TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

eagle63 · January 2001

c'mon guys, they're both bad choices. although, at least Gore is intelligent....

modvptnl · January 2001

....didn't he invent the internet???? Didn't his family make their fortune in tabacky and he wants to get rid of it now? Add more gun control? Kill off the EVIL internal combustion engine? Great choice!!!

BTW the popular vote was never actually finished. All the absentee votes(mostly Bush) weren't counted after a state won the electrol vote; Ca. and NY. come to mind.

I predict delete in....3....2......1

webbd · January 2001

Here are the curb weights of the trucks from the May 2000 Motortrend test:

Silverado: 4621 lbs
F-150: 4611 lbs
Dodge: 5124 lbs
Tundra: 4518 lbs

Except for the Dodge, the other three are within 103 lbs of one another.

How does the Lightning, a supercharged 2WD truck, being faster than these trucks have any relevance to their comparisons or to the fact that the Tundra carried its own weight against more powerful, but similarily-weighted competitors? Should I throw in the supercharged S-runner in order to redeem the Tundra for not being able to beat the Silverado in acceleration?

reddogs · January 2001

....so that explains why they wanted to do the recounts in the upstairs room in secret, so they could get the "chads" all "straighthened" out from the No-Vote ballots. But its OK, at the next election, Castro has promised to send observers to make sure it is fair and honest, after all he's never lost one so he knows how they should be run..........:0)

cpousnr · January 2001

scape2 · January 2001

from post #256! Can that be the "Toyota is god" bubble bursting! LOL.
I think this Tundra vs F150/Silverado/Ram should be taken into the proper room..
I have been gone for a while, started into coaching basketball with my daughter.
Did anyone read the MotorTrend Truck of the year article? They say the Quad Cab Tacoma is too heavy for the 3.4 V6 offered and slam the interior.. OOOOH what a feeling, Tinoda!

allknowing · January 2001

Nothing more satisfying than finding a Tacoma with a problem is there cp. Hope you enjoyed the links as much as the rest of us.

allknowing · January 2001

Listen to vince giggle!!!

cpousnr · January 2001

problems with any vehicle are no fun.

The posts/articles regarding Tacoma problems are few and far between.

Just play em when I got em...

You will notice I have not gone back to areas like TSB's that I have posted before.

At least, unlike spoog, I do get some new material now and then.

Wait, hold on...see smoke out the window...maybe it is that new Tacoma down the street in the driveway...

Nah, just a fireplace...

I think the Jan. Four Wheeler had a good rating on the 4 door Tacoma. . .
There allknowing, I said something nice.

allknowing · January 2001

You've made Vince happy if nothing else.

allknowing · January 2001

Yeh, Bush does have that look sometimes. Gore reminds be of Lurch from the Adams Family. Kind of that half dead look.

cpousnr · January 2001

Oh dear, 95 4Runner problems after 74,000 miles. . .
http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/t/_toyota/00000097.htm

Is the 4 Runner transfer case the same as the Tacoma?:
http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/t/_toyota/000000af.htm

I have seen complaints about Ford dealers, here is one for Toyota:
http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/t/_toyota/00000057.htm

cpousnr · January 2001

You might be suprised, if you can get the clown off the stage. . .

allknowing · January 2001

OK CP, to be fair you should also post the Ranger complaints from the "Complaint Station". Then again, I guess that would take up too many pages in this forum so I won't post them either.

cpousnr · January 2001

Well, most of the issues have been raised before regarding the Ranger.

What I posted are new for the Tacoma.

Ask yourself, ever seen those problems documented before?

Sooo, the silence of spoog is deafening.

spoog · January 2001

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/compmmy5.cfm

You want to compare complaints? I don't think so......

spoog · January 2001

" the Ranger rattled like a diamondback offroad"

" If buying a used ranger, test drive it for a very,very long time"

---Edmunds.com

pocahontas · January 2001

Some previous posts have been deleted because they are off topic and/or hostile in nature. It's okay to bash vehicles here, but not the participants.

At some point we have to just agree to disagree and respect the choice/s that each other has made. No amount of fact, figures, or personal jabs is going to convince someone that they made a 20+ thousand dollar mistake. Understand?

Also Spoog- I deleted some of your previous copy/pasted posts of problems and complaints, so people can view the information directly through the nhtsa link you provided. Thanks.

And now back to the subject of TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

Pocahontas
Host
Pickups Message Board

allknowing · January 2001

I was just being facetious cp. I have seen a few of your posts though as they were on the "Complaint Station" forum for a while.

2k1trd · January 2001

Well i worked on a 99 ranger 4x4 today and here is what i did.The drivers door window track bracket had broken off inside the door and i had to migweld it back together.The brakes were getting pretty thin also and the tires also were getting worn.The vehicle had 12938 miles on it.Oh and the 3.0 is way underpowered.

cpousnr · January 2001

I have never posted on the Complaint Station.

Brakes at 13? Hmm. I am at 36,700 on original brakes. . .Now I won't tell you that they should be changed soon, but they are not grinding yet. Have a set of NAPA brake pads and new rotors in the garage, ready to go.

Did I tell everyone that I will soon be posting some pics of my Ranger with the front end airborne? Gotta get about 5 pics taken and then developed.

Took the Ranger out with a Jeep over the weekend. Had to cut it short. The Jeep tried to jump out of a deep dip, went airborne about 10 inches and when it came down, broke the right engine mount. Impacted the oil filter. We got him a new filter, strapped the engine up with 4 of the ratchett straps and he drove home. But it really cut us short on time. Was going to finish the roll of film on that trip.

scape2 · January 2001

a mechanic you would know that brake wear is dependant on the user. How do you know how this person is driving? is he towing a heavy trailer without trailer brakes? I now have about 37K on my 98 Ranger with the ORIGINAL brakes. I notice how you fail to mention both the many posts about Tacoma problems CP has posted previously along with how the Tacoma problem forum is filling steadly...
2Ktrd, How often do you engage your locker?

amora · January 2001

Of course the clutch wore utra thin when I sold it. Hmmm using $1500 tranny to save pads
is not good.....Ranger was very gutless, but fun to drive, the ladies liked the Sapphire blue (purple) color. Could go 106 mph on straighaway, 116 mph on donwhill grade near Temecula, Ca border check point. Engine had 8 sparking plugs, hard to pull off with fingers.

allknowing · January 2001

"Your" was referring to the links you posted here, not complaints that you posted at the Complaint Station..

nxranger · January 2001

I put 100 shot of nitrous on my ranger, and it will rock and roll now, and also it is the best 4X4 I've ever had with the 4:10 rear end!!!

cpousnr · January 2001

Be careful with that stuff...can lower engine life.
Where did you get your system, Vanair?

Alknowing:
Ok no problem.

Awful quiet in spoog land. Hey spoog, you go buy you license from the cronny of your fine Gov.?
He, he...justice does come around, slow some time but it does come.

2k1trd · January 2001

Well i just installed the TRD charger on my 01 Tacoma TRD and man does it haul some serious butt!
Worth every penny!and no harm to your warranty.

cpousnr · January 2001

2000 Small Pickup,

Ranger:

http://www.edmunds.com/editorial/mostwanted/edmundscomsmostwanted2000/43047/page017.html

2001 Small Pickup,

Ranger:

http://www.edmunds.com/editorial/mostwanted/edmundscomsmostwantedfor2001/43048/page019.html

Oh dear, "Best off-road, 1999 was a Jeep, not the Tacoma?:
http://www.edmunds.com/editorial/mostwanted/edmundscomsmostwanted1999/43046/page004.html

nxranger · January 2001

I bought my system through nitrous express, it made a world of difference, it will beat a stock mustang gt, I think I am going to enter in the sand drags at the end of febuary.

allknowing · January 2001

I did enjoy your last link that said quote "the Toyota Tacoma is as reliable as a Swiss watch". I'd give up the best off-road prize for that any day.

cpousnr · January 2001

Hmmm. Remember that comes off the "1999 Most Wanted" site. 1999 is the operative phrase here.

Well, swiss watch or not, the Ford Ranger for 1999 rates basically even in one catagory, on a scale of 1-10, (7.0 vs 7.2) and well in excess in another catagory(7.8 vs 7.0) as compared to the Tacoma:

Ranger:

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/ford/ranger/2drxlt4wdextendedcabstepsidesb.html

Summary:

"Ford has had the best-selling small trucks in the country for years. We think it's because Rangers are all truck, with few pretensions toward any other identity yet capable of being loaded with gadgets like a luxury auto. Fun to drive, sharp looking, and well built, they deliver a solid compact-pickup experience. Even though we're not crazy about the new styling, we're certain that they will. . .

. . .continue to be a big hit."

Tacoma:

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/toyota/tacoma/basev64wdxtracab.html

ponm · January 2001

I own a 2000 tacoma v-6 4x4 and I have been running 89 octane in it. I was wondering if that is the right octane and if anyone else runs a higher or lower octane.

2k1trd · January 2001

I personally was running 89 also in my tacoma(s)but they are designed to run on 87 without any problems.I now have the TRD supercharger and use premium.

2k1trd · January 2001

I also was running 89 octane in my tacoma(s) but they are designed to run on 87 without problems.I now have the TRD supercharger and use premium.

2k1trd · January 2001

I just got the TRD option for the sticker!...lol
I'll never use the locker

allknowing · January 2001

Maybe I missed something but I don't see how 1999 has any bearing on anything. Ford makes a fine truck but it still has not approached the general quality level of the Tacoma. If you look at complaints at the NHTSA site for example, for model year 1999 Ford Ranger had 375 complaints while the Tacoma had 66. For model year 2000, the Ford Ranger had 158 complaints compared to 27 for the Tacoma. This is pretty unscientific but the ratio is approximately 6 to 1 both years, with no improvment for the Ranger. We can argue specific details all day but it seems clear that your chance of having problems is much greater with the Ranger compared to a Tacoma. Six times greater if you want to take the NHTSA data base as gospel which even I feel would probably be unfair.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/compmmy1.cfm

barlitz · January 2001

The ranger outsells the Tacoma 6 to 1 so that would make them equal as far as complaints

bess · January 2001

Ford has the same quality level as Toyota. I looked at the site you referenced above:

1. Many of the 'complaints' listed for the Ford Ranger were not indications of quality problems.
One example: AT THE END OF AUGUST, BEGINNING OF SEPTEMEBER, WE WERE SENT A
LETTER TELLING US THAT OUR VEHICLE WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE TIRE RECALLS.
AND NOW WITH MORE REPORTS

2. Many complaints were duplicates of each other.
Because of the 'duplicates', then the model that has more units sold will have a higher number of 'complaints' entered into that site.

So, say in theory, that the 2000 Ranger has 1 design flaw, and the Tacoma has 1 design flaw. The way data is entered on that site, the Ranger will have more complaints against it than the Tacoma.

Also, I saw several instances in the Ford Ranger part where the actual complaint OID ID was duplicated 3 times in a row (for the exact same complaint), but this came back as 3 complaints in the summary. (see oid 874134 repeated 3 times)

Folks concerned about Firestone tires attributed to several posts. (not because of accidents, but because they 'thought' they might be affected by the recall).

Basically, using that site as a basis for determining quality is no better than just asking folks here what they think about their trucks..

allknowing · January 2001

Actually I put an unfair spin on the figures (in the tradition of the Democrats and Unions) to my advantage because I didn't take into consideration total sales of each vehicle. If you take into consideration the approximately 1.4 to 1 ratio of Ranger sales compared to Tacoma, and using the admittedly unscientific NHTSA data as a good general sampling of problems, you have approximately four times the chance of having problems with a Ranger than a Tacoma. The figures would probably vary depending where the information is gathered, however, the Tacoma always seems to have the clear quality advantage.

allknowing · January 2001

The advantage may not be as great as I stated if you closely analyze the complaints (which is why I said it was unscientific), however, to say the Ranger has the same quality level as the Tacoma is simply ignoring facts. To make a statement like that, without any supporting data, is useless to you as well as anyone here. .

allknowing · January 2001

Your duplicate argument is ridiculous. If I have a problem with my truck that someone else has already had then you're saying that I really don't have a problem? I'm sorry but that type of logic holds no water in the real world.

bess · January 2001

Thats not at all what I said.

The issue of duplicates indicates that you must also take into account the number of units sold which you did not in your origional post.. Because you didn't factor this in, you were implying that and individual Ford truck will suffer more problems than an individual Toyota truck.

I also pointed out a 'bug' in the site where it counts the same 'complaint' (oid number) several times, so when you look at the bottom, it says the number of complaints was 'x' amount.

You corrected yourself as I was typing my origional note to take number of units sold into account. Although you didn't give a reference where you got the information that for every tacoma sold there are 1.5 Rangers sold.

By using the facts (the NHSTA site) you presented, I can make the statement that Ford and Toyota have similar quality numbers..

bess · January 2001

According to www.blueovalnews.com the Ford Ranger has sold 300k + units every year since 1987. In 1999 there were 348,358 rangers sold.

Looking for Toyota numbers, I found www.autointell.com reporting in 1998 the Toyota produced 158,317 Tacoma's.. (I guess I'll assume that every one produced was sold in 1998).

I'm not able to quickly find 1999 sales figures for Tacoma, but it appears the ratio of Ranger to Tacoma sales is at least 2.x to 1.. for 1999.

cpousnr · January 2001

allknowing:

1999 has a bearing because you cited the line about "...a swiss watch..." from the 1999 "most wanted".

I just wanted to show what Edmunds had to say about the 1999 Tacoma and Ranger. I cited the documented scale of 1-10 ratings, where Tacoma got a 7.2 to a Rangers 7.0 rating and where Tacoma got a 7.0 to a 7.8 for Ranger.

Bess:

Many have pointed out the duplicate TSB's and the insignificance of many of them.

Take a look at the TSB's and compare the number of injury occurances. Tacoma leads in that when you consider they only sell half as many units.

So we establish again that Tacoma, as compared to Ranger, is involved in more injury incidents that are reported to the government.

Here is a good one:

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSIVE RESTRAINT:AIR BAG:SIDE DOOR

Summary: VEHICLE WAS INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT, AND NEITHER DRIVER'S SIDE OR PASSENGER'S SIDE AIRBAGS DEPLOYED. VEHICLE HIT A TELEPHONE POLE WITH THE FRONT END PORTION

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSENGER RESTRAINTS:AIR BAG:FRONTAL

Summary: WAS TRAVELING ALONG THE ROAD AT 40MPH AND REARENDED ANOTHER VEHICLE THAT SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN GOING AT 5MPH. AT TIME OF IMPACT, NEITHER AIR BAG DEPLOYED. DRIVER

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: BRAKES:HYDRAULIC:ANTI-SKID SYSTEM

Summary: ABS BRAKES LOCKED REPEATEDLY. WHEN PROBLEM REPORTED TO THE DEALER, THEY FOUND NOTHING WRONG. THEN, WHILE TRYING TO COME TO A SUDDEN STOP, THE RIGHT BRAKES LOC

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: SUSPENSION:INDEPENDENT FRONT

Summary: NUT ON LEFT FRONT BALL JOINT BECAME DETACHED WHILE VEHICLE WAS IN MOTION, CAUSING LEFT FRONT AXLE ASSEMBLY TO STRIKE & DRAG ON ROAD SURFACE.

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:ACTIVE SEAT AND SHOULDER BELTS AND BELT ANCHOR

Summary: NO SUMMARY

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: FUEL:THROTTLE LINKAGES AND CONTROL:PEDAL

Summary: CONSUMER STOPPED AT STOP SIGN, TURNED RIGHT AND SHIFTED TO SECOND GEAR, AND THE ACCELERATOR GOT STUCK TO THE FLOOR. VEHICLE BROADSIDED ON THE LEFT SIDE OF ROAD

Number of Injuries: 2

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSENGER RESTRAINTS:AIR BAG:FRONTAL:DRIVER

Summary: CONSUMER WAS DRIVING APPROXIMATELY 30 MPH. UPON IMPACT, VEHICLE WAS STRUCK AT DRIVER REAR TIRE, VEHICLE FLIPPED IN AIR APPROXIMATELY 20 FEET AND LANDED ON THE

Number of Injuries: 2

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:ACTIVE RESTRAINTS:BELT BUCKLES

Summary: CONSUMER WAS DRIVING APPROXIMATELY 30 MPH. UPON IMPACT, VEHICLE WAS STRUCK AT DRIVER REAR TIRE, VEHICLE FLIPPED IN AIR APPROXIMATELY 20 FEET AND LANDED ON THE

************************************************

OH MY! THOSE ARE DUPLICATE POSTS...OH WELL THEY COUNT RIGHT ALLKNOWING?

************************************************

Number of Injuries: 2

Component: BRAKES:HYDRAULIC:SHOE:DISC BRAKE SYSTEM

Summary: I WAS TRAVELLING NORTH ON HWY 3 AT 55MPH WHEN I SAW A LADY, MRS KEEVY, TURNING LEFT ACROSS TRAFFIC. I WAS WEARING A SEAT BELT. I LOCKED UP MY BRAKES, BUT THE

Number of Injuries: 2

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSENGER RESTRAINTS:AIR BAG:FRONTAL

Summary: I WAS TRAVELLING NORTH ON HWY 3 AT 55MPH WHEN I SAW A LADY, MRS KEEVY, TURNING LEFT ACROSS TRAFFIC. I WAS WEARING A SEAT BELT. I LOCKED UP MY BRAKES, BUT THE

************************************************

OH MY! THOSE ARE DUPLICATE POSTS...OH WELL THEY COUNT RIGHT ALLKNOWING?

************************************************

Number of Injuries: 1

Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSIVE RESTRAINT:AIR BAG:SIDE DOOR:DRIVER

Summary: CONSUMER WAS INVOLVED IN A HEAD-ON COLLISION, IMPACT FRONTAL DRIVER'S SIDE AT 30 MPH, AND DRIVER'S SIDE AIR BAG DID NOT DEPLOY, CAUSING DRIVER TO FALL INTO

That is just from the 1999 Tacoma.

Also, there are a great deal of complaints about Firestone tires going bad. HMMM, spoog would make us think that is only a Ford problem.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/compmmy5.cfm

cpousnr · January 2001

BTW I do not disagree with you that in general Toyota produces a very high quality vehicle.

scape2 · January 2001

numbers being thrown around the room. Anyone who will actually take time to read these will see that many are duplicates, some are for certain Ranger build lots, some are for window stickers! The Toyota crowd wants people to see the whole number comparison, not to read each entry. If you look at Edumunds or MSN and compare reliability ratings the Tacoma is ahead but not by the leaps and bounds Toyota owners want people to believe. They are just mad they paid the extra thousands of dollars for this huge perceived quality advantage.

allknowing · January 2001

In 1999, according to CarPoint, Toyota sold close to 256,000 Tacoma's compared to approximately 350,000 Rangers sold. As I said, roughly a 1.4 to 1 ratio.
No Cp, if the post is from the same person and the same complaint it would be unfair to count it. I even said that in my posts, if you read closely enough, that I was being unscientific and that it would be unfair to take the data as gospel. Rather than playing ignorant and being sarcastic take the the time to read a little closer.
What I find interesting, not that I expected any different, is that it drives you Ranger owners crazy that the Ranger can't compete with the Tacoma in the quality area. Every major publication that I can think of rates the Tacoma higher in quality than the Ranger but you guys can't accept it.
Rather than argue in areas you still can't compete in, why not stay with the areas like Hp and torque, interior design, and crash test data which you can substantiate and thus compete in. In the area of quality Ford simply has a long way to go to compare with Totota. No matter what data is presented to you, you guys will twist and not accept. Face the facts. Every time I've had to take my wife's Ford to the dealer for repairs, we drive off in my Tacoma which has never needed any repairs. The Ford is a good truck but I'm certainly not alone in experiencing better reliability with the Toyota.

allknowing · January 2001

Ok bess I re-checked my figures and I mistakenly read the 1999 sales of the Tacoma as 256,000 rather than the actual number of 156,000. You're correct that that puts the ratio at about 2.2 to 1 rather than 1.4 to 1. I'm not going to read all 375 Ranger complaints at the site to see how many are duplicates though. Somehow I doubt that the numbers will drop enough to bring the data to the same ratio. If you want to spend the time reading the data attempting to prove that, more power to ya'. In the end I think you'll still see the Tacoma with less complaints per unit sold as every other complaint forum I've looked at. The Ford is no doubt the most reliable and best overall and domestic small truck but it still has not earned the most reliable small truck manufactured award.
All I can say is that I've successfully riled the Ranger guys up again in an area that Ford still needs to improve in.

allknowing · January 2001

Thanks vince for making another dumb anti-Toyota comment that means nothing to no one. I think, at least to most of us, it's vince....LOL.

allknowing · January 2001

By the way, I'm just trying to stir up a spirited conversation rather than being offensive. Please don't interpret my comments otherwise.

TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

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