"....Unfortunately, around that timeframe I bet a lot of people dumped nice old battlecruisers, as well as musclecars, for what they thought would be the wave of the future."
Unfortunately Andy, at $1.30/gal gasoline was more expensive in 1981 than it is now, but 15 MPG is still 15 MPG. Also, regardless of gas prices, at 15 MPG when there is gas rationing as there was in the late '70's, you ain't going far on a small amount of gas. Rationing probably turned people to the more fuel efficient imports more than high gas prices.
Rationing? Not quite. Now WWII - THAT was rationing! the worst the 70s got you was that odd-even business and there were enough exception in that that I went wherever i wanted without worrying about it.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Did they do that odd-even thing during the second gas crisis, too? If so, I don't remember it, but I was also just a kid. I do remember gas stations running out of gas fairly often, and that it was almost impossible to find a station open on Sunday. But in those days, a lot of places were closed on Sunday.
My Mom bought a new car in February 1980...a new Malibu V-6 that could easily get 20 mpg in mixed driving. Back then, we thought that was great! Her previous car was a 1975 LeMans with a 350-2bbl that was lucky to get 15-16. We had just moved to southern MD in the summer of '79, and it wasn't the commute so much that was killing my Mom. I think it went from 18 miles one way to 19, although traffic was worse. However, she got homesick so we went up to visit my grandparents every other weekend, And that was about 36 miles away.
In retrospect, that round-trip to my grandparents cost less than 5 bucks (72 miles / 20 mpg = 3.6 gal, gas would have to have gone to $1.39/gal to come out to 5 bucks), but it seemed like a lot at the time!
Plus, that LeMans was getting old. Dad had wrecked it in 1977, and it never did run right, after that.
As others have pointed out, the last time that gas rationing was actually implemented in the U.S. was during WWII. At the height of the 1st gas crunch, in 1973-74, it was widely rumored that the Federal government was planning to reimpose rationing & was printing coupon books. But that never came to pass.
I'm an old guy, which means that I was driving back then. A few months before the crunch started, a drunk plowed into my parked '69 Rambler American & destroyed it. Then my grandfather died, & I inherited his '69 Plymouth Sport Fury with a 383 4-barrel, which required premium gas & was good for about 10 mpg around town.
When the crunch was at its worst, in February, 1974, there was only 1 station selling gas in my area. It was 5 miles from home, & sales were limited to 2 gallons per car, which meant that I was burning half of each purchase just making the trip to & from the station.
Looking for a way out, I went to a local Pontiac dealership that had recently acquired a Honda franchise. I wasn't the only one with that idea. The showroom was mobbed with people who were literally fighting with one another for the privilege of paying way over sticker for a Civic. I joined them, & paid $3700 for a $2500 car equipped with an "appearance package", which consisted of a dealer applied vinyl roof (ugly!) tape racing stripes (ugly!) & side moldings (1 of which fell off on the way home). When I told the salesman that I wouldn't buy this stuff, he told me to leave quickly so that he could sell the car to the guy in line behind me. Then, after I agreed to his terms & asked him to take off the vinyl top & the racing stripes, he said that I could do that myself.
After taking delivery of the car, I drove it home & used a hair dryer to remove the stripes. A year later, when I had more money, I paid a body shop $400 to remove the vinyl top & refinish the roof.
By April, 1974, the crunch was over, more or less, & gasoline was once again freely available - albeit at sharply higher prices: $0.65/gallon vs. $0.35/gallon a year earllier.
The 2nd gas crunch, which was much milder, struck in the late spring of 1979 & lasted, as I recall, for only a couple of weeks. Again, it pushed prices higher.
What you have to keep in mind is not only the high price of gas at that time, but the belief, shared by almost everyone, that gas prices would continue to rise indefinitely. In 1980, the conventional wisdom was that by 1990, gas would cost $3.00/gallon - in 1980 dollars. That drove everyone's car buying decisions. When you were shopping for a car back then, you were always asking yourself: "Can I afford to drive this when [not if] gas hits 3 bucks?".
I thought about it. I was driving a Delta 88 in '81. I was just starting a six year commute to a college that was 50 miles away. Work was 26 miles away in the other direction. I was also working Saturdays and earning $30 for the day's work. Every Saturday I would take the Olds to the Hess station and fill the 25 gallon tank with $1.31 gas. I ended up buying a new Suzuki motorcycle rated at 55 mpg and keeping the tank for rainy days and winter weather.
I remember the odd even deal with the second gas crunch. I also recall that as soon as they did that the lines disappeared. There were more stations that had gas in the second one than in the first.
During that first one I'd end up driving my 20 or so mpg Volvo up the road to the place that was predictably open and always had gas. They had like a $3 maximum when gas was short of half a buck. I'd call a friend who'd go up in his car and we'd play cards on the hood of the cars while waiting out the line.
I always thought they had exactly the wrong idea with maximums on purchase. They should have had minimums. If they'd said $5 minimum nobody who didn't need that much would get on line. With that $3 maximum I'd go whenever I knew it would take $3 because I didn't know if I could get more later.
My dad somehow always had a source of gas. One of my brothers would steal mine.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I was a freshman in high school during the second gas crunch. A friend of mine even wore a T-shirt with license plates pictured on it with the words "Are you Even or Odd?" There were guys who had two sets of plates just so they could gas up every day.
I always thought they had exactly the wrong idea with maximums on purchase. They should have had minimums. If they'd said $5 minimum nobody who didn't need that much would get on line.
During the 1st crunch, you weren't allowed to buy gas unless you were down to a half tank or less. I remember attendants looking at my gas gauge before serving me. Once gas stations began enforcing that rule, the lines really got a lot shorter.
I can't remember if gas stations followed that rule during the 2nd crunch, which wasn't nearly as severe as the 1st.
And don't forget that wonderful Honda CVCC engine! Two things the Citation didn't have issues with were engine and body!
Really? I always thought Honda engines were pretty highly regarded, even back in those dark days? Now those Mikuni (sp?) 3-bbl carbs that the Accord, and possibly others used could be troublesome from what I've heard.
I think Japanese cars in those days tended to be weak in rust protection, air conditioning, automatic transmissions, and interiors. When it comes to interiors, a door handle or piece of trim might pop off quicker on a domestic car, but I think the vinyls and fabrics tended to be a bit more durable on the domestics. I remember a lot of Japanese cars having thinly padded molded plastic that would crack very early in life.
And while the domestic subcompacts we had back then were pretty crappy, couldn't you almost argue that they had a lot of foreign influence? The Chevette was billed as a "world car" and was sold all over Gods Creation. The Pinto used an English engine early on, and then switched to a Brazilian engine. And VW pretty much taught Mopar how to build the Omni/Horizon, plus, didn't it show up in Europe first as a Simca something-or-other?
Now the Vega was totally home-grown as far as I know, so I guess we have nobody to blame on that one but us Americans!
And don't forget that wonderful Honda CVCC engine!
Really? I had 2 cars - a '74 Civic & an '81 Accord - with that engine. Great cars. No engine trouble, either.
Now if you were to single out Audi & VW engines from that era, I'd agree with you. But I get the feeling that you'd rather bash Asian brands. The Germans seem to get a pass around here, even from the buy-American guys.
Probably because for every Caddy and Lincoln that lost its position to MB, BMW, (and Lexus), there are 50 Chevies, Fords, and Dodges that lost their position to Honyotissandais.
I'm sure you're right as far as unit sales are concerned, but losing one Cadillac sale to BMW or MB probably hurts GM's profits as much, if not more, than the loss of a half-dozen Malibu sales to Asian brands.
The Cadillac division used to be GM's cash machine because the profit margins were so much higher. If Chevrolet had a bad year because Ford had just rolled out a new Galaxy, GM could still book record profits because Cadillac was a cash machine.
Then the Germans came along & did to Cadillac & Lincoln what the Eighth Air Force did to Hamburg. That was a huge hit to the bottom line. I can't even begin to guess how many billions the German luxury brands have cost GM alone.
The D3 could have survived the Asian invasion without radical changes to the way they did business, but they couldn't handle both the Asians & the Germans. Still, no one here wants to bash the Germans.
I don't, but that's because I own a BMW (& also, perhaps, because Dad's family was from Germany).
Oh, yes the CVCC engines were wonderful. My 80 Accord never had a bit of mechanical trouble in 167K miles. I lived for four years on a barrier island and it was half submerged on one nor'easter but no mechanical problem from that. What killed it was rusting out.
That said, the Citation was a horrible rust bucket. I drove that Accord for a good several years after my buddy's Citation bit the dust. That was the car that drove him to the Japanese.
jimbres - they never checked to see how much gas we had IIRC. Actually at the time $3 worth was probably half a tank.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Well, despite it's bad reputation, my best friend had a 1980 Citation that lasted over 14 years and took him 195K miles. His family bought a new cream and green hatchback 4-door Citation in the spring of 1979. He drove that car through high school, college, graduate school, and into the first year of his marriage. Sure, the car looked terrible and was beat to heck from driving it in the city all those years, but it defied the horrid reputation those X-cars had. Guess what? The guy STILL is a big-time Chevrolet fan. His fleet includes a Corvette and a Tahoe Hybrid. No defecting to the Asians or Germans for this guy!
The 1970's were actually a golden age for Cadillac and Lincoln, with record sales. I think Cadillac's worst year of that decade was 1974, with about 240,000 units. That was also BMW's best year in the US up to that point, with about 60,000 units sold. And, at 25% of Cadillac's volume, that was about the closest a foreign luxury brand came to threatening Cadillac.
But in those days, I don't think the Europeans really stole sales from Cadillac or Lincoln. I think they created their own market. The vast majority of BMW's in 1974 were 2002's, with maybe a handful of those 3.0 sedans and that good looking coupe they had. Nothing there was even remotely cross-shoppable with anything that Cadillac or Lincoln had to offer.
Cadillac did start going up against the imports in mid-1975, with the introduction of the Seville. And it was a fair success. It was well regarded for the time, and while most reviewers still preferred the Benz it was trying to emulate, they usually said the Caddy was a good contender. Not so much Lincoln's attempt, the 1977 Versailles, which was little more than a tarted-up Granada with a standard V-8. But by and large, the high sellers with Cadillac and Lincoln were the battlecruiser class cars.
Once Cadillac tried to go more head-to-head with the Europeans, with cars like the downsized '85 Deville, shrunken '86 Seville/Eldorado, Cimarron, Allante, that's when things really started to fall apart. Lincoln stayed fairly traditional though, with, perhaps, the exception of the Taurus-based Continental.
With all those record sales of Cadillac and Lincoln in the 70's though, it makes me wonder where those buyers were coming from? Buick, Olds, and Mercury sold well in those years, as did Chrysler, so it's not like they were stealing that many sales from the lower ranks. Now Plymouth and Dodge were once strong in big cars, and they fell from favor after 1973 And Imperial went away after 1975, but it was down to around 10,000 units per year by then. That was a drop in the bucket compared to Cadillac or Lincoln.
Maybe people were just buying cars more often? Or, as more women entered the workforce, perhaps 2-car families became more common?
Lemko, you could probably buy a 1971 Vega, and have it be one of the most reliable cars you ever owned! :P
Actually, I knew someone who had owned a Vega, for about 90-100,000 miles, and he said it was pretty reliable other than needing to get one cylinder sleeved, and I think that was around 80,000 miles.
To save gas. Celica, 280Z, Civic, Supra, Accord, Civic, Civic, 200Z. I bought a Camaro and a Formula 350 after the Olds. In one stretch, I went almost 10 years without a V8. That was pretty much when I worked for GM and when gas was 89 cents a gallon. Bad timing.
Here is what I remember about CVCC's..although I can honestly say I never knew anybody who had one back then:
Early design flaw Some of the early CVCC engines had a problem with the auxiliary valves retaining collars vibrating loose. Once unscrewed, engine oil would leak from the valvetrain into the pre-combustion chamber, causing a sudden loss of power and massive amounts of smoke to emanate from the exhaust pipe. The condition simulated a blown engine, even though the needed repair was quite simple. Honda eventually came up with a fix involving metal retaining rings that slipped over the collars and prevented them from backing out of their threads.
It's not my hobby to knock Asian brands, but like in anything, when people speak in absolutes, it's worthwhile to bring facts to the table for balance.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, nobody said the J3 haters were logical ...:P The margins still have to be huge in high end cars...MB and BMW have many cycles where they pretty much mint money.
I think severely damaging the D3's middle market is just easier to see when out on the streets. One will always see more Camcords and Civrollas parked on their city streets than Ss and 7ers. The damage looks heavier. The average Joe is the one with the anti-J3 sentiment, and he's the target market for those normal cars.
I have no hate for the J or G invaders. Few Japanese cars interest me, but I like many traits of German cars...maybe it's my heritage coming through too.
That's right yeah...the Germans differentiated themselves into a new market segment, and wooed away many of those Caddy and Lincoln customers, especially younger prospective and aspirational buyers. The car that drove well and aged very well (albeit with lots of maintenance) built with high quality materials and stable styling suddenly became the one to want.
I think more frequent purchases are a good way to explain sales back in the day. Cars didn't age as well, especially in areas with harsher climates.
The Euro brands (the Germans + Saab & Volvo) really came into their own in the 1980s, which was also the decade in which the term "yuppie" was coined. By the early 80s, the oldest boomers were in their mid-30s & had climbed high enough on the corporate ladder to afford luxury cars. Mercedes did its part by introducing a new entry-level luxury car, the 190.
As I recall, personal leasing, as opposed to business leasing, really took off during the 80s. (Prior to that, you really couldn't lease a car unless you owned a business.) That made it possible for people who couldn't afford to buy a premium German car to drive one anyway.
Daimler-Benz's biggest problem in the late 80s was how to repatriate its profits to West Germany without paying German taxes. I recall reading articles in the business press about the mountains of cash that DB's US operation had on deposit in U.S. banks - money earned in the U.S. auto market. DB wanted to bring this money home but didn't want to pay the tax bill.
By then, the Germans had beaten Cadillac & Lincoln to a nearly unrecognizable pulp, a fact that doesn't seem to bother the U.S. car boosters here. They'd rather bash the Asians.
It's not my hobby to knock Asian brands, but like in anything, when people speak in absolutes, it's worthwhile to bring facts to the table for balance.
Not sure what you mean by this. As I posted previously, I had 2 Hondas with CVCC engines that gave me no trouble at all. I also owned a VW Rabbit that threw a rod at 50K miles & an Audi that, while fun to drive when I could start it, was otherwise the worst car I ever owned. If I listed everything that went wrong with it, I'd wear out my keyboard.
Those are facts. At least they're my facts.
Still, I think that the Germans build the world's best cars. Anyone who can afford a BMW 5-series sedan - the finest sports/luxury sedan on the planet - but who buys a Cadillac or a Lincoln instead is a bloody moron, in my opinion.
When it comes to cars, deutschland uber alles. Good luck trying to convince me that this isn't true.
The Euro brands (the Germans + Saab & Volvo) really came into their own in the 1980s, which was also the decade in which the term "yuppie" was coined.
Ahh, yes, the yuppies. I forgot all about them! The Michaels and Stephanies of the world...eeewwwwww! (although Michael on "Newhart" drove a Turbo Z. I don't think they ever actually showed the car, but there was one episode where Dick pulled a fender off of it to hold as ransom to get Michael to pay back a debt).
The mass market Asian cars pretty much bore me to tears- as do their D3 competitors. When I bought my Mazdaspeed 3 in 2007 the only other new car I considered was the GTI. The local VW dealers refused to special order a car to my specs(audio upgrade, heated seats, no hole in the roof) while the Mazda dealer I used actually wanted my business. The only D3 car I could see myself buying new would be the 2001 Mustang GT/GT500. No other domestic vehicle gives me that "gotta have it" vibe...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Went to my local produce store this morning and eyed up the Lincoln MKS I parked next to. The trunk lid spacing was so far off on one side, it looked like The Hulk pried it up as he walked past it! If that's fit and finish of a so-called luxury brand, good luck to the customer who buys in.
Things never change too much, despite the rhetoric! Speaking of buying American, I'd agree the new 5'er just about tops anything made on any continent. The U.S. manufacturers "best renditions" at the moment are a few steps down in ALL categories, unless you need that super 'ute, don't cha think? Even at that, the build quality lags far behind at Ford, GM and C to such an extent that you'd need to be DEAD or Lemko not to notice the difference.
THIS is what Buying American means if one is truly enthusiastic! :shades:
Looks like most aficionados in the United States of America aren't either dead or Lemko-Like!
I'd have to agree regarding your choice in the GT/GT500. My choice would be the ZR-1 or Z-06. Still gets to me although damned if the interior designers work mostly from Chrysler!!
If I'm buying a sports car it will be either a Cayman S or a 911. The Mustang is kind of a musclecar/daily driver/occasional track toy all rolled into one. Although I'd have to install an oil cooler on the GT...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That Mustang sure has captured my interest, especially the GT. If only I didn't need the cargo capacity of my suv. I've tried talking the wife unit into trading her sedan for one, but that's a losing battle there . . . .
Ahh, yes, the yuppies. I forgot all about them! The Michaels and Stephanies of the world...eeewwwwww! (although Michael on "Newhart" drove a Turbo Z. I don't think they ever actually showed the car, but there was one episode where Dick pulled a fender off of it to hold as ransom to get Michael to pay back a debt).
I was a big fan of that show! I remember when 'the Turbo Z' was in the shop and Dick (Bob) told Stephanie she could borrow his car. She pouted, and Dick said to Michael, "What's the matter?". Michael's response.."Dick, your car is American".
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
American tastes changed, but American car manufacturers either couldn't or didn't want to cater to them.
OK, agreed. That was decades ago. I'm all for several of Lemko's suggestions. Let's look at the 'big picture'. If somebody way back when said they wouldn't buy a '65 Mustang because their '40 Ford was lousy, we'd have laughed at them. But that kind of thinking is prevalent on this board today. The D3 is not today where it was way back when.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Didn't Dick drive a 1972 or 1973 Oldsmobile Delta 88 as depicted during the opening theme of the show?
Yep, although I found out a bit of trivia about that recently. That '73 Delta was actually used in "On Golden Pond", and all that opening footage from Newhart was B-roll footage shot of Katherine Hepburn and Henry Fonda driving around the New Hampshire countryside, that never made it into the film. So, later on, CBS got ahold of it and used it for Newhart.
I remember one early episode of Newhart where they showed Dick in a brown Cutlass Ciera, but can't recall if they ever showed or referenced their car at any other time.
There's one scene in the opening credits, where the Olds makes a left-hand turn in a small town, with a Mobil station in the background. Once you realize where that footage came from, it's really obvious that it's Henry Fonda in the passenger seat!
I guess 28 years ago, when 25" was considered big, the people out there in TVLand probably never thought we'd be watching these re-runs on 50+" hi-defs! Although to be fair, I STILL didn't notice it was Henry Fonda in that car, until I read about the B-roll footage, and then looked for it.
I wonder now, if the scene with the Cutlass Ciera was just stock footage from something else, as well? I remember it was a nighttime scene, and they were cruising slowly down some street that was probably at Universal Studios, or the Warner Bros Ranch. But the interior shots of the car, with Dick in it, were definitely a Cutlass Ciera.
>, where the Olds makes a left-hand turn in a small town, with a Mobil station in the background. Once you realize where that footage came from, it's really obvious that it's Henry Fonda in the passenger seat!
I've got to check my limited cable listings for a Newhart rerun. Newhart was a favorite of mine and On Golden Pond with Hepburn was a stop choice. I stop and watch any time I see it.
Wouldn't you have to give foreign competition credit for that? Still, I agree, & that's why I plan to test-drive a Cadillac CTS when I'm shopping for my next car. As much as I love German cars in general & the new 5-series BMW in particular, they've gotten too pricey for my wallet. A 535i equipped to my liking will run somewhere north of $60K. My wife would strangle me in my sleep if I spent that much money on a car.
I also plan to look at Infiniti, which is reputed to deliver a near-BMW driving experience for considerably less money.
Whatever my selection, you can be sure of this: I'll buy what I like. For me, car buying isn't a political process, intended to voice my support for a bunch of strangers working in a factory 3 states away. It's a personal economic decision, made in consultation with my wife & bank account.
I'll bet it's the same way with you. You don't buy whatever it is you buy because it's American made. You buy it because you like it. The fact that it's a domestic may be an after-the-fact bragging point, but it probably isn't central to the actual buying process.
I can't imagine that anyone here has ever not bought a car that he or she really liked just because it wasn't built by one of the D3.
Whatever my selection, you can be sure of this: I'll buy what I like. For me, car buying isn't a political process, intended to voice my support for a bunch of strangers working in a factory 3 states away. It's a personal economic decision, made in consultation with my wife & bank account.
I posted this on a forum "far, far, away":
"Well, as I've said before, I buy products that I believe will best meet my wants/needs. All things being equal I'll buy the US made product. But I won't compromise just so I can boast that I "Buy 'murrican".
Here's just one reply:
"I suppose anyone in the world can post here. The only reason that I can think of that someone would make the above post is that they are from some other country."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Whatever my selection, you can be sure of this: I'll buy what I like. For me, car buying isn't a political process, intended to voice my support for a bunch of strangers working in a factory 3 states away. It's a personal economic decision, made in consultation with my wife & bank account. I can't imagine that anyone here has ever not bought a car that he or she really liked just because it wasn't built by one of the D3.
Agree! :P Just buy whatever you like and enjoy! If "Buy American" is the only reason left for D3 cars, the D3 need to be shut down.
Still, I think that the Germans build the world's best cars. Anyone who can afford a BMW 5-series sedan - the finest sports/luxury sedan on the planet - but who buys a Cadillac or a Lincoln instead is a bloody moron, in my opinion.
Agree! I have a used 2005 530I and I enjoy it everyday. I would rater buy a Camry than a Cadillac.
If you've bought American in the last 10 years then you've bought from a failing bankrupt company most likely.
So who the heck buys from a failing bankrupt company?
A good reason would be if they had top notch product that they sold at a loss to provide excellent value to the public, which eventually drove them out of business. A bad reason would be if they were deemed too big to fail.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Well, when one considers the price difference, the CTS may be the better value based on sale price. But then you take into account leasing, and leasing a Bimmer probably closes the gap somewhat.
Right, andres3. I bought three Buicks in the last 10 years; the lure was the Deal; I've been driving well-made, well-designed, zero-defect cars full of welcome gadgets/content. And, yes, I believe that it was a good idea to save GM; it looks like they will repay us taxpayers soon.
I bought two Cadillacs and my wife bought a Chevrolet and a Buick in the last ten years. Any deals we made on them were just gravy. They are all very attractive, fuel-efficient, trouble-free cars with a lot of features for the money.
And, yes, I believe that it was a good idea to save GM; it looks like they will repay us taxpayers soon.
Don't agree. Bailing out GM sets a dangerous precedent. Future bailouts may expose taxpayers to unacceptable losses.
GM should have been allowed to fail. Competitors, like Ford, would have picked up GM's desirable assets, such as Cadillac & Buick.
I'm a hard-core capitalist. Companies that can't please customers & turn profits without government help should be allowed to go under - the sooner, the better. You can't have the right to succeed if you don't also have the right to fail.
Well, if you consider being paid back cents on the dollar as a "repayment to taxpayers," good for you. However, I, like most Americans, consider pennies on the dollar to be highway robbery, and that's the only repayment taxpayers will get from GM.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
Unfortunately Andy, at $1.30/gal gasoline was more expensive in 1981 than it is now, but 15 MPG is still 15 MPG. Also, regardless of gas prices, at 15 MPG when there is gas rationing as there was in the late '70's, you ain't going far on a small amount of gas. Rationing probably turned people to the more fuel efficient imports more than high gas prices.
My Mom bought a new car in February 1980...a new Malibu V-6 that could easily get 20 mpg in mixed driving. Back then, we thought that was great! Her previous car was a 1975 LeMans with a 350-2bbl that was lucky to get 15-16. We had just moved to southern MD in the summer of '79, and it wasn't the commute so much that was killing my Mom. I think it went from 18 miles one way to 19, although traffic was worse. However, she got homesick so we went up to visit my grandparents every other weekend, And that was about 36 miles away.
In retrospect, that round-trip to my grandparents cost less than 5 bucks (72 miles / 20 mpg = 3.6 gal, gas would have to have gone to $1.39/gal to come out to 5 bucks), but it seemed like a lot at the time!
Plus, that LeMans was getting old. Dad had wrecked it in 1977, and it never did run right, after that.
I'm an old guy, which means that I was driving back then. A few months before the crunch started, a drunk plowed into my parked '69 Rambler American & destroyed it. Then my grandfather died, & I inherited his '69 Plymouth Sport Fury with a 383 4-barrel, which required premium gas & was good for about 10 mpg around town.
When the crunch was at its worst, in February, 1974, there was only 1 station selling gas in my area. It was 5 miles from home, & sales were limited to 2 gallons per car, which meant that I was burning half of each purchase just making the trip to & from the station.
Looking for a way out, I went to a local Pontiac dealership that had recently acquired a Honda franchise. I wasn't the only one with that idea. The showroom was mobbed with people who were literally fighting with one another for the privilege of paying way over sticker for a Civic. I joined them, & paid $3700 for a $2500 car equipped with an "appearance package", which consisted of a dealer applied vinyl roof (ugly!) tape racing stripes (ugly!) & side moldings (1 of which fell off on the way home). When I told the salesman that I wouldn't buy this stuff, he told me to leave quickly so that he could sell the car to the guy in line behind me. Then, after I agreed to his terms & asked him to take off the vinyl top & the racing stripes, he said that I could do that myself.
After taking delivery of the car, I drove it home & used a hair dryer to remove the stripes. A year later, when I had more money, I paid a body shop $400 to remove the vinyl top & refinish the roof.
By April, 1974, the crunch was over, more or less, & gasoline was once again freely available - albeit at sharply higher prices: $0.65/gallon vs. $0.35/gallon a year earllier.
The 2nd gas crunch, which was much milder, struck in the late spring of 1979 & lasted, as I recall, for only a couple of weeks. Again, it pushed prices higher.
What you have to keep in mind is not only the high price of gas at that time, but the belief, shared by almost everyone, that gas prices would continue to rise indefinitely. In 1980, the conventional wisdom was that by 1990, gas would cost $3.00/gallon - in 1980 dollars. That drove everyone's car buying decisions. When you were shopping for a car back then, you were always asking yourself: "Can I afford to drive this when [not if] gas hits 3 bucks?".
During that first one I'd end up driving my 20 or so mpg Volvo up the road to the place that was predictably open and always had gas. They had like a $3 maximum when gas was short of half a buck. I'd call a friend who'd go up in his car and we'd play cards on the hood of the cars while waiting out the line.
I always thought they had exactly the wrong idea with maximums on purchase. They should have had minimums. If they'd said $5 minimum nobody who didn't need that much would get on line. With that $3 maximum I'd go whenever I knew it would take $3 because I didn't know if I could get more later.
My dad somehow always had a source of gas. One of my brothers would steal mine.
And don't forget that wonderful Honda CVCC engine! Two things the Citation didn't have issues with were engine and body!
During the 1st crunch, you weren't allowed to buy gas unless you were down to a half tank or less. I remember attendants looking at my gas gauge before serving me. Once gas stations began enforcing that rule, the lines really got a lot shorter.
I can't remember if gas stations followed that rule during the 2nd crunch, which wasn't nearly as severe as the 1st.
Really? I always thought Honda engines were pretty highly regarded, even back in those dark days? Now those Mikuni (sp?) 3-bbl carbs that the Accord, and possibly others used could be troublesome from what I've heard.
I think Japanese cars in those days tended to be weak in rust protection, air conditioning, automatic transmissions, and interiors. When it comes to interiors, a door handle or piece of trim might pop off quicker on a domestic car, but I think the vinyls and fabrics tended to be a bit more durable on the domestics. I remember a lot of Japanese cars having thinly padded molded plastic that would crack very early in life.
And while the domestic subcompacts we had back then were pretty crappy, couldn't you almost argue that they had a lot of foreign influence? The Chevette was billed as a "world car" and was sold all over Gods Creation. The Pinto used an English engine early on, and then switched to a Brazilian engine. And VW pretty much taught Mopar how to build the Omni/Horizon, plus, didn't it show up in Europe first as a Simca something-or-other?
Now the Vega was totally home-grown as far as I know, so I guess we have nobody to blame on that one but us Americans!
Really? I had 2 cars - a '74 Civic & an '81 Accord - with that engine. Great cars. No engine trouble, either.
Now if you were to single out Audi & VW engines from that era, I'd agree with you. But I get the feeling that you'd rather bash Asian brands. The Germans seem to get a pass around here, even from the buy-American guys.
The Cadillac division used to be GM's cash machine because the profit margins were so much higher. If Chevrolet had a bad year because Ford had just rolled out a new Galaxy, GM could still book record profits because Cadillac was a cash machine.
Then the Germans came along & did to Cadillac & Lincoln what the Eighth Air Force did to Hamburg. That was a huge hit to the bottom line. I can't even begin to guess how many billions the German luxury brands have cost GM alone.
The D3 could have survived the Asian invasion without radical changes to the way they did business, but they couldn't handle both the Asians & the Germans. Still, no one here wants to bash the Germans.
I don't, but that's because I own a BMW (& also, perhaps, because Dad's family was from Germany).
That said, the Citation was a horrible rust bucket. I drove that Accord for a good several years after my buddy's Citation bit the dust. That was the car that drove him to the Japanese.
jimbres - they never checked to see how much gas we had IIRC. Actually at the time $3 worth was probably half a tank.
But in those days, I don't think the Europeans really stole sales from Cadillac or Lincoln. I think they created their own market. The vast majority of BMW's in 1974 were 2002's, with maybe a handful of those 3.0 sedans and that good looking coupe they had. Nothing there was even remotely cross-shoppable with anything that Cadillac or Lincoln had to offer.
Cadillac did start going up against the imports in mid-1975, with the introduction of the Seville. And it was a fair success. It was well regarded for the time, and while most reviewers still preferred the Benz it was trying to emulate, they usually said the Caddy was a good contender. Not so much Lincoln's attempt, the 1977 Versailles, which was little more than a tarted-up Granada with a standard V-8. But by and large, the high sellers with Cadillac and Lincoln were the battlecruiser class cars.
Once Cadillac tried to go more head-to-head with the Europeans, with cars like the downsized '85 Deville, shrunken '86 Seville/Eldorado, Cimarron, Allante, that's when things really started to fall apart. Lincoln stayed fairly traditional though, with, perhaps, the exception of the Taurus-based Continental.
With all those record sales of Cadillac and Lincoln in the 70's though, it makes me wonder where those buyers were coming from? Buick, Olds, and Mercury sold well in those years, as did Chrysler, so it's not like they were stealing that many sales from the lower ranks. Now Plymouth and Dodge were once strong in big cars, and they fell from favor after 1973 And Imperial went away after 1975, but it was down to around 10,000 units per year by then. That was a drop in the bucket compared to Cadillac or Lincoln.
Maybe people were just buying cars more often? Or, as more women entered the workforce, perhaps 2-car families became more common?
Actually, I knew someone who had owned a Vega, for about 90-100,000 miles, and he said it was pretty reliable other than needing to get one cylinder sleeved, and I think that was around 80,000 miles.
I bought a Camaro and a Formula 350 after the Olds. In one stretch, I went almost 10 years without a V8. That was pretty much when I worked for GM and when gas was 89 cents a gallon. Bad timing.
Early design flaw
Some of the early CVCC engines had a problem with the auxiliary valves retaining collars vibrating loose. Once unscrewed, engine oil would leak from the valvetrain into the pre-combustion chamber, causing a sudden loss of power and massive amounts of smoke to emanate from the exhaust pipe. The condition simulated a blown engine, even though the needed repair was quite simple. Honda eventually came up with a fix involving metal retaining rings that slipped over the collars and prevented them from backing out of their threads.
It's not my hobby to knock Asian brands, but like in anything, when people speak in absolutes, it's worthwhile to bring facts to the table for balance.
I think severely damaging the D3's middle market is just easier to see when out on the streets. One will always see more Camcords and Civrollas parked on their city streets than Ss and 7ers. The damage looks heavier. The average Joe is the one with the anti-J3 sentiment, and he's the target market for those normal cars.
I have no hate for the J or G invaders. Few Japanese cars interest me, but I like many traits of German cars...maybe it's my heritage coming through too.
I think more frequent purchases are a good way to explain sales back in the day. Cars didn't age as well, especially in areas with harsher climates.
As I recall, personal leasing, as opposed to business leasing, really took off during the 80s. (Prior to that, you really couldn't lease a car unless you owned a business.) That made it possible for people who couldn't afford to buy a premium German car to drive one anyway.
Daimler-Benz's biggest problem in the late 80s was how to repatriate its profits to West Germany without paying German taxes. I recall reading articles in the business press about the mountains of cash that DB's US operation had on deposit in U.S. banks - money earned in the U.S. auto market. DB wanted to bring this money home but didn't want to pay the tax bill.
By then, the Germans had beaten Cadillac & Lincoln to a nearly unrecognizable pulp, a fact that doesn't seem to bother the U.S. car boosters here. They'd rather bash the Asians.
Not sure what you mean by this. As I posted previously, I had 2 Hondas with CVCC engines that gave me no trouble at all. I also owned a VW Rabbit that threw a rod at 50K miles & an Audi that, while fun to drive when I could start it, was otherwise the worst car I ever owned. If I listed everything that went wrong with it, I'd wear out my keyboard.
Those are facts. At least they're my facts.
Still, I think that the Germans build the world's best cars. Anyone who can afford a BMW 5-series sedan - the finest sports/luxury sedan on the planet - but who buys a Cadillac or a Lincoln instead is a bloody moron, in my opinion.
When it comes to cars, deutschland uber alles. Good luck trying to convince me that this isn't true.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/video/toyota-criminal-probe-11233308
Ahh, yes, the yuppies. I forgot all about them! The Michaels and Stephanies of the world...eeewwwwww! (although Michael on "Newhart" drove a Turbo Z. I don't think they ever actually showed the car, but there was one episode where Dick pulled a fender off of it to hold as ransom to get Michael to pay back a debt).
The only D3 car I could see myself buying new would be the 2001 Mustang GT/GT500. No other domestic vehicle gives me that "gotta have it" vibe...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Things never change too much, despite the rhetoric! Speaking of buying American, I'd agree the new 5'er just about tops anything made on any continent. The U.S. manufacturers "best renditions" at the moment are a few steps down in ALL categories, unless you need that super 'ute, don't cha think? Even at that, the build quality lags far behind at Ford, GM and C to such an extent that you'd need to be DEAD or Lemko not to notice the difference.
THIS is what Buying American means if one is truly enthusiastic! :shades:
Looks like most aficionados in the United States of America aren't either dead or Lemko-Like!
Regards,
OW
Yuk!
YUK-ARE YOU LISTENING CHEVY??
Regards,
OW
Although I'd have to install an oil cooler on the GT...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I was a big fan of that show! I remember when 'the Turbo Z' was in the shop and Dick (Bob) told Stephanie she could borrow his car. She pouted, and Dick said to Michael, "What's the matter?". Michael's response.."Dick, your car is American".
OK, agreed. That was decades ago. I'm all for several of Lemko's suggestions. Let's look at the 'big picture'. If somebody way back when said they wouldn't buy a '65 Mustang because their '40 Ford was lousy, we'd have laughed at them. But that kind of thinking is prevalent on this board today. The D3 is not today where it was way back when.
Yep, although I found out a bit of trivia about that recently. That '73 Delta was actually used in "On Golden Pond", and all that opening footage from Newhart was B-roll footage shot of Katherine Hepburn and Henry Fonda driving around the New Hampshire countryside, that never made it into the film. So, later on, CBS got ahold of it and used it for Newhart.
I remember one early episode of Newhart where they showed Dick in a brown Cutlass Ciera, but can't recall if they ever showed or referenced their car at any other time.
Thanks. That's great to know. I appreciate you adding that!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess 28 years ago, when 25" was considered big, the people out there in TVLand probably never thought we'd be watching these re-runs on 50+" hi-defs! Although to be fair, I STILL didn't notice it was Henry Fonda in that car, until I read about the B-roll footage, and then looked for it.
I wonder now, if the scene with the Cutlass Ciera was just stock footage from something else, as well? I remember it was a nighttime scene, and they were cruising slowly down some street that was probably at Universal Studios, or the Warner Bros Ranch. But the interior shots of the car, with Dick in it, were definitely a Cutlass Ciera.
I've got to check my limited cable listings for a Newhart rerun. Newhart was a favorite of mine and On Golden Pond with Hepburn was a stop choice. I stop and watch any time I see it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You'd put an oil cooler on a golf cart!
Wouldn't you have to give foreign competition credit for that? Still, I agree, & that's why I plan to test-drive a Cadillac CTS when I'm shopping for my next car. As much as I love German cars in general & the new 5-series BMW in particular, they've gotten too pricey for my wallet. A 535i equipped to my liking will run somewhere north of $60K. My wife would strangle me in my sleep if I spent that much money on a car.
I also plan to look at Infiniti, which is reputed to deliver a near-BMW driving experience for considerably less money.
Whatever my selection, you can be sure of this: I'll buy what I like. For me, car buying isn't a political process, intended to voice my support for a bunch of strangers working in a factory 3 states away. It's a personal economic decision, made in consultation with my wife & bank account.
I'll bet it's the same way with you. You don't buy whatever it is you buy because it's American made. You buy it because you like it. The fact that it's a domestic may be an after-the-fact bragging point, but it probably isn't central to the actual buying process.
I can't imagine that anyone here has ever not bought a car that he or she really liked just because it wasn't built by one of the D3.
I posted this on a forum "far, far, away":
"Well, as I've said before, I buy products that I believe will best meet my wants/needs. All things being equal I'll buy the US made product. But I won't compromise just so I can boast that I "Buy 'murrican".
Here's just one reply:
"I suppose anyone in the world can post here.
The only reason that I can think of that someone would make the above post is that they are from some other country."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I can't imagine that anyone here has ever not bought a car that he or she really liked just because it wasn't built by one of the D3.
Agree! :P
Just buy whatever you like and enjoy!
If "Buy American" is the only reason left for D3 cars, the D3 need to be shut down.
Agree! I have a used 2005 530I and I enjoy it everyday. I would rater buy a Camry than a Cadillac.
Nope.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So who the heck buys from a failing bankrupt company?
A good reason would be if they had top notch product that they sold at a loss to provide excellent value to the public, which eventually drove them out of business. A bad reason would be if they were deemed too big to fail.
I would certainly agree, which is why I'll take a long, hard look at the CTS when I buy my next car.
IMO, the Germans still build the best cars in the world, but there are now non-German players that offer 95% of the pleasure for 80% of the cost.
Don't agree. Bailing out GM sets a dangerous precedent. Future bailouts may expose taxpayers to unacceptable losses.
GM should have been allowed to fail. Competitors, like Ford, would have picked up GM's desirable assets, such as Cadillac & Buick.
I'm a hard-core capitalist. Companies that can't please customers & turn profits without government help should be allowed to go under - the sooner, the better. You can't have the right to succeed if you don't also have the right to fail.