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WTH does these have to do with Toyota in 2009, declining or advancing.
Business is such a fun activity. Just when things are cruising along WHAMMM!!! Something intrudes and slaps ya upside the head. Those that can't maintain a sense of balance end up in bankruptcy court. Those that can handle the body slams take the bruises and cuts ,deal with the issues then move forward.
Sales at Toyota seem to be holding steady and even increasing along with the rest of the industry and the losses apparently have been stemmed. Now there are new issues to deal with, primarily the loss of revenue on imports to the US then the bad press from the Unexplained Acceleration claims. Such is life in business.
I hope so for safety's sake.
I still think a physical electrical kill switch for the computer also is needed. I think a key or similar kind of switch is needed in case of computer failure, whether or not computer runaway is found to play a role in any problems. I am just concerned a brake override may still not stop a runaway computer which doesn't react to software inputs, such as the brake pedal-depressed sensor.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Right now in every vehicle segment the mean values have risen dramatically IMO. While there might be a laggard or two nearly every offering is only slightly different than any other offering. They hybrids are somewhat the exception...for the moment.
The subcompacts?
The compacts?
The midsizers?
The few large cars?
The compact crossovers?
The midsized crossovers?
Right now the major players, with only a few exceptions, have very solid entries in every category. This is the bulk of the market.
We've seen GM fall from 40% to 30% to 20% in market share. Toyota is approaching 20% here. I think that in the future no maker will ever get more than 25% marketshare again unless there's a huge merger. Since marketshare growth is going to be beyond the reach of nearly all makers the key focus is going to have to be staying ahead of the curve in technology and satisfaction in order not to lose marketshare.
Right now I see Hyundai pushing the envelope, making others react. Chrysler is in a world of hurts. This is Hyundai's prime target IMO with a few GM defectors mad about bailouts and the loss of their Saturn/Pontiac/Saab nameplates. However Hyundai is simply too small with too small a network to threaten displacing GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda and Nissan for the near term.
As for government mandates, they make vehicles more expensive which results in manufacturers having to cut corners somewhere to keep prices down, and it means people will be less able to afford new vehicles and will keep their older, less safe cars longer.
Government takes every problem and makes it worse.
Well if that is what you really believe then we have a fundamental disagreement on the premise of our argument and will never reach any kind of compromise. Sure Government can make a problem worse just like any other individual or organization but they don't always make a problem worse.
If you really believe what you are saying then seat belts, crumple zones, safety glass and numerous other safety features wouldn't have come into wide use till the later 80s and even then they would have probably been optional on many cars.
Right now it is really the IIHS driving safety improvements now and not even the US government. The US gov't standards are relatively low compared to the IIHS standards and the IIHS is a private institution funded by insurance companies. Euro NCAP has more stringent standards then the US gov't too so if you want to sell in Europe you need to meet those standards.
Toyota and Honda are truly concerned about Hyundai, as well as everyone else should be. They are analogous to the Japanese manufacturers in decades past, but are accelerating at a much faster pace. Quality is no longer an issue with Hyundai - just ask an owner, and not those who've never owned one.
In this market, in auto sales, they are small. At seventh in sales they have a lot of ground to make up against at least five very capable high quality competitors. I can see Hyundai growing by whatever Chrysler loses.
While the situation might seem analagous to the growth of Toyota and Honda and Nissan in the 80s and 90s the key difference is that noone is laughing at Hyundai like the Big 3 did about the Japanese competitors. Everyone is taking Hyundai seriously as they should.
What that means is that noone is simply going let Hyundai walk in and take over a couple of segments like Toyota and Honda and Nissan did in small and midsized cars. Everyone is going to fight tooth and nail. Hyundai's job is a lot tougher.
Right now Hyundai can gain sales by undercutting the rest on price. They don't like having to do that but it's given them attention and gotten some fannys in seats. But this comes at a price. Hyundai suffers financially in comparison to the others simply because to win sales they have to accept less profit. This is not a solid long term strategy. Consider that the Camry outsells the Sonata by about 3:1 and it generates $1000 additional per vehicle sold. This must gall the bosses in Korea. The Sonata is every bit as good as the Camry.
However if it appeared that Hyundai was beginning to steal too many sales from either Toyota or Honda or Nissan.....the pricing would fall in a heatbeat IMO. Right now Hyundai is being allowed to grow and establish itself by whatever Chrysler is losing. The other five are holding pretty steady with little or no fall off.
Not true. Between Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai, Hyundai is the only one with healthy growth this year. Honda and Toyota are way down.
I hope you are right that Honda and Toyota will fight tooth and nail...that will be good for all of us.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The reductions at Toyota and Honda aren't so much due to anything that Hyundai is doing as they're due to the normal shrinkage in this industry.
JD Powers just today came out with its Customer loyalty study. In fact it's Hyundai that's not keeping as many customers ( below industry average ) as Honda ( #2 ) and Toyota ( #3). In the midsized sedan 2.0 thread there was a quote from a plant official at the Montgomery Hyundai plant that stated that it's strategy was to supply the fleets.
people that bought them 5 years ago, are buying new ones, and are drawing in others that are first time buyers.
Hyundai has some very solid products on the streets and in the pipeline there's no doubt about this. But the retail penetration is low compared the the Nippon 3. The new JD Power survey confirms what we're seeing too, but each market can be different.
An earlier post in forum An earlier post in forum points out that Toyota seemed to miscategorize the type of accident of their acceleration problem as occuring during parking instead of like it happened. This fits with an earlier link about Toyota and NHSTA categorizing things differently apparently to minimize the iimpact of the complaint.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
December 14, 2009 - 12:01 am ET
Toyota Motor Corp. is running overtime at all its North American plants to keep up with demand and replenish low supplies of vehicles.
Responding to strong sales of its RAV4 small crossover, Toyota is hiring a second shift of workers for its Woodstock, Ontario, plant.
....Toyota also is hiring workers for a second shift at its San Antonio factory, which will take over production of the mid-sized Tacoma pickup in July. Toyota is moving the Tacoma to Texas from New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. in Fremont, Calif., which the automaker is closing.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20091214/OEM01/312149961/1128
If it is really ALL NA production, then other models like Sienna and Camry must be selling really well too. Or maybe it means they will no longer suffer the currency exchange losses inherent in importing Japanese Camrys, and will now sell only homegrown models.
I guess now we know where they are going to make Tacomas after closing NUMMI in March. Are we to infer that there will be four months next year when they are not producing Tacomas?
So where will they produce Corollas?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Or as was noted in a follow-up comment:
To be fair - all bets are off after you were hit by a car running a stop sign.
Such a violent impact can throw all sorts of things off. Hydraulic brake lines can snap and leak out pressure, for instance. Leaky fluids, short circuits, who knows. Your Sienna was not intact.
I don't think your case is the same as the others here, not by a long shot.
Well, they already make Corollas at Cambridge, Ontario. Could be they will ramp up production there too.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Tupelo-made Prius' in 2011?
This would be the last of the high-volume vehicles to be moved from Japan to NA in reaction to the currency situation. If true and the trend continues the NA-produced vehicle count would go up over 70% of sales ( 68% in Nov 2009 ). Corolla to Baja plant? Why not? The tooling already exists in NUMMI and the plant already exists in Baja. They'd join VW, GM, Ford and Chrysler in expanding south of the border.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I sure hope Toyota doesn't build Corollas (or anything, for that matter) in Mexico. I like to see people having higher wage jobs. I have nothing against Mexico, other than the people have VERY low pay. I would NOT buy a Corolla made in Mexico - or any car, for that matter. The Fusion is a good car, but not even in the running for me because of the Mexican build. The quality of the assembly work is fine, but again, the money is going to Mexico, and it is not high wage jobs that you are supporting.
As for Toyota in particular, I have always found the Japanese-built cars to be much better made than the North American-built ones, and I won't be buying another Toyota that isn't made in Japan.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For me, I have had worse assembly on a Japan built Rav than my USA and Canadian built Toyotas. The Rav was fine, just rattles and squeaks that were fixed. However, that completely contradicts you and others that say the Japan built = better quality. Not in my experience.
The Civic's built in Japan are usually bullet-proof, while the Civic's and Accords made in the USA are sometimes (though still rarely compared to Big 3) suspect.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2011 Toyota Sienna
Toyota is presenting the latest iteration of its top-selling family hauler as significantly "more like a sedan."
But Inside Line readers aren't buying it. "Toyota can scream it from the roof tops, but no amount of restyling can make a minivan a sedan-like," says one, though another counters that "at least Toyota is trying to inject some life into their vehicles."
As with the redone Sonata, the Sienna's "nice-looking" new interior, "especially those reclining second row seats," is a bigger hit than its exterior, which some readers deride as "a little overdone," "confused" and reminiscent of "the last Mazda MPV -- not a compliment." Says one plainly, "I'd prefer Toyota to spend money on better quality... not more creases in the sheet metal." More than one post also wonders, "Where's the HYBRID?"
http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/12/los-angeles-auto-show-vehicles-generate-edmu- ndscom-buzz.html#more
Where's the hybrid (or diesel) indeed. The 4-cylinder is going to be rated only 2 mpg points better than the V-6, which will have 100 extra horsepower. They obviously made little or no effort to remove weight from this porker for the redo.
The thing that gave me a giggle is they will be introducing an SE trim for the '11, and yes it will have stiffened structure and suspension just like the Camry SE does. I don't expect it to produce much in the way of a handling advantage, and really is there anyone autocrossing their Sienna minivan? The handling is a little scary to me with its Titanic-like character, but then I usually drive a small car. When I switch to my friend's Sienna I wonder how she can bear to drive such a vehicle, but the vast utility of it quickly gives me my answer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bigger tires and better suspension is a good thing, since it also tames much of the wallow.
I have an Odyssey, and it handles remarkable well for such a boat. Much more "car like" than the previous generation Sienna.
Still, both are light years ahead of driving a FS SUV (Durango, Tahoe, etc.)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Blanket statement again. Until you need a full sized SUV , take it off road and/or tow a boat, I wouldn't compare it to a FWD kiddie hauler, soccer Dad.
However, until Toyota sticks a diesel in the Sienna and shaves 1000 pounds off its porky butt, the fuel economy will continue to be low in the context of global warming and the new CAFE goals.
Now that the minivan segment is down to Toyota and Honda with a half portion of Chrysler thrown in, do you think it's wise for Toyota to be planning on a third gen Sienna?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Both are using Li-Ion batteries. Toyota isn't talking prices yet...
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091221/CARNEWS/912219995
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Chrysler T&C 3.8L V6 ... 16 C / 23 H / 18 Comb
Honda Odyssey 3.5L V6 17 C / 25 H / 20 Comb *
Toyota Sienna 3.5L V6 .. 19 C / 26 H / 22 Comb EST
*VCM only
Right now the other two players are well behind even without any hybrid boost in fuel economy. If the HSD is linked to the 3.5L V6 then an Combined number should approach 30 mpg. If it's linked to the 2.7L I4 the the Combined number will be well above 30 mpg.
CAFE is no issue. The Combined number only has to be about 28 or higher using the EPA values.
Well it certainly won't while all the large automakers keep repeating that mantra and failing to offer any diesel-powered vehicles.
For a heavyweight like the Sienna, a diesel would be just the thing.
But consider the hybrid then, since these are often mostly short-trip suburban vehicles. Forget the 3.5, pair HSD with the 2.7 same as in the Camry, and you would still have a little more power than the base 2.7L Sienna will have, and you might actually get to that 30-32 mpg figure you mentioned.
The 3.5 won't make 30, I don't think. But all this is hypothetical, the question is when when when?? Toyota has been promising this thing for most of the time the last-gen Prius was available - that's six long years now!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, it turns out it was a new '09 LS600hL, if I have that designator right - the long-wheelbase, hybrid LS - and the sticker was $122,000!! No WONDER they hadn't sold that monster. Wonder if they will manage to sell it at $107,000. If not, I suppose they can always send it to auction. :-P
Toyota has more hybrids available in the Lexus line than it does in the Toyota line, and that's a disgrace from the supposed hybrid leader. The Sienna and pickups are ripe for it, and just think what they could achieve with a 1.5L HSD powertrain in the Corolla! And what about putting the 2.7L HSD powertrain in the RAV4? Its numbers are firmly in the mediocre range - that's another Toyota model where the 4-cyl with 100 less horsepower barely makes better mpg than the overpowered V-6!!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But right now there is nothing stopping Toyota from offering a hybrid version of all the unibody vehicles if the public wanted and demanded them. But all the available output from the battery makers in Toyota's realm are being directed toward the Gen 3 Prius. But I'm somewhat surprised too that Toyota hasn't used its hammer to greater effect to pound on the competition.
In terms of power and fuel economy..
A RAV hybrid would kill the Escape.
A smaller HSD Yaris would wipe out all the small vehicles.
A hybrid Sienna will embarass both the Ody and the T&C.
A 2.7L + HSD Highlander would also would easily be the industry leader at a competitive price.
I think from Mr Toyoda's comments earlier this fall that we'll be seeing more usage of their hybrid leverage beginning in two weeks at NAIAS.
the TCH can't match the FFH.
you don't really think the RAV would get the Prius drivetrain, right?.
The RAV is too close in weight to the Highlander for that.
the Escape just can't be killed. :P
The TCH still uses the 2.4L designed in the 90's and first implemented in the 2002 MY Camry. This engine has been surpassed by both the new 2.5L and the 2.7L, both of which are more powerful and more fuel efficient. When the Gen 7 Camry is unveiled 14 months from now the TCH will be linked to one or the other of these I4's. This will end the FFH's short reign as midsized fuel king. Here's a hint: I can easily get 36 mpg in the non-hybrid Camry using the 2.5L day in and day out on my normal commute ( I've done it while my Prius was in the shop for an accident ). Both Toyota's and Ford's hybrid systems increase the typical fuel economy of the basic ICE by about 30%. This would put the new TCH in the 43 to 45 mpg range on a daily basis.
The RAV now uses the same 2.5L engine. If they had the battery production capacity to offer a RAV hybrid then it would be well in excess of 30-32 mpg.
At present both Ford vehicles are the leaders in the respective segments. This is a game of leap frog though as new engines and new technologies are introduced. Now it's Toyota's turn. Watch.
This goes to my basic point in the prior post. Toyoda the CEO stated that he felt that the company hadn't levereged it's technological lead in hybrids as much as it could. It has 'played nicely' concentrating only on the Prius and the TCH and Highlander/Kluger in Japan. Now battery limitations may have played a part in that but there are new plants coming on stream. I'd expect to see a bunch of new offerings across a lot of models beginning in two weeks. I'd also expect them to stop playing so nicely letting Honda have all the small hybrids and staying out of Ford's way in the small CUV market. Now it may be time to use the hammer. We'll see.
you have a long commute, so you will tend to get upper end of the estimated mileage, whatever you drive.
if a RAV could get 30-32 mpg, it would be no better than the FEH.