>"If the UAW wants to keep people from buying Toyotas, instead of picketing dealers, they should simply ask the dealerships' slimy salesmen to stand out front. "
Good idea! But better yet they could put the GM sales person out there, as they don't have much to do right now!
"June sales for Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac increased by a combined 36 percent to 194,828 units in the United States. This is the sixth straight month in which sales for GM’s brands increased year-over-year by more than 20 percent. Year-to-date sales for the four brands also have risen 32 percent to 1,069,577 units – an increase of 258,368 units compared to last year. "
Unfortunately they don't even have to do that. There are slimy salesman from so many different unreputable stealerships from each manufacturer around the country who stand out front and can't even let you get out of your car before jumping on top of you!
Got to try and stay away from those kinds of stealerships! Lucky, the only local stealership that does that where I live is Hyundai, but I've seen it at many others over the years. Luckily, when I do see it, I just keep on driving by!
"but those plants are foreign property, whose profits leave our shores"
So Brits shouldn't buy Fords, Germans shouldn't buy Opels (they are owned by GM) and Americans shouldn't buy Chryslers because Fiat is now running them? You can't have it both ways.
Didn't toyota have as much as 40% of their workers at Georgetown on temporary status ,dangling the carrot of possible fulltime employment, eventually? Of course that makes it easier to say you "took care" of your workers during slowdowns in TV PR commercials.: you dismissed those part time workers and claimed you kept the full timer workers busy painting the plant! I'd put this in the same category as how toyota took good care of sudden engine acceleration problems since 2002.
AFAIK (from the tech industry), Federal work rules don't allow temporary workers to be used more than 6 months for a given person. Otherwise it is not "temporary". You can drop the first temp and hire a replacement temp, though. So nobody would be working for more than 6 months and they would understand that their job is REALLY temporary.
If this is what is really happening, then it also says that a) it takes few skills for the job, since you can get productive work out of a temp without a lot of training; and b) the temp wages are fair if that many people are available and willing to work for those wages.
+1!!! Just further proof, as if we needed it, that Toyota is just another car company. Nothing special. They all do these things. Period. And, yes, the key is the product, the vehicle - is it desirable; affordable? Everything else is just hype.
"If this is what is really happening, then it also says that a) it takes few skills for the job, since you can get productive work out of a temp without a lot of training"
If what you say is true, then that is the entire point I have been making for a few years now...to try and convince me that this is anything but unskilled labor is ludicrous...and remember, Toy and Honda are known for cross training their employees, so the same person can often work in different areas, whereas the UAW folks only perform one job (archaic work rules that raise overhead for no other reason than to raise overhead) and are barely capable of performing that one job competently, since quality workmanship is rarely present in more than one or two models...I often wonder if the quality products, like Lacrosse and CTS are made by UAW workers that are cherry picked because they are too new to be brainwashed into the thinking that sabotaging the product is the way to get back at "the man"...
Didn't toyota have as much as 40% of their workers at Georgetown on temporary status ,dangling the carrot of possible fulltime employment, eventually?
Who cares? When I'm shopping for a new car, I pay exactly no attention to stuff like this. I want the most car for my money, & I'll consider pretty much any car made by a manufacturer that manages to avoid BP-style screwups.
I don't see a Toyota in my future, but that's not because of UA, which is right up there with global warming in the mythology department. Toyota just isn't making anything right now that excites me.
So far, most of the discussion has centered around the Asian brands, but it seems to me that the European brands - particularly the premium German makers - have curb-stomped the American luxury nameplates & in doing so have cost the domestics billions, if not tens of billions, in profits.
When I was a kid, the parking lot of the most exclusive country club in town was filled with Cadillacs & Lincolns. Today, you'll see mostly BMWs & Mercedes-Benzes there. (Lemko seems to be the only guy on the East Coast who still thinks that Cadillac is a prestige brand.) When you consider that the Cadillac Division was GM's cash cow back in the day, you can't help but assume that the Germans are hurting GM's bottom line at least as much as the Asians are, even if they don't sell as many units. After all, the luxury business was always where the fat margins were.
So why aren't you buy-American proponents angry at the Germans? Doesn't it bother you that they've made a shambles of the American luxury car business?
"archaic work rules that raise overhead for no other reason than to raise overhead"
I'm afraid you missed the reason buddy, restrictive work rules and classes, like featherbedding increase the UAW head count yielding more union dues to pay for their leadership and perks.
I'm going to go a bit easier on the UAW workers because I think most of them actually try to do a decent job. However, the unions protect the inept losers and sociopaths, and just a few of these in a plant can cause problems. Also, restrictive work rules drive up overhead and vehicle assembly costs, which forces D3 to find offsetting cost measures that can lead to less desirable products. However, unions have cleverly used this "brotherhood" brainwashing to make their members more loyal to the local union than their employer. You will see more of them wearing a UAW hat than a Ford or GM one even though their employer is who really provides for them. Unions rely on the old "us versus them" approach which is stupid in the long run.
Here's how I see the union problem; a century ago they were needed because business was abusive to labor. However, over time the laws have gone too far in their favor creating an uneven bargaining environment. The UAW picks the most vulnerable company to begin negotiations and then insists on pattern settlements (except recently when they screwed Ford as a reward for Ford not going to the public trough). However, D3 is not allowed to discuss or work together in these UAW pattern negotiations. This has been a big driver in dumb deals with the union, as has stupid management in the past. I believe that since the union can cherry pick one company at a time, the industry should be able to work together as a defensive matter in offsetting the unfair union advantage. That would create a more level bargaining situation that in the long run is really better for both parties since unreasonable results over time tend to result in bankruptcies or off shore sourcing.
Definitely true about the German luxury makes, especially BMW and Mercedes in particular who have been here a long time, have worked tremendously hard to build their luxury reputation and prestige and have decent sales, even last year when the car market was doing poor overall due to the recession. They must be doing something right, especially when you think how improve and better both those brands reliability issues have gotten, thus making only a stronger case of going the German luxury route for many consumers!
Toyota just isn't making anything right now that excites me.
Agreed. Neither is GM for me. The Corvette is the lone "Excitement" product GM makes because it is 40 years of development, a loyal following and a great example of what American used to represent in automotive history.
The resurrection of Mustang and Camaro were: "Ya think we should make something exciting?" discussions in the board rooms but 30-year pauses in making great cars will put you in the poor house.
Perhaps 5 years from now they will develop into the new car culture but for now they will be limited.
Detroit represents the unbalanced path that auto manufacturers decided to take vs. excitement as Job1. It remains to be seen if the competition finishes off Chrysler first and then GM next.
Great article on the Observer regarding the political and high-risk push for GM's IPO.
This WILL TAKE PLACE. No way this does not happen 'cause Dems need the :We told you so!" before the elections.
"This certainly is not the climate in which I'd want to have an IPO since it's likely to reduce the initial value of the stock," said Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl. "What's the rush - is the timing political so that the current administration can take credit for seeing it from start to finish?"
Well, Kinda, Jeremy. You see, when the new idiots on the Board finally realize that the foundation of their company can't possibly be maintained WITHOUT the bailout funds and protection under C11, it'll already be Curtains!
It is difficult to evade the suspicion that in the year since GM has emerged from bankruptcy, the corporate focus has not been on CEO Whitacre's stated singular goal of designing and building the world's best vehicles but on financial matters that have scant bearing on that process:
-- Almost from the day it emerged from bankruptcy, executives spoke of the IPO and of GM's need to slide out of its government shackles. But too often, the context has not been of creating a stronger company with consistently successful products - in whatever time it takes - in order to assure taxpayer return. Instead, GM officials talk openly about making haste with the IPO to cure ills on such matters as federal oversight on executive compensation.
-- Another rationalization for a speedy IPO has been that GM is losing sales because of the "Government Motors" stigma.
That damage has been done. And if GM still believes government ownership is a disgrace keeping customers away, one wouldn't know it from the rosy talk about sales every month, including almost constant reminders that GM's new models are selling so well it can't make them fast enough.
Yada, yada yada. At the end of the day, GM is sucking wind and Blowing Smoke. Those that think GM is a NEW company are in for a blinding reminder of history.
And now the final blow:
If GM needs fresh cash injections and funny accounting to tart itself up for Wall Street, it's not a stretch to conclude the company is pushing for an IPO largely to rid itself of government ownership as quickly as possible. That's a necessary endgame, but it should happen in a responsible timeline that attempts to maximize the public's return on its investment and assure the long-term health of the company.
I thought I was clear that people should buy whatever car they prefer; just pointing out that foreign companies, despite a smattering of US stockholders' dividends, ship most of their profits from their American operations back home. To my knowledge, there are NO such US plants in Japan.
>"When I was a kid, the parking lot of the most exclusive country club in town was filled with Cadillacs & Lincolns. Today, you'll see mostly BMWs & Mercedes-Benzes there. (Lemko seems to be the only guy on the East Coast who still thinks that Cadillac is a prestige brand.)"
Starting to see a lot of 2 year and older Caddys sporting big chrome wheels and skinny tires, with "Boom Boxes" blasting full tilt. Apparently the used ones can be bought real reasonable!
Reminds me of my trip to New Orleans last fall. The "blinged out, clapped out" trap of choice was either a Cadillac of some kind, a Yukon/Tahoe or surprisingly, the mid-80's Caprice.
I honestly believe the reason for the obnoxious booming stereo was to cover up the numerous squeeks, groans and rattles that these things made rolling (wobbling) down the street...
Reminds me of my trip to New Orleans last fall. The "blinged out, clapped out" trap of choice was either a Cadillac of some kind, a Yukon/Tahoe or surprisingly, the mid-80's Caprice.
Doesn't surprise me. I remember a few years ago, coming across a list of the top ten stolen cars in Mississippi. The list was very detailed as it broke it down not just by model, but year. The 1985 Delta 88 was actually still in the top ten, even though it was close to 20 years old at the time.
What's that old saying...GM cars run bad longer than most cars run at all? :P
Not to make assumptions about the people of New Orleans, but from what I remember those cars back in the day were extremely easy to break into and steal. Had a 1987 Cutlass Salon stolen from me the day of my graduation ceremony from my first college. I locked my keys in it a couple of times as well and could pop the lock using a coat hanger down the inside of the door panel. :shades:
A short while back my BIL's Chevy Astro Van was stolen from a Walmart parking lot. They found it a mile or so from the store on the side of the road, abandoned.
My BIL said they had probably taken it to drive through the front of a liquor store, but it didn't make it that far! :sick:
He said, " Well it does have a hundred thousand and (something) miles on it."
I recon we can't expect one of those to run forever.
Within the last month or so, he finally sold his Dakota for $200 to a salvage (junk) yard. Pretty sure they were getting nervous about the village people showing up at night with torches and pitch forks and demanding he dispose of it.
Yeah, they were pretty easy to break into. Heck, on the 2-door models with the frameless windows, you could just bend the window glass out a bit, get the coat hanger in, and hook the mushroom lock. Even on models with framed windows, there was enough flex in the door frame to get a coat hanger in. I broke into my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, and my '89 Gran Fury, this way.
And, once your inside, well, anybody who's ever seen the first "Terminator" movie, and countless other movies and shows, I'm sure, knows how to hotwire one.
I'm surprised anybody is buying cars from anywhere when I see stories like these:
I live outside of Elkhart, Indiana where 95% of the factories shut down. The effects of factories shutting down had a ripple affect. Within 6 months to a year, restaurants and Mom and Pop shops closed down. This is this first time I have been unemployed in over 20 years. IT SUCKS! At least I can say it gave me the courage to go back to school in the fall. There are no jobs here. I used to think people that couldn't find jobs were a joke; that they were just lazy. But I have soon found out, it is harder to find work when you have thousands upon thousands appling for jobs. Most jobs in this area require a degree when at one time they did not. Notre Dame University is just around the corner and there just isn't any work. Some employers are paying less and treating employees badly due to the fact we need whatever job comes our way with no benefits, no respect ad/or a schedule that is entirely a joke. School isn't for everyone, not to mention what is everyone going to do when we all have degrees and there still is no work. I have a friend who went to school just to land a job making $13/hr. Sometimes what looks good on paper isn't always the right thing. I know companies need to save money, but outsourcing our jobs isn't the way to go. The more employment you take away, the longer the welfare lines will get as well as food bank lines. The less people have, the more crime and child abuse. Think about that.
I want to work, and I need health benefits. I have been out of work for 10 months. I apply to at least 10-20 jobs a day. In case you did not notice, employers are very selective; getting highly qualified candidates at menial levels and have driven down wages. I do not fault people for getting top dollar quality and bargain prices, but at 10% unemployment, you can see how this would be a problem for a guy like me. I have a degree from PSU (Let's Go State!), and experience in marketing, sales, and project management. I am also a type 1 diabetic. You see,that effects a lot of things, for with out insurance, the 2 types of insulin I take are $120 and $140 respectively, as well as the test strips running in the $80 range (for generics) you can imagine, $8/hr really doesn't cover all that. So, hey, I am willing to work for a fair wage, do you mind directing me to these companies, especially if they are in the Philadelphia area?
I have been out of work since October, 2008 and the only work I have found is for the 2010 Census. In case you don't know, those jobs are part time and temporary. I want a full-time permanent job. To that end, I have sent out probably a thousand resumes since October 2008. I have had fewer than 10 interviews. Where are these jobs? If there are at least five unemployed persons out there applying for each open job, which only one of them will get, doesn't it stand to reason that more jobs need to be brought back or created? And by "jobs" I mean full-time permanent jobs with decent pay. I don't see that happening.
Extended benefits have ended in Pennsylvania. You only get 26 weeks. Now we all go out and find the jobs that are out there. They pay between $8 and $10 an hour. We have to take them as there is nothing else. Now we can't afford our mortgage, the house is foreclosed, it is in your neighborhood and now no one wants to live there what with all the foreclosures. Now your house is worth even less. We will need affordable rental properties or the homeless will overrun the city. So now the city is even more unattractive to prospective empoyers so no new jobs. People can't afford transportation, food, clothing and utilities so there are many more layoffs. This time it might even hit you. So close your eyes and pretend this is about lazy people because to really think about what is happening is too scary. You will never be like those unemployed bums. Neither was I, until after working continuously for 40 years I was layed off at 57. Don't ever think it won't happen to you.
I worked for the same company for almost 30 years. In 2007 this individually-owned company was bought out by a large conglomerate with headquarters across the pond. In 2008, I was laid off. There I was at the age of 61. Who the heck is going to hire me? I know age discrimination is illegal, but you have to prove it first!!! I did the required looking for work and submitting my attempts when filing my unemployment claim. I might have gotten a 10% response and for most of my attempts was from answering ads in the newspaper. I am sure when they saw how long I was with my last employer, my resume, regardless how qualified I might have been, went in trash. And I was not even looking for full time work. I would have been happy with a part time job. It was weird at the age of 61 collecting unemployment for the first time in my life. However, when you are considered too old for even a job interview, what else do you have??!!
""archaic work rules that raise overhead for no other reason than to raise overhead"
I'm afraid you missed the reason buddy, restrictive work rules and classes, like featherbedding increase the UAW head count yielding more union dues to pay for their leadership and perks."
Actually, berri, I didn't miss it, I just abbreviated my post...you know how I hate long posters... :P
Really, your reasons simply add to mine...you have only supported my thoughts on how destructive the UAW has been for about 30-40 years...necessary back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s...60s, unsure...by the 70s they were on the course to destroy the American auto industry...while I do not have the source of any statistics (do I ever???) I am sure that the 70s to the 80s was the time that car prices started rising quickly, where the cost of a car took more and more of someone's salary...one can argue that the salaries did not keep up with inflation, I would guess that cars and home prices were the items rising the fastest, and then everyone overextended themselves buying more car or more house than they could really afford, leading us into car loans of 5,6,7 years, and folks buying homes way out of their income level, hoping that inflation would "take care of it"...it did...until it stopped...
Now I think you will see Society go back to buying what they can afford (altho, ironically, they can now buy more house than ever)...once they realize they can live without the toys (plasma TVs, $600 iPhones, X-boxes, Playstation, $200 monthly satellite TV bills, etc.) we will be even better off as a society...
Truly you are in a heart wrenching situation. And you must be in a state of complete frustration. Don't know if you are married or if there is any income from a spouse or investments. Don't know if there was any type of retirement or buy out program from your job.
I know that several times in my life, even though I may be working 2 jobs, my wife had to go to work to help with the bills. Jobs were not available that would cover expenses of our children being in day care. So she improvised with things she could do at home or take the pre school children with her and be at home when the school aged ones got home.
The job that paid the best was cleaning houses for folks. That allowed her to take the preschoolers with her. She would do that early and be home when the kids got home.
She did that while perusing a BSRN nursing degree. Her schooling was part time because of the expense. She mostly schooled at night so I could be with the kids. Sometimes friends or family had to help out if I had to work late. Even after 10 years and finally completing the RN portion and going to work for a hospital, she took the 11PM- 7AM shift so the kids always had someone with them. It took her another 5 years or so to get the BS portion, going part time.
I retired in '96 and started taking SS in 2003 at age 62. After retirement I took a PT job at Home Depot. Pay was $9 per hour. Stayed there a couple of years until my knee gave up. Then got a PT job at a Gun store/shooting range. I will be 69 next month and still work there. It is a $10 an hour job and I feel blessed to have it. If I choose to work full time, $400 a week beats nothing.
We have truly been blessed as we were always able to find or create some source of income. With SS, a small retirement, and the Gun store income I'm contributing as best I can. My wife is still working 4 days a week until she decides to stop.
Point is, there is a way if there is a will. Sometimes we have to look outside the box. Sometimes we have to sacrifice something. We may have to relocate to find employment. We may have to take a job below our education level and below our income expectations. We certainly did! But we kept on keeping on. We aren't rich by any means but we have all we need and most of what we want. And we are content.
You will soon be eligible for Social Security. That is one source of income! A place to start. If your house is not paid for you might loose it and be forced to maybe find a new location where there are jobs.
I will say this: Be truly "Thankful" for what you have, be diligent in your quest, never give up, "have faith", go where you are led, and think outside your comfort zone. You will be OK.
Here, in upstate SC, its just as bad. The BMW plant is expanding, and has announced it is hiring 500 new employees @$15/hr plus benefits.
One can't imagine the number of people showing up at the job fairs for these jobs. There is one today in Spartanburg, and the noon-time local news said over 600 have been interviewed in a couple of hours. People were camping outside the building, and so many are in line (at noon) that they have told any additional arrivals that they will not be seen today.
In another example, 3-4 months ago, the local AA baseball stadium was having a job fair for about 50 stadium jobs during baseball games (beer servers, ticket takers, etc.). Over 1000 applicants turned out for those jobs. Not so long ago, no one would have shown up. I spoke with a guy serving beer at a game (57 years old), and he was just thankful to have ANYTHING!
Like I said...Its not just Indiana...its everywhere. Like them or not, the off-shore companies have been a blessing for this area. While domestics were packing up and leaving (textiles mainly), these companies invested in the area and its people, and are, for the most part, viewed very positively here. One might not like it, but, what's a viable alternative?
To my knowledge, there are NO such US plants in Japan.
That's because U.S. manufacturers decided many years ago - back in the 1960s, I believe - that they wouldn't make the investment required to satisfy Japanese market demands. The Japanese, like the British, drive on the left side of the road, which means that the steering wheel & other driver controls must be on the right side of the car. The D3 shipped some left-hand drive cars to showrooms & then wondered why no one bought them.
Would you want to operate a right-hand drive car on our roads? I'm inclined to doubt it.
>Would you want to operate a right-hand drive car on our roads? I'm inclined to doubt it.
I see it fairly regularly here in beautiful Western Ohio. Some postal delivery folk have vehicles with the steering wheel on the right. I believe there's a Subaru and a Saturn.
The main reason any foreign car company invests in a plant in the US is to provide well paying auto industry jobs to Americans. Their profits are reduced but they make the Americans Happy. It would be cheaper to build them elsewhere and ship them to the US. Shipping and tariffs are low costs. Labor is cheap in Japan. Land for expanding a plant is plentiful in Japan. The Japanese car companies opt for the high talent at high cost by hiring Americans in places like Kentucky and West Virginia.
The engineering and management have been mostly moved here too. Since profits are now pitiful in Japan, management pay in Japan is very low. They now do most of the high paid design and decision making here. That's why the cars keep getting better and better. Parents in the midwest can't see their college age kids anymore in summers because they are all away at internships at Toyota, Hundai, Honda, Mitsu, etc. design centers spread through the midwest.
"Labor is cheap in Japan. Land for expanding a plant is plentiful in Japan."
Actually, Japan is a pretty expensive place and rather useable land constrained. Politics and logistics certainly play a roll in transplant factories here, but I think the biggest driver is currency fluctuations. Locating some engineering and marketing here is a wise move because many products are now developed specifically for the US market, unlike years past when everything was just modified from home market models. That's why some of the foreign firms new models here now have teething problems just like D3.
Great article and unfortunately too true! I really think Ford needs to forget state incentives and close the Missouri plant as the Escape fades away. This plant UAW was pretty militant against Ford while Ford was trying to keep a level playing field with taxpayer bailed out GM and Chrsyler. Ford needs to shut it and send Mr. King a real world message. As for Mr. Jackson, I think trying to play the Cleveland LeBron situation into a race issue showed just how ridiculous he can get. I think he lost some more credibility with the "slave" line and a multimillion dollar NBA star.
... I think trying to play the Cleveland LeBron situation into a race issue showed just how ridiculous he can get. I think he lost some more credibility with the "slave" line and a multimillion dollar NBA star.
If that's the definition of slavery, then I want to be a slave!
>As for Mr. Jackson, I think trying to play the Cleveland LeBron situation into a race issue showed just how ridiculous he can get. I think he lost some more credibility with the "slave" line and a multimillion dollar NBA star.
The kid was given unfair breaks when his eligibility was questioned under the OHSAA (Ohio High School Athletic Association) rules while he was in high school . He, in my opinion, had violated the rules already then, but because he was a special person as an extra good player it was overlooked by the OHSAA. And Jackson has the nerve to suggest he's been treated unfairly.
"Not only did American consumers embrace the imports in droves, an entire generation walked away from the Detroit Three’s run of slipshod or nonexistent quality vehicles, never to return."...
Thanks, I owe you one...make sure rocky sees this article, it is written in such plain English even he might understand how ignorant and stupid these UAW people are...
And, they are going to march for "jobs" in August...where, you say???...in Detroit, where they may not even need a permit because there are no people left in Detroit, so the traffic lights do not need to work (nothing there EVER worked, including UAW people) and there will be no one to watch...even Detroit television might ignore it, as it might pre-empt reruns of Golden Girls, which actually has sponsors paying for it...
That author has even more disdain and a more realistic viewpoint of the destructive nature of the UAW that I do, and I thought I was the expert...no, he is...as he acknowledged the need for unions in the distant past, but the absolute destruction they have left in the last 40 years...I almost thought I wrote that article...
News reports say today that since Toyota considers the US market stagnant, they will build a $600,000,000 plant to serve South America. Although they have resumed work on a new Prius [now Corolla] plant in Mississippi, it looks like, once again, they're just another car company.
"Not only did American consumers embrace the imports in droves, an entire generation walked away from the Detroit Three’s run of slipshod or nonexistent quality vehicles, never to return."...
You are exactly correct and now these same consumers have lost their jobs and can't figure out why.
I also had problems with the ads last night, cutting off the "reply" button, but it seems OK now...
coontie: "You are exactly correct and now these same consumers have lost their jobs and can't figure out why"...I think I see where you are going, but I still somehow have trouble justifying buying a shoddy product of such great expense just to keep my neighbor employed...whatever happened to pride of workmanship, something the UAW cannot comprehend...
We bought Hondas and Toyotas, many of which are made here, and we created jobs for many folks in Tenn, GA, Miss, Ky, etc.
We didn't lose the jobs, we shifted them from north to south...we lost UAW union jobs, but they were the cancer destroying everything America used to stand for...quality, workmanship, etc....none of that ever comes from a UAW made product, so we took our money elsewhere...and will probably continue to do so...
Comments
Good idea! But better yet they could put the GM sales person out there, as they don't have much to do right now!
Kip
I realize it makes a cute punch line and follows the old stereotype many want to perpetuate about some cars, but...
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/P- ages/news/us/en/2010/July/0701_gmsales
"June sales for Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac increased by a combined 36 percent to 194,828 units in the United States. This is the sixth straight month in which sales for GM’s brands increased year-over-year by more than 20 percent. Year-to-date sales for the four brands also have risen 32 percent to 1,069,577 units – an increase of 258,368 units compared to last year. "
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Got to try and stay away from those kinds of stealerships! Lucky, the only local stealership that does that where I live is Hyundai, but I've seen it at many others over the years. Luckily, when I do see it, I just keep on driving by!
So Brits shouldn't buy Fords, Germans shouldn't buy Opels (they are owned by GM) and Americans shouldn't buy Chryslers because Fiat is now running them? You can't have it both ways.
Isn't it surprising just how many DO think they can have it both ways?
AFAIK (from the tech industry), Federal work rules don't allow temporary workers to be used more than 6 months for a given person. Otherwise it is not "temporary". You can drop the first temp and hire a replacement temp, though. So nobody would be working for more than 6 months and they would understand that their job is REALLY temporary.
If this is what is really happening, then it also says that a) it takes few skills for the job, since you can get productive work out of a temp without a lot of training; and b) the temp wages are fair if that many people are available and willing to work for those wages.
If what you say is true, then that is the entire point I have been making for a few years now...to try and convince me that this is anything but unskilled labor is ludicrous...and remember, Toy and Honda are known for cross training their employees, so the same person can often work in different areas, whereas the UAW folks only perform one job (archaic work rules that raise overhead for no other reason than to raise overhead) and are barely capable of performing that one job competently, since quality workmanship is rarely present in more than one or two models...I often wonder if the quality products, like Lacrosse and CTS are made by UAW workers that are cherry picked because they are too new to be brainwashed into the thinking that sabotaging the product is the way to get back at "the man"...
Who cares? When I'm shopping for a new car, I pay exactly no attention to stuff like this. I want the most car for my money, & I'll consider pretty much any car made by a manufacturer that manages to avoid BP-style screwups.
I don't see a Toyota in my future, but that's not because of UA, which is right up there with global warming in the mythology department. Toyota just isn't making anything right now that excites me.
When I was a kid, the parking lot of the most exclusive country club in town was filled with Cadillacs & Lincolns. Today, you'll see mostly BMWs & Mercedes-Benzes there. (Lemko seems to be the only guy on the East Coast who still thinks that Cadillac is a prestige brand.) When you consider that the Cadillac Division was GM's cash cow back in the day, you can't help but assume that the Germans are hurting GM's bottom line at least as much as the Asians are, even if they don't sell as many units. After all, the luxury business was always where the fat margins were.
So why aren't you buy-American proponents angry at the Germans? Doesn't it bother you that they've made a shambles of the American luxury car business?
I'm afraid you missed the reason buddy, restrictive work rules and classes, like featherbedding increase the UAW head count yielding more union dues to pay for their leadership and perks.
I'm going to go a bit easier on the UAW workers because I think most of them actually try to do a decent job. However, the unions protect the inept losers and sociopaths, and just a few of these in a plant can cause problems. Also, restrictive work rules drive up overhead and vehicle assembly costs, which forces D3 to find offsetting cost measures that can lead to less desirable products. However, unions have cleverly used this "brotherhood" brainwashing to make their members more loyal to the local union than their employer. You will see more of them wearing a UAW hat than a Ford or GM one even though their employer is who really provides for them. Unions rely on the old "us versus them" approach which is stupid in the long run.
Here's how I see the union problem; a century ago they were needed because business was abusive to labor. However, over time the laws have gone too far in their favor creating an uneven bargaining environment. The UAW picks the most vulnerable company to begin negotiations and then insists on pattern settlements (except recently when they screwed Ford as a reward for Ford not going to the public trough). However, D3 is not allowed to discuss or work together in these UAW pattern negotiations. This has been a big driver in dumb deals with the union, as has stupid management in the past. I believe that since the union can cherry pick one company at a time, the industry should be able to work together as a defensive matter in offsetting the unfair union advantage. That would create a more level bargaining situation that in the long run is really better for both parties since unreasonable results over time tend to result in bankruptcies or off shore sourcing.
Agreed. Neither is GM for me. The Corvette is the lone "Excitement" product GM makes because it is 40 years of development, a loyal following and a great example of what American used to represent in automotive history.
The resurrection of Mustang and Camaro were: "Ya think we should make something exciting?" discussions in the board rooms but 30-year pauses in making great cars will put you in the poor house.
Perhaps 5 years from now they will develop into the new car culture but for now they will be limited.
Detroit represents the unbalanced path that auto manufacturers decided to take vs. excitement as Job1. It remains to be seen if the competition finishes off Chrysler first and then GM next.
Regards,
OW
This WILL TAKE PLACE. No way this does not happen 'cause Dems need the :We told you so!" before the elections.
"This certainly is not the climate in which I'd want to have an IPO since it's likely to reduce the initial value of the stock," said Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl. "What's the rush - is the timing political so that the current administration can take credit for seeing it from start to finish?"
Well, Kinda, Jeremy. You see, when the new idiots on the Board finally realize that the foundation of their company can't possibly be maintained WITHOUT the bailout funds and protection under C11, it'll already be Curtains!
It is difficult to evade the suspicion that in the year since GM has emerged from bankruptcy, the corporate focus has not been on CEO Whitacre's stated singular goal of designing and building the world's best vehicles but on financial matters that have scant bearing on that process:
-- Almost from the day it emerged from bankruptcy, executives spoke of the IPO and of GM's need to slide out of its government shackles. But too often, the context has not been of creating a stronger company with consistently successful products - in whatever time it takes - in order to assure taxpayer return. Instead, GM officials talk openly about making haste with the IPO to cure ills on such matters as federal oversight on executive compensation.
-- Another rationalization for a speedy IPO has been that GM is losing sales because of the "Government Motors" stigma.
That damage has been done. And if GM still believes government ownership is a disgrace keeping customers away, one wouldn't know it from the rosy talk about sales every month, including almost constant reminders that GM's new models are selling so well it can't make them fast enough.
Yada, yada yada. At the end of the day, GM is sucking wind and Blowing Smoke. Those that think GM is a NEW company are in for a blinding reminder of history.
And now the final blow:
If GM needs fresh cash injections and funny accounting to tart itself up for Wall Street, it's not a stretch to conclude the company is pushing for an IPO largely to rid itself of government ownership as quickly as possible. That's a necessary endgame, but it should happen in a responsible timeline that attempts to maximize the public's return on its investment and assure the long-term health of the company.
Hee, Hee!!
With Drive for IPO, GM Showing Old Habits
Well, DO YA PUNK???
Regards,
OW
Regards:
Oldengineer
Starting to see a lot of 2 year and older Caddys sporting big chrome wheels and skinny tires, with "Boom Boxes" blasting full tilt. Apparently the used ones can be bought real reasonable!
Kip
I honestly believe the reason for the obnoxious booming stereo was to cover up the numerous squeeks, groans and rattles that these things made rolling (wobbling) down the street...
Doesn't surprise me. I remember a few years ago, coming across a list of the top ten stolen cars in Mississippi. The list was very detailed as it broke it down not just by model, but year. The 1985 Delta 88 was actually still in the top ten, even though it was close to 20 years old at the time.
What's that old saying...GM cars run bad longer than most cars run at all? :P
My BIL said they had probably taken it to drive through the front of a liquor store, but it didn't make it that far! :sick:
He said, " Well it does have a hundred thousand and (something) miles on it."
I recon we can't expect one of those to run forever.
Within the last month or so, he finally sold his Dakota for $200 to a salvage (junk) yard. Pretty sure they were getting nervous about the village people showing up at night with torches and pitch forks and demanding he dispose of it.
Kip
And, once your inside, well, anybody who's ever seen the first "Terminator" movie, and countless other movies and shows, I'm sure, knows how to hotwire one.
I live outside of Elkhart, Indiana where 95% of the factories shut down. The effects of factories shutting down had a ripple affect. Within 6 months to a year, restaurants and Mom and Pop shops closed down. This is this first time I have been unemployed in over 20 years. IT SUCKS! At least I can say it gave me the courage to go back to school in the fall. There are no jobs here. I used to think people that couldn't find jobs were a joke; that they were just lazy. But I have soon found out, it is harder to find work when you have thousands upon thousands appling for jobs. Most jobs in this area require a degree when at one time they did not. Notre Dame University is just around the corner and there just isn't any work. Some employers are paying less and treating employees badly due to the fact we need whatever job comes our way with no benefits, no respect ad/or a schedule that is entirely a joke. School isn't for everyone, not to mention what is everyone going to do when we all have degrees and there still is no work. I have a friend who went to school just to land a job making $13/hr. Sometimes what looks good on paper isn't always the right thing. I know companies need to save money, but outsourcing our jobs isn't the way to go. The more employment you take away, the longer the welfare lines will get as well as food bank lines. The less people have, the more crime and child abuse. Think about that.
I want to work, and I need health benefits. I have been out of work for 10 months. I apply to at least 10-20 jobs a day. In case you did not notice, employers are very selective; getting highly qualified candidates at menial levels and have driven down wages. I do not fault people for getting top dollar quality and bargain prices, but at 10% unemployment, you can see how this would be a problem for a guy like me. I have a degree from PSU (Let's Go State!), and experience in marketing, sales, and project management. I am also a type 1 diabetic. You see,that effects a lot of things, for with out insurance, the 2 types of insulin I take are $120 and $140 respectively, as well as the test strips running in the $80 range (for generics) you can imagine, $8/hr really doesn't cover all that. So, hey, I am willing to work for a fair wage, do you mind directing me to these companies, especially if they are in the Philadelphia area?
I have been out of work since October, 2008 and the only work I have found is for the 2010 Census. In case you don't know, those jobs are part time and temporary. I want a full-time permanent job. To that end, I have sent out probably a thousand resumes since October 2008. I have had fewer than 10 interviews. Where are these jobs? If there are at least five unemployed persons out there applying for each open job, which only one of them will get, doesn't it stand to reason that more jobs need to be brought back or created? And by "jobs" I mean full-time permanent jobs with decent pay. I don't see that happening.
Extended benefits have ended in Pennsylvania. You only get 26 weeks. Now we all go out and find the jobs that are out there. They pay between $8 and $10 an hour. We have to take them as there is nothing else. Now we can't afford our mortgage, the house is foreclosed, it is in your neighborhood and now no one wants to live there what with all the foreclosures. Now your house is worth even less. We will need affordable rental properties or the homeless will overrun the city. So now the city is even more unattractive to prospective empoyers so no new jobs. People can't afford transportation, food, clothing and utilities so there are many more layoffs. This time it might even hit you. So close your eyes and pretend this is about lazy people because to really think about what is happening is too scary. You will never be like those unemployed bums. Neither was I, until after working continuously for 40 years I was layed off at 57. Don't ever think it won't happen to you.
I worked for the same company for almost 30 years. In 2007 this individually-owned company was bought out by a large conglomerate with headquarters across the pond. In 2008, I was laid off. There I was at the age of 61. Who the heck is going to hire me? I know age discrimination is illegal, but you have to prove it first!!! I did the required looking for work and submitting my attempts when filing my unemployment claim. I might have gotten a 10% response and for most of my attempts was from answering ads in the newspaper. I am sure when they saw how long I was with my last employer, my resume, regardless how qualified I might have been, went in trash. And I was not even looking for full time work. I would have been happy with a part time job. It was weird at the age of 61 collecting unemployment for the first time in my life. However, when you are considered too old for even a job interview, what else do you have??!!
I'm afraid you missed the reason buddy, restrictive work rules and classes, like featherbedding increase the UAW head count yielding more union dues to pay for their leadership and perks."
Actually, berri, I didn't miss it, I just abbreviated my post...you know how I hate long posters... :P
Really, your reasons simply add to mine...you have only supported my thoughts on how destructive the UAW has been for about 30-40 years...necessary back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s...60s, unsure...by the 70s they were on the course to destroy the American auto industry...while I do not have the source of any statistics (do I ever???) I am sure that the 70s to the 80s was the time that car prices started rising quickly, where the cost of a car took more and more of someone's salary...one can argue that the salaries did not keep up with inflation, I would guess that cars and home prices were the items rising the fastest, and then everyone overextended themselves buying more car or more house than they could really afford, leading us into car loans of 5,6,7 years, and folks buying homes way out of their income level, hoping that inflation would "take care of it"...it did...until it stopped...
Now I think you will see Society go back to buying what they can afford (altho, ironically, they can now buy more house than ever)...once they realize they can live without the toys (plasma TVs, $600 iPhones, X-boxes, Playstation, $200 monthly satellite TV bills, etc.) we will be even better off as a society...
Truly you are in a heart wrenching situation. And you must be in a state of complete frustration. Don't know if you are married or if there is any income from a spouse or investments. Don't know if there was any type of retirement or buy out program from your job.
I know that several times in my life, even though I may be working 2 jobs, my wife had to go to work to help with the bills. Jobs were not available that would cover expenses of our children being in day care. So she improvised with things she could do at home or take the pre school children with her and be at home when the school aged ones got home.
The job that paid the best was cleaning houses for folks. That allowed her to take the preschoolers with her. She would do that early and be home when the kids got home.
She did that while perusing a BSRN nursing degree. Her schooling was part time because of the expense. She mostly schooled at night so I could be with the kids. Sometimes friends or family had to help out if I had to work late. Even after 10 years and finally completing the RN portion and going to work for a hospital, she took the 11PM- 7AM shift so the kids always had someone with them. It took her another 5 years or so to get the BS portion, going part time.
I retired in '96 and started taking SS in 2003 at age 62. After retirement I took a PT job at Home Depot. Pay was $9 per hour. Stayed there a couple of years until my knee gave up. Then got a PT job at a Gun store/shooting range.
I will be 69 next month and still work there. It is a $10 an hour job and I feel blessed to have it. If I choose to work full time, $400 a week beats nothing.
We have truly been blessed as we were always able to find or create some source of income. With SS, a small retirement, and the Gun store income I'm contributing as best I can. My wife is still working 4 days a week until she decides to stop.
Point is, there is a way if there is a will. Sometimes we have to look outside the box. Sometimes we have to sacrifice something. We may have to relocate to find employment. We may have to take a job below our education level and below our income expectations. We certainly did! But we kept on keeping on. We aren't rich by any means but we have all we need and most of what we want. And we are content.
You will soon be eligible for Social Security. That is one source of income! A place to start. If your house is not paid for you might loose it and be forced to maybe find a new location where there are jobs.
I will say this: Be truly "Thankful" for what you have, be diligent in your quest, never give up, "have faith", go where you are led, and think outside your comfort zone. You will be OK.
Kip
Its bad everywhere.
Here, in upstate SC, its just as bad. The BMW plant is expanding, and has announced it is hiring 500 new employees @$15/hr plus benefits.
One can't imagine the number of people showing up at the job fairs for these jobs. There is one today in Spartanburg, and the noon-time local news said over 600 have been interviewed in a couple of hours. People were camping outside the building, and so many are in line (at noon) that they have told any additional arrivals that they will not be seen today.
In another example, 3-4 months ago, the local AA baseball stadium was having a job fair for about 50 stadium jobs during baseball games (beer servers, ticket takers, etc.). Over 1000 applicants turned out for those jobs. Not so long ago, no one would have shown up. I spoke with a guy serving beer at a game (57 years old), and he was just thankful to have ANYTHING!
Like I said...Its not just Indiana...its everywhere. Like them or not, the off-shore companies have been a blessing for this area. While domestics were packing up and leaving (textiles mainly), these companies invested in the area and its people, and are, for the most part, viewed very positively here. One might not like it, but, what's a viable alternative?
That's because U.S. manufacturers decided many years ago - back in the 1960s, I believe - that they wouldn't make the investment required to satisfy Japanese market demands. The Japanese, like the British, drive on the left side of the road, which means that the steering wheel & other driver controls must be on the right side of the car. The D3 shipped some left-hand drive cars to showrooms & then wondered why no one bought them.
Would you want to operate a right-hand drive car on our roads? I'm inclined to doubt it.
This was down in Tortola where you never get going much faster than 15 or 20 mph so not such a big deal.
I see it fairly regularly here in beautiful Western Ohio. Some postal delivery folk have vehicles with the steering wheel on the right. I believe there's a Subaru and a Saturn.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That ain't nuthin...
Why, here in SC, we have driver training vehicles with steering wheels on BOTH sides...gas and brake pedals, too!
The engineering and management have been mostly moved here too. Since profits are now pitiful in Japan, management pay in Japan is very low. They now do most of the high paid design and decision making here. That's why the cars keep getting better and better. Parents in the midwest can't see their college age kids anymore in summers because they are all away at internships at Toyota, Hundai, Honda, Mitsu, etc. design centers spread through the midwest.
The autoextremist takes on the UAW.
It's the 7/14 (posted 7/13) column.
Actually, Japan is a pretty expensive place and rather useable land constrained. Politics and logistics certainly play a roll in transplant factories here, but I think the biggest driver is currency fluctuations. Locating some engineering and marketing here is a wise move because many products are now developed specifically for the US market, unlike years past when everything was just modified from home market models. That's why some of the foreign firms new models here now have teething problems just like D3.
If that's the definition of slavery, then I want to be a slave!
The kid was given unfair breaks when his eligibility was questioned under the OHSAA (Ohio High School Athletic Association) rules while he was in high school . He, in my opinion, had violated the rules already then, but because he was a special person as an extra good player it was overlooked by the OHSAA. And Jackson has the nerve to suggest he's been treated unfairly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks, I owe you one...make sure rocky sees this article, it is written in such plain English even he might understand how ignorant and stupid these UAW people are...
And, they are going to march for "jobs" in August...where, you say???...in Detroit, where they may not even need a permit because there are no people left in Detroit, so the traffic lights do not need to work (nothing there EVER worked, including UAW people) and there will be no one to watch...even Detroit television might ignore it, as it might pre-empt reruns of Golden Girls, which actually has sponsors paying for it...
That author has even more disdain and a more realistic viewpoint of the destructive nature of the UAW that I do, and I thought I was the expert...no, he is...as he acknowledged the need for unions in the distant past, but the absolute destruction they have left in the last 40 years...I almost thought I wrote that article...
Kip
Mine is okay at 8:55 am EST.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You are exactly correct and now these same consumers have lost their jobs and can't figure out why.
coontie: "You are exactly correct and now these same consumers have lost their jobs and can't figure out why"...I think I see where you are going, but I still somehow have trouble justifying buying a shoddy product of such great expense just to keep my neighbor employed...whatever happened to pride of workmanship, something the UAW cannot comprehend...
We bought Hondas and Toyotas, many of which are made here, and we created jobs for many folks in Tenn, GA, Miss, Ky, etc.
We didn't lose the jobs, we shifted them from north to south...we lost UAW union jobs, but they were the cancer destroying everything America used to stand for...quality, workmanship, etc....none of that ever comes from a UAW made product, so we took our money elsewhere...and will probably continue to do so...
Looks like it was Lemko's Cornell-Liberty Safety Car photo that skewed the pages. Our forum software doesn't handle large images gracefully.
It was the earthquake. :P
we lost the jobs.
GM used to employ 500,000
Toyota now employs 31,000
No, I didn't leave off a zero.
UAW labor cost was where 5-10% of the price of a new car went. To generalize about their quality is also wrapping the mostly good up with the few bad.
Thought you bought a Malibu?
My neighbor bought all Hondas and then lost his job. Ironic?
The 8 million jobs are not coming back: Biden
For every green job created, two existing jobs are destroyed: European concensus, 2010.
Toyota now employs 31,000
No, I didn't leave off a zero.
"Number of GM Employees in the US"