> It's the work rules and negative attitude at the UAW that is hurting the domestic automakers and will ultimately force them to leave in order to compete and survive. Very sad.
> Physicians, for the most part, use metric measurements.
Indeed. I work with surgeons every day and they use centimeters, which they call "sonameters." For the longest time I just scratched my head, wondering: WTF? After 20 years of it, I just go with the flow.
"Physicians, for the most part, use metric measurements"...my doctor, in his 40s, measures me in pounds, like a real American should... :P
fezo: I like that, 2 meters under...what do we call the six foot pine box???...somehow, a 2 meter pine box just does NOT invoke thoughts of John Wayne and the Wild West...
fezo: I like that, 2 meters under...what do we call the six foot pine box???...somehow, a 2 meter pine box just does NOT invoke thoughts of John Wayne and the Wild West...
Where are the cubits and stones when you need them?
I weigh about 12 stones. I'm about 3.8 cubits tall.
OK, but anybody can look at the average foot, see it is about 12 inches and say, "That's a foot", but who's the knucklehead that measured the distance from the equator to the north pole?? And seeing as how there was no metric system, did he measure it in miles and convert it??? (Convert it to what?? There was no metric system)
Dunno. It's NOT metric, though. Here is the dimensions:
6.14 × 2.61 × 0.0043 in = 155.956 × 66.294 mm × 0.10922 mm
It COULD be SAE, in that the 6.14" converts to 6-9/64 (.140625) and 2.61 converts to 2-39/64 (.609375). Where they would pull those fractions out of is anyone's guess. This IS our Gov't we're talking about
(CNNMoney.com) -- Looking for skilled, low-cost labor? Forget about India and China. How about Jonesboro, Ark.? As the national unemployment rate hovers near 10%, some companies are starting to eye job-hungry areas of the country as prime candidates for the kind of outsourced work that once would have gone overseas. Dubbed "ruralsourcing," "rural outsourcing" and "onshoring," the practice relies on two simple premises: Smaller towns need jobs, and they offer a cheaper cost of living than urban centers. So businesses that outsource work to these areas can expect to pay less -- rates are often as much as 25% to 50% lower -- than if they were hiring urbanites with comparable skills.
I was put out of my Indiana Job at GM with Mitsubishi applying this concept in Maysville, Ky. and in W. Podunk, WV. That was back in 1998 and 2000.
The Japanese have now taken it a step further. In Greensburg, Indiana, at the Civic Factory, they are trying to replace the rural ‘half price’ workers with robots. I wonder if they still get training subsidies from the state for programming a robot.
How is the % American value determined? Is a transmission, shipped over from Japan and dropped into a Camry, one part? Are the 10 bolts used to attach it to the engine 10 parts? So if they buy the bolts locally, the tranny and bolts combined are 91% USA sourced?
Dave, I'd say the most important measure would be the VALUE of the parts. I don't know if that's the way the government or the manufacturers calculate it, though.
How is the % American value determined? Is a transmission, shipped over from Japan and dropped into a Camry, one part? Are the 10 bolts used to attach it to the engine 10 parts? So if they buy the bolts locally, the tranny and bolts combined are 91% USA sourced?
One thing we study in our American-Made Index is domestic-parts content labels. The labels show exactly what percentage of parts, by cost, come from the U.S. or Canada. You can find them on a new car's window sticker or, more often, a nearby label.
Critics say the labels don't tell the entire story of a car's domestic status, pointing to jobs generated by assembly lines, dealerships and marketing departments. Since the labels show U.S. and Canadian parts, they can be a bit misleading if you're looking strictly for U.S. content. They also average the numbers across an entire model line, so they could be skewed by a trim level with especially high or low content. . . . "Most of the manufacturers today look at the world as a contiguous global world," he said. "Because of that, it's just a hugely different world from what we've seen in the past, and you make your decisions now on global rules instead of just domestic rules.
"The objective of any manufacturer is to be as productive as possible anywhere they manufacture, whether it's whole vehicles or parts. ... You've got to do what it takes to be profitable."
>"Smaller towns need jobs, and they offer a cheaper cost of living than urban centers. So businesses that out source work to these areas can expect to pay less -- rates are often as much as 25% to 50% lower -- than if they were hiring urbanites with comparable skills."
Here are two examples of low cost areas and lower pay vs high cost areas and higher pay.
My BIL was Fire Chief at a small town near ours. Seems he had 15+/- people reporting to him. Through a friend, he got an interview and then a job offer in Washington DC doing education for the Washington Fire Department. The money was CONSIDERABLY more. Now, after 2 years, he is considering a job in Orange Beach Alabama at less pay than he was making as Fire Chief here.
Before I left IBM in the mid 90s, my manager got a promotion and moved from Atlanta to Franklin New Jersey. During a visit here he said the much larger paycheck was eaten up by property taxes, utilities and everything else they did. He said that even a "Big Mac" at McDonalds was more expensive. Clothing, fuel, eating out, everything was more. The house he bought there was the same floor plan as the one he sold here, but smaller with a smaller yard, and I'm thinking it was the same price or more.
Point being that more pay in an expensive area doesn't necessarily mean a better standard of living. Therefore lower pay in a less expensive area doesn't necessarily mean poverty.
Those companies that are "ruralsourcing" just may be doing a great service to the communities they go into. While an assembly line worker in Alabama may make 25%+ less than one in Detroit, his standard of living may be comparable or better.
Of course the laid off UAW worker might choose to sit at home and complain until his unemployment runs out. But chances are good that if a company moved in there offering 25%-50% less than he was making at GM and he noticed that rent in his area had dropped or houses were less expensive than they once were, he just might jump at the opportunity. Maybe Not!
The "ruralsourcing" companies have a couple of choices. They can out source over seas or find people here that can keep their businesses running. I say Kudos to them for trying it here.
Dave, Please consider this.
You owned a manufacturing company. Over the years the high cost of living and therefore high labor cost to you have made your business less profitable. You might fold. Would you continue as usual until you went under, or try through automation (Possibly Robots) and/or relocation (less labor cost) to get back in the game?
Through anecdotal evidence, I have come to the conclusion that, unless you make really big bucks, the salaries in states Like NY, CA, IL, etc rarely offset the increased cost of living, taking into account housing cost and size, utilities, ppty taxes (my Mother's ppty taxes were $14K before the senior citizen discount, $18K without, my ppty taxes for a smaller home in GA just went up from $1100 to $1150...I may have to appeal that tax assessment or borrow the extra $50 from gagrice... :P :P ...), increased food costs, gasoline, yada, yada, yada...
I would bet that unless you MUST live near Broadway plays, living in or near NYC just ain't worth it unless you make over $250K yearly...
My $125K house on 1/2 acre in GA would probably be $300K in NY...altho if you don't mind living in Detroit, where the UAW controlled the state and ruined it, you can buy a home there for under $5,000.00...that ought to be affordable even if the taxes are high...when I lived in Detroit in the 80s, houses were about $50-80K, and even at those low prices, ppty taxes were $3K yearly because everything was unionized, even the homeless...
In Greensburg, Indiana, at the Civic Factory, they are trying to replace the rural ‘half price’ workers with robots.
OK, but are your arguing that automation is bad when humans could do the same thing? By that argument we would be plowing farms with manual hoes, building homes without power tools, and sewing clothes with needle, thread, and thimble.
My first indication that the American Big 3 were in more serious trouble came back in the 80s when they were all set to automate a bundle of assembly tasks and the UAW balked. At the time the UAW had enough clout to rule the day. Instead of robots they continued to have people doing tasks that weren't necessary for them to do. They, of course, continued to be paid at full UAW rate. Didn't take much work to figure out the arithmetic on this would never work.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Some things need humans to do the work and some things are better done by robots if they work correctly...initailly, when Roger Smith was automating GM in the 80s, many stories about paint robots painting the other paint robots instead of the car are almost funny...with hindsight, was it a software or hardware problem???...back then, software was a word hardly anyone knew, now, homeless standing in line at a soup kitchen probably know about Windows and Wordperfect...
OK, but are your arguing that automation is bad when humans could do the same thing? By that argument we would be plowing farms with manual hoes, building homes without power tools, and sewing clothes with needle, thread, and thimble.
As always, it depends on one's point of view.
If the automation is making the product YOU purchase cheaper and/or better/and or more reliable, then its a great thing.
If the same automation is replacing YOUR job with a robot, then its a horrible thing.
Folks in this country really need to get off this "living in the past" kick and get used to learning new skills. The world is changing every day, and what didn't exist 20 years ago is now the standard in many cases.
Personally, I can't think of a single successful friend/associate of mine around my age (56) that HASN'T continued their education in some form or fashion over the years. One probably wouldn't feel comfortable with a physician that no longer received additional education beyond getting his degree from medical school, so why should the lawyer, factory worker, accountant, etc. be any different?
But, I have a brother that doesn't see it that way. He's always complaining that the world simply "passed him by", and I have told him at least 1000 times that he wasn't passed by, he just refused to get on the train when it was in the station.
I agree with you 100%. There are some occupations that robots are very efficient at. Some require that "human touch". Technology has progressed at a lightning fast rate of speed....not just in the automotive industry...but life in general. I was talking to my ex wife recently and we remembered a time that I screwed up and said something really stupid! (laughing) To make amends, I decided to buy her a microwave oven. Those suckers were almost $1000 then!!! Now, you can get them for $50 and they're disposable. Same thing with TV's, VCR's, and video cameras.
We need to be thankful for and embrace change. Most of you know I'm a gung ho GM guy! I agree that policies of the past haven't always worked. The same can be said for Toyota. Hyundai has learned this....and has taken some bold moves after the economy tanked. I agree they are now a force to be reckoned with. I do think that GM is starting to right it's ship. The quality is MUCH better. The designs are better. Just like the United States, change will start....but it takes time to turn everything around. As a salesman of GM vehicles, it's starting to become a fun ride again!
I'm a long term Honda (and occasionally Nissan) guy but I agree with pretty much what you say.
The recent introductions by GM have pretty much all been good, competitive products. The real question is whether they had dug themselves too deep a hole to get out of.
We're clearly seeing a shift in brand loyalties. A few more good launches could be the difference.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Hey, tbone, here's one Toyota owner getting rid of my first, and last Toyota and buying a Buick. I'm trading foreign mediocrity for domestic world-class design and quality. If I'm right, GM has a bright future.
>simply thinking JDP or any other survey concern might have extensive info on its polled base is pretty presumptive
"COLUMBUS, Ohio - The state of Ohio has collected millions of dollars selling records with your name, address, driver's license number and other personal information so it can be used in all sorts of ways, from crafting insurance policies to screening job candidates.
"Since 2005, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles has sold more than 1.39 trillion records containing personal information to various companies, municipalities and other customers for about $42 million, according to state records. "
"Many of the state's customers, which include data aggregation companies like LexisNexis, turn around and sell the information to third parties. The companies are expected to follow federal and state privacy laws that dictate who is entitled to this information. "
It was great...Yes, the economy had its ups and downs, but we had the industrial base to recover...Nowadays we are screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was a ball back in the 60s,70s, 80's, and started downhill beginning in the 90's, and fell out of bed by 2000. choked up and died by 2006, you know the rest of the story..
Once the politicans figured out how to screw our industry, they reaped the benefits and the Asians blanketed our land with state-sponsored new assembly plants built with your tax dollars and freebies up the you-know-what..Some 2000 Asian vendors set-up shop on the American soil to service these assembly operations..
I entered the supplier game to the Big3 in August 1967 as a sales rep, then from 9/73-7/79 vp/operations managing a small 100 employee 95% auto-related product mfgr near Flint, Mi..had 2 bad months in beginning of 1974, and my last fiscal year turned a profit of 1 mil on sales of 5 mil..Returned to Sales career in 1/80, easier life, and 1/89 went to a self-employed mfgr rep until 5/02..the best life..
The "content labels" shown on the MSRP stickers are a "joke" where it is a 75-25, domestic/foreign on the Marysville and Georgetown creations...who is checking, certainly not our govt..who cares-----------nobody...
The only outstanding American auto giant is Ford, while up to their ears in debt, they have avoided blowing away our tax $$$$$$s. I will buy no GM or Chrysler car that has been produced under or after Obama takeover..No titled ownership of any Asian car under my name except the Camry XLE which I babysit for and occupies a far space in the garage..
If you wish to feed the foreign auto companies, take a look at Detroit for it be coming to your town next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>simply thinking JDP or any other survey concern might have extensive info on its polled base is pretty presumptive
"COLUMBUS, Ohio - The state of Ohio has collected millions of dollars selling records with your name, address, driver's license number and other personal information so it can be used in all sorts of ways, from crafting insurance policies to screening job candidates.
"Since 2005, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles has sold more than 1.39 trillion records containing personal information to various companies, municipalities and other customers for about $42 million, according to state records. "
"Many of the state's customers, which include data aggregation companies like LexisNexis, turn around and sell the information to third parties. The companies are expected to follow federal and state privacy laws that dictate who is entitled to this information. "
LOL!!!!
Point # 1: I seem to have missed the section above that discussed the accuracy of the data being sold. I never said that data wasn't available, I said its highly inaccurate. And, IT IS HIGHLY INNACURATE!
I have a former business partner/friend in the business of data mining, and I know first hand how trashy much of this so-called "accurate information" really is.
Point # 2: Exactly how does having any of the available information on me, you, or anyone else obtained by JDP from any source (internet or purchased by a data source vendor) have any relationhip with the way I would rate the purchase of a new car? My likes and dislikes of the vehicle? The problems associated with my particular vehicle?
The original point that someone made was that the data which JD Powers knew about the people to whom they sent the questionnaires was not there.
I have shown that the data is out there, and is easily obtainable from DMV records as well as internet data mining, whether your friend is trashy or not.
You seem to have redirected the question as to the exact precisness of the data or to LOL at my points. Rather than discussing, you seem to want to deride any point made, so this is my last comment in response to your type of post. I have shown that what I made as a point about data being out there rather than the owners of vehicles being obscured. I made the point that searching on 411.com or other sites for info about people reveals lots of data. I have been respectful of the opinion of whoever espoused the original concern that there was no data available for JDP and others to use about the clients. Have a good day.
The original point that someone made was that the data which JD Powers knew about the people to whom they sent the questionnaires was not there.
I have shown that the data is out there, and is easily obtainable from DMV records as well as internet data mining, whether your friend is trashy or not.
Forgive me if you felt I was attacking you personally. That was not my intention.
However, it appears that you are the one attempting to redirect the conversation. Go back and read the discussion. It was ALL about how reliable the JDP surveys are in regards to the results they publish. And, that requires DIRECT information from the survey...not where someone lives, their DL number, who they bank with, etc.
Your post #8507...
They follow up to attempt to obtain responses from nonrespondees. That's something CR doesn't do, does it? There also are statistical corrections that can be made for those nonrespondents.
In this day and age of known data about everyone, they already know personal information about the people to whom the surveys are going; that makes it easier.
None of that information is useful at all in determining the best (or worst) car, and after all, isn't that what the survey is all about?
So, I ask again...Exactly HOW is any information that JDP could find on the Internet useful in determining the Best of Worst car?
At best, all it does is tell them how to find you, and I suspect that really wasn't much of a problem to begin with. After all, most folks don't move within 90 days of buying a car.
"If you wish to feed the foreign auto companies, take a look at Detroit for it be coming to your town next"...
While I see your point, I also wonder just how long the scam of the UAW would have gone on anyway...if we could only buy Big 3 cars, and no imports, then UAW-made cars would have become worse junk than we had in the 70s and 80s...the prices would have been $40K for a small car for quality that would have rivaled papier mache...
Detroit was a self-imposed condition, where people with no skills whatsoever were assembling cars making an upper class income...that was a train wreck that was surprising ONLY because it lasted as long as it did...anyone with half a brain (which includes no one in the UAW) would know that it would hit the wall, the only question was when???...
Assembling the imports in American auto plants still gives jobs to the locals, who contribute to 401K's instead of fully paid pensions (I think I am correct on that) and eventually the tax abatements will end and the imports will also pay local ppty taxes...meanwhile, we still have an auto industry here, just owned by companies that make better cars than the Big 3 did...remember, the Big 3 PUSHED their customers away by making junk, pure, unadulterated junk, and the imports seemd to make what the people wanted...Detroit made billions on SUVs while gas was cheap, and they squandered it, and I find it hard to believe that no one in the industry ever planned that gas might go up...
After seeing all the Accords and Camrys selling over the years, didn't ANYBODY in the Big 3 realize that not everybody wants an SUV???...that millions of us wanted medium size cars for smaller families, yet they ignored this market while the imports catered to it...Detroit's idea of a small car was the Vega or the Pinto...
When the UAW worked for better working conditions in the 30s 40s and 50s, and even into the 60s, they did America, and their members, a great service...but then the monster grew out of control and the inmates were running the asylum...management did their share by refusing to take a strike long enough to break the union, as Roger Smith should have done in the early 80s after GM had a very poor year...he could have broken the union and really moved the nation forward, but he caved after 6 weeks (???)...Roger Smith could have been the hero of capitalism by killing the UAW, but he didn't...instead the arrogance of GM along with poor UAW quality and workmanship, combined with the free-market killed GM itself...they killed the goose that laid the golden eggs, and, to this day, the UAW is STILL too stupid to figure it out...
>"If you wish to feed the foreign auto companies, take a look at Detroit for it be coming to your town next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
In the Atlanta area we had Ford and Chevrolet on the south side , BOP and GM on the north side. They all closed their manufacturing plants. Many years ago!
The city and most everything around it is as viable or more so than ever. While Atlanta has it's share of problems like other large cities, it didn't belly up like Detroit. Maybe there is a different mentality of the people.
Success or lack of it largely depends on the people's ability to cope with setbacks and rebound.
Newnan Ga. was a tiny town in the middle of nowhere. Yamaha moved a manufacturing plant there and the town quickly grew into a small city and is still growing.
Carrolton was a smallish town with some light manufacturing. Kia set up shop there and businesses are springing up.
Maybe if Detroit would approach some manufacturers and the Ex-UAW workers would get over their entitlement attitudes, Detroit just might come back. But they won't as long as they sit back with a "Woe is Me" attitude.
I think one thing Atalanta has going for it vs. Detroit is that, while it had automobile plants, that was not the only, or even dominant, contributor to the local economy. Detroit bet the whole wad on one industry and it's gone to a large extent.
In Jersey we used to have half a dozen auto plants and now we have none but we've got lots of other industries so, with pockets of exceptions, aren't doing badly.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"While I see your point, I also wonder just how long the scam of the UAW would have gone on anyway...if we could only buy Big 3 cars, and no imports, then UAW-made cars would have become worse junk than we had in the 70s and 80s...the prices would have been $40K for a small car for quality that would have rivaled papier mache.."
BINGO! That's why I'm glad the Asians came into our market. They focused on customer responsiveness rather than viewing the customer as a pain the [non-permissible content removed] necessary evil. Its taken two decades, but I think Detroit management finally gets it. However, I'm not sure the UAW does yet. Speaking of the UAW, their picketing of Toyota dealers will backfire. It will likely motivate customers to buy a Toyota due to the UAW crapping their nest on customers the past decades. As for Toyota workers, if they are rationale they will clearly see they are better off without the UAW. Less work strife while making similar wages, the loser employees aren't protected, and Toyota took care of their people during the recent economic fallout. All the UAW will get them is an atmosphere of "us against them" where losers are treated the same as productive workers, and they will pay UAW dues for the privilege.
BINGO?? Since when was the UAW in charge of the Big Three? I make no case for the excesses of the UAW leadership, but who signed off on 30+ years of inferior products? That would be the MANAGEMENT. I mean, the salaried guys who DID and DO run what's left of our domestic car companies. Now, the Asians did us all a favor in raising the bar for quality cars. And, sure, Yamaha and the rest have brought good times to many places in America, but those plants are foreign property, whose profits leave our shores - a privilege hard to find back in their home country of Japan. And those good Toyota non-union wages - how long will they last if the UAW contracts disappear?
"Maybe if Detroit would approach some manufacturers and the Ex-UAW workers would get over their entitlement attitudes, Detroit just might come back. But they won't as long as they sit back with a "Woe is Me" attitude."...
First, understand this as well as the concept of gravity...Detroit will NEVER come back...they do not have a "woe is me" attitude, their DNA is embedded with a "you owe me" attuitude...period, end of statement...
If you knew the general mental capacity of a UAW worker, you will understand that it will not be until they (current members) are dead and their children are dead before they will EVER understand the work ethic, the one where you work to get paid...Jobs Bank, SUB-pay (Supplemental Employment Benefits which was added to their unemployment pay to raise them to their full paycheck while on unemployment), golden free health care (you mean I have to pay for this, Doctor???) they think that it was mandated to them by the Bible...
All kidding aside, they really believe that UAW crap that they earned it and they deserve it, and as long as that brainwashing exists in any current living generations, they will always think that striking will get them what they want and that work quality, work attendance, mean nothing as long as they get "what's theirs"...
Find me 1000 laid-off UAW workers right now in Detroit...if you could be a fly on the wall in 999 of their living rooms, I assure you they would be taking right now about the return of Walter Reuther's ghost who will order another sit-down strike and will bring back the "good old days"...they are not an intelligent bunch of folks, and they just see this as a bad dream from which they will wake up and it will all disappear, the GM UAW plants will be back to 500,000 members and the world will buy whatever they cram down out throats...I will bet you money that they have learned NOTHING from the quality improvements of Honda, Toyota, etc., and that they really, simply "do not get it"...
I met hundreds of autoworkers while in Detroit, and the sheer ignorance and stupidity exhibited by them is astonishing...it is a wonder that they can put their pants on in the morning and tie their own shoes...
We will get quality work out of them as soon as the last UAW-child is dead, and the infant grandchildren have no knowledge of the last 50 years...once we have an "un-brainwashed brain" to work with, only then will sanity return and a quality product will be manufactured...they could save some time and drive to Marysville, Ohio and see what Honda is doing, but that would imply SOME level of intelligence, and I DID say they were UAW people, so that kinda eliminates the possibility of SOME level of intelligence...
20 years from now they will STILL be wondering how it happened...they still believe that floorsweepers and left-side lug-nut tighteners are worth $35/hour plus benefits...their ignorance is beyond belief...
Since when was the UAW in charge of the Big Three?
One word...STRIKE.
Up until the last few years (since the foreign makes have taken hold with quality products) there wasn't a politician with the guts to go strike busting on the Big three. It simply would cost too many votes, and a vote is worth more to a politcian than anything else.
But, in no way take that comment as a defense of management. At some point, the top dogs should have told the public the simple truth, which was the old ways of doing business could no longer be sustained in a global marketing environment.
But, like the UAW management, they simply chose to take the money and kick the can a bit further on down the road.
Its an eeriely similar situation to the US government today and how we as a country view our national financial condition. Just like the Big three, our reconing day is fast approaching...
I make no case for the excesses of the UAW leadership, but who signed off on 30+ years of inferior products? That would be the MANAGEMENT.
Do you really think that expensive contracts (gained while the striking UAW tried to shut down auto manufacturing at a cost of $millions) have no effect on product decisions? If your competitor can make something cheaper, and you have to have cost parity and your labor and benefits are much higher, do you really think that quality may not be affected?
It was the Management's fault for not breaking the union, and for agreeing to the expensive contracts. Given that the contracts were in place, it was a sensible (but flawed) set of decisions that they try to cut product costs to remain competitive.
What is the common denominator in failed auto companies? The UAW!
C >> Failed (UAW) GM >> Failed (UAW) F >> Nearly Failed (UAW, moving manufacturing out of the country)
Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Honda, BMW, Subaru, etc. >> successful manufacturing in the US (no UAW)
To pretend that the UAW did not have a huge part in the downfall of Detroit is sticking a head in the sand.
"It was the Management's fault for not breaking the union, and for agreeing to the expensive contracts. Given that the contracts were in place, it was a sensible (but flawed) set of decisions that they try to cut product costs to remain competitive."
Roger Smith had that chance in 1983 or 1984 IIRC...he blew the best chance any company ever had...
You're wrong about Toyota taking care of their workers during the economic downturn. The engine plant here simply fired 300 of their so-called "temp" workers as soon as sales went South.
The profits go to the shareholders, many of whom live in the U.S. You can buy shares in Toyota & Honda (via ADRs) from your broker. If you do, your share of the profits, in the form of dividends, will be deposited in your brokerage account for you to spend or reinvest as you see fit.
You're wrong about Toyota taking care of their workers during the economic downturn. The engine plant here simply fired 300 of their so-called "temp" workers as soon as sales went South.
And what part of "temporary" don't you understand? :confuse:
How many "permanent" GM employees have lost their jobs lately? Did that take good care of them?
>" ....but who signed off on 30+ years of inferior products? That would be the MANAGEMENT. I mean, the salaried guys who DID and DO run what's left of our domestic car companies."
Good point! When trying to compete at a given price point, every expense is critical. A management team vs a labor team, and both wanting all the eggs they can squeeze out of the goose, leaves little room for profits unless the expenses can be controlled through using 2nd and 3rd tier parts.
As someone pointed out above, much of the profits belong to the stock holders. Also the businesses serving and servicing the plants create American jobs. So the HOME OFFICE of the manufacturer, foreign or domestic, has little effect in the overall scheme of things. I'm more concerned with the product they turn out. I personally don't care where that Home Office is as long as American Workers can earn a living.
>"And those good Toyota non-union wages - how long will they last if the UAW contracts disappear?"
Generally speaking, companies pay what is necessary to get good workers. For instance, most will not pay an assembly line worker as well as a hospital will pay a nurse. Although UAW seems to think they deserve to make the same. There is a huge difference in the value of the job, as well as the education necessary to obtain those jobs. But manufacturing plants, in general will compete with each other for the best workers and will pay the necessary wages to obtain them.
If the D3 "Brilliant" management teams and the "Brilliant" UAW had thought this through, they would have realized they were strangling a weakening goose. But they were all more interested in "Self".
Why didn't D3 management stop the lines and say, "We are getting our butts kicked by the Asians superior products. You can strike as long as you like, but the line doesn't start again until we can all collectively develop a plan to compete successfully." Why didn't the UAW understand the same thing, and say, "Hey, we are building crap. And we are not proud of our products. Get serious or prepare for a strike!"
Seems that nobody understood that they were putting themselves out of business.
Why would the public want to buy from idiots building inferior products? Even though the profits, real or imagined, were making those in the Tall D3 corporate office buildings richer?
Me thinks that Toyota had an eye opener recently. They tried too hard to get too big too fast. They are now spending Zillions because of that. But unlike D3, they publicly admitted their mistakes. They admitted they had let their quality slip. Therefore , at least for the time being, they are likely the most serious about their quality.
And now GM is advertising the Buick born in Germany. The add mentioned Germany a few times and catch words like the Autobahn and so forth. Well German and UAW workers may have a different set of standards.
Didn't toyota have as much as 40% of their workers at Georgetown on temporary status ,dangling the carrot of possible fulltime employment, eventually? Of course that makes it easier to say you "took care" of your workers during slowdowns in TV PR commercials.: you dismissed those part time workers and claimed you kept the full timer workers busy painting the plant! I'd put this in the same category as how toyota took good care of sudden engine acceleration problems since 2002.
If the UAW wants to keep people from buying Toyotas, instead of picketing dealers, they should simply ask the dealerships' slimy salesmen to stand out front.
>"You're wrong about Toyota taking care of their workers during the economic downturn. The engine plant here simply fired 300 of their so-called "temp" workers as soon as sales went South."
Not at all for unusual for "Smart" companies to hire temp workers. Especially in peak times. Those "temps" are watched and when a permenant employee is needed, the "best" are offered full time jobs. Temps understand they are temporary!
If times get tough they can lay off temps without having to lay off those that have come to depend on the job to feed their families. Unforced loyalty to the employees, will result in the employees loyalty to the company. Seems that management and labor work together to produce superior products. Unlike D3 Management VS labor!
My son worked PT at Yamaha through an agency. When they needed a permenant worker he was hired full time. He took advantage of training and opportunities they offered. He has climbed through the ranks and now has a good job and plenty of opportunities if he chooses to climb higher.
Point is he didn't sit around installing lug nuts and expect good thing to happen "Just Because". He has initiative!
Comments
But to what end? Where do you draw the line?
Indeed. I work with surgeons every day and they use centimeters, which they call "sonameters." For the longest time I just scratched my head, wondering: WTF? After 20 years of it, I just go with the flow.
fezo: I like that, 2 meters under...what do we call the six foot pine box???...somehow, a 2 meter pine box just does NOT invoke thoughts of John Wayne and the Wild West...
Where are the cubits and stones when you need them?
I weigh about 12 stones. I'm about 3.8 cubits tall.
We don't need no stinking pounds or inches. :P
:sick: :sick: OH, my head!!!!
6.14 × 2.61 × 0.0043 in = 155.956 × 66.294 mm × 0.10922 mm
It COULD be SAE, in that the 6.14" converts to 6-9/64 (.140625) and 2.61 converts to 2-39/64 (.609375). Where they would pull those fractions out of is anyone's guess. This IS our Gov't we're talking about
As the national unemployment rate hovers near 10%, some companies are starting to eye job-hungry areas of the country as prime candidates for the kind of outsourced work that once would have gone overseas.
Dubbed "ruralsourcing," "rural outsourcing" and "onshoring," the practice relies on two simple premises: Smaller towns need jobs, and they offer a cheaper cost of living than urban centers. So businesses that outsource work to these areas can expect to pay less -- rates are often as much as 25% to 50% lower -- than if they were hiring urbanites with comparable skills.
I was put out of my Indiana Job at GM with Mitsubishi applying this concept in Maysville, Ky. and in W. Podunk, WV. That was back in 1998 and 2000.
The Japanese have now taken it a step further. In Greensburg, Indiana, at the Civic Factory, they are trying to replace the rural ‘half price’ workers with robots. I wonder if they still get training subsidies from the state for programming a robot.
Is a transmission, shipped over from Japan and dropped into a Camry, one part?
Are the 10 bolts used to attach it to the engine 10 parts? So if they buy the bolts locally, the tranny and bolts combined are 91% USA sourced?
Is a transmission, shipped over from Japan and dropped into a Camry, one part?
Are the 10 bolts used to attach it to the engine 10 parts? So if they buy the bolts locally, the tranny and bolts combined are 91% USA sourced?
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=amMadeParts&subject=am- - - i
From the link...
One thing we study in our American-Made Index is domestic-parts content labels. The labels show exactly what percentage of parts, by cost, come from the U.S. or Canada. You can find them on a new car's window sticker or, more often, a nearby label.
Critics say the labels don't tell the entire story of a car's domestic status, pointing to jobs generated by assembly lines, dealerships and marketing departments. Since the labels show U.S. and Canadian parts, they can be a bit misleading if you're looking strictly for U.S. content. They also average the numbers across an entire model line, so they could be skewed by a trim level with especially high or low content.
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"Most of the manufacturers today look at the world as a contiguous global world," he said. "Because of that, it's just a hugely different world from what we've seen in the past, and you make your decisions now on global rules instead of just domestic rules.
"The objective of any manufacturer is to be as productive as possible anywhere they manufacture, whether it's whole vehicles or parts. ... You've got to do what it takes to be profitable."
Here are two examples of low cost areas and lower pay vs high cost areas and higher pay.
My BIL was Fire Chief at a small town near ours. Seems he had 15+/- people reporting to him. Through a friend, he got an interview and then a job offer in Washington DC doing education for the Washington Fire Department. The money was CONSIDERABLY more. Now, after 2 years, he is considering a job in Orange Beach Alabama at less pay than he was making as Fire Chief here.
Before I left IBM in the mid 90s, my manager got a promotion and moved from Atlanta to Franklin New Jersey. During a visit here he said the much larger paycheck was eaten up by property taxes, utilities and everything else they did. He said that even a "Big Mac" at McDonalds was more expensive. Clothing, fuel, eating out, everything was more. The house he bought there was the same floor plan as the one he sold here, but smaller with a smaller yard, and I'm thinking it was the same price or more.
Point being that more pay in an expensive area doesn't necessarily mean a better standard of living. Therefore lower pay in a less expensive area doesn't necessarily mean poverty.
Those companies that are "ruralsourcing" just may be doing a great service to the communities they go into. While an assembly line worker in Alabama may make 25%+ less than one in Detroit, his standard of living may be comparable or better.
Of course the laid off UAW worker might choose to sit at home and complain until his unemployment runs out. But chances are good that if a company moved in there offering 25%-50% less than he was making at GM and he noticed that rent in his area had dropped or houses were less expensive than they once were, he just might jump at the opportunity. Maybe Not!
The "ruralsourcing" companies have a couple of choices. They can out source over seas or find people here that can keep their businesses running. I say Kudos to them for trying it here.
Dave, Please consider this.
You owned a manufacturing company. Over the years the high cost of living and therefore high labor cost to you have made your business less profitable. You might fold. Would you continue as usual until you went under, or try through automation (Possibly Robots) and/or relocation (less labor cost) to get back in the game?
Kip
I would bet that unless you MUST live near Broadway plays, living in or near NYC just ain't worth it unless you make over $250K yearly...
My $125K house on 1/2 acre in GA would probably be $300K in NY...altho if you don't mind living in Detroit, where the UAW controlled the state and ruined it, you can buy a home there for under $5,000.00...that ought to be affordable even if the taxes are high...when I lived in Detroit in the 80s, houses were about $50-80K, and even at those low prices, ppty taxes were $3K yearly because everything was unionized, even the homeless...
OK, but are your arguing that automation is bad when humans could do the same thing? By that argument we would be plowing farms with manual hoes, building homes without power tools, and sewing clothes with needle, thread, and thimble.
As always, it depends on one's point of view.
If the automation is making the product YOU purchase cheaper and/or better/and or more reliable, then its a great thing.
If the same automation is replacing YOUR job with a robot, then its a horrible thing.
Folks in this country really need to get off this "living in the past" kick and get used to learning new skills. The world is changing every day, and what didn't exist 20 years ago is now the standard in many cases.
Personally, I can't think of a single successful friend/associate of mine around my age (56) that HASN'T continued their education in some form or fashion over the years. One probably wouldn't feel comfortable with a physician that no longer received additional education beyond getting his degree from medical school, so why should the lawyer, factory worker, accountant, etc. be any different?
But, I have a brother that doesn't see it that way. He's always complaining that the world simply "passed him by", and I have told him at least 1000 times that he wasn't passed by, he just refused to get on the train when it was in the station.
Exactly.
The UAW thought they could put hubcaps on cars for 40 years with no changes.
Those days are gone.
Where is Churchill when I need him???
Or am I just a relic from the past???...
Where is Churchill when I need him???
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Winston Churchill
Seems appropriate....
Well.......... :P
We need to be thankful for and embrace change. Most of you know I'm a gung ho GM guy! I agree that policies of the past haven't always worked. The same can be said for Toyota. Hyundai has learned this....and has taken some bold moves after the economy tanked. I agree they are now a force to be reckoned with. I do think that GM is starting to right it's ship. The quality is MUCH better. The designs are better. Just like the United States, change will start....but it takes time to turn everything around. As a salesman of GM vehicles, it's starting to become a fun ride again!
The recent introductions by GM have pretty much all been good, competitive products. The real question is whether they had dug themselves too deep a hole to get out of.
We're clearly seeing a shift in brand loyalties. A few more good launches could be the difference.
Heck, you might be younger than me!
Thing is, there are still some viruses running rampant at the moment.
Maybe, someday...it will be the best job in the auto business.
Regards,
OW
"COLUMBUS, Ohio - The state of Ohio has collected millions of dollars selling records with your name, address, driver's license number and other personal information so it can be used in all sorts of ways, from crafting insurance policies to screening job candidates.
"Since 2005, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles has sold more than 1.39 trillion records containing personal information to various companies, municipalities and other customers for about $42 million, according to state records. "
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/07/ohio_collects_millions_selling.h- - tml
"Many of the state's customers, which include data aggregation companies like LexisNexis, turn around and sell the information to third parties. The companies are expected to follow federal and state privacy laws that dictate who is entitled to this information. "
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Once the politicans figured out how to screw our industry, they reaped the benefits and the Asians blanketed our land with state-sponsored new assembly plants built with your tax dollars and freebies up the you-know-what..Some 2000 Asian vendors set-up shop on the American soil to service these assembly operations..
I entered the supplier game to the Big3 in August 1967 as a sales rep, then from 9/73-7/79 vp/operations managing a small 100 employee 95% auto-related product mfgr near Flint, Mi..had 2 bad months in beginning of 1974, and my last fiscal year turned a profit of 1 mil on sales of 5 mil..Returned to Sales career in 1/80, easier life, and 1/89 went to a self-employed mfgr rep until 5/02..the best life..
The "content labels" shown on the MSRP stickers are a "joke" where it is a 75-25, domestic/foreign on the Marysville and Georgetown creations...who is checking, certainly not our govt..who cares-----------nobody...
The only outstanding American auto giant is Ford, while up to their ears in debt, they have avoided blowing away our tax $$$$$$s. I will buy no GM or Chrysler car that has been produced under or after Obama takeover..No titled ownership of any Asian car under my name except the Camry XLE which I babysit for and occupies a far space in the garage..
If you wish to feed the foreign auto companies, take a look at Detroit for it be coming to your town next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's the real suction sound of money being shipped offshore as Ross Perot would say.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"COLUMBUS, Ohio - The state of Ohio has collected millions of dollars selling records with your name, address, driver's license number and other personal information so it can be used in all sorts of ways, from crafting insurance policies to screening job candidates.
"Since 2005, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles has sold more than 1.39 trillion records containing personal information to various companies, municipalities and other customers for about $42 million, according to state records. "
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/07/ohio_collects_millions_selling.h- - - - tml
"Many of the state's customers, which include data aggregation companies like LexisNexis, turn around and sell the information to third parties. The companies are expected to follow federal and state privacy laws that dictate who is entitled to this information. "
LOL!!!!
Point # 1: I seem to have missed the section above that discussed the accuracy of the data being sold. I never said that data wasn't available, I said its highly inaccurate. And, IT IS HIGHLY INNACURATE!
I have a former business partner/friend in the business of data mining, and I know first hand how trashy much of this so-called "accurate information" really is.
Point # 2: Exactly how does having any of the available information on me, you, or anyone else obtained by JDP from any source (internet or purchased by a data source vendor) have any relationhip with the way I would rate the purchase of a new car? My likes and dislikes of the vehicle? The problems associated with my particular vehicle?
LOL!!! Really....LOL!!!!
I have shown that the data is out there, and is easily obtainable from DMV records as well as internet data mining, whether your friend is trashy or not.
You seem to have redirected the question as to the exact precisness of the data or to LOL at my points. Rather than discussing, you seem to want to deride any point made, so this is my last comment in response to your type of post. I have shown that what I made as a point about data being out there rather than the owners of vehicles being obscured. I made the point that searching on 411.com or other sites for info about people reveals lots of data. I have been respectful of the opinion of whoever espoused the original concern that there was no data available for JDP and others to use about the clients. Have a good day.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have shown that the data is out there, and is easily obtainable from DMV records as well as internet data mining, whether your friend is trashy or not.
Forgive me if you felt I was attacking you personally. That was not my intention.
However, it appears that you are the one attempting to redirect the conversation. Go back and read the discussion. It was ALL about how reliable the JDP surveys are in regards to the results they publish. And, that requires DIRECT information from the survey...not where someone lives, their DL number, who they bank with, etc.
Your post #8507...
They follow up to attempt to obtain responses from nonrespondees. That's something CR doesn't do, does it? There also are statistical corrections that can be made for those nonrespondents.
In this day and age of known data about everyone, they already know personal information about the people to whom the surveys are going; that makes it easier.
None of that information is useful at all in determining the best (or worst) car, and after all, isn't that what the survey is all about?
So, I ask again...Exactly HOW is any information that JDP could find on the Internet useful in determining the Best of Worst car?
At best, all it does is tell them how to find you, and I suspect that really wasn't much of a problem to begin with. After all, most folks don't move within 90 days of buying a car.
While I see your point, I also wonder just how long the scam of the UAW would have gone on anyway...if we could only buy Big 3 cars, and no imports, then UAW-made cars would have become worse junk than we had in the 70s and 80s...the prices would have been $40K for a small car for quality that would have rivaled papier mache...
Detroit was a self-imposed condition, where people with no skills whatsoever were assembling cars making an upper class income...that was a train wreck that was surprising ONLY because it lasted as long as it did...anyone with half a brain (which includes no one in the UAW) would know that it would hit the wall, the only question was when???...
Assembling the imports in American auto plants still gives jobs to the locals, who contribute to 401K's instead of fully paid pensions (I think I am correct on that) and eventually the tax abatements will end and the imports will also pay local ppty taxes...meanwhile, we still have an auto industry here, just owned by companies that make better cars than the Big 3 did...remember, the Big 3 PUSHED their customers away by making junk, pure, unadulterated junk, and the imports seemd to make what the people wanted...Detroit made billions on SUVs while gas was cheap, and they squandered it, and I find it hard to believe that no one in the industry ever planned that gas might go up...
After seeing all the Accords and Camrys selling over the years, didn't ANYBODY in the Big 3 realize that not everybody wants an SUV???...that millions of us wanted medium size cars for smaller families, yet they ignored this market while the imports catered to it...Detroit's idea of a small car was the Vega or the Pinto...
When the UAW worked for better working conditions in the 30s 40s and 50s, and even into the 60s, they did America, and their members, a great service...but then the monster grew out of control and the inmates were running the asylum...management did their share by refusing to take a strike long enough to break the union, as Roger Smith should have done in the early 80s after GM had a very poor year...he could have broken the union and really moved the nation forward, but he caved after 6 weeks (???)...Roger Smith could have been the hero of capitalism by killing the UAW, but he didn't...instead the arrogance of GM along with poor UAW quality and workmanship, combined with the free-market killed GM itself...they killed the goose that laid the golden eggs, and, to this day, the UAW is STILL too stupid to figure it out...
In the Atlanta area we had Ford and Chevrolet on the south side , BOP and GM on the north side. They all closed their manufacturing plants. Many years ago!
The city and most everything around it is as viable or more so than ever. While Atlanta has it's share of problems like other large cities, it didn't belly up like Detroit. Maybe there is a different mentality of the people.
Success or lack of it largely depends on the people's ability to cope with setbacks and rebound.
Newnan Ga. was a tiny town in the middle of nowhere. Yamaha moved a manufacturing plant there and the town quickly grew into a small city and is still growing.
Carrolton was a smallish town with some light manufacturing. Kia set up shop there and businesses are springing up.
Maybe if Detroit would approach some manufacturers and the Ex-UAW workers would get over their entitlement attitudes, Detroit just might come back. But they won't as long as they sit back with a "Woe is Me" attitude.
Kip
In Jersey we used to have half a dozen auto plants and now we have none but we've got lots of other industries so, with pockets of exceptions, aren't doing badly.
BINGO! That's why I'm glad the Asians came into our market. They focused on customer responsiveness rather than viewing the customer as a pain the [non-permissible content removed] necessary evil. Its taken two decades, but I think Detroit management finally gets it. However, I'm not sure the UAW does yet. Speaking of the UAW, their picketing of Toyota dealers will backfire. It will likely motivate customers to buy a Toyota due to the UAW crapping their nest on customers the past decades. As for Toyota workers, if they are rationale they will clearly see they are better off without the UAW. Less work strife while making similar wages, the loser employees aren't protected, and Toyota took care of their people during the recent economic fallout. All the UAW will get them is an atmosphere of "us against them" where losers are treated the same as productive workers, and they will pay UAW dues for the privilege.
First, understand this as well as the concept of gravity...Detroit will NEVER come back...they do not have a "woe is me" attitude, their DNA is embedded with a "you owe me" attuitude...period, end of statement...
If you knew the general mental capacity of a UAW worker, you will understand that it will not be until they (current members) are dead and their children are dead before they will EVER understand the work ethic, the one where you work to get paid...Jobs Bank, SUB-pay (Supplemental Employment Benefits which was added to their unemployment pay to raise them to their full paycheck while on unemployment), golden free health care (you mean I have to pay for this, Doctor???) they think that it was mandated to them by the Bible...
All kidding aside, they really believe that UAW crap that they earned it and they deserve it, and as long as that brainwashing exists in any current living generations, they will always think that striking will get them what they want and that work quality, work attendance, mean nothing as long as they get "what's theirs"...
Find me 1000 laid-off UAW workers right now in Detroit...if you could be a fly on the wall in 999 of their living rooms, I assure you they would be taking right now about the return of Walter Reuther's ghost who will order another sit-down strike and will bring back the "good old days"...they are not an intelligent bunch of folks, and they just see this as a bad dream from which they will wake up and it will all disappear, the GM UAW plants will be back to 500,000 members and the world will buy whatever they cram down out throats...I will bet you money that they have learned NOTHING from the quality improvements of Honda, Toyota, etc., and that they really, simply "do not get it"...
I met hundreds of autoworkers while in Detroit, and the sheer ignorance and stupidity exhibited by them is astonishing...it is a wonder that they can put their pants on in the morning and tie their own shoes...
We will get quality work out of them as soon as the last UAW-child is dead, and the infant grandchildren have no knowledge of the last 50 years...once we have an "un-brainwashed brain" to work with, only then will sanity return and a quality product will be manufactured...they could save some time and drive to Marysville, Ohio and see what Honda is doing, but that would imply SOME level of intelligence, and I DID say they were UAW people, so that kinda eliminates the possibility of SOME level of intelligence...
20 years from now they will STILL be wondering how it happened...they still believe that floorsweepers and left-side lug-nut tighteners are worth $35/hour plus benefits...their ignorance is beyond belief...
One word...STRIKE.
Up until the last few years (since the foreign makes have taken hold with quality products) there wasn't a politician with the guts to go strike busting on the Big three. It simply would cost too many votes, and a vote is worth more to a politcian than anything else.
But, in no way take that comment as a defense of management. At some point, the top dogs should have told the public the simple truth, which was the old ways of doing business could no longer be sustained in a global marketing environment.
But, like the UAW management, they simply chose to take the money and kick the can a bit further on down the road.
Its an eeriely similar situation to the US government today and how we as a country view our national financial condition. Just like the Big three, our reconing day is fast approaching...
Do you really think that expensive contracts (gained while the striking UAW tried to shut down auto manufacturing at a cost of $millions) have no effect on product decisions? If your competitor can make something cheaper, and you have to have cost parity and your labor and benefits are much higher, do you really think that quality may not be affected?
It was the Management's fault for not breaking the union, and for agreeing to the expensive contracts. Given that the contracts were in place, it was a sensible (but flawed) set of decisions that they try to cut product costs to remain competitive.
What is the common denominator in failed auto companies? The UAW!
C >> Failed (UAW)
GM >> Failed (UAW)
F >> Nearly Failed (UAW, moving manufacturing out of the country)
Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Honda, BMW, Subaru, etc.
>> successful manufacturing in the US (no UAW)
To pretend that the UAW did not have a huge part in the downfall of Detroit is sticking a head in the sand.
Roger Smith had that chance in 1983 or 1984 IIRC...he blew the best chance any company ever had...
Regards:
OldCEM
The profits go to the shareholders, many of whom live in the U.S. You can buy shares in Toyota & Honda (via ADRs) from your broker. If you do, your share of the profits, in the form of dividends, will be deposited in your brokerage account for you to spend or reinvest as you see fit.
And what part of "temporary" don't you understand? :confuse:
How many "permanent" GM employees have lost their jobs lately? Did that take good care of them?
Good point! When trying to compete at a given price point, every expense is critical. A management team vs a labor team, and both wanting all the eggs they can squeeze out of the goose, leaves little room for profits unless the expenses can be controlled through using 2nd and 3rd tier parts.
As someone pointed out above, much of the profits belong to the stock holders. Also the businesses serving and servicing the plants create American jobs. So the HOME OFFICE of the manufacturer, foreign or domestic, has little effect in the overall scheme of things. I'm more concerned with the product they turn out. I personally don't care where that Home Office is as long as American Workers can earn a living.
>"And those good Toyota non-union wages - how long will they last if the UAW contracts disappear?"
Generally speaking, companies pay what is necessary to get good workers. For instance, most will not pay an assembly line worker as well as a hospital will pay a nurse. Although UAW seems to think they deserve to make the same. There is a huge difference in the value of the job, as well as the education necessary to obtain those jobs. But manufacturing plants, in general will compete with each other for the best workers and will pay the necessary wages to obtain them.
If the D3 "Brilliant" management teams and the "Brilliant" UAW had thought this through, they would have realized they were strangling a weakening goose. But they were all more interested in "Self".
Why didn't D3 management stop the lines and say, "We are getting our butts kicked by the Asians superior products. You can strike as long as you like, but the line doesn't start again until we can all collectively develop a plan to compete successfully."
Why didn't the UAW understand the same thing, and say, "Hey, we are building crap. And we are not proud of our products. Get serious or prepare for a strike!"
Seems that nobody understood that they were putting themselves out of business.
Why would the public want to buy from idiots building inferior products? Even though the profits, real or imagined, were making those in the Tall D3 corporate office buildings richer?
Me thinks that Toyota had an eye opener recently. They tried too hard to get too big too fast. They are now spending Zillions because of that. But unlike D3, they publicly admitted their mistakes. They admitted they had let their quality slip. Therefore , at least for the time being, they are likely the most serious about their quality.
And now GM is advertising the Buick born in Germany. The add mentioned Germany a few times and catch words like the Autobahn and so forth.
Well German and UAW workers may have a different set of standards.
"Let the best car win!'
Kip
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not at all for unusual for "Smart" companies to hire temp workers. Especially in peak times. Those "temps" are watched and when a permenant employee is needed, the "best" are offered full time jobs. Temps understand they are temporary!
If times get tough they can lay off temps without having to lay off those that have come to depend on the job to feed their families. Unforced loyalty to the employees, will result in the employees loyalty to the company. Seems that management and labor work together to produce superior products.
Unlike D3 Management VS labor!
My son worked PT at Yamaha through an agency. When they needed a permenant worker he was hired full time. He took advantage of training and opportunities they offered. He has climbed through the ranks and now has a good job and plenty of opportunities if he chooses to climb higher.
Point is he didn't sit around installing lug nuts and expect good thing to happen "Just Because". He has initiative!
Kip