around.
I think they will keep very similar styling cues, and not change it to much.
I will agree with you about that statement about the Civic. The 96-00 Civic was extremely popular, and more stylish then anything else in it's day. I thought the redesign really killed the tuner market, and it really looked like a Ford Focus. The 01-05 style was not as popular to tune as the 96-00. The current Civic seems to be much more popular, although I am not a fan of the styling.
The avg age of a new mazda is in the mid 30's....and its the lowest avg of any new car mfg. Remember, the 16-20 yr old crowd has alot of desire but little or no ability to actually buy a new car.
When Toyota introduced the Echo as an entry-level car, they marketed it to the young driver. And the average driver was in their mid 40s as many seniors bought the car.
Many of the Ford and Mazda people that I have met as a fleet manager have stated that they are marketing the vehicle for younger people. However, if you are 75 years old and you have to have a Mazda 3, they will sell you one.
Marketing does not always translate to sales ...
I had a 73 yr old man buy a True Red Mazdaspeed3. He had to have it!
Thanks for your write up. I agree with what you have said. I just got off the phone with the dealer service manager and the Mazda 3 has a chain and the first oil change is at 7,500 miles. This is true. The book states this.
I went with the Mazda because of the safety features and not only that, look at what you get for the price. Heated front seat's for a mid-size class sedan? Who knew? There are many extras also. I also love the larger engine and the 5 speed auto trans with Manual shift. SIMPLY awesome!!! I an real impressed with it.
I test drove many cars, including the Civic, Cobalt, Nissan sentra SE-R, Toyota and VW GTI. I am not impressed with any of those cars. Some were worst than others. The civic truck is a joke. The VW was noisy and felt like it was going to fall apart. The Nissan was pulling to one side when you hit the gas hard. That new transmission the CVT does no justice to the car and makes the drive difficult. It shifts through each gear before the trans kicks in, that what it feels like. The RPM's go to red line before it waits for the trans to catch up to the engine speed. The worst thing that I have ever experienced. :sick:
I have found that the Mazda was very reliable, great price, great gas mileage, great interior, awesome options, the Bose system is simply breath taking and the moonroof adds a wonderful touch. What impresses me the most is all leather seats, 2.3 DOHC 16-valve I4 engine with VVT, ABS, DSC, SRS system, TCS, 17" rims, telescopic steering wheel, theft system with engine immobilizer, "Triple H" construction (based from the Volvo S40), and the tire pressure monitoring system. Simply awesome!! (I love those two words).
When you stand in front of the car looking towards the rear, it looks so impressive aero dynamic. It has a sports feel and look about it. Now adays, that is what most people seek or enjoy. I have read that in a car and driver magazine.
When you first sit in a Mazda 3 M3S GT the sit hugs you, like a sports car.
I heard that most cars have a timing belt, not chain, unlike the Mazda's. Civic uses a timing belt. They use a stronger steel belt. I only heard this and can not confirm this. :confuse:
It has a sports feel and look about it. Now adays, that is what most people seek or enjoy. I have read that in a car and driver magazine.
this is funny. so if c/d didn't say it, people wouldn't desire it?
Please don't get wrong, let me say, When I said "fall apart", I meant the sound of it that the suspension makes when I drove it. I just am hard pressed about VW because I got a lemon and no one seemed to care about that. The service at the VW was the worst ever!! They lied to me many times and made me pay for a labor charge on a recall. Now that stinks and hurts!!
No matter what car and driver say's, if you want the car, then you will buy it. I didn't buy the Mazda M3S GT because what c/d said. I bought it for the features, feel, quality and look. Simple as that.
By any chance, where did you get your screen name from? Do you listen to the stallionare's?
Woman called me back in the day, "stallion man" for a good reason and Re is my last name. Stallionre is what I am.
Its even better looking than my white Cobalt Sedan, which I lovingly named 'Honky'.
I just thought that was hilarious and you kinda remind me of it!
If you were tempted, but still ended up with one of these Compacts like the M3GT, CIvic, or GTI, please let me know your thoughts..
I am leaning most towards the Mazda 3 GT 5-door for more utility over the Civic, but am thinking that a Accord/Camry type car in a sport model might offer more bang for the buck.