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It has been proven time and time again that the Tacoma is better than the ranger in resale, reliability, and offroading!
\\Will match a Ranger twin Ibeam off-roader against your Tacoma any time\\
hahahaha. Dude, you dont get it, do you?
Fourhweeler magazine had a test where the Tacoma TRD OUTDID a hummer, a Jeep TJ, and a land rover!!!
That poor 3 year old mag he cites must be thread bare. . .
Regrets? No not really. About the only thing I do not like is the range of the turn signal when you select it. If your in a slight turn, it will not stay selected and/or if you are turning with it on, and turn back the other way, it will go off. That is a pain in my opinion.
Sound system is excellent, engine has plenty of torque, good fuel economy, excellent handeling, great on and off-road driving, very reasonable price.
Speaking of price, the dealer where I got mine is advertising 2001 Ranger, 4X4, , Supercab, 4.0, for about $16.5K. Would not think that is a loaded vehicle and I assume that includes all rebates, but you cannot beat that price for what you get. Same place has the basic 2X4 short bed for about $9.8K.
That is money in your pocket and for high tax states like
Illinois
(spoog land, somewhere around 10%, right spoog? Sorry, I get use to my low 3.8%. . .)
you save on sales tax for the vehicle.
PF Flyer
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Fact is most Toyota 4x4's on the road have an open diff and their owners don't even know it! I surf other chat rooms and when I bring this point up they are usually shocked and revert back to "The Toyota is god" syndrome.
The whole point I am trying to make is how limited the locker is to the average joe truck owner. A locker can't help you tow or haul anything. It can only be engaged in 4low and at very low speeds. I offroad and only use 4low when needed and then engage back into 4high most of the time. Toyota has done one heck of a marketing job with this TRD package. I have to give them credit for that. You pay some cash for a locker and some Bilstein shocks and springs just to have that sticker! LOL!... And with your TRD locker your driving around with an OPEN rear axle..
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
Guys, we MUST get some new topic matter here. The reguritation of SOS is making me sleepy too.
spoog:
For God's sake, find SOMETHING new to say, PLEASE!
As for this whole TRD "sticker" thing, how is this any different than the "4x4 Off-road" decal on Rangers and F150's??
The issue I am referring to is the MAY 2001 Four Wheeler issue where the Tacoma TRD beats the Hummer, Land Rover and the Jeep. There is also a killer section about the arctic landcruiser expeditions. Great photos. I suggest you pick it up Cspouner.
I also refer to the 2001 pickup of the year at www.fourwheeler.com
The Tacoma wins that contest as well.
Quotes from magazines are interesting the first time, somewhat boring the second time, and after that, its just plain RUDE!
Enough already!
The biggest detriment to off-roading is the length and turning circle. Makes for many "back-and-forths" at hairpin turns. The highway ride was great and the seats were VERY comfortable (sport seats).
Ours was a V6, not a 4 cyl. If you want to 4-wheel in the rockies, you WILL need the V6. The 4-banger just doesn't have the grunt needed at altitude.
BTW, I'm at 59,295 miles and I just completely detailed her. One look and you'd never guess there's close to 60K miles.
Anyway, I'm glad to see that we can agree on something.
All I have to say is cold hard facts, like Ford Ranger is the BEST SELLING COMPACT PICKUP for the last 13 years. I'm still driving a '93 2.3l, with 180k miles on it, and it's still running smooth, getting 20 city/26 highway miles. The Valve cover hasn't ever had a need to come off. All accessories are pulling great for cold original R-12 a/c, the original alternator still powers a 600 watt stereo, power steering is a bit noisy but still tight. Only the transmission had to be replaced, but at 130k miles, that's pretty acceptable. Raced on South Padre Island, beats up jeep wranglers for a living, taken offroad in Arkansas buffalo river area more times than I can count, hooked up my tow chain to help out many imports stuck on steep grades roads there too. Never been stuck, never been broke down, no problem sensors, only see the check engine light briefly when the the dash lights test out during start.
It's all about how you care for your car/truck. Every scheduled maintenance was performed. Change and flush your fluids on schedule!!! Take advantage of Duralube and zMax! Most people have no idea how to maintain a vehicle. I won't argue packages and options, but will say Ford offers better value for the money in my opinion. I wouldn't mind owning a toyota, but I think I would have spent more money for the same truck in different clothing.
Now I'm looking to upgrade to a 01 or 02 Ranger Edge Plus! 4.0l, manual, etc. Just can't find a 4x2 LSD regular cab 4.0l manual in stock! All this for 16,600 MSRP. Check out the MSRP on equivalent Tacoma. But who pays MSRP? HAH.
I would agree with Vince8 and indacurl2k on the TuRD locker. My wife and I want the 4X4 Tacoma Xtracab but have no need for a $1500 package that includes:
1. Billstein shocks (sp?) - I found them listed at $120 a pair (approx. $240 f & r)
2. Aluminum wheels - You have to upgrade the wheels anyway if you want the SR5 package so I see little benefit in getting the TRD because of the wheels. I can save the xtra $700 and just get the wheels or get the Styled Steel wheels for ~$500 and upgrade to aftermarket alums (hell, you get the same tires no matter what tire package you upgrade to)
3. A sticker - I don't want TRD on the side of my truck. Everytime I see it, all I see is TuRD
4. A locker - It's only good for 4lo. Great in the sticks, a waste on the pavement or trails.
My 2 cents - If you want 4 Wheel Drive for snow, recreational camping or light trail use, skip the TRD and get the Styled Steel wheels with the SR5 LX package. If you're in the sticks get the TRD package and remove the sticker.
Now...here's the catch. Good luck finding a 4X4 SR5 LX Tacoma V6 XtraCab without TRD! Dealers are sensitive to supply Vs. demand and they will not order a bunch of trucks they think will be hard to get rid of or move. We went to a bunch of dealers last weekend and it was miles of smiles and TRD as far as the eye could see. If the dealer is going to sell me on TRD it will be the hardest sell he/she will ever make.
John
I know the Toyota crowd hates it when I post reared diff facts about the Tacoma, that is why they want this to stop. The less people who know the better, NOT! I post this all over the net at different chat rooms. As I have said, its surprising to find out just how little Tacoma owners really know about their trucks...
you didn't answer my question. what about the "4x4 Off-Road" decal on rangers and F-150's?? how is this different than the TRD sticker concept?
It's amazing how people can try and justify their own decisions by bashing others. I think it's funny how anti-TRD individuals think that by stating their opinions on the package that this will drop Toyota sales figures. (Nice try) Everyone knows that they are just envious of our Trucks and deep down wish they had one. So, keep up the entertainment I find it amusing.
Regards,
Loyal TRD Fan
It is stated over and over again that Ford guys are jealous, or envious of the Tacoma, but How come RANGER is the Best Selling Compact Truck (For Over 13 Straight Years)? Rangers WITHOUT-A-DOUBT outsell Tacomas, Sonomas, S10s, Dakotas, Frontiers, ETC, ETC. (Check the sales volumes if you don't believe me) These messages aren't going to affect any sales figures either way, but it could provide info to those sitting "on the fence". I don't think Tacoma's are bad trucks AT ALL, just know that my current and future ranger will be more truck at less cost.
You like the Toyota, so you can keep it. Enjoy, and have fun.
I like the Ford, so I will stay with it. And I (we) enjoy it, and have fun.
I know I spent less money, and enjoy the extra options.
Forget the bashing, and bruised feelings. Tell us all (Ford or toyota kin alike) why you think your brand is better!
Me thinks Ford's sticker is a little hoakie too. "Look everyone! I bought a 4X4! It says so on the side!"
Give me a break. If it were up to me, I would remove the emblems entirely from my cars. Over time, all they do is date it.
John
What I'm talking is Value. Take equivalent trucks Ford and Toyota(equivalent in options).
I took extended cabs, v6, manual, a/c, tach, fog lights, 4wheel ABS, pwr locks, windows, securikey plus. This is all standard in the Edge package ford offers, but all options for tacoma. I might of missed one or two, but Ford still has more cubic inches, a CD player, tow and tie down hooks, factory tint, plus much more. All for $1350 less MSRP, and probably bettor off invoice (and order invoice unless you like blowing cash)
Not only does ford offer more configurations to fit individual need, I can't find a model that is the same price or more than the toyota. Same truck, will last the same if you care for it (my 93 has 180k miles and still gets 20/26 mpg,(read my previous post for more info on that)) And it has outperformed off road and on road more than any other equivalent truck. My tow strap has only been used on helping imports out (not neccessary all tacoma, but I know there were a few in that group). Maybe I know how to drive, maybe I know how to care for a car/truck, or maybe Ford is doing it right! (for the past 14 years)
Deloreans were supposed to be the best car, with good reliability and performance. But they cost too much, and didn't sell. Sales volumes indicate consumer demand more than any consumer opinions out there. Period.
"Image" is in the eye of the beholder too eh? You can swear that a Gremlin is the best looking car (to you), and you wouldn't be wrong.
Also why would people be buying so many corvettes when the Porsche boxter is the same price? Porsches have one of the highest amount of customer satisfaction because they have fewer problems than corevettes. But Why corvettes outsell? Because people love Vettes and what they represent, and they are still reliable cars, and for the same or less cost they are more popular. Besides service and parts are cheaper because they are domestic. My point is people buy what they want, because of the car/truck appeals to them the most, gives them the more bang for the buck. *** AND and comparison between two different "bangs" from two types of cars/trucks are like comparing apples to kiwi (or oranges). They both are sweet fruit, but one is much more obtainable. You can go to any parts store and get parts for a LT1, but try finding performance or even replacement parts for a prorsche(other than dealer). And the list goes on!
When I get my new 4.0l ranger in the next year, I'll blow the doors off any tacoma out there, on or off road. And I'll pay less than the tacoma I leave in the dust, and be Laughing all the way.
The ranger offers a lot of vehicle for the money. It also has features and packages that are geared toward the mass truck buying market.
As far as your "image" analogy, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. are you saying that a tacoma has a porsche-like "image?"
This thread is setup to compare a US domestic compact pickup to an import compact pickup. I think we are talking about two different types of apples.
You did a good job of comparing two similar trucks, option for option, and you are right that the Ford is less expensive and probably very close in reliablity to the Toyota.
But the fact is that alot of how people view the integrity and the reliablity of their car is based on current experience and past history. Now you can't tell me that over the past 20 years Ford has been knocking down the doors with reliablity when compared to imports... I would say they are #1 domestically but not compared to makers like Nissan, Toyota and Honda.
John
Value, is where its at and no way are you going to try to convince anyone a Toyota is actually less than a Ford product, any Toyota product at that! The Toyota crowd preaches resale, yet they don't admit how much MORE they paid for the vehicle at purchase. They preach reliability, yet they don't see the data around the net saying the gap isn't as wide as you may want it to be.
This other argument of "not being able to afford a Tacoma". Ever thought maybe we didn't fall for the "image" garbage, took the saved cash and spent it on other better things? To make a statement like that is awfully shallow. I guess us poor folks will continue to buy Rangers...
I have been called a TRD basher for bringing facts about its diff, and have people really think about just how much use they are going to get out of this option. I went down an priced these out again for a 2001 model for for kicks at a local Toyota dealer. For a V6 TRD supercab they want $25,762!! I want to hear more of those stories from Toyota owners who bought these for 21K... Yeah right....
As a side note, I'm not really sure that you could upgrade a non-TRD tacoma to a "TRD package" for much less than $1300 in the aftermarket. (don't forget that in addition to the shocks, springs, and locker there's also upgraded wheels and tires, which are certainly not cheap)
Yep Great Dane, Ford, as all domestic cars, seem to have a bad rap for long term reliablity. I attribute some of that to lazy americans (on strike, (chevy)) Or maybe they were just built on Wednesday/Hump Day. But that paradigm is slowly changing, especially with the new engines and manufacturing methods being used today. We helped out the japanese, and now they produce long lasting great cars, but the Big three are coming around. I think they were still trying to make old platforms work. (I.E. Pushrod 2valve motors, low compression, extra cubes vs 4 valve high compression, aluminum products) But we're definately catching up, with modular motors, more cost effective manufacturing methods and materials. The details are still being ironed out in many cases, but with 100,000 2002 Explorers pre-ordered, I think the consumers are definately realizing where domestic (Ford) vehicles are today. Like my '00 GT mustang getting 22 MPG city with 5speed and pretty much flooring it. My girlfriend's Honda Accord 4cyl with ULEV (Ultra Low emissions Vehicle) is getting 20 MPG or less city, and she's a lead foot too. I don't think the extra gear I have is making up for the 4 extra cylinders(same number of valves, however!), but I am leaving her in the dust and using less fuel. But only time will tell who has the first break down!
Guess what, the answer is simple. The Tacoma is a much better truck. I wouldn't buy a Ranger if it were the last truck on Earth. Simply put, a Ranger is what you buy when you can't afford a YOTA! End of story. Any questions?
Which one is better? Only you know for sure but, here's the catch...what you know only works for you. Occasionaly you'll meet people who had the same thought. You'll know those people because they'll be drinvin' the same truck.
Just a little front porch philosophy.
John
Now you don't have to get TRD (i.e., you could get ST styled steel ~$500 or CW Chrome wheels ~$600 which come with the same tires as TRD) but SR5 without TRD...They're hard to find. I don't think dealers are willing to risk building up an inventory of potentially less-than-desireable package combinations.
Personally I don't need or want TRD but I could say the same about the Edge package. Why didn't Ford call theirs SVT 4X4 anyway??? The Edge? Sounds a bit hinky.
John
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." -Albert Einstein
Different individuals have different wants and needs (other than just cost) satisfied by the truck the choose, so I think it is possible for there to be cases where the Ranger is a better match for folks..
According to the sales figures, it must be alot of folks..
So either way I looked at it I was going to pay the same price for either truck, and where did you think I thought the better value was? Not that I thought the Ford was bad, it's just that they wouldn't compete with the Toyota dealership. Same way with Nissan, they were the whole reason I didn't buy another Nissan.
There sticker price was $23,111 for an ext. cab 5sp, supercharged 4x4 and they wouldn't take any less than $21,500 with trade. After I picked myself up from laughing I went across the street and priced the Tacoma and the Ranger. So, from my stand point the Ford wasn't going to save me any money! Maybe the Ford dealership saw me and saw sucker, evidently Nissan did from their quote. But I, again I state I thought Toyota was more than comperable than Ford or Nissan..
As a person looking for the vehicle you described you've peaked my interest but I must say that I doubt the $20k number. If you're including the trade-in with your price that wouldn't be a fair number.
That is close to the price Toyota wanted 2 years ago for a non-TRD 4X4, the time frame I was looking.
By the spedo, my 99 just went over 40K, maybe 41K actual(I never adjusted the spedo after getting the 31 inch tires so at 50mph I am really doing 54mph. That means my odometer counts slower). Looked at the 40K service requirements, changed the oil and was on my way. . .Still using Mobil 1 5W30 and am well satisfied with the way the truck runs.
Eagle, the price is the huge difference! Along with just how much use you are going to get out of the TRD setup. With the Ranger offroad setup you get a limited slip diff which is a much better match for the everyday truck user. I would bet most TRD owners would not take their trucks into places where the locker would get its full use that it was designed for. 21K for a V6 4x4 TRD loaded, noway, nohow. You got a bridge to sell?
Evidently Ford didn't think they could move it and Toyota did. I am not some Taco freak demanding that you bow to its structure, I was a Nissan freak who got a good price on a nice truck.
I would be glad to give the dealer's name and # if anyone is interested in checking out Tacos.
What was the deciding factor? service and price.. Given that if you own any vehicle long enough you will probably have to have it serviced. If you normally go to a dealership for work, then dealership quality (both in service and workmanship) should be a factor.
Sounds like he chose well..
It's my experience that most Toyota dealership choose not to go as low on their prices (regardless of what their radio ads say). Also that friends of mine (who've had thier toyota's in for service) would not recommend the dealerships.. (They like their Toyota, just not the service they received).
I actually drive 20 miles past the closest ford dealership to a different one to get my ford vehicle serviced, (so far for recall work and one warranty claim on my Windstar). My SuperDuty has had no problems (only 26k miles).
We were discussing traction and 4X4, and he said we don't need it in Massachusetts, they plow the roads. Needless to say, this friend hasn't been to Vermont skiing with me!!!
Anyhow, he said after thinking about it, he could always weld the rear axles together, and just buy cheapo tires every year for good traction. Who cares if they scrub? I thought this was some unique thinking, but really it makes sense in a strange sort of way.
(I stay away from mud and boulders, though!)
Also, I'd like to see you explain to me how I could build a standard Tacoma into a TRD using aftermarket parts for less than $1300. (don't forget about the labor charges either)
"I would bet most TRD owners would not take their trucks into places where the locker would get its full use that it was designed for."
-what's your point? like most Ranger owners do????
If your needs in a truck don't involve super extreme off-roading, then these are options that go unused.
Its like claiming because brand A truck has a top speed of 120 mph, and brand B has a top speed 150mph, that brand B is better.. Not necessarily so as most folks will never see more than 75mph in their daily driving..
So each individual should compare the trucks based on options that are of use to them.