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Mazda5 Owners: Problems & Solutions
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Comments
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=21615
but it goes to show how much Mazda wants this car to succeed,
anyway, this whole fake clutch thing is ridiculous to begin with, I have one on my other car, hardly ever use it, if you want a stick buy a manual!
I wonder if I'll have to get one of these "don't drive stupidly" stickers to get my car back.
I took mine into the dealer last Friday and I really didn't want to. I had a strong suspicion there was no real defect, but I bought into the culture of fear and left my car like most of the rest of you did.
If it really is as the press release states, I am getting quite agitated. Not at Mazda, but at the ignorant drivers who don't know the difference between manual shift mode and conventional mode. More importantly, it appears these drivers fit my notion of why I feel manual transmissions are safer than automatics - it is more difficult to tune out when driving a manual.
Did I mention I cannot stand my rental MPV? It's large and unwieldy and not nearly as economical as my '5. I also don't like Enterprise, they treat their customers like children.
It's then probably a good bet that the reasons behind the fires would explain why no European or Japanese versions would need to be recalled since almost all of their '5's sold are equipped with manual transmissions (at least in Europe anyway).
I wholeheartedly agree with a recent poster who admonished drivers that if they wanted the experience of a manual, they should have bought one.
I sure hope this information is dissememated to dealers quickly.
On the other hand, Mazda 5's are flame throwers (50's era). Though I doubt Mazda will market it as such.
I wish you could exercise a little caution in how you judge people. Why are we so quick at criticizing drivers when the major culprit here is none other than Mazda for failing to implement what seems to me standard safety measures to prevent a FIRE when it's vehicles are driven improperly? If Mazda had done it's job right, only these three people would have been inconvenienced not all of us which is the major gripe here.
If you have driven the AT which I have and used the shiftronic you will understand that the errors by these people were not as idiotic as some of the posters here would like to think. I myself have experienced it once and believe me if you had left the gear in the shiftronic mode in 2nd gear you will hardly notice because the engine is so quiet. I have also driven for more than 30 years, 25 years of these on stick shifts, never had an accident in my life, not even dents. Does that make me one of those ignorant and stupid drivers too?
What I'm saying here is Mazda has already owned up to this problem. The fact that they implemented the fixes is an admission that they screwed up. Let's stop slagging the "guinea pigs". People make mistakes.
The new label will read: PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!
The owners' manual explains the proper function of the gearshift and the gauges and that should be adequate. For these few, it wasn't. Mazda, rather than admitting a design flaw, is apparently having to take steps to retrain drivers and protect them from themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if this leads to a new testing procedure for all new cars and increased prices for consumers.
Of course dealers need to be held accountable, and they are when franchise reviews occur, but we have another option rather than giving up on a good product. We can go to another dealer for our next purchase or service, or we can tell the dealer what happened and give them a chance to make amends. Holding the company accountable means you will have to go to another vehicle from another manufacturer and accept second best.
If you've read my previous posts it was clear that I was referring to the FIRE not the heat buildup per se. A heat buildup leading to a FIRE is not acceptable. From where I stand this is a major flaw.
"Mazda, rather than admitting a design flaw, is apparently having to take steps to retrain drivers and protect them from themselves"
You think Mazda would order such a major recall for something that they think is not their fault? Spend so much money and risk their reputation because of somebody else's fault? And after going through a financial crises that almost broke them? Last time I heard, a recall is an acknowledgement by the auto company of a defect/s in their vehicle and their express willingness to fix it/them.
"I wouldn't be surprised if this leads to a new testing procedure for all new cars and increased prices for consumers."
I think you're assuming too much here. How do you know that other car companies aren't already doing this and haven't factored all this in their costs?
I hope Mazda recovers nicely from this. I've always liked their cars, and the 5 seems like a trendsetter. Why can't GM produce something so clever(belongs to another thread)?
So much for the theory of no recall in Europe or in this case Canada because of manual transmissions.
Will be interested if people do get other perks like a roof rack for their troubles.
I think it is a good thing that Mazda is being honest, up front and acting quickly. An inconvenience for us...certainly! But better than the other alternatives, I would say.
The salesman GAVE us a new MPV while we wait for the recall fix to be in.. that's NO CAR PAYMENT... NO DEPRECIATION.... NO WEAR AND TEAR... I just hope Mazda fixes this problem so I can get the Mazda5... I know they would probably give us the MPV for the darn near the same price if Mazda pulls the car... but I'd rather the 5, even though it's less vehicle...
Maybe people who are complaining shoulda done a better job dealing...
position after a manual shift.
By the way, a new Mazda memo to dealers as of 9/27 states that the fix will be available to dealers at the end of October. I think I'll push to have the dealer release my car so that I can garage it until it is time for the fix to take place and meanwhile I can use the rental. I don't like the idea of having the car subjected to the elements for another month without ever being able to turn over the engine, even if I can't actually take it on the road. My dealer is contacting Mazda about this possibility.
So much for the theory of no recall in Europe or in this case Canada because of manual transmissions."
You obviously have not been paying close attention. The recall is for ALL North American Mazda5's regardless of transmission type. That is why I received a recall notice, eventhough like you, I have a MT. Also, all Mazda5's sold in North America are virtually the same (trim names are different and for some strange reason A/C is an option in Canada). I don't know what the Canadian breakdown is for manual vs. automatic, but I am quite positive it is much closer to the USA's 20:80 (appx) than Europe's 80:20 so my theory is not debunked.
"but at the ignorant drivers who don't know the difference between manual shift mode and conventional mode"
isda65 said:
I wish you could exercise a little caution in how you judge people. Why are we so quick at criticizing drivers when the major culprit here is none other than Mazda for failing to implement what seems to me standard safety measures to prevent a FIRE when it's vehicles are driven improperly? If Mazda had done it's job right, only these three people would have been inconvenienced not all of us which is the major gripe here.
isda65 later said:
I have also driven for more than 30 years, 25 years of these on stick shifts, never had an accident in my life, not even dents. Does that make me one of those ignorant and stupid drivers too?
You obviously have misread my statement and taken it out of context. First, I never used the word stupid. I used the word ignorant. One definition of ignorant is not knowing the fundamentals of a given art or branch of knowledge. For instance, I am ignorant when it comes to reading Russian, does that make me stupid? Of course not.
I am sorry I offended you, you took the statement a little too close to the heart. However, now that I have explained myself, I will not back down from my earlier statement that those drivers were likely ignorant to the workings of manual shift mode most likely because all they have ever known about driving is put the car in "D" and go.
Like you, I too accidentally left my rental Mazda6 in 2nd or third gear for a minute or two until I heard the high revs. I quickly corrected my mistake. I am sure when you realized your vehicle was left in 2nd gear you quickly corrected your mistake too - mainly because you're an experienced driver, and you are also a driver who knows how to operate a manual transmission, so your ear is atuned to a high revving engine and you also know how to read a tachometer. I seriously doubt you drove in 2nd for an indefinite amount of time. I wouldn't be at surprised if the guilty parties were ALWAYS driving in 2nd gear, exacerbating the problem.
Keep in mind, many drivers who have no idea (read ignorant) how to operate a stick shift also have no clue (again, read ignorant) whatsoever about tachometers, let alone having an ear that knows when it is the proper time to change gears.
As you admonished me, I wish you too would exercise a bit of caution and not jump to misinformed conclusions before replying to posts.
Now, here's an example (from a supposedly more prestigious European brand, recently acquired by GM) of how not to handle a recall. Take note of why the recall is being carried out (i.e., was it the manufacturer's decision or were they ordered to do it?) and then note how quickly they're planning to resolve the issue for their customers. Now, whose customer would you rather be?
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh20395_2005-09-29_08- - - -01-05_l29367510_newsml
Sure, Mazda could just let you guys keep driving your 5's and keep its fingers crossed while they get the solution designed and out to dealers. After all, an exhaust fire can't be any more dangerous than having the entire car shut down -- power brakes, steering and all -- at highway speeds, right? There might be a few examples of fires, but you'd probably see the smoke and pull over before the entire car was engulfed in flames. Take Saab's approach, Mazda. You don't want to inconvenience anyone. :surprise:
Meade
BTW, never had problems with slip...
NOW, How can we get all this forum members' energy together and focus on putting pressure on Mazda to design/distribute the part(s) ASAP so we can get our cars back? Through the dealers? Through the CEO? A march or a rally?
3 weeks to design, distribute and install whatever part it is to 2700+ cars sounds a little bit aggressive (mine has been in the shop for a week already). In addition, I would push to install these parts on already owned cars first rather than the ones the dealer wants to close a sell on :surprise:
Does anyone have connections in Mazda to at least know more detailed time lines? My loaner is an MPV but nothing to do with the 5!
The fact of the matter is we don't know what led to those incidences. All we have to go by is Mazda's statement. And why shouldn't I consider that Mazda could not have been totally truthful when I know that Mazda had problems accepting blame for defects in their cars in the past? This applies to other car companies as well for that matter.
"those drivers were likely ignorant to the workings of manual shift mode most likely because all they have ever known about driving is put the car in "D" and go. "
Again, you're making an ill-informed conclusion here.
many drivers who have no idea (read ignorant) how to operate a stick shift also have no clue (again, read ignorant) whatsoever about tachometers
Another one here.
Just to set the record straight, I am not taking this discussion in a personal way. And I have not taken any offense at all. I also love my 5 and have admired Mazda for how they designed their cars. I'm just taking the position of a devil's advocate to give others a chance to see another point of view.
I wish you too would exercise a bit of caution and not jump to misinformed conclusions before replying to posts
So sorry to say that I have been cautious since the beginning and I have not jumped to misinformed conclusions. My conclusions were all based on your initial post. It was there for everybody to see. Yours on the other hand were all based on pure speculation.
I'm a recall coordinator. My job is
to apply the formula. It's a story
problem.
JACK (V.O.)
A new car built by my company leaves
somewhere traveling at 60 miles per
hour. The rear differential locks up.
JACK (V.O.)
The car crashes and burns with
everyone trapped inside. Now: do we
initiate a recall?
JACK
Take the number of vehicles in the
field, (A), and multiply it by the
probable rate of failure, (B), then
multiply the result by the average
out-of-court settlement, (C). A
times B times C equals X...
JACK
If X is less than the cost of a
recall, we don't do one.
BUSINESS WOMAN
Are there a lot of these kinds of
accidents?
JACK
Oh, you wouldn't believe.
BUSINESS WOMAN
... Which... car company do you work
for?
JACK
A major one.
Harsh, I know, but I'd like to reach my 36th birthday on Saturday.
1) Extended Warranty
2) Free maintenance up to 100K miles
I don't know about the accessories, they really have nothing to do with the car's performance, but maintenance and warranty should certainly be discussed.
We all should start calling Mazda USA in droves, see what happens. Also, anyone a lawyer? Can someone draft a letter on everyone's behalf for all to sign?
Any thoughts?
I can think of a few off the top of my head..Acura/Honda extended the warranty of the bad tranny's they put in some models but the ext warranty only covered the items in question...Ford bought back some cars under the 3.8litre head gasket problem and did issue extended warranties for the specific problem....cadillac essentially did nothing for the people with the 8-6-4 engine fiasco..GM replaced diesel engines reluctanly when they all went bad but did nothing else....Toyota isnt exactly bending over backwards for the engine sludge problems..I don't recall any carmaker asking dealers to take new vehicles off the line to give to customers during a recall like mazda...(i realize y'all didnt get new MPV's but all of our MZ5 customer did..we wanted to do our best to help)
thanks and don't forget to enjoy yourself here,
Host
Keep in mind many autos can be inadvertently shifted into second gear at startup due to lack of good tactile feedback. The Durango I have as a loaner ends up going from neutral to second more times than neutral to drive. It is therefore reasonable to assume that a high percentage of drivers od many existing vehicle types accidentally drive for extended periods of time in 2nd gear. And is seems they do this without combusting. So I don't believe for a minute any of this 2nd gear stuff. It's pretty darn obvious when you are going 55 mph in second gear.
And if you were one of the people with a Mazda 5 that caught fire would you volunteer the information that the car was driven to a pulp in second gear, risking losing reimbursment for the damage? If the information was given to mazda then I doubt they would have recalled the cars or offered to tow them. They could have said "drive it in D".
Personally I don't care what the cause is. They are handling it appropriately and will fix it. But I wouldn't spend this much time pondering the merits of driving in D just yet. It doesn't ring true.
And I do expect a car to be able to run at near readline for extended periods of time without overheating the exhaust or burning thru to the cabin. I expect to get engine or tranny overheats lights or guage indications but not a melted tailpipe.
I would expect your average car to protest mightily and do bad things at all-day redline.
I realize this isn't really what you mean, that you mean short bursts, and I agree, but some people might go out and try redlining for hours at a time and I wouldn't recommend it.
HiFive :surprise:
I am not looking for power when I am hauling my 2 kids to school, not do I want to scale a wall in a 4x4 on the way to the supermarket.
Also, IMHO, luxury is overrated. Unfortunately, luxury seems to be equal to low fuel economy these days, and that in turns adds to financing terrorism by the saudis, but I am afraid that's a whole new topic. But anyway, thank you for clarifying a few things for me.