TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

cpousnr · June 2001

A little muddin goes a long way. Did someone not post once that if you do this a Ranger will hydrolock?
http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/muddin1.jpg

West on Pass with the snow field that blocked the way.

http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/weston1.jpg
try this one instead, cant edit: http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/weston1.jpg

2k1trd · June 2001

Also you have to stay in the net to stop the shots!

cpousnr · June 2001

Yeah Roy is a hotdog like that sometimes.
Would have loved to have been the fly inside his mask when he saw he was in trouble.

allknowing · June 2001

I'm sure everyone has seen the Dateline, full size pickup offset crash test story by now. http://www.msnbc.com/news/580811.asp?cp1=1#BODY

I find it interesting that most of the compact pickups held up better than the full size pickups, at least from the info I got a few months ago on a different page rating small pickups. Ford F-series had top crash test ratings until now. Now in this test it did horrible. It makes me wonder about all of the crash test data and if there are additional factors not commonly released.

midnight_stang · June 2001

I think that crash test simuluates greatly the head on impact at 40 mph with a concrete or steel wall. Most cars and trucks that would be on the receiving end of such a crash would absorb a lot of the damage shown, in my opinion. I once saw a dodge ram take out a steel signal light post, two telephone poles(one of which cracked in three places from the force of the crash, on on the ground, on in the middle, and one near the top). The driver walked away, even though the engine bay was smashed in 3 feet. Nothing near the amount of damage shown here, however.

Here's NHTSA's ratings...

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/2001Pkup.html

issisteelman · June 2001

I would agree. Your weekend excursion was much rougher than mine. Kudos to your Ranger. I'm impressed. Sounds like a lot of fun. Take care..........Steelman.

eagle63 · June 2001

I saw the dateline segment last night too. Pretty startling, especially because the Ram and the F150 are my 2 favorite full size trucks.
I do question the data, however, because there are thousands and thousands of rams and F150's on the road. if these rigs were truly that dangerous, I think there would be some real-world death statistics to complement the crash test data.
As some of you may remember, former Timberwolf Malik Sealy died in a car accident last year here in minneapolis. he was driving his range rover and was hit head on by a drunk driver in a dodge ram who was going the wrong way down the freeway. I remember seeing the pictures of the 2 vehicles after the accident. there was literally nothing left of Malik's range rover, but the Ram (although certainly banged up) was in far better shape. -the driver of the ram lived, BTW.

I think crash test data is useful to a point, but is no substitute for real-world statistics.

1busman · June 2001

Personally, I would believe the data you saw on tv. Go by a wrecking yard sometime, I think you'll see that most, if not all accidents aren't perfectly head on. For years the highway institute has been saying that cars of the same size and weight as truck are safer because they have been built to tougher standards.

smc13 · June 2001

I looked through the crash test results and there is definately something fishy with them. looking through the results of the crash the Tundra driver probably receives a broken leg while the Silverado driver walks away with out a scratch. Which is better for the driver? Admittidly, Both the Ram driver and the F150 driver would be dead from the wreck.

The test itself doesn't seem to apply to real world situations. A person isn't likely to get into an accident by running into a wall. An accident will most likely occur when two vehicles collide. In such an accident anyone of the full size pickups would have an advantage with most other vehicles on the road. As someone posted in the crash test discussion, a sierra destroys a corolla while only taking little damage.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/44039/page014.html

Oh, here is a link to the crash test results

http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2001/pr060401.htm

and since this is supposed to be a discussion between the Ranger and the Tacoma here is a link to the crash worthiness of small trucks.

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smpickup.htm

both the Ranger and Tacoma get high marks but the Tacoma driver has a broken left leg while the Ranger driver walks away without an injury. Even though I love my Tacoma, it seems to me that the Ranger does better in this crash test.

Steve Cohen

frey4 · June 2001

i have a 2000 Ranger 4x4, 4.0, 5 speed auto. it has only 7000 miles on it and it shakes pretty bad at highway speeds. i have concluded it is the trash Firestones. also, the steering seems vague; the steering whell does not seem to "self-center" like on my Nissan truck. it seems to wander a lot, and pull slightly to the right. i assume this is also tires, as the alignment has been cecked and is OK. fortunately, Ford is allowing me to turn these tires in, crediting me for new tires (on their list of recommended).
QUESTION: i have decided on the Michelin LTX M/S in the stock size, 235/75/15. is this a good move ? is this tire too small for this truck ? [i cannot get larger sizes and STILL ge rembursed by Ford. i must stay with STOCK sizes due to the recall] do any of you own this tire on a Ranger or other truck or SUV ? i am trying to get a smooth ride, and do mostly highway driving, and no offroading. i do pull a small bass boat (about 1200 lbs). thanks.

sasquatch_2000 · June 2001

get larger ones, and pay the difference?

frey4 · June 2001

in order to get reimbursed. i am not sure why everyone is so hyped on getting bigger sizes, anyways. bigger tires use more gas, vibrate more and cost more. and, in many cases, look goofy. i am looking for someone who uses their truck functionally on the highway {and is not into "monster tires" and looking like a bigtime wrestler}, that uses Michelin tires. do you use Michelin LTX M/S or A/T ??

eagle63 · June 2001

Yes you can get bigger tires. I did on my explorer. Ford is still reimbursing me $110 per tire.
By all means if you don't want bigger tires than don't get them. but... I really think 31" tires look great on either a ranger or explorer, and in most cases they will fit the stock wheels and won't require a lift. (31" tires also won't give you that "monster truck" look)

sasquatch_2000 · June 2001

...give you better clearance off road.

Sorry, I guess I mistakenly assumed you had a 4X4.

spoog · June 2001

"The Tundra lives up to Toyota’s “built better from the ground up” slogan. It gets the Institute’s best rating — good."

http://www.msnbc.com/news/580811.asp?cp1=1#BODY

spoog · June 2001

ere is a COMPLETE list of the TSB's, Defect Investigations, and Safety Recalls for the Toyota pickup, Chevy s-10, Ford Ranger, and Dodge Dakota from the years 1989-2000. Enjoy.

Defect Investigations 1989-2000

Ford Ranger - 20

Dodge Dakota- 14

Chevy S10 - 51

Toyota Tacoma - 2

Safety Recalls 1989-2000

Ford Ranger- 32

Dodge Dakota - 28

Chevyy S10 - 47

Toyota Tacoma - 6

Technical Service Bulletins 1989-2000

Ford Ranger -2,279(yes, 2,279)

Dodge Dakota- 940

Chevy S10 -448

Toyota Tacoma - 150

-------

So there you have it. All data is factual, and very telling. This is NOT "subjective".

A trucks reliability and build quality is NOT "subjective".

Not all trucks are built the same, as you can plainly see.

Here is the hard link:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

spoog · June 2001

" We choose the Tacoma unanimoulsy over the Ford Ranger

-fourwheeler mag, 1998

" The Tacoma opened a can of whoop [non-permissible content removed] on the other trucks, and could go places they simply couldn't"

-fourwheeler, 2001 pickup of the year

" The tacoma trd beat a hummer, range rover, and a wrangler to become the ultimate 4x4"

-fourwheeler, May 2001 issue, Ultimate 4x4 Comparison

spoog · June 2001

"the ranger rattled like a rattlesnake offroad"

-edmunds.com

" if looking to purchase a used ranger, take one for a very,very long test drive"

-edmunds.com

" Were not fond of the highway only suspension on the ranger. It whoopty-doo-ed on all the bumps"

-fourhweeler.com 98 pickup of the year

midnight_stang · June 2001

Many have questioned and retorted to your old repeated posts. You haven't even replied or responded. No only do they take up too much space, it's the same old crap.

Many Toyota owners here have earned my respect as smart and logical people. I respect their opinions. I respect your opinions, spoog, as much as I respect Jehova's witness and Hari Krishnas (spelling in question).

ebbgreatdane · June 2001

If you are going to change from the stock tire and/or wheel size you should be prepared to adjust your speedometer or deal with the fact that you will be going faster than your speedo shows.

If you visit the Tires post under the Maintenance section of Edmunds, you can calculate what tires and wheels you can upgrade to while keeping the outside diameter of your tire the same (any tire shop can do this for you too).

If you're getting bigger tires, while it's up on the racks you might as well have them adjust the speedo cable.

John

sasquatch_2000 · June 2001

What size of tires did the old WWII Willys Jeep have?

I would like to get some taller tires, but not necessarily as wide tires. For example, I'd like to see a 33" tire that is maybe 9.50 as opposed to 12.50 across. Is there such a thing?

What might be a decent compromise?

rmacias_ · June 2001

Sasquatch_2000:
BFGoodrich produces a 33X9.50 R15 All Terrain TA. I believe I saw them advertised for approximately $145.00 per tire.

cpousnr · June 2001

If you go offroad at all, get BF Goodrich AT KO's

All I will say is you will not be sorry getting them.

They are the best in the field for general off-roading.

Get 30X9.5X15 tires or 31X10.5X15. Do not get the smaller stock ones. Again, just trust me on this and look here:

http://members.aol.com/Cpousnr/myford1.jpg

cpousnr · June 2001

If you go from 235's to 31's the spedo is off by about 6%.

So If It says 60 I am really doing about 63.7mph.

frey4, I think you can get a credit up to the amount of the price of the size being replaced.

If that is not the case, even though you say you do not go off-road, you may some day.

Get the BFG's. Even if you have to get them in 235's, get the BFG's

cpousnr · June 2001

where is yours. . .?

You saw mine at 11,000 ft plus.

rickc5 · June 2001

Ford definitely established limits on how much they will re-imburse for new tires. It is based on which WHEEL size tire you need to buy. 15" wheels = $110. 16" wheels = $120. 17" wheels = $130. This may not cover the entire cost of replacement tires, but it sure comes close if you buy from Discount Tire. They had the best prices when I was looking.

frey4 · June 2001

yesterday i got 4 Michelin LTX M/S tires [235/75/15] abslutely free from a Michelin dealer [in Ohio]. Ford has authorized [as of last Friday june 1, 01] Michelin dealers to replace the Firestone Wilderness free of charge. i did a direct swap, and didn't pay a dime. the dealer cuts out the DOT code on the Firestones with a special cutting tool, and discards the tires. the Michelins are very smooth; a MAJOR improvement over the old tires. this truck is still very JITTERY with a lot of highway "aftervibration" or something, that feels like the axle/wheel assemblies bouncing around a lot. DOES ANYBODY THINK AFTERMARKET SHOCKS would help ? this is a 2000 Ranger with only 7200 miles on it. any suggestions on BETTER SHOCKS ? it is an annoying shudder through the floorboard. when you hit a tar strip, it seems to vibrate a while AFTER hitting the bump. maybe this is a typical 4x4 ?????? VERY jittery ride.

smgilles · June 2001

Another brand I have had a lot of luck with besides the BF's are Cooper Tires. www.coopertire.com they have a wide variety that will fit any need. I have had the Cooper STT, but are made for more off-roading, if you want more for highway but also dirt use try the Cooper Radial LT and for strictly highway but great on ice and water try the Cooper AST. Just some suggestions, these tires are not as high as BF's, but I have had just as good of luck. For a 15" tire in any of those will run you less than $100.00 mounted and balanced per tire. Well around here anyway. Good luck!

ebbgreatdane · June 2001

If you're doing 70, the cop will see 74 on his/her detector. They round up remember ;-)

John

lariat1 · June 2001

SOmething to try is lowering the air pressure in the tires. There should be max pressure rating on the tire that is if you are going to load the tire to the max weight possible. If you lower the pressure for highway cruising you will get a better ride and more even tire wear. then when you haul a heavy load bump up the pressure

cpousnr · June 2001

I DID hear that about Cooper tires, they are good too. They are not common here.

I like the BFG's for the 3 ply sidewall, very aggressive tread and side lugs, great for offroad when you air down.

In regard to the spedo, yeah I know, ask a Texas State Trooper on the Red River Valley road between Amarillo and Wichita Falls I met 6 months ago:
"Yall have a nice day sir and please keep the speed down. Yes they are nice oversixed tires but too bad, pay your $95 to the judge. . ."

Rick5c:
BFG 31X10.5X15's are $113 at Discount. They were $100 when I got mine.

cpousnr · June 2001

looking down Weston Pass from maybe 10,000 ft:

http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/weston2.jpg

English Valley with Indian Head mtn in back:

http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/EV1.jpg

Back down from the Wheeler Geological area looking over Creede Col from maybe 10,000 ft. Remember Creede is almost 9,000 ft:

http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/wheeler1.jpg

We ever gonna see your truck spoog?

Oh forgot this, Ranger coming out of an arroyo. It is worse than it looks, the arroyo is almost up a 40 deg angle for a short distance, sorry it is dark. Showing this as I promised to earlier:

http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/arroyo1.jpg

enjoy. . .

cpousnr · June 2001

Yeah I did not like my stock ones either. I changed to Rancho RS5000's a few thousand miles ago. Sometimes in the spring you can get them 3 for the price of 4. About 36 bucks each.

Well please with them, a firmer yet more stable ride.

Ranger shocks are too soft.

tacoma_trd · June 2001

i have been riding around in 4-Hi lately on my tacoma because of all the flooding from tropical storm allison here in southern louisiana, but i was wondering, when the hubs are locked you can still put the truck in 2wd, now whats the difference if you ride around in 2wd with the hubs locked or freed, is it bad for the truck if you keep it locked in 2wd?? I am just kind of confused on this issue, if someone could explain it to me a little better on how it works, i would appreciate it. Thanks.

lariat1 · June 2001

actually it is good to run around a little while with your hubs locked it lets the front end lube itself. The drawback is the accelerated wear on the front end.
When you lock your hubs you are engaging the front wheels to the axles so when you move the transfercase to 4 hi or 4 lo the wheels will get power. The hubs have nothing to do with the transfercase so yes you can put the truck in 2 wd with the hubs locked you will burn more gas though due to turning all the extra axles.
BTW you have hubs? them things went out with high button shoes,the last truck I owned that had hubs was a 92 toyota truck.

cpousnr · June 2001

Many Ranger owners, from the mid 90's, convert the autohubs to manual Warn hubs, cost maybe $125 or so. The reason is a better, stronger hub.

Some people just do not like autohubs.

You are correct by the way with your advise. Nothing wrong with running locked hubs, except wear and mpg.

lariat1 · June 2001

what year ranger do you have? I used to have a 94 ex cab that truck was awsome had the 4.0 and bigger tires 265 75 15' and the 5 speed, I used to run all over the olympic range in WA with it. One time I took it all the way through the range on a jeep trail that was a lot of fun there many 3 point turns on that trip. I had to get rid of the truck when I got back up here to AK I bought a boat that weighed more than the truck so it felt like I was pushing a rope.

cpousnr · June 2001

Ah, you know my first name. . .

It is a 99 XLT, 4.0, manual, 31in BFG tires, KKM filter system, Rancho RS5000 shocks and electrical hookups for a Ramsey REP 8000 fore and aft. Did that because if you depart the road, you more than likely need to be pulled back. Thinking about taking it to a 4X4 shop in Fort Collins to get a reciever hitch mount behind the bumper, hidden by the front plate. I really do not want a grille guard as I would not be able to fit the truck in the garage with that setup. The hitch mount I speak of would allow me to get rid of my front reciever hitch, that is where I mount the winch cradle now.

It perfoms very well on and off-road, gets excellent mpg (18-23) and the ride and off-road hendleing is much better after the RS5000 shocks went on.

I agree with you in regard to the boat. If it is much more than 3000 lb, regardless of of what the manual says, dont tow it. A friend of my son races stock cars. He asked a guy in a Ranger to tow the car/trailer a couple of miles as his Dodge died on him going the the track. The Ranger got going too fast, fishtailed and, well, you can guess the rest. Car/trailer flipped taking the Ranger with it.

I sometimes run around with a ton or so of water and other cargo, but do not recommend it as an every day thing to do.

cpousnr · June 2001

Oh the truck has a TecSport bed cover, Amarigard spray in liner and an EGR bug deflecter. Have a clinometer that I am trying to find a place for mounting, not too many straight level places on the dash. Thinking of mounting it above the mirror on the windshield.

Want to find an altimeter too, sometimes, like on this last trip, I forget my GPS.

cpousnr · June 2001

for both vehicles. Let me crank the data and present it here, feel it is fair to do since spoog has presented TSB data
(psst. Think he has figured out that TSB's do not all the time reflect a problem?)

Also the Tacoma problems board is detailing some interesting problems with the automatics and other component failures.

Anyway, back to crash tests.
Bottom line, much more likely to get injured in a Tacoma, some cases enough force for the injury to be fatal.

Hmmm spoog spellchecks as "spoof". Guess the spell checker works!

lariat1 · June 2001

I know you first name due to six years in the navy I was a Nuc machinist mate,if I would have stayed in I would also be a CPO I managed to make first class in my 6 years could have been a 10 year chief.
Anyway I remember the truck I traded in for the ranger it was a 92 Toy p/u good truck for a year then I started to go through timing chains every oil change I was glad to get rid of that truck.
Sounds like you ranger is loaded all I ever did to my truck is put a matching top on it from gem top looked great I still see that truck around town wish I could have kept it I miss driving down all the 4 wheeler trails.

cpousnr · June 2001

Just a few add on's is all. XLT's come standard with some things that are options on some vehicles.

I understand that the real hot Ranger is the mid 80's "Big Foot" model. They are actually a collectors item with a few web sites dedicated just to that vehicle. Saw one where they were selling the Big Foot side decals for $300. Somehow it was suppose to have a power rear window. Here is the site:

http://users.cyberzone.net/~mlathrop/

cpousnr · June 2001

when you go up in tire size. Need to know the diameter of the old tire vs new tire. Can get that from the BF Goodrich tire homepage.

http://www.therangerstation.com/Speedometer_Change_From_Tires.html

frey4 · June 2001

have a new 2000 4.0 ranger (4 door cab), 5 sp auto 4x4. it has a bizarre VIBRATION at all speeds. i had the tires replaced (15 " Michelin LTX M/S in place of the Firestones). it improved, but the vibration is still there, and very fatiguing. it is felt as a shudder in the floorboards, and also i can feel it pulsing through the pillars of the roof. if i hit a small bump or ripple, it seems as if the axle is "jittering" or vibrating up and down a long time before being dampened out. i don't have a problem with a firm ride. but this is a relentless, nonstop vibration; very LITTLE in the steering whel. almost all of it is through the floor and seat. is it possible that there is a driveshaft balance problem ? if it is a driveshaft, how do i go about confirming this ? CAN YOU RECOMMEND SOME BRAND OF SHOCK with more damping ? will 15 inch (235/75/15) tires do this more than 16 inch ?? this truck is almost undriveable right now for long distances. is this a common problem of Rangers, or of 4x4's (my first) ? it truly makes me sick: a new truck that SHAKES all the time. the dealer claims it is an "aftervibration" common to Rangers ! incredible ! is this true ???

1busman · June 2001

I don't believe your vibration problem is common to all rangers. Mine doesn't vibrate and I believe you would hear alot more people complaining. It seems that I've read about this kind of problem before, a wheel was out of round or bent, or possibly a shock was broken.

tacoma_trd · June 2001

I saw you say you had the Rancho RS5000 shocks on your ranger. I was thinking of putting the RS9000's on my Tacoma because you can adjust the stiffness, did you notice a big difference when you added them?

1busman · June 2001

If you still aren't getting any satisfaction from your local ford dealer I would go to another one. Look for one that's blue oval certified, also make them go for a ride with you and don't take "that's normal for ranger" because that's bs. If you still don't get any satisfaction take it to the next level, such as the district manager. It worked for me once on a problem a had with a dodge that I owned.

cpousnr · June 2001

vibration:

I would agree, wheel out of round or it could be a driveshaft out of balance or bad shocks.

Either way you are getting bull from your dealer. Go to the zone manager or another dealer or tell the dealer your taking it to a repair shop and expect compensation.

It is not the truck.

Also try this site and ask advise, maybe someone has seen the problem:

http://http/www.fordranger.com/offroad.html

If you want, I will log on and post your message direct on the sites and let you know the answers or I can go to Rough Rangers and ask the question.

cpousnr · June 2001

tacoma_trd:
As I understand it the RS 5000 shock is like an RS9000 set on 2 (of 5). I have been told by 3 4X4 places that the 5000 works best with basically stock small trucks. The 9000's were $70 vs 36 for the 5000's

I am WELL please with the 5000's. Ride is firmer and less side/side roll with the softer stock shock. Much less bad feel on washboard dirt roads and much better control in off-road situations.

You cannot go wrong with either. I heard many people recommend the Rancho's and they have lived up to the stories. You will be please with either.

Look for the shocks to be on sale, buy 3 get one free. Check Sears, they were in the long run the best price to include install. If you do em yourself, go on line to the 4X4 sites and check the prices and shipping.

I had a bad experience, twice, replacing rear shocks myself. Stripped a bolt on a Caravan, could not get it back out to thread chase and replace the bold, and broke the welded nut on a LEbaron. Each one cost me 75 bucks to fix, the cost of the install I was trying to save!

cpousnr · June 2001

When I said it is not the truck, I ment the problem you describe is NOT common to Ranger's.

Driveshafts have to be balanced, they solder a piece of metal on the shaft after the balance is checked. I had to replace a shaft on a 78 Datsun B210 once, and that is how they do that. Without a balance, the shuddering you describe would happen.

Another thing could be the yoke bad, but that would be rare.

How many miles on the truck?
Ever been offroad and hit hard?
Ever whacke a wheel into a curb?

Tell you what, I will copy your message and go post it on the Ranger station and see what people say. Your name will not be used, I will just say I am posting for someone else.

TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

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