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Apparently, I had some outdated information. How long has Mazda been using Chase as their captive? Is this recent? Thanks for correcting me.
John
Having Chase works out better for Mazda because Chase is a real bank, not a sub prime institution like Ford Credit, so, buying down rates to 0% and buying down leases don't cost them as much.
MAZDA3 s Sport 5-door Automatic Transmission
$209/Month, 36-Month Lease/36,000 miles, $1,803 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees.
To get this deal, the cap cost is $18386, which seems like a pretty good deal for a MSRP of $20485. I also have a $500 return customer credit. How does it factor in?
Do you think I can get this deal with no money down, and have that $1803 spread out through the 36 month lease? Any tips or things to watch out for would be really helpful. I'm making my lease purchase on August 13th.
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12k miles per year and 36 months. (Zero Down)
MSRP $21,235.00 plus tax and license and fees
Residual Amount $12,953.35
Cap Cost $ 19,659.00 plus tax and license and fees
Base Payment $246.24
Total Payment Including Taxes $270.25
The Cap Cost is what is throwing me off.
When I calculated the payment with zero down, I got this
What would have been upfront: $1803 - 209 (first months payment) = $1594/36 = $44.28
Monthly before tax: $209
Total before tax: $253.28
The dealer still quoted me for a lower monthly than my math, even though the cap cost of the vehicle is higher (MazdaUSA.com said $18,368 + 750 (destination charge) = $19119). How does this make sense? Am I doing some math wrong?
ps: Internet Advertised Deal
MAZDA3 s Sport 5-door Automatic Transmission
$209/Month, 36-Month Lease, $1,803 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees.
Hide Details
MSRP $20,485 plus $750 destination charge. Lease payment based on capitalized cost of $18,386. Total payments of $7,524. No security deposit required. Dealer participation required. Tax, license, title, fees, options and insurance extra. Not all lessees will qualify for lowest payment through participating lender. Some payments higher, some lower based on residency and other factors. Lessee responsible for excess wear and mileage over 36,000 at $0.15/mile. Purchase option at lease end for $12,953 plus applicable tax. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 8/31/2010. Residency restrictions apply.
Unfortunately, the Mazda lease Ad is very vague. For example, it states that 1,803 is due at lease signing which includes 1st payment and Acq Fee. Well, 1803 less 209 gives 1,594. I doubt that 1,594 is the acq fee as this would be extremely excessive. Nothing is stated regarding down payment (i.e., cap reduction). The Ad also suggests that the residual factor is 61% and that the money factor is 0.00185.
You made the following remarks...
"The Cap Cost is what is throwing me off. When I calculated the payment with zero down, I got this
What would have been upfront: $1803 - 209 (first months payment) = $1594/36 = $44.28
Monthly before tax: $209
Total before tax: $253.28"
It appears that you're trying to fold the 1,594 into the 209 payment from the Ad. If so, this is what I get...
P = 0.00185 x 1,594 + 1,594 / 36
= 47.23
208.89 (not 209) + 47.23
= 256.12
I'm sure you were just doing a quick calculation. Close enough!
What your dealer did and what's in the Ad may be two different things; although, the resdial factor and money factor should be the same if you have excellent credit. Did your dealer include the 1,594 in the 19,659 cap cost? The problem is that we have no idea what the 1,594 represents. But, for purposes of discussion, let's pretend that this amount is the acq fee and that there is no cap reduction. Then, the Ad's cap cost of 18,386 would also represent the vehicle selling price. And so, the 18,386 does not include the acquisition fee. Instead, this fee is paid at lease signing as the Ad suggests.
In order for your dealer to get a base payment of 246.24, assuming the money factor of 0.00185 and residual of 12,953.35 are both correct, the adjusted cap cost must be 19,646.82 not 19,659.00.
Again, I have no idea whether or not your dealer included the acq fee (whatever that is $750???) or a dealer doc fee in the 19,659 cap cost.
In a typical lease, here's how the numbers flow...
MSRP
Sell Price (aka Agreed Upon Value) (S)
Amounts financed (A) (i.e., capitalized)
Gross Cap (G)
Cap Reductions (D) (cash, net trade-in allowance, etc)
Adjusted Cap (C)
Residual Factor
Residual Value (R) (Res Factor x MSRP)
Money Factor (F)
Term (N)
Monthly Payment (P)
G = S + A
C = G - D
P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N
The info the dealer gave you is vague and there is information missing (acq fee, DMV fees, dealer doc fees), itemization of the 1,803. So, here's what I suggest...
Ask the dealer for their lease worksheet. Every dealer in the nation is familiar with this document as the fund provider requires them to be submitted along with the lease agreement. So, please, don't let them play dumb and tell you otherwise. This is a computer generated document that eliminates confusion and guess work and will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Allowing the dealer to control the deal will only end up costing you more money in most instances.
There is absolutely no reason for the dealer to refuse to give you a copy. If you like, you may email it to me at
diffeq@zoominternet.net
and I will be happy to analyze it for you. DO NOT let them read numbers to you over the phone as that's a pizz poor albeit sloppy way to do business. Tell them you want a hard copy of the lease worksheet.
Once I have that, it will be a lot easier to answer your questions. Otherwise, I'm just guessing... my crystal ball was stolen.
John
Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction. Sales tax, dealer fees and registration are extra. The manufacturer does not have to itemize what the $1,803 consists of.
"Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction."
"and cap cost reduction"???
Really??? Where does it say this??? How would I, as a consumer reading this Ad, know that?
I'm well aware that Mazda does not have to itemize the 1,803 in their Ads. However, it has been my experience that most national lease promo Ads do. Although possible and, perhaps, even likely, please tell me where the Ad explicitly states that the 1,803 includes a cap cost reduction? Please don't draw inferences or make assumptions. Here's the Ad...
$209/Month, 36-Month Lease, $1,803 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees.
Hide Details
MSRP $20,485 plus $750 destination charge. Lease payment based on capitalized cost of $18,386. Total payments of $7,524. No security deposit required. Dealer participation required. Tax, license, title, fees, options and insurance extra. Not all lessees will qualify for lowest payment through participating lender. Some payments higher, some lower based on residency and other factors. Lessee responsible for excess wear and mileage over 36,000 at $0.15/mile. Purchase option at lease end for $12,953 plus applicable tax. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 8/31/2010. Residency restrictions apply.
John
The last time I got a lease, I worked my way from this number forward, instead of going backwards, like I'm doing now. That is what kind of confused me. The $19659 (if this is the adjusted cap cost) he quoted me was $278 under the dealer invoice according to edmunds.com, which seems decent, no?
I asked for that lease worksheet and I'll get back to you. Thanks again. This is an amazing help.
According to your forumla...if I were to get the dealer to match the cap costed stated in the advertisement $18,386, the adjusted cap cost would be $19136 with the $750 included, right?
So plugging those numbers in, I got:
P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N
P = .00185 x (19136 + 12953.35) + (19136 - 12953.35)/36
P = 171.74 + 59.56
P = $231.30 plus tax
does this ad up? or did I use the formula incorrectly?
The adjusted capcost has nothing to do with the MSRP. The destination charge is part of the MSRP and so, the adj cap couldn't care less what the destination charge is as one has nothing to do with the other. So, forget about the $750 destination charge. The only role that the MSRP plays, in leasing, is that it's used to determine the residual value.
You always establish selling price first. And, from that point forward, everything else falls right into place. If you re-visit my post, you'll see the following equations...
Gross Cap = Sell Price + Amounts Capitalitalized
Adj Cap = Gross Cap - Cap Reductions (D)
You should research Edmunds to determine the invoice price as well as all cash incentives available. Also, check overstock at zag.com to determine competitive low prices in your area. That will give you an idea of a good starting selling price to begin negotiations. Always start low. Remember, you can always come up but never down. Next, determine what items you want to pay upfront and those items that you want to capitalize in the lease. I don't advise making a down payment. Having done all that, the adj cap is real easy to deteremine.
Your payment of 231.30 looks close. I got 231.11. Looking forward to receiving the lease worksheet, then we'll craft a one-page lease proposal.
Best,
John
Thanks!
Usually they just say "$X,XXX due at signing, excludes taxes, dealer fees" I very rarely see one itemized on how the manufacturer came to whatever number they are advertising.
Please don't draw inferences or make assumptions.
What inferences am I making? Mazda is implying cap cost is part of the money down. They do not have to disclose it. My words may have implied that they are disclosing it, but, they are not, nor do they have to.
I'm not quite sure what your issue is....
"What inferences am I making? Mazda is implying cap cost is part of the money down. They do not have to disclose it. My words may have implied that they are disclosing it, but, they are not, nor do they have to".
"Mazda is implying cap cost is part of the money down"???
This doesn't make any sense ("capcost is part of money down"??? What the heck does that mean?)
From your post #623, you stated...
"Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction. Sales tax, dealer fees and registration are extra. The manufacturer does not have to itemize what the $1,803 consists of."
"Mazda is saying the $1,803 due at signing includes the acq fee, first months payment and cap cost reduction."
"and cap cost reduction"???
Really??? Where does it say this??? How would I, as a consumer reading this Ad, know that the $1,803 implies or suggests a capcost reduction??? I wouldn't! .
That's my issue. To be candid, my forensic skills at dissecting lease promo ads are second to none.
I can't understand how you can infer, imply or suggest that the $1803 captures a cap reduction as none was stated, inferred, suggested, or, otherwise, implied. I'm into semantics and linguistics big time. I'm not suggesting that you are, but, Americans are, generally, pizz poor communicators. In fact, many of them border on being downright illiterate. Just read some of the posts in these forums. Wow!
John
It doesn't, nor does the ad have to. That is my point.
I am telling you the $1,803 includes cap cost. When you take out the acq fee of $595 and first months payment of $XXX, you are left with a balance. Where do you think that balance goes? Cap cost reduction...
You're absolutely right! ADS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE AN ITEMIZATION OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT DUE AT LEASE SIGNING. I never ever claimed that ADS are required to detail such disclosures. However, the FRBB's Reg M does require full disclosure in any consumer retail crafted lease agreement where the total cost of the lease is less than $25,000. The only items that are not required disclosures, under Reg M, is the money factor and residual factor.
"I am telling you the $1,803 includes cap cost. When you take out the acq fee of $595 and first months payment of $XXX, you are left with a balance. Where do you think that balance goes? Cap cost reduction... "
The $1,803 MAY include a cap cost reduction and, most likely, does. However, my point is that there is nothing IN THE AD to indicate that it does, in fact, include a cap cost reduction! But I do agree that the balance is, in all likelihood, a cap reduction as I can't imagine what else it could possibly be. And so, your conclusion is not unreasonable. But, I prefer not to make that assumption. Consumers would be well advised to ask a reputable and competent Mazda dealership for details as suggested in the Ad. Making assumptions often gets people into trouble. :sick:
Consumers would be well advised to ask a reputable and competent Mazda dealership for details
aviboy97 is a reputable and competent Mazda dealer... I think he failed to point that out...
regards,
kyfdx
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"Seems like we have a mis-communication issue....aviboy97 is a reputable and competent Mazda dealer... "
Whether aviboy is or isn't a reputable and competent Mazda dealer is not the issue. The issue is this...
How would I, as a consumer, know that the $1,803 includes a cap reduction JUST BY READING THE AD ALONE? Fact is, I wouldn't know because there isn't any cap reduction indicated in the AD nor is there any requirement that the $1,803 be itemized or that a cap reduction must explicitly be disclosed. The AD, alone, does not explicitly indicate a cap reduction even though the $1,803 may, in fact, include a cap reduction.
Regards,
John
I thought you wanted the answer...
Ads are just ads.... they don't mean anything, actually...
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To some extent, you're absolutely right! However, there is much useful information that can be gleaned from many, but not all, lease promo Ads such as the money factor buy rate , residual factor, residual value, acq fee, applicable lease end charges, term, etc.
The advertised payments, cap reduction, amount due at lease signing, and net cap cost don't mean squat. Unfortunately, many people erroneously think that all the terms of the Ad are etched in stone and take them literally. Nothing couldn't be further from the truth.
So these auto dealers are being stubborn about getting me a lease worksheet. It's not just one of them...but all of them are being stubborn and don't really address me request.
I did visit a dealer and got these numbers:
The net cost of the vehicle was $19,137 and he didn't really want to honor my full $500 Mazda credit for return customer. He gave me the numbers of $19,087 as the net cost of the vehicle for a 36 month/ 12k a year lease and insisted this was the lowest he could do.
He seemed stubborn on the $500 Mazda credit, so that would make the vehicle $19,587 before the credit, right? This doesn't seem to be as good because I was expecting $18,637, but his $19087 for the overall net cost is the lowest I've gotten thus far. Do you have any thoughts on how this credit should have been factored in?
At $19,087, the monthly was $228.95 before tax, and I ran that through the formula you gave me and that seemed to work out roughly. He said that $301 was due at signing for all the paper work, DMV fees and licensing.
Also, does anyone know what the minimum insurance is for the lease? My first lease was 15/30/10 but this guy didn't seem to know the answer. Thanks for all your help!
Your mistake is that you're allowing the dealer to control the deal. You should create a one-page lease proposal. It will save lots of time, money, and aggravation. Email me at
diffeq@zoominternet.net
if you would like a few sample proposals.
Regarding insurance, that should be specified in the lease agreement. Ask the F&I guy for a copy of a blank lease agreement. Don't ask a human being at the dealership because chances are they don't know.
John
If by $500 Mazda credit, you mean the owner loyalty Mazda is offering, they cannot deny you of it. It is considered at rebate, and not taken off the actual selling price. I would ask to speak to a sales manager or general manager if they will not show you the lease breakdown.
Also, does anyone know what the minimum insurance is for the lease?
I believe Chase requires 100/300/100 for coverage.
I finally got my lease. Thanks delta737h and aviboy97 for all your help. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a lease breakdown in time but after reading over the sample proposals and all your infos, maybe I could have gotten a better deal, but I'm happy enough with what I got.
My numbers were as follows (from what I see on the lease)
Mazda3 5-door HB automatic s-sport (MSRP $21235)
36 month/36 thousand miles
The adjusted cap cost was $19013.16
This included my first month, all my DMV fee's licensing etc etc, so I had a zero drive off.
I then pay $250 after tax for 35 month.
I think the paperwork said that the agreed apon price of the car was $19513.16, but there was a cap cost reduction around $1000 included in a total of $1850 due upfront, which the dealer marked as a cash rebate, so I still paid nothing on drive off.
I can get the firm numbers for anyone that was to analyze this even more. Considering that I was crunched on time cuz my lease was ending, I feel I got a good deal.
Thanks again for your help.
-Joe
Manual
24/month
12K/yr
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian
Mazda's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2011 Mazda3s Sedan Sport with 12,000 miles per year are .00246 and 75%, respectively.
Car_man
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Also, is there required scheduled maintenance which Mazda will force you to get and pay for? Thank you so much for your help.
There is no way to guage whether a 36 month, 12K mile lease at $255 per month with $0 up-front is a good deal or not. Too much information is missing. Many people focus on payment alone when leasing and that's a HUGE mistake. You need to determine the following...
MSRP
Sell Price called Agreed Upon Value (negotiable)
Transaction Costs (i.e., dealer doc fee, acquisition fee)
Cost of Money (e.g., money factor)
Residual Factor
Residual Value (Res Factor x MSRP)
Pre-Tax Monthly Payment
I suggest you educate yourself about the basics of leasing including lease terminology (e.g., gross capitalized cost, capitalized cost reduction, adjusted capitalized cost, money factor, residual value, etc.) as well as how to compute lease payments. Lack of knowledge in this area is like putting a guppy in a tank with a great white shark... the guppy won't even realize that it's been swallowed whole!
Hope this helps.
John
-Agreed upon value (Buyout is $12,179.85)
-transaction costs ($745 – set by Mazda, non-negotiable)
-Residual factor 67%
-Money factor .00232
-pre tax monthly payment. All taxes incl. in payment – this is set by Mn law regarding leases
Terms of lease are 12k miles a year, $0 down, 36mo.
Please help me understand if I am getting a good deal or if I need to continue to bargain. Thank you so much.
-Agreed upon value (Buyout is $12,179.85)
-transaction costs ($745 – set by Mazda, non-negotiable)
-Residual factor 67%
-Money factor .00232
-pre tax monthly payment. All taxes incl. in payment – this is set by Mn law regarding leases
When I have turned leased cars in there was never a discussion of the maintenance done, they just inspected to make sure there was nothing more then normal wear and tear.
Since Chase, not Mazda, is the company you are leasing a new Mazda from there might be different lease turn in criteria.
2005 G35 Sedan2007 G35 Sedan
2008 G37 Sedan
2010 G37 Coupe
2012 G37 Sedan
2014 Q50 RWD
2017 Q60 3.0t RWD
2018 QX60 RWD
Mazda's October buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 Mazda3 i Touring Sedan with an automatic transmission and 15,000 miles per year are .00232 and 63%, respectively.
The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '11 Mazda3 s Sport Sedan AT are .00232 and 66%.
Car_man
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Thanks in advance!
Car_man
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In your opinion. For the person that gets the itch to get a new car every three years and continually rolls their negative equity into a new loan leasing is the way to go.
2005 G35 Sedan2007 G35 Sedan
2008 G37 Sedan
2010 G37 Coupe
2012 G37 Sedan
2014 Q50 RWD
2017 Q60 3.0t RWD
2018 QX60 RWD
2011 Mazda3 S Sport Automatic
Vehicle Sales Price: $19857 (invoice cost and destination fee)
Sales Tax: $1092 ( I live in WI)
Title Fee:$298 (not sure if this is correct for my state)
Cash Rebate:$1871
Cash Down:$0
Lease Term:36 months 45000 miles
Residual value: $14160 (taken from edmunds true cost to own)
Money factor: .0016
Acquisition Fees: $0
Security Deposit: $200 (automatically put in, but would actually be $0)
Total loan amount:$18644.00
Payment with tax: $186.77
Am I shooting to high? Thanks!
The deal i just saw Mazda advertising is $199/mo with zero down. Again, didn't look at details, but my guess is that is for 12k/yr and a base model with auto trans.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
But, my local Mazda dealer is advertising the 2011 Mazda 3 for $233 down and $159/mo..
1) 42 month lease
2) 10K/year
3) Doesn't give the "due at signing" amount, other than to state there is no security deposit required (so.. is there an acq.fee due? don't know.. Is it $233 due at signing, or $233 + $159?)
4) Obviously a stripped model (includes A/C!)
Now, with the caveat that 42 months is a long time to lease a car.. let's look at worst case.
a) Actual due at signing may be: $233 +$159 +595 (acq.fee) = $987
b) 3% lower residual to bump to 15K/yr mileage allowance (add $600)
c) $233 +$595 +$600 = $1428 / 42 mo. = $34/mo.
d) Total lease cost: $159 + $34 = $193 +tax..
That's still very, very cheap to lease any car at 15K/yr... and, who knows...maybe the acq.fee is included in the ad price.. If so, knock $15/mo off..
regards,
kyfdx
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.holidaygmcars.com/fond-du-lac-new-2011-mazda-mazda3-vid68956945-1m65
I would want to add fog lights and rear spoiler to this one.
http://www.holidaygmcars.com/fond-du-lac-new-2011-mazda-mazda3-vid69247836-1m71
Option #2 from the same dealership.
http://www.holidaygmcars.com/inventory-results.aspx?standardmake=EQ,Mazda&standa- rdmodel=EQ,MAZDA3&standardtrim=EQ,4dr%20Sdn%20Auto%20s%20Sport&&selectedcat=new&- categories=new,preowned&page=1
The option I based my OP on.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2011/mazda/mazda3/101347656/optionsresults.html?actio- n=2
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2011/mazda/mazda3/101347658/optionsresults.html?actio- n=2
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I believe that Mazda is currently providing a $400 cash incentive and waiving the first month's payment on leases of this car.
Car_man
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