Infiniti M37 M56 Lease Questions

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

Hi lthaley756. Infiniti extended its June incentives through July 7th. It is difficult to say what its programs will look like after that at this point.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

Good morning Larry. Here is the info that you're looking for. Through July 7th, Infiniti Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2008 M35X with 12,000 miles per year are .00048 and 64%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease are .00091 and 51%. If you were to lease with only 10,000 miles per year, I believe that this car's residual values would be 1% higher.

I personally would be surprised if Infiniti's July lease program, which is due out on the 8th, is worse than its current one...but it is impossible to predict exactly what automakers will do with their programs.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

Hi ltcadviser. This particular discussion is for community members to talk about leasing the Infiniti M35 and M45. You will have better luck getting feedback on the BMW 535i lease that you are interested in by posting over in the "BMW 5-Series Lease Questions" discussion.

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ltcadviser · July 2008

I know. It's ok. I am buying an M35 Sport, though. I was just curious about the BMW.

Here is my question. Today I was at an Infiniti dealership and received an offer. The problem is, the offer was strictly payment/mo. and money down. The individual could not answer the only question that is relevant which is

What is my capitalized cost??

So, I need help. The salesperson is off until Monday. I need help in backing into the capitalized cost by plugging in the residual and money factor.

The car is an M35 Sport with Premium Package (Tech, Advanced Tech, and Mobile Entertainment.

The MSRP is approximately $53,400.

I was offered a 39 month lease, 15,000 miles per year for $670 out of pocket (1st pmt), $670/month. I have $2000 loyalty available.

If someone has the MF and residual and can figure out approximately what the cap cost is, I would appreciate it.

For the adjusted cap cost there will be a $599 doc fee.

I told the sales person that I would buy the car if the cap cost is MSRP minus $8600(by my calculations there is $5200 markup over invoice, $800 holdback, the aforementioned $599 padded doc fee, and $2000 loyalty).

So I will buy the car for $44,800.

My bet though is they are closer to $47,000.

Please advise
(

ghstudio · July 2008

I don't have the residual/mf for 39 months...but I can tell you that if you leased that car for 24 months at the price you think you can negotiate, you should be able to lease the car for about $615 a month plus tax.

lthaley756 · July 2008

how did you arrive at the $8600 markup? and is that before the 2K incentive?

ghstudio · July 2008

I'm not the original poster, but did you actually read his post where he said:

I told the sales person that I would buy the car if the cap cost is MSRP minus $8600(by my calculations there is $5200 markup over invoice, $800 holdback, the aforementioned $599 padded doc fee, and $2000 loyalty).

ltcadviser · July 2008

How did I arrive at 8600??

Not including the$2000 rebate, its $6600

Well, there is approximately $5200 spread between invoice and MSRP on an M35 Sport with Premium package. (This is Technology, Advanced Tech, and Mobile entertainment. There is roughly 1.5% holdback which is about $800. There is the $600.00 documentation fee. And of course I get the $2000 rebate.

I apologize for formerly being in the busines and discussing what we refered to as a "net net net" deal or a "triple net" deal.

This is "invoice minus incentives minus hold back".

Invoice is a net deal
Invoice ninus incentives (dealer keeps holdback is a double net)
Invoice minus incentives minus holdback is triple net.

If I allow the dealer ship to keep the doc fee included prior to the adjusted cap calculation, it is just a double net deal, which is approximately $2800 back of invoice if you include the $2000 customer loyalty. So inreality it's really only $800 back.
Dealership then still makes $600, and gets a flat from Infiniti Financial Services for the lease. Maybe $400.

So the delership still nets out $1000, and moves inventory from the floor plan, which is critical with dealerships off 20-30% from 12 months ago, and 2009 merchandise around the corner.

Again, my apologies for ever have stooped low enough to be a new car F&I.
And a real sincere apology if I sold you worthless lojack and window etch on your 1996 Maxima SE and only charged you $1200, because you had no idea.

C'mon everybody ----get some stones and quit thinking "$500 over invoice" is a real good deal.

Start a deal off from the bottom up, and not the top down, and you might be amazed at what you could get.

Don't think for a second

ltcadviser · July 2008

Thanks. In my head that is close to the number I came up with, and was going to counter with.

They have me at $626.17 + tax right now on a 39 month lease, 15,000 miles with $650 out of pocket.

At the very least I could counter and say I would do the $626 + tax ($670) if they move the 39 month term down to 24 months, and see what they say.

I have been receiving comparable offers on M35 tech/advanced tech deals...so to get the premium package car and the sport package thrown in for the same money seems aggressive.

It's intriguing anyway.

I am getting closer.

Just really don't want moonlight white with stone. not for 39 months anyway.
I am going to shoot for those numbers on 24 months, 15000 miles.

kroach · July 2008

I have been reading up on the M35 for past couple weeks and almost leased one for $655.00 month; $50,000 msrp; $1,000 below invoice; 15k per year; 36 month lease. This was the best deal I could find. However, I checked the MB dealer next door and found out they were offering employee pricing on the E series. I was blown away when I found out I could lease a fully loaded E350 4MATIC MSRP $57,260 for $620 month per month; 27 months $0 down. I could not pass this up. These cars nornally lease for $800+ per month but with the employee pricing they take 12.25% off msrp. The dealers only get a small amount of numbers they can use for the employee pricing. I think it will run until end of July or until the 08's run out.

ltcadviser · July 2008

With 15,000 miles that is a steal for the e350. But I need voice activated navigation, and Mercedes does not offer it on the 350 yet. At least I don't think so.

Spoke with GM of an Infiniti dealership that is not selling me the car I am looking at, and he confirmed with me that currently there is additional dealer tiered program money $500/$1000/$1500 etc. per copy depending on each store's goal and whether they hit their number or not.

For the most part, if the infiniti store is hitting its monthly targeted goals, not even counting conquest and loyalty money, the dealer can go back $2500 behind invoice once 1.5% holdback is included (roughly $800 on a loaded M), once you factor in $1000 or $1500 tiered program retro dealer money, and typical doc fees of $500.

Of course the dealer views this retro program money for the most part as "unnegotiable" and off the table with the majority of buyers, but if a dealer has hit its number for the month, it knows it is getting the tiered money, and often times, extra units will push all the vehicles sold in the month to the next tier, so it is very important leverage to be aware of. Especially when a manager throws out the BS line " why should I sell you a car and lose money", i.e go below invoice..Just tell him that he might need your deal to get to the next tier. He will understand immediately that you know the business, and then the control of the negotiation is tilted a little bit more in your favor.

kroach · July 2008

Your right there is no voice activated navigation on the e350. The navigation on the M35 seems much more user friendly. I really liked the rear cam on the M35 as well. I love both cars but I couldn't justify paying more for the infinity or stomach going back to infinity to hagle any further.

tvhmiami · July 2008

I have been reading the prior messages. Very helpful.

My 39-month lease on a 2006 M35 Base Model expires in a couple of weeks.

I am looking at a replacement 39-month lease on a 2008 M35 Base model with absolute zero down. MSRP (plus delivery) is supposed to be $44,765. Should be pretty simple, right?

Two weeks ago, the dealer said $572 per month plus tax was the best possible. Two days ago, the dealer said (on the phone) $560 per month plus tax.

From what I have been reading on this site, my arithmetic indicates that this dealer is still $30 to $40 per month high. Is that correct?

I understand that a new program starts on July 8th. I have to believe the incentives will be improved. Sales of Ms are down 33% year-to-year for June.... So, I will wait for the new program.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

ltcadviser · July 2008

You can do better than that. The dealer should absolutely be closer to $500.

You are focusing on the purchase backwards.

Just negotiate the buying price of the car. (In a lease this is referred to as the capitalized cost)....The payment will just be the end result of the negotiated selling price. I never even talk payment on a lease. I discuss the cap cost....that's it. nothing else to it. A lease is a purchase of a vehicle. You are negotiating the purchase price. Nothing else. Everything else is set. So why negotiate payment. It is a car buying trick to confuse the buyer.

A base model is not a car that the dealership can sell very easily. Offer to buy the car for $39,500 +++, and then you also get the $2000 rebate (after tax) as well.

Considering I was offered a $53500 M for $626 + tax with only 1st pmt down, and with 15000 miles, you should be able to do at least $110/month better than me.

tvhmiami · July 2008

Thanks for the reply.

Here is what I plugged in on the lease calculator:

MSRP: $43900
Base Cap Cost: $39500
Costs Added to Lease: $865
Cap Cost Reduction: $2000
Adjusted Cap Cost: $38365
Money Factor: .00091
Term: 39 months.

These numbers give me $474.55 per month. Can that be right?

lsachs · July 2008

Did the 1000/2000 conquest/loyalty money get extended or was it replaced with another program?

What are the residual / mf's for m35x for 24 and 39 months?

Thanks as always for all the help.

Larry

ghstudio · July 2008

yes, it can be right...but without that downpayment (which you should not make) you are really paying $528 a month,

Instead of giving that $2000 to the dealer up front, why don't you do 4 extra security deposits which will drop your MF to .00051 and your monthly cost will be $504 per month (and of course you get the security deposts back at the end). You save $24 a month just by loaning infiniti $2200. Over the life of the lease, you save 39x$24 or $936. Where else can you earn $936 on $2200 over 39 months?

Let's take the two cases...your $2000 down case...pay the dealer $20525 over 39 months.....vs my case where you pay the dealer $19656. Which do you prefer.

koctailz · July 2008

I just rec'd a call from local dealer and they indicate they still have the $2000 loyalty money in play for July so I assume the $1000 conquest is too. She indicates there are other incentives as well. She indicated they have many cars on the lot and this is a very very good time to buy...for what that is worth. But it does sound like buyers are in the driver's seat right now. She also indicated financing is as low as 0.9% for purchase. Hopefully that will translte into a lower mf.

vgx · July 2008

Hey Car_man,

Just wanted to know if you could confirm lease numbers for July. I'm thinking about a M35 RWD with Tech and Sport Packages. If possible, I'd like to know what the residuals and money factors are for a 24 and 36 month lease, both with 12,000 miles per year.

Thanks in advance for your help!!
~V

koctailz · July 2008

on edmunds incentives page the infiniti m35 now shows a $3k and a $2k loyalty bonus eff 7/8 running through the beginning of september. both are listed as loyalty only bonuses. nothing about conquest money. im a little confused now.

tvhmiami · July 2008

Instead of working with me on closing the gap, the dealer told me that the July 8th increase in the "customer loyalty" incentive to $3,000 did not apply to leases. Should I be insulted by the lack of respect for leasing customers?

Then, to add injury to insult, the dealer informed me that the residual value on an M35 after 39 months had fallen from $22,000 in late June to $21,300 in early July.

Consequently, they increased the payments by $18 per month.

Can you believe the chuptzah? (Pardon my Spanish.)

koctailz · July 2008

i find it hard to believe that all of a sudden the loyalty cash does not apply to leases? i would advise you to consult different dealers in the area. i would like to know what others are finding out about this. infiniti sales are down on the m35, that is why they are offering the incentives.

ghstudio · July 2008

I just got off the phone with my dealer....yes, the cash went up on purchases only...and the lease rates got "ugly" (the dealer's words). I don't have the details...

koctailz · July 2008

so is it still $2k loyalty than for leases but $3k for purchase only?

i know residuals drop as year progresses so that maybe is behind some of the "ugly" lease numbers.

Does anyone have the July MF and Residual for M35 with Tech Package on 36 mo 12k a year lease?

topgun7 · July 2008

Car_man or anyone, do you know what is the money factor and residual for M45, 2 yr 12kmi or 15K mi in California? the 3K loyalty cash is interesting. According to Edmund, it is for both purchase and lease.

leon_0905 · July 2008

Hi, everyone.
Stopped by at dealer today to talk a few numbers about M35 2008.
MSRP $47300, haven't talked about cap cost yet.
What I got is 24 months / 59% resd / .00102 or 36 months / 49% resd / .00164.

Do these numbers seem realistic? Anyone knows current figures for July?

How negotiable money factor is (if any)? I know I can reduce it with MSD, and I plan to, but what else determines MF? Does excellent credit score reduce MF?

Also, dealer said there is no incentives / rebate for leasing (I'm new to Infinity). Is that true? There is $4000 manufacturer to dealer incentive, should I insist on reducing the cap cost because of that?

And last one, assuming I'm ready to pull a plug this week, what is the realistic cap cost for $47300 MSRP?

Thanks

Location: Rockville, MD

udzone · July 2008

I'll be very interested in what you find out. I'm also in MD, and there are 2 Infiniti dealers in the Baltimore area I'll be visiting this weekend. Did you check out Nationwide yet? They are advertising $479 a month on a 39 month lease with no money down.

Last November my brother got an M35x from them for $422 a month for 42 months with $2610 down cap reduction.

jlr5 · July 2008

I'm very new to negotiating a lease on an M35x. I've been reading the postings on this site and have been very interested in what I'm reading but to be honest still a little confused on some of it. I've put out request for quotes from the edmunds site to dealerships in three large cities, Chicago, St. Louis and Indianapolis. I live centrally located to all. In talking to the dealerships I've been upfront about comparing offers from all locations and that I do not have a problem with going to any of the three areas to purchase the car. I've told them I'm interested in a 39 mo. lease with 15k/yr, no money down, and I want to use the $2000 customer loyalty towards multiple security deposits (my husband leases a G35 that expires early Sept.). The dealerships I've talked with so far say they don't know anything about MSD. They've told me they've never heard of it and that nothing can buy down your MF. It's all the same through Infiniti. I've also asked that they send me the residual value used as well as the MF. I would appreciate anyone who can enlighten me on this. Have I misunderstood how this works? Any adivse with negotiating a deal would be appreciated!

finadv · July 2008

You might try https://www.checkbook.org/. They are a non profit that will get quotes from at least five different dealers in your area. It appears that they are in the Chicago area. For leases, it costs about $300. They got me $100 under invoice and then I tacked on the $1,000 Conquest for a total of $1,100 under invoice. No work on my part, they called all the dealers and gave me the results from each one. I called the lowest one and closed the deal on the phone in about 10 minutes. They did accept 6 MSDs which got me down to .0001 or .24%. So I would suggest trying the service and then calling around about MSDs.

Good Luck!

ghstudio · July 2008

JLR5....you have apparently managed to find some of the most inept finance managers and/or salesmen. MSD's are part of the standard infiniti lease program. Tell them to pick up their leasing procedures manual and actually read it. Each MSD will reduce your MF by .0001 up to a max of 9 (I think). The only thing you really can negotiate is the capitalized cost...and elimination of any dealer administrative fees. You can't change residuals.

As far as applying the conquest cash to MSD's, I don't think you can do that....it must be deducted from the capitalized cost.

jlr5 · July 2008

Thank you so much for the info on the MSD. I thought that's what I read in these postings.

Can you explain what the conquest money is? Is that the $2000 rebate? And, I see that Infiniti is offering a rebate to the dealership in the amount of $3000 for Marketing Support. Is that done on each car sold? Can I negotiate with this figure?

Thank you again for the info.

ghstudio · July 2008

yes, the marketing money (conquest money) is part of the deal and most, if not all, of it should go to you. In my lease, started last month, the capitalized cost was the invoice price on my M35 less the $2000 returning customer conquest cash. They still make a profit on holdback so it's a fair deal for everyone.

You do have to find out how much conquest cash is available for leases...it's not always the same as for a cash deal.

lthaley756 · July 2008

The $2000 conquest money ended July 7

July 8 began a new incentive program of $3000 or 0.9% financing-- you may have one or the other but not both

jlr5 · July 2008

Please forgive my ignorance but let me know if I have this right.

I should negotiate to have the $3000 Marketing Support that's paid to the dealership from Infinite, as part of my lease. I should negotiate to have this applied to the lease after reaching the final sale amount for the car, which should be at least the invoice price or less.

I'm still confused on the $2000 customer loyalty cash, which I qualify for. In a prior post I thought you said the buyer should take this rebate, do not give it to the dealer, and use it to make MSD with. But, if I'm reading your answer correctly this time are you saying it cannot be used in that way. It should be used as a cap cost reduction?

jlr5 · July 2008

I just received this offer and since I'm still so new at this can anyone tell me what they think of it - good, bad? I did ask about making multiple security deposits and that is not included in this. I do have another email from this dealship telling me they have good news on the MSD and want me to call. Would like to know how this deal looks before calling back.

 Options - Nav Tech, Xenon head lights with AFS, trunk mat (vehicle detail attached)
 MSRP - $50,670
 Cap Cost - $44,999 includes $2000.00 Lease Infiniti Owner Loyalty Cash
 Term - 39 months
 Yearly mileage - 15,000 miles
 Downpayment - $0
 Residual - 49%
 Money Factor - 0.00116
 Local Tax Rate - 8.75%
 Monthly payment - $720.12
 Total Initial Payment - $1082.12 (includes Processing fee, and Illinois licensing fee)
 Processing fee - $189.00
 Illinois Licensing fee - $173.00

Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful!!

jlr5 · July 2008

Sorry I've made so many postings but I'm receiving offers back from dealerships and would really like to know what you think of these. Here's the second one from the same dealership.
.
 Options - Nav Tech and splash guards
 MSRP - $49,025
 Cap Cost - $45,499 ( $2000 rebate to customer)
 Term - 39 months
 Yearly mileage - 15,000 miles
 Downpayment - $0
 Security Deposit - $750 times six = $4,500.00
 Residual - 49%
 Money Factor - 0.00056 (reflects reduction due to extra security deposit)
 Local Tax Rate - 8.75%
 Monthly payment - $623.88
 Total Initial Payment - $5485.88 (includes first payment, Processing fee, Illinois licensing fee and security deposit)
 Processing fee - $189.00
 Illinois Licensing fee - $173.00
 Security Deposit - $4500.00 fully refundable at end of lease

The salesman at this dealership thanked me for informing him about the msd. He said he didn't know a thing about it and planned on calling a couple of other interested buyers to let them know. So.....thank you to all of you who informed me about it!

ghstudio · July 2008

The invoice price on that car (including shipping) is 45714 according to Edmunds....so your capitalized cost should be very close to 43714 which would bring your payments down to $571.67. So my take is that you now discuss "real" capitalized cost numbers ... and you offer to pay invoice and then take off the $2000. (you might be a little more tactful). Forget all the other numbers...you can't change them. Don't focus on the monthly payment...focus on the capitalized cost to get the best deal.

Two other points....1) why only 6 msd's...I think you could go to 9, if you are comfortable with the concept. And 2) when you get down to the "I'm ready to sign", make it "I'm ready to sign if you make that $189 "administrative fee" disappear" (it's just profit to the dealer.

Finally, the MSD amount is wrong. Each MSD is the monthly payment (without taxes) using the base MF (without the reductions) rounded up to the nearest $50...and as I calculate the lease, even with the numbers above, I find that the monthly payment with no msd adjustment is 660 so each msd should be $700, not 750. Most dealers forget to take out the taxes when calculating the MSD amount.

When this is done, are you going to take me for a ride

jlr5 · July 2008

So should I be taking the $2000 customer loyalty rebate off the capitalized cost or have it paid to me to use on the msd? On the quote I got, the 2000 was being paid to me. The reason I'm looking at 6 msds is because the bank account says no more!!

That little thing always gets in the way! I'm not sure I could do 6 msd's without the $2000. Might have to back that down to four but I'm a little scared of what that will do the monthly payment.

The dealer is claiming he's selling me this car at cost because I told him about the msd's. I know you can't believe everything they tell you which is why I keep coming back here.

I noticed that the dealer had figured the msds high. I'm doing all of this over the internet so I will discuss that with him.

LOVE this message board! I certainly owe you a ride for all the great advise you're giving me!

leon_0905 · July 2008

The salesman in dealership told me today that since I don't currently own Infinity, no rebate. But if I bring a friend or family member who does they can probably apply the $2k rebate to the lease. Anybody heard of that?

ghstudio · July 2008

Last month's conquest cash was $2000 for current infiniti owners and $1000 for everyone else. Don't know if that changed this month....

lthaley756 · July 2008

The promotion this month is .09% financing or $3000 cash back

As to conquest cash the $2000/1000 has expired.

You must present your current registration to demonstrate ownership. A copy of this is returned to INF. to trigger dealer reimbursement

ghstudio · July 2008

MSD's don't make a big difference on your monthy payments....one MSD may reduce your monthly payment by $10 or so. The payback is that at the end of 36 months, you have paid $360 less because you loan infiniti $600. So, the choice is to give Infiniti the money up front and you don't get it back....or you use that same money for an MSD. In one case you have nothing at the end....the other you saved $360. Same $'s.

But..if you don't have the cash for a downpayment then don't do MSD's....it's just a better way to use that cash when leasing.

Now the other case is for someone who has money in a bank and could make a loan for the length of the lease. If you keep the money in a CD, you might earn $75 over the same 36 months. What if I could loan that money out and save $360. I think loaning it makes sense....that's about 12% on your money vs 3-4%.

Don't stretch to make MSD's....but consider them, depending on your financial situation. Most leasees pay money up front, but they shouldn't...they should use that money for MSD's.

leon_0905 · July 2008

OK, here are the numbers:

M35 RWD with Tech package
MSRP - $47515 (includes destination, btw Edmunds is off by $500)
Gross Cap - $43515 (invoice)
Addt - $599 Acquisition fee and $99 document fee (still working to waive it)
Reductions - none (no incentives for non-Infinity owner, manufacturer to dealer cash only applies to financing) ;
Length - 39 months
Down Payment - 0
12K miles (also looking at 10K which probably will increase residual value by 1%)
Residual - 48%
MF - .00147
MSD - 9
Final MF - 0.00057
Lease payment - $568
Tax (MD 6% $2610 / 39) $67
MONTHLY LEASE PAYMENT - $635 (with 10K - $623)

What do you think?
Any suggestions to bring the total down?

ghstudio · July 2008

I should have asked...have you looked at a shorter lease. You may find that the 24 month lease actually costs you less per month (total cost/24) than the 39 mo lease. Have them run the same case...but for 24 months.

My second hint....consider an M35x instead of an M35...different MF's and residuals. Last month it was $50 a month less to lease an X than the exact same car in the base version.

leon_0905 · July 2008

Thanks for suggestions.
Already checked that: 24 months would be mid $700, a little too much.
M35x was only 2% higher residual and higher MF, so the monthly payment was much higher. Besides, my wife doesn't like M35x, too firm for her and interior does not look as nice as M35.

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

Hey vgx. Infiniti Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2008 Infiniti M35 RWD with 12,000 miles per year are .00002 and 59%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease are .00064 and 49%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

You're right, koctailz. The owner loyalty cash is $2,000 for leases and $3,000 for purchases. Infiniti Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2008 M35 2WD with 12,000 miles per year are .00064 and 49%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

Hey topgun7. Here you go. Infiniti Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2008 M45 with 15,000 miles per year are an amazing .00003 and 59%, respectively. The residual value for a lease with only 12,000 miles per year is 1% higher.

I believe that the owner loyalty cash that is available on this model is $3,000 on purchases, but only $2,000 on leases.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2008

Hi jlr5. Unfortunately, the $3,000 dealer cash that Infiniti is currently providing on the 2008 M35 is NOT compatible with its special lease program. You can have one or the other, but not both. The $2,000 owner loyalty cash IS compatible with the lease program though. Use it to reduce the capitalized cost of your car.

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leon_0905 · July 2008

Car_man,

Do you know what are the rates for 39 months for M35 RWD?
Is reducing miles from 12K to 10K increase residual value by 1%?
Also, I'm thinking of doing 41 or 42 months instead of 39 simply because I need my lease to end either December or January if I lease now. Do you know what the rates would be in this case?

Btw, do dealers suppose to use the official IFS rates or they can inflate them?
I'm getting different rates in different dealerships and they are not same rates as was just posted: .00064 for 36 months. They gave me .00134 and said this is the official rate. How do I make them use correct rate?

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