By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
4th paragraph from the bottom says it all.
Again, please explain to me how this is the consumer's fault, and not Ford's.
Say all you want about TSBs and recalls. These are examples of Ford's recalls, which you conveniently dismiss as being trivial matters. Didn't I say you are downplaying the severity of some of the recalls and TSBs?
I guess our work Expeditions are either 97s or 98s, or both. Maybe they will be phased out soon.
Perhaps examples like this will help you believe why I have developed my opinion of Ford...
I say again:
If Ranger has such a quality problem, why are there so many here that stand behind it, or have no problems with their rides?
Less buck, more truck. You'll never convince me to go with the peace of mind of a Tacoma. I've had it for over 8 years, and 137,000 miles with my Ranger.
PS. I never said Ford never makes mistakes, or all their products are perfect. But that's the argument you are fighting.
http://www.auto.com/autonews/qford13.htm
This one says the actual problem. Not just statistics on the recalls. Appears to be too much anti-corrosion coating on the lugnut allowing the nut not to tighen totally against the wheel, but just to the stud.
"Owners of Ford F-150, F-250 pickup trucks and Expedition and Lincoln Navigator sport-utility vehicles will receive details about the vehicles' recall in the mail. They can get their vehicles' lug nuts replaced at a Ford dealership at no cost."
This article is dated May 13, 1998.
So what are you waiting for, if your Expedition is affected, TAKE IT INTO THE DEALERSHIP ALREADY.
pluto- if toyota's are so awesome and last forever, why did your company buy all expeditions? you'd think by the way you talk about toyota and their sprouting wings and such, that your company could have saved money over the long haul if they'd a went to the toyota. just wondering. also, what kind of a company truck would the expedition serve as? im still trying to figure that one out.
Anyways, since this topic has gone into the Toyota vs. Ford quality debate, I think the lugnut problem deserves to be mentioned.
tblunder, the first rule you learn as a federal employee is you do your job, nothing less, nothing more. I have no control how the government services its vehicles. From what I've seen, the government will only use domestic makes for official service as well. And the Expeditions are used as people haulers, not work trucks.
tbunder, I would be interested to know the height of your front crossmember, just in front of the front differential with the cranked bars.
Now it's my turn to question YOUR knowledge...
BTW, didn't know Toyota made APCs (Armored Personnel Carriers)? Maybe you can enlighten me?
BTW, I think a locker can be used with an LS front, however, most vehicles do not come stock in that configuration. Even the Ford with a rear LS comes with a front open differential, there is no company that makes a 7.5 inch locker yet for the Ranger Dana front differential.
Hmmm, Dana on the Ford, something else on the Tacoma. . .Hmmm.
Why don't you put down your brochures for once and take a look at Four Wheeler magazine's May 2001 issue. That's where the "stocker with the locker" (meaning Tacoma) beat the Hummer, Jeep and Land Rover in a head-to-head fourwheeling competition. How did your Ranger do? It wasn't even a competitor because it's not even in the same league as these vehicles.
I wasn't even aware that the Tacoma beat these vehicles in the Ultimate 4x4 competition. Thanks to others here, I was informed of this fact. It sure is nice buying a truck and then, year after year, you keep hearing just how better it is and how it keeps beating the competion.
cpousnr, glad you love your Danas so much. Again, let me know when a Dana equipped Ranger beats the Tacoma!
Have fun with this one now!
Toyota is not supplying Taliban with trucks. If you think that, then Boeing is supplying Taliban with 767s.
Comparing the normal Tacoma 4x2 to a Ranger 4x2 is an easy win for the Ranger as the 4x2 Ranger is as beefy as the 4x4 Ranger.
However the Pre-Runner Tacoma is a nice truck where Toyota makes a 4x2 version of their 4x4..
The normal Pre-Runner (not TRD) is a good match to the 4x2 Ranger but a bit pricy..
I do admit that Ford doesn't really offer a 4x2 Ranger with the suspension and tire options that are the available in TRD package.
magazine articles, magazine articles, magazine articles- thats ALL you have. so if four-wheeler says that the kia sportage is the best compact 4x4 suv off-road, you're gonna believe them?
yeah, you probably would wouldn't you.
the people who count in the ever so debatable compact truck category- the buyers- don't seem to have your same opinion on who has the best off-road compact truck and best overall compact truck period. cant argue that one now can you?
The insults you throw at each other, and to others on the board make about as much sense as the arguments your trying to present.
incohesive.. lol..
I'm almost convinced that ya'll are actually the same troll.
While Best overall off-road vehicle has points for each side, it may well be that a Stock 4x4 Taco can out perform a 4x4 Ranger. This is in no way saying or agreeing to the fact that the Ranger is a weakling when it's tires run off the asphalt.
If the above statement, as commonly debated as it is today, with strong sentiments on either side, is taken as fact, then why aren't Tacoma's selling like hot cakes? Why do people still continue to buy Ford, amidst all the persuasion to do otherwise? Well that brings up the second genre in question, being best overall compact truck. Another heated debate topic in itself, but you have to take in mind the vehicle segment we are looking at and driving in. Compact trucks are usually for the more economically minded. Ford is known for it's trucks, and they make them tough. Ford offers more options and better safety for less money. The off-road crowd, even if they may be the majority here, are not the majority on the roads of America.
Sorry about your expedition, but it sounds to me like it will be fixed with a new set of lugnuts for about a buck a piece(or take it to the dealership and have it done for free) Remember that this issue was caught in 1998. But I hope you realize that has as much bearing on this discussion as me bringing up the Toyota Avalon, Camry, and Sienna's front sub frame in 2001. Seems these units built around January 2001 did not receive adequate welding and are prone to catastrophic failure. (Front sub frame separation at highway speeds?)
I think you better keep it to the Ranger vs. Tacoma, dontchathink?
In all honesty, I don't think Ford offers an off-road type package for the 4x2 Ranger.. That was a Mazda thing where they took the 2wd ranger and did the Troy Lee stuff. I think it would be cool if Ford did that, but I guess there's not enough of a market for that type of thing..
I was only bringing up my opinion that Fords everyday 4x2 is much closer comparison to the Pre-Runner version of the Tacoma than it is to the non-prerunner version..
You (and many others here) don't make any sense. Anytime somebody gives their "opinion," you folks demand references and links. YOU gave us your opinion that the Ranger is a more capable off-roader, so I rebuked you with links and magazine articles that CLEARLY prove you wrong. You just don't like being proven wrong so now you're whining and having a temper tantrum, that's all.
Lariat:
Modvptnl made the statement it is "physically impossible" to have a LSD with a locker. How can that be the case if lockers are available for LSDs? Anyways, Modvptnl never commented on this fact and why don't we let him defend his own statements?
Bess:
When did I insult anybody else besides Tblunder? I enjoy having intelligent truck-based discussions with people, like I have had with you, but with Tblunder that's impossible.
Stang:
Glad you told me about Toyota's subframe problem. Just curious, has there been 98 catastrophic failures yet, like there have been with the Expedition's wheels falling off? Right, I didn't think so. Has there even been ONE, or is all this subframe weakness just speculation? I guess it takes Ford 98 times as long as Toyota to recognize and solve a problem then, huh?
I hate to say it, but you guys are the epitome of ignorance and denial. Again, here's the score:
Tacoma: 2 recalls, 2 TSBs
Ranger: 19 recalls, 69 TSBs
Quality studies: Toyota always #1 or in top 3, Ford at the bottom of the list
Toyota has some of the highest resale values in the industry
Tacoma not only whoops Ranger but also every other stock vehicle (including Hummer, Wrangler, Land Rover, etc) in every four-wheel competition.
This just goes to show people defend what they bought, even if it defies all logic and ignores the FACTS. Funny how you guys always argue your Fords are AS good as the Toyotas, not that THEY'RE BETTER. That's because, deep down, you know Toyotas are the best and that's why they're the standard to which everything else is measured.
Please look at the report on www.fourwheeler.com
The jeep with a limited slip differential tied the toyota with a full locker in the off-road test.
The original comparison tested the off-road packaged Toyota against the street prepared nissan and other vehicles. I'd like to see a comparison between the off-road packages of the other pickups and the toyota with and without the full-locker. Four-wheeler also did an article series on converting a postal 2wd jeep with a full rear locker which surprised the editors with its capacity to off-road.
Personally I'm looking at a 4x4 pickup weighing less that 3500# to be towed by my Class c motorhome with a 3500# towing capacity. Toyotas can't be towed per the dealership and other sources. The Ranger can. See www.towingworld.com
However, you have to take everything with a grain of salt. not surprisingly, toyota had quite a few big color-glossy ads in that issue - including the back cover. I'm sure that didn't hurt their chances in the contest.
for everyone else- the Ranger DID have a 2wd with the 4x4 suspension before the embarrassing edge. it was called the "Trailhead", and was offered for one year only in reg. cab shortbeds. it came out in '00 and is extremely rare. it had the 16" wheels on it and all the skidplates. only diff was it didn't come with wheel flares. also, the Mazda Troy Lee version was offered in 2 and 4 wheel drive. they too are extremely rare.
"When did I insult anybody else besides Tblunder?"
followed by, "I hate to say it, but you guys are the epitome of ignorance and denial."
"This just goes to show people defend what they bought, even if it defies all logic and ignores the FACTS. Funny how you guys always argue your Fords are AS good as the Toyotas, not that THEY'RE BETTER. That's because, deep down, you know Toyotas are the best and that's why they're the standard to which everything else is measured. "
Maybe we're all in denial. Maybe some think their opinion MUST be true, and everyone else is "in denial".
Drive what you like or like what you drive?
This is alot of energy for a compact truck. I'm glad I don't own a fullsize, because any debate along those lines must be with teeth and blood.
That is a Toyota HiLux, a diesel truck. Not available in the US.
First we have tbunder demanding to see the numbers, and wanting to see official comparisons, etc. Next he is supplied that. Now everyone is attacking the fourwheeler mag, basically calling the editorial staff (as well as the rest of the staff, who did the comparisons) toyota wh*res, because they put toyota in the first place, and the magazine had 3 big toyota ads. If you can't trust commercial entities to perform comparisons like that, who can you trust? Personal experience? Yeah, right, give me a break. We've seen personal experience on this board, we know we can not trust that. Independant testers? The only way this can get independant, if ranger and toyota fans meet up somewhere in the middle of the US (place comfortable for everyone, we dont want any b1tching here about how pluto had to drive for 7 hours, and you had to drive for 10), and go wheeling/racing on a predetermined plan. AND you need an outside judge, someone impartial to both Toyota and Ranger. Think thats possible? Maybe, but I doubt it.
So until someone can provide an independant test like that, shut up, and live with the official magazine results.
Sorry obyone, but for my 2001 it is not one star.BR>
Remember these are for 2wd pick-ups not 4wd. I think if they tested on 4wd the results would even be higher.
You can have only one of the following:
>Open differential/One wheel drive (Non TRD Tacoma)
>Limited slip Differential(LSD)/Two wheel drive (Ranger)
>Part time Locker(Fully locked axle, or one wheel drive) (TRD Tacoma)
>Full time Locker(Spool, or welded gears. Two wheels drive but they turn at EXACTLY the same rate.) (Typically drag racing cars)
The locking differential he was referring to can be put inside the housing of the LSD rear-end. So it's no longer LSD, it's a part time locker.
Give us all a break, will you?
Stang, you are like arguing with somebody who insists 2+2=5. You ignore the lopsided recall and TSB figures in the Toyota's favor; you ignore the quality ratings with Toyota #1 and Ford at the bottom of the list; you downplay matters like Fords with slashed tires and wheels falling off, then say Toyota is just as bad because of weak welds that so far haven't had one failure. Can't you see for every Toyota problem, the Ford has a minimum of 10?
At this point, I am asking myself: Why am I wasting my time?
Here's a question I have. It looks like if you want a locker (and a lot of people seem to want a locker above anything else) you have to live with an open diff when the locker is not engaged. Since lockers are so popular, I am speculating that the Ranger guys are installing lockers on their trucks, even if that means they give up their LSD, right? After doing that, doesn't that only mean they have what the Tacoma TRD came stock with in the first place?
I'm not trying to start an argument here, but that does seem to be the case with the information provided.
scorpio:
Well, there is a non biased magazine that reviews vehicles. Takes every vehicle, including 4X4 trucks across the same course. The magazine accepts no money for ads. The director of the vehicle test section has 25+ years experience in testing vehicles.
The magazine is Consumer Reports. They rate the Tacoma well but pick the Ranger overall time and time again.
Pluto:
I have pulled 2 Toyota 4X4 trucks, not Tacoma's, out of snow banks with my Ranger. I easily out race and off-road my sons 1994 Toy truck.
For the minority of Ranger owners that do rubicon type off-roading, those folks probably do replace the open diff or LSD with an aftermarket locker.
From what some Tacoma owners have posted, the locker would only engauge if your in 'lo-range' and under 15mph..
When will the locker enguage on a 2wd Tacoma? I didn't think there was a 'lo-range' on those..
proceed.......
Tblunder spouts (that word took a lot of thought huh?) Ranger whoops Tacoma off-roading (yep, mine will woop up on your tird easily). When supplied proof Tacoma is superior, he says the results were biased (are you not seeing the three huge glossy toyota ads in the same mag? yeah, they're really gonna name some other vehicle the winner. not! take a look at consumers reports. no ads, ranger wins each year). Tblunder brags nonstop about his locker ( i did? i mentioned i thought i had one.), finds out he doesn't have a locker, then says lockers are worthless (i never said they were worthless, i said they are good but the lsd is more useful in the real world). Of everybody here, Tblunder by far quotes more spec information obtained in literature, but when somebody else does the same, he accuses them of reading and not wheeling (because you quote inaccurate information with no hard facts to back anything up. you're reading someone else's experiences who are in the business to MAKE MONEY on advertising). Tblunder wants to be treated with respect (again, you made that up. i don't care how you treat me, like i care what you think. isn't that obvious?), but the host has to keep deleting his vulgar and derogatory posts (and you didn't have any of your posts deleted? again, suppression plutonius). Tblunder says Tacoma isn't American made (if toyota's are really american made, then i have some oceanfront farm property here in iowa to sell you), yet won't comment on the Alcoa Fujikara (he bragged about) rims on Rangers and other parts (rims are one thing, a whole truck is another along with engine. also, what are these "other parts there pluto?). Tblunder says that for comparisons to be fair, Ranger should be modified with better equipment, like tires, but then says it's not fair to compare non-stock equipment. (pluto, that last sentence does not even make sense.)
also, i never once said anything about comparing stock trucks not making sense. i think you have me confused with someone else talking about the supercharger.
its obvious to me that if the ranger did come stock with some decent tires, you would be shaking in your boots if asked to compare truck against truck. thats the only thing i ever said about switching to be fair. after all, are tires that big of a deal to you that you're afraid that the ranger would whoop up on your tird if equipped with some decent stock tires like BFG AT's like i have?
ill admit that the ranger's stock tires (non FX4) suck, and won't compete with the tacoma's BFG's off-road. a serious Ranger off-roader however will not keep the firestones or goodyears on. and since the ranger is so much cheaper than the toyota, there will be extra money to spend on a locker if you really want to compare apples to apples. i will gladly take you on with my lsd though. your truck is old, weak, and now outdated.
Give us all a break, will you? (gladly, when you stop making up stories of what others supposedly say)
pluto, you always are entertaining. stay away from those FX4's, you may buy one my friend. also, sounds like you need to take differentials-101. since you're a HUGE off-roader and king of the meets, you'd think you would have known you can't have a locker AND a LSD. duh!!!! ROFLMAO
Practical uses: Drag racing, grade climbing, or anywhere straightline traction is desired or needed. Once you start to turn, then you start having problems.
I have a full time locker, or really a spool inside my Ford 9" on my bracket car. But I would not want a locker on my truck, because I'm not into climbing up a 15 degree sand dune. If I every buy a boat, that could be one use. However for general use, or basically when turning comes into play, a Limited Slip will prove the most worthy.
Yes LSD's have clutches to replace, but so does the manual transmission. LSD's are in use pretty much all the time, as compared to Lockers which only engage for a small fraction of the time the vehicle is in motion.
If I was driving home late one night while it was pouring rain (or snow, or ice), and the road starts to curve, I'd take LSD over a locker anyday.
Yes I agree pluto, there have been a lot of recalls and TSB's recently. However TSB's are simply the manufacturer communicating with those who service vehicles on procedures or protocols on maintenance, part replacement, or even part availability. For instance one recent TSB for the Ranger shows there is an ash cup (tray) available now. Recalls I believe for the most part were a result greater cost cutting efforts, and others simply mistakes.
However Ford isn't going anywhere soon. Ford is STILL the best maker and seller of Trucks, and SUV's. Toyota offers a very competitive line-up, but consumers will buy what they buy.
There have been lots of recent hard lumps for Ford to swallow recently. But it won't choke. Ford can only learn from it's mistakes, and a few years down the road you may want to re-evaluate your disposition towards Ford.
However I still have yet to see any quality issues with the Ford vehicles I drive every day. Granted most of them are made in the early 90's. I believe to quality has slipped in the recent years, but the Ranger seems to one of the least affected lines. I attribute this lack of morale in the Union, that reportably are not up to the standard they used to produce. So while Ford restructures their management, I hope that the plant workers will only follow suit in re-organization. As quality is the one biggest complaint against Ford's, (not mine, but others in general), Ford's job one will become Quality once again.
And you didn't comprehend the point I was trying to get across. This is Ranger vs. Tacoma. You point out 97-98 vehicles that have been on the road for 3-4 years that have 98 accidents because wheels fall off. No rangers mind you, but other Ford vehicles. Then I point out that some of Toyota's popular vehicles were not welded completely, well this is not a result of too much protective coating, but simple negligence. Tires and lug nuts can be replaced for free, and the tires were replaced before any were sold to actual customers. However welding the subframes is a bit more involved than removing a tire or lugnut. I'm not saying which is worse, but both makers make mistakes. Why haven't you seen anything on accidents related to unfinished welds? Because the vehicles were made in January of this year, and have seen little to no use and abuse. If you give it 3-4 years of use and abuse like you have with the 97-98 Fords with lug nut issues, you may see some accidents occur. Good thing this doesn't seem to concern the Tacoma.
Your work truck has not even received the replacement lugnuts after the issue was identified 3 years ago. Leave a problem un-fixed, and it will eventually manifest itself into an accident. Give those affected Toyota's a few years of use, some high speed highway trips, a few spirited romps through the twisties, or let the teenager borrow it, and you may have a missing front end.
Maybe, Plutonious, you might just want to agree to disagree. With me and tblunder, and anyone else on this debate. I am a satisfied customer with a Ranger, and other Fords. So why pay more for less? Any quality issues can be reconciled with a little knowhow, if they even do become evident. Check out the user reviews on the 2002 Ranger on MSN Carpoint, and Edmunds. You either love the truck or don't. And the majority seem to Love it. I do too. I'd buy a Tacoma for it's long lastability, but 9 years and 140 thousand miles is long enough to me to wait to drive something brand new by the Blue Oval.
-There seems to be a lot of misconceptions here about LSD's. A LSD engages only when slippage occurs. It is not "always on." it's reactive, not proactive.
looks like the tacoma isn't THAT much better than the ranger in problems reported by their owners. pluto, these are HARD FACTS.