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TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI
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So if you only want an LSD, standard 4x4 suspension, regular V6 power, then the Tacoma and Ranger would be worthy choices.
But if you want a truck that's going to blow the doors off of anything else out there (how many times does this have to be proven??!!), something that comes STOCK with a locker, heavy duty suspension and 265HP supercharged engine, your only choice is the Tacoma TRD.
To boot, you get this awesome package with Toyota quality and reliability (and warranty). What a combo! Unbeatable on the trail, and super-reliable.
Sorry Tblunder, but your Ranger can't touch that, no matter how much you want it too. Go ahead, keep on living in denial and posting your silly articles, I'll keep on laughing.
first, the tacoma does NOT come stock with a 265 hp supercharged engine. only stock trucks to come with a supercharger are the lightning and frontier. anything else, is added aftermarket by any dealer or shop.
second, last time i checked, the tacoma isn't the only truck to offer an off-road pkg. suspension. my ranger has an off-road pkg, and the S10 offers the ZR2, which anhilates the TRD as far as specific components, and the Nissan Frontier has an off-road suspension package. now, the FX4 by Ford, will put basically every other compact on the trailer before its even at dealers- it has the most stock horsepower and largest tires, along with a real manual t/c and a usable torsen lsd. with or without its foreign wheels, it will smoke any TRD. ask pluto, he's gonna trade his ancient tin can in on one. watch out, the FX4 may be over your tiny budget. the one i saw was over $26K. but i know you'll sell your gold plated roller skates just to lease one wont you? its been fun. find someone else to reply to your stories and lies. in the meantime, ill be waitin' on your chicken little pepsi can in central iowa. also, lay off of the ford salesguys a little, will ya? LMAO at you pluto!!! does you momma know how much attention you seek?
Maybe the factory options on the Tacoma TRD is why it's the undisputed 4x4 champ 4 years running. Oh, and your Ranger? Not even a competitor in some of the contests (didn't make the cut).
first off, it does not need a s/c to beat the tacoma in horsepower. it only comes with ford's re-designed class-leading SOHC 4.0 engine which has 207 horsepower and more torque than the 3.4 tacoma engine.
it comes with bilstein shocks, i dont know how big they are (as in comparison to the 46mm's on the ZR2).
it does NOT have a locker, instead it has a Torsen limited-slip. this, according to ford, is what serious off-roaders told them they preferred. this whole package was built and designed according to input ford received when they gathered a bunch of serious off-roaders to discuss a new and hardcore off-road package for the venerable Ranger.
it has a new front skidplate protecting the crossmember and steering, a plate only offered previously in 2000 off-road pkg. equipped trucks. my truck does not have this, pissed me off. its $175 from ford, but my truck sits pretty high up front now, so im pretty clear on most obstacles. plus, it (the FX4 along with all rangers period)has steel plates protecting fuel tank and t/c. big ones, not wimpy ones like the tacoma t/c has. that one looks like a ripped up pop can hanging down. what good it would do if dropped on a rock is beyond me.
the 31" BFG's fit without any problems. no mods had to be done. i have 265/70/16's on my '01 ranger,basically the same size, just a little wider. and they fit easily. a 275 probably would clear, but not needed.
the FX4 has special really THICK stainless steel towhooks front and rear. it has revalved spring rates along with a locking front differential. no, just kidding. hehe.
however, if you do order the manual tranny, you get a manual transfer case, with cool eight ball shift knobs. also, an mp3 cd player is offered. bucket seats only, thats why i didn't wait on one earlier when i bought mine. i wanted the split bench up front, so i could put 5 people in my truck if desired.
also, it has special alcoa off-road spec. wheels, which are rated to handle twice that of what the ranger's gvwr is. one more cool thing, is that the seat's uphostery is like broken bones, skeleton look. cool i think. i believe it has some kind of steering stabilizer too. not sure though. ill try and find a link to better explain it. they're cool, but dude, five years down the road, it will be obsolete. next year the ranger is going to be totally redone. everything. so it will be old hat next year. they look tough. wheels make it look cool. only four colors- silver, black, bright red, and really dark blue.
why not offer a s/c on the ranger? two reasons- first, it already has close to 20 more horsepower on your tacoma's stock engine, not to mention it costs you toyota guys easily $2grand if not more to get one installed. and for what? drag racing ability? no one's going to tow a 40 foot, 10000 pound boat with a tacoma i dont think; with or without your beloved s/c.
second, when you sell hundreds of thousands more rangers than tacoma's each year ever since the tacoma wasn't even around, why offer something when the general public could care less? 207 horse is more than enough power to do what a compact truck needs to do. i didn't buy my 4x4 to drag race. now in a 2x2 lowered or something, a s/c would be cool. however, a blown SOHC 4.0 from paxton would smoke a 3.4 with a s/c. granted it wouldn't be covered under warranty, but it could be done.
regarding the rear locker, the ranger does not have one. does ford want to equip the ranger with a locking diff. and can't figure out how? i hardly doubt it. they see that the lsd works ALL the time, at any speed and is usable in all situations. not just when one is not moving and then it can be engaged, and then to only be able to go 15mph, is totally useless in all but the most extreme situations. a lsd will go 99% of places a locker attempts.
big deal, you have a locker. you also have spot weld marks below your rear window that look cheap and weak. a rear window that is very tiny and old fashioned looking. you have very thin doors and no four-door option. you have a truck with poor safety ratings, an engine with a timing belt which could break at any time, and take out your whole engine. no abs standard. you have a truck that cannot tow as much as a ranger, or the availability of a lsd. either locker or nill. check out the '01 or '02 brochures if you don't believe me.
you know, i actually was thinking of a double cab 4x4 this january. after a little research and pricing, the toyota purchase is a joke. 4 months out to a special order, and hardly any discount off msrp. the safety is not there, neither are the standard options. everything on a tacoma you have to pay for, where on a ranger or frontier its all offered standard. heck, the loaded frontier crew cab 4x4 XE barely broke $22500. thats msrp. they will sell for $300 over invoice, and a special order which i will do is only 30-60 days. nissan, toyota. both japanese, both have good reputations. but NOT american made. maybe american assembled. but please do not try and tell me that the toyota is 100% american made. that's a joke. yo
a. Toyota does not offer a limited slip diff (LSD)in the Tacoma.. It is not available as an option. This is confirmed on Edmunds, carpoint, and Toyota's own site.. You claim that the tacoma offered an LSD in 2000..I see where Edmunds indicates this, however I choose the beleive that the one Edmunds page is wrong (for year 2000), and the other 5 Edmunds pages are correct (other years), and that the Toyota site is correct..
b. There is no factory available supercharger for the Tacoma. It's not listed at Edmunds, carpoint or Toyota's site..
Also, we've been using the term 'factory option' to indicate an item that is available by factory and warranted by the manufacturer warranty.. If you've found a dealer that will install the supercharger, the warranty for this is going to be that of the supercharger vendor or an outside warranty company..
-I would suspect that this is exactly the reason many people want a toyota - it's not american made.
BTW, isn't the ranger engine made in germany?
as far as the 4.0, not sure. but i wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't made over there. after all, that's where the contour/mystique/cougar platform cars were based, along with the focus.
Tim
Anyway, the reason I asked is that I was in similar situation a little over a year ago. I wan't looking for a crew cab, but I wanted a truck with a stronger engine. I was driving a '99 Mazda B3000 4X4 and really liked it except for the 3.0L engine (kind of underpowered in certain situations - but respectable MPG). I was holding out for the '01 Ranger and the SOHC 4.0L when, on the spur of the moment, I test drove a Dakota with the 4.7L V8. Well, that was all she wrote and that's what I'm driving now. I understand you concerns about Mopar. But my Dakota has been solid and there is nothing like a V8 with a 5-speed. Got a nice deal on it too. Best of luck with the Nissan (if you get one). Thanks...
Tim
My dad and I just got back from two Ford dealerships and a GM dealership. The Rangers had engines made in Germany and the U.S. and transmissions from U.S., Canada and France. I believe other Fords had Mexico as assembly points/country of origin on other Ford vehicles as well. I seriously wonder if Rangers are more American made than Tacomas.
After looking at the Rangers, here are some observations. Suspension componets certainly do hang below the rear axle (shock absobers and their brackets) and the absobers were spaced close together, not like the Tacoma's where they're near the outer edges of the axle. I liked the Tacoma's arrangement better. I saw no 4x4 Ranger with a lever-actuated 4WD system. Are they even available anymore? The oversized fender flares had gaps between them and the body, unlike the Tacoma's which are fastened differently. I do not care for the styling of the Ranger at all (especially the fake raised hood buldges/scoops, looks juvenile), IMHO the Tacoma is a better looking truck, especially the 98s and 99s. ALL the Fords to me looked somewhat cheap and plain, with lots of plain plastic everywhere, unsightly black metal seat brackets, and non-uniform body gaps. While the Ranger's 4.0 engine was strong, it was rough and unrefined in comparison to the Tacoma's. I honestly think my 98 Tacoma is just as quick or quicker than the Rangers I drove, and it was certainly smoother while doing it. The only thing I liked better about the Ranger is that it did seem to offer me more room and was very comfortable. As a general observation, the Fords seemed about $2000 less than comparable Toyotas.
Maybe the Ford has heavier duty skid plates because the Ford's underside is more vulnerable than the Tacoma's. That certainly seems to be the case from what I saw today.
Some of you guys are mislead on the Tacoma's supercharger. The supercharger is a genuine bolt-on Toyota componet made specifically for the Toyota 3.4L engine, and the charger does not void any warranty whatsoever. I don't care where it's installed, in effect, it is a factory option.
Tblunder, I am sincerely happy you are so happy with your Ranger. I wouldn't be. Have you even driven the Tacoma? Maybe you would be surprised at how smooth the engine runs, how crisply the 5 speed shifts and engages, and even how quick it is. Honestly, I am thrilled with my truck to this day, even though it's going on 4 years old and despite all the "faults" you keep seeing with it. My dad said the same thing I thought as we left the dealership - "I wouldn't trade your Toyota in for anything on this lot."
to look, I don't wanna look, I won't
post a link, I won't look at the link
u post etc................
BTW: have a great day pluto aka ernisto
zedillo aka DAVID BODNAR !!!!!!!
ranger's more practical.
who buys trucks for their seat brackets?
toyota's seats have been known for years to be the crappiest in the industry.
ford's interior is plush and fancy compared to tacoma. its straight out of the explorer.
more available doors.
more standard stuff.
more horsepower.
timing chain, not a cheap risky belt.
heavier duty components.
did i mention they were less money for one than a tacoma?
the raised hood is not "fake" like you say, it was raised to make way for the bigger SOHC 4.0.
regardless of what you say, i think you like it and are jealous. it looks tough and you know it.
dont know how "rough" a new engine is, but my 4.0 is silkier than my mom's Mark VIII with the DOHC 4.6.
you like you truck, i like mine. the toyotas are cheap, just look at your nice spot weld marks all along the back part of your cab and your thin doors. you wont see that on any ford. the ford is way ahead of the tacoma in technology. the abs is special this year to adapt to different kinds of conditions automatically. as is the 5spd auto. it adjusts to the trucks driver's driving habits. its a lot safer and has Dana axles, which are the leaders in off-roaders' opinions.
btw, what's you dad got, a tundra? y'all were against ford when you drove in the lot, and nothing would have changed you guys' minds. why'd you waste you time?
Sonjaab, still lurking around, huh? Yeah, I've used names like Ernesto Zedillo, David Bodnar, Ralph Ferguson, Yoda, Billy Coleman, etc. on the internet. If you're using your real name, that's not good.
4 door implies 4 doors.
And went with Nissan POS. You know, you probably could have spent a little more money, and bought a V8, you'll be using the same gas milage as the 3.3L wimpy Nissan engine with a charger on top of it.
And if you really would like to see where you are heading in that thing, take a look at this
http://www.nissandriven.com/insideNissan/LookingAheadArticle/0,9401,536,00.html
This is your truck's future. Enjoy
You are too scatter-brained to have an intelligent discussion with.
Tim
The extended cab truck's rear doors short and open backwards. But they still really help loading stuff like gear bags etc from the rear area.
The Tacoma extended cab is not available with 4-doors.. The Ranger extended cab does have 4-door availablity..
The Tacoma has a double cab, where the rear doors open normal, but bed size is reduced. The Ford equalivalent to this is the Explorer Sport-trac.
So extended cab does not imply 2 doors.. In fact in Fords full size trucks, all F-series extended cab models have 4 doors..
Figure out the LSD/Locker/open diff dilemma yet, Pluto?? Your apology is accepted.
Only thing Yota has is the "factory" warranty.
Vortech has a 3 year warranty, and if you use zmax, you'll have a 150,000 mile warranty on all lubricated parts.
Tacoma owners: How much extra do you pay for Platinum Protection?
Maybe you need to learn to count. Posted misinformation? Here's a quick count from memory on Tblunder's misinformation: 1. Tacoma not 100%made in US, Ranger is 2. Tacoma's diff/pumpkin is less than 6" 3. Ranger comes with locker 4. Tblunder says Tacomas don't come with 31" tires 5. Ranger more capable off-roader than Tacoma (we've beaten this one to death, but you guys still won't acknowledge the published evidence) 6. Ranger doesn't have suspension componets hanging below rear axle 7. Ranger has lower gearing (4.10) than Tacoma...Darn, I know there's more, but I just can't remember them all.
Of course, you wouldn't call Tblunder to the carpet, being he's a fellow Ford Fan...
I recall a prior discussion with you on DOHC engines versus pushrod-configured engines. You said something to the effect of DOHC engines basically being worthless in a truck, being that they operate at high RPMs and have no torque down low. You never commented on my DOHC engine producing its max torque just over 3000 rpm. Please answer this question for me. If DOHC engines are so worthless, why does Ford's 4.0 engine only produce a measly 17HP more than the Toyota 3.4? .6 litres displacement only making a difference of 17 horses? That's pretty absurd, considering there are many engines out there making well over 100 horses per litre of displacement now. And your sidekick Tblunder keeps spouting how technologically superior the Ranger is...especially considering how long the Toyota 3.4 has been around and how ancient it is...
Guys, this score-keeping and bickering was fun at first, now it's stupid and old. Mod, Tbunder (I'll refrain from calling you "Tblunder" from now on) and others, I'll be around if you guys want to talk about automotive issues. Otherwise, count me out from now on with this silly arguing.
From what I've read here, the 4.0L Ford V6 has had a troublesome and lackluster performance record, especially in the Explorer. That being the case, supercharging this engine will surely compound problems even further.
Again, I like Toyota's supercharger approach. A Toyota made, true bolt-on componet for the proven 3.4L that keeps the 5yr/60K mile warranty intact. Ranger does not have this.
While your info on the vortech supercharged Ford V6 is interesting, remember ANY engine can produce impressive power specs, if you don't mind modifying it. I could easily argue that a supercharged Tacoma with headers and nitrous wound pound a vortech-charged Ranger. But this would be a never-ending and pointless argument.
You think supercharging the Ranger 4.0l would compound it's problems? From what you read here is no real world indication. Sure there are some who report problems with 4.0l in Explorers. But for every problem, there is 10 trouble free. Don't forget the Explorer is the biggest selling SUV in America. Ranger is lighter, and any problematic issues with the 4.0l are likely to be fixed in each years revision and tweaks. I'll do some more research on this one.
A 4 valve, or typically DOHC engine is suited for high RPM use. Otherwise, at lower RPM speeds you are losing your volumetric efficiency. The Tacoma 3.4l is tuned via Intake and programming to offset this rule, but you still have 2 valves opening (per cycle) when you probably only need one. Besides that is more rotating mass for your camshaft to push. That's a little more parasitic drag on the engine. 4 valves can help your engine breath deep when needed, but actually hurts when it's just trying to get going at low RPM. Plus in the unlikely event of breakage, DOHC will signifigantly increase your costs to repair. 4 valvers generally are made to spin to higher RPM's, while 2 valvers are made to spin more moderate RPM's. Now in a truck, typically used to haul weight around, which makes more sense? Lower RPM, more Torque lower in the powerband. Make no mistake about 2 valve engines, they still produce plenty of power. If you doubt 2 valve engines, look at the Mustang GT's, Ford Lightnings, and the Corvette LS1.
This brings me to your next point, why only 17 (PEAK) HP more than the 3.4l peak HP? You may be closer to realizing the traits of the 2 valve engines vs 4 valve engines by reading the above paragraph. Let's also not confuse Peak ratings with average ratings(HP and torque). If you look at the advertised peak Torque, you'll notice that the 3.4l's RPM is about 17% higher than the 4.0l's. Guess what? The 4.0l is about 15% bigger than the 3.4l. Torque is what you use to move the vehicles. Horsepower is how fast you do it. With the 4.0l, you get more torque lower in the RPM range.
It's not a huge difference, and both engines can definitely do their own job. Of course I can already see someone out there posting, yeah, the 4.0l is better, till you slap a supercharger on the 3.4l, and under warranty too, nyah nyah!
"6. Ranger doesn't have suspension componets hanging below rear axle". You probably meant what is contrary to above, but why would that make the other better? "5. Ranger more capable off-roader than Tacoma (we've beaten this one to death, but you guys still won't acknowledge the published evidence)" Well maybe only in this case, but you should know by now that 99.9% of us don't care. Either we don't go off-roading, or know the Ranger's prowess off-road and are not hindered by suspension components that hang below the axle. That shouldn't matter unless you climbing boulders.
"1. Tacoma not 100%made in US, Ranger is 2. Tacoma's diff/pumpkin is less than 6" 3. Ranger comes with locker 4. Tblunder says Tacomas don't come with 31" tires"
Live and let Live. After saying this, you're proving what? Must make you feel superior pointing out the errors of others.
About differentials, by now you should know that a LSD serves you any time you are in need, a Locker only in Hardcore go straight, slow and sure times.
Why would you change a LSD to a Locker(same housing or not)? Only if you want to sacrifice on-road traction for ultimate off-road performance. Just by stating this fact, does not mean everybody is running out and doing so. Maybe 1 out of every 5000 owners will, but probably only when that shiny new truck has a few miles and years on it, and the owner is ready to thrash it off-road.
Ranger has lower gearing than Tacoma? LOL, I don't see why that's important to you. I'm pretty sure a 4.10 is available on 4x4 models, but why do you even think this is a factor. The (numerically) higher the gearing, the faster you can accelerate, but the quicker you will top out your truck. A lower gearing helps gas milage, and lower cruise RPM. (Unless you like traveling 70 MPH at 3500 RPM.)
That's why I think the DOHC makes so much sense in compact trucks and cars. When compared to OHC/pushrod engines with the same power specs, the DOHC is going to be lighter and smaller. I do agree with you that these motors are not intended for heavy duty towing where massive torque is needed down low. But for compact trucks, a well designed DOHC does the job fine.
Now for all this supercharging stuff. I believe the Ranger is available with a 4 cylinder and 3.0L 6cyl and 4.0L 6cyl. Really, the Ford 3.0L would be better compared to the Toyota 3.4L, as these two engines are closer in displacement. Now, I know nobody's going to do that; everybody is going to compare the best available engines on truck models. So the best available Ford engine for the Ranger is the 4.0L 6cyl. The best available Toyota engine for the Tacoma is the supercharged 3.4L 6cyl. Fair is fair; when we compare these engines, the Toyota is the clear winner.
Tacomas and Rangers are both available in normal 4WD models. These are the trucks that "99.9% of the people who don't care" about offroading will buy. Tacomas and Rangers are also both available with special off-roading packages like the FX4 and the TRD. Anybody buying the FX4, or Ranger with the off-road package, is obviously concerned with off-roading performance. That the Tacoma TRD has been the 4x4 champ four years running is a valid argument when we compare these trucks.
Having low gearing is important when four-wheeling. You don't want to be riding the clutch so you can go slow through the rough stuff (which is what happens when you don't have low gearing). You should see the roads I have to drive on. You would understand.
Stang, I really don't have that much against Ford. In fact, I'm trying to talk my dad into getting an F-250 Superduty Crewcab right now. He's 6'5" and needs something that will fit him. He also wants something he doesn't have to change snow tires on, that he can carry a few people in, and do some towing and hauling. Basically, he wants one do-it-all vehicle. I think by far the domestic brands make the best full size trucks. But I also think the domestics take a back seat to the "imports" (hey, they're not really imports anymore) when we talk about compact trucks and certainly sedans. The Camry we drove was so superior to the Taurus and CERTAINLY the Malibu (what a piece of junk!) that it's almost comical. I think the Ranger is a good truck, and it was certainly comfortable and roomy on the inside, I'll give it that. But I also think the Tacoma is built a little better and looks better. And it is known for its reliability and off-road prowess, which is what I want.
also, the current tacoma does not come with 31" tires. it has metric sized tires. which may or may not measure 30.7 inches, but they are not like yours on your '98, which are FLOTATION 31" tires and have an overall different size and price. the sidewall's are ALOT taller and thicker on a flotation 31, and they are a little narrower in width than the metric 265/70-16. how many times do i have to explain this?
i misspoke on the punkin and locker. i already admitted this. locker/lsd- both really do the same things in different ways. lsd just more useful in the real world.
but toyota and nissan are japan made (why can't you admit this?), and then assembled in usa. i confirmed this with both dealers over the wknd. parts are shipped to usa then assembled. my ranger on the other hand has a build tag right inside the door which reads manufactured by ford motor co. in usa. hmmm...
also, your s/c'd 3.4 cannot be compared to ford's "best" engine, the 4.0 sohc, simply because it's not an optional engine from the factory. it's a specially modified engine. which costs more and has to be installed after initial factory build of truck. therefore, to be fair, we must compare available engines from the factory. after all, your precious four-wheeler mag doesn't equip their tacoma with a s/c do they? you'd think if it wasn't such a big deal like you lead everyone to believe, they would just throw one on too. one more thing, the ford 3.0 should be compared to the 150 I-4 offered with the tacoma. the 3.0 is really anemic powerwise, but a good engine nonetheless for someone who is not going to tow. it comes with 4.10 gearing as well as the 4.0 engine. it has the power, just not the torque. as in the little 4banger offered by toyota.
Just because a motor is DOHC or SOHC or pushrod does not make it magically have more or less power. Your "DOHC allows more fuel/air to be burned" comment may be the goofiest statement yet.
The advantages of DOHC design is simply that it will allow the valve, via a cup or shim, to be actuated directly off a cam lobe. This will usually allow a motor to achieve higher RPM with less change of direction because of no push rods or rockers. The fact that your Toy motor produces good low end numbers is indicative of tuning and is a waste of DOHC technology. Please note that the Honda 3.2 V6 that screams in the Accura is a SOHC design that utilizes rockers for its 4 valve set up. GM's truck motors produce outstanding numbers using 2 valve pushrod technology but I wouldn't want to spin one to 7000 RPM.
The reason your Toy has 4 valve DOHC is simply parts bin technology. The truck motors share many parts with the car line as does the tundra/LC V8. As do Ford and GM truck motors. Does a stock DOHC/4valve motor have more aftermarket potential than a 2 valve SOHC? YES!!! At the HP/torque levels that a truck is supposed to run at is DOHC an advantage? NO!!! In fact, without variable valve timing a 4 valve motor will be way DOWN on low end power because you are compromising low speed velocity with too much port/volume.
BTW, just picked up a Lexus last week so I cannot be accused of being biased. Just the facts.
What is all this talk about the Toyota supercharger? Why does it matter where it is installed? I can go to a Toyota dealership and buy a Tacoma with a Toyota supercharger on it which does not void any Toyota warranty. The engine is not really "modified," being the supercharger is a true bolt-on componet. You make it sound as if we're boring out the block and installing headers. You cannot do this with the Ranger, from the factory or the dealer. BTW, there are quite a few guys out there who have the supercharger, but you will not know it because usually there's no graphics on the truck indicating so.
Tbunder, you brought up the point the Tacoma is not 100% American made. So I brought up the point I saw Rangers whose stickers had assembly points/country of origin with Canada, Germany, US, France, and - hold your breath - even Japan. So neither are 100% American or Japanese made (like just about everything else in our global economy now).
Mod - I don't believe the Toyota 3.4L was built as is simply due to parts bin technology. First, I believe the 3.4L is used in only the Tacoma and the 4Runner and it is configured the same. To my knowledge, there are no other Toyota vehicles out there using this engine configured differently, and it has always been built with DOHC. It's not like there are Camrys or Highlanders with a different variation of this motor, so how can you say it was built due to parts bin technology? Second, parts bin technology is used to save the manufacturer money by using the same parts between different engines. As stated, the 3.4L isn't used elsewhere, and DOHC costs more to make in the first place.
I think you should compare the Toyota DOHC 4.7L V8 with the Chevy 4.8L V8. The Toyota totally outperforms the Chevy in this case so easily that the Chevy 5.3L is used during comparisons. This confirms what I said about smaller DOHC engines being as powerful as bigger OHC/pushrod engines. Look at the Ranger 4.0L versus the Tacoma 3.4L DOHC. .6L is only accounting for an additional 17 horses! The numbers and comparison tests certainly confirm that DOHC engines have a place in the small/light truck market, despite your belief and working knowledge on engines that they don't. Again, we are talking compact/light duty trucks here.
You say my statement of fuel/air being burned is the goofiest yet. ALL engines derive their energy from burning fuel/air. If a smaller engine is making more power than a larger one, that is because - 1. it is burning as much or more fuel/air in the same time period 2. it is burning the fuel/air more efficiently/completely 3. the smaller engine is more efficient at converting the chemical energy found in the fuel/air mixture to mechanical/kinetic energy.
Toyota's small V8 outperforms Chevy's smaller V8, so Chevy always sends its big V8 to comparisons. But Chevy's big V8 is still stronger than Toyota's 4.7. Try 40 more horsepower.
Ford's 4.0 makes about 17 more horsepower and 17 more lbs of torque than the Tacoma engine. Keep in mind, those extra ponies come 600 rpm lower. I'd say that's a pretty good bargain for an extra .6 liters.
Not picking fights, just pointing out that you basically claimed Dohc engines are mroe powerful than bigger pushrod engines and then pointed out one case where a bigger V8 makes 40 more horsepower than the smaller Toyota V8 and another case where the bigger Ford 4.0 makes more horsepower than the Tacoma's 3.4 and more torque at lower rpm's. Basically, you didn't prove your point. You just reiterated that there's no substitute for cubic inches when it comes to truck applications other than stoplight racing, which really isn't one.
I will check sources to make sure but I was under the impression the 3.4 is a stroked/bored 3.0 that is available in camrys and the Lexus ES300. This is standard practice and basically what the GM 4.8/5.3/6.0 and Ford 4.6/5.4/6.8 is. It's all in the tuning when you talk about 5000 RPM truck motors. For instance, the 3.0L in The Lexus has 210 HP or 30 more than the larger 3.4 in the trucks. The DOHC is NOT BEING USED TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL IN A TRUCK.
The reason I dissed your DOHC comment is that it's not the DOHC that's allowing more fuel/air. It's cam timing, valve size, port velocity etc. Just because something is DOHC doesn't allow it magically to have a higher air fuel delivery. I used the Accura 3.2l as an example. It's SOHC but still uses 4 valves and has a higher specific output than your truck motor. How can that be if DOHC automatically gives more power??? My point is the Toy DOHC is a GREAT motor. But it's not a GREAT FEATURE for a relitively low RPM truck motor.
My high school math teacher was right. I should of payed him more attention... anyways...
Ranger 4.0l: 3000 RPM 135 HP 238 Lbs/ft
5250 RPM 207 HP 207 Lbs/ft
Tacoma 3.4l: 3600 RPM 150 HP 220 Lbs/ft
4800 RPM 190 HP 207 Lbs/ft
Torque is still in the Rangers favor. If we assume the torque curve(line) above is fairly constant, at 5250 RPM the 3.4l outputs about 198 lbs/ft while the 4.0l does 207. At 3000 RPM, the 4.0L outputs 238 lbs/ft, while the the 3.4l must be less than 220 lbs/ft, at it's peak is 600 RPM later.
So your smaller engine isn't making more power, or being more efficient with fuel. For an engine with 17.7% more cubic inches, a 5-7% decrease in gas milage disproves your more efficient theory.. The 3.4l is making less power, and only in the upper RPM band. Hence a 'tuned' 4 valver.
Exactly like what describe Toyota dealers will do.
btw: no aftermarket part or bolt on will automatically void the factory warranty. By law, the only time the factory warranty is affected by aftermarket parts, is if the failure in question was actually caused by the part.. If the aftermarket part caused the damage, then reputable aftermarket companies cover that.. The other way that warranty coverage is maintained is via an aftermarket warranty which many dealerships also offer.
So, if your critera for 'available options' for a truck include those items that are dealer installed and still warranted, then the doors are pretty far open.. Heck, my brother bought an F250 about 5 years ago, brand new, and the dealer installed larger tires and a small lift prior to delivery.
If you want to get into the discussion of which truck has more available aftermarket options, then so be it..
To compare a Toyota with aftermarket
modifications (bolt-on's) to a factory Ranger is not a valid comparison. If you want to play by your own rules, then put aftermarket shocks, larger tires, and locker to the Ranger and then compare it's off-road capabilities to the Tacoma TRD..
After all, all of those Ranger components are often installed by Ford dealerships across the USA and do not void the factory warranty.
-I hope you never have to have this situation arise. Believe me, if there's any connection between a mechanical problem to an aftermarket part, no matter how ridiculous or remote, the dealer will take advantage of it and void your warranty. And good luck trying to argue with them. You are screwed with a capital S.
Looks like it has some fairly good articulation too. . .
Nice unit!
As for the Toyota 3.4L spinning faster to get more power, that is the consequence of being a smaller engine, not necessarily the consequence of being DOHC. I don't know the figures, but I'm sure the Ford 3.0L V6 is going to have its power/torque higher in the RPMs than the similarly configured Ford 4.0L V6. Generally, larger engines idle slower and redline at a lower limit than their smaller counterparts.
Good God, stang. Can't you see the point I'm making? 190HP Toyota 3.4L translates into a 55.88 horses per litre ratio. Ford's 4.0L has 51.75 horses per litre ratio (and is probably a heavier engine). Sizewise, the DOHC IS making more power. Too bad Toyota didn't make a 4.0L DOHC that we could compare to the Ford 4.0L. If the relationsip between displacement and HP was perfectly linear, a Toyota 4.0 DOHC would be making 223.53 horses.
Bess, eagle63 is right on the money. It's hard enough to get dealerships to honor warranties to begin with, let alone do it with modified vehicles.