Stories from the Sales Frontlines

british_rover · July 2007

Our doc fee is 239 which is 200 plus dollars less then any other highline new car dealer in our area.

When I bought my MINI from Crown MINI in Richmond the doc fee was 499, which both BMW and MINI customers paid, I think and then all MINIs had a 599 dealer prep fee attached to them.

I didn't pay either of those just sticker.

mackabee · July 2007

Some cars are just dogs. We've had our share of them too! The Echo, and now the re-designed Echo that is called the Yaris which in reality is the same car the Echo was but the Echo was given a different rump and looked different than the Japanese and European Yaris and Vitz which were in reality the same cars. Still follow me?

They aren't bad cars just different. more later going to lunch.;

qbrozen · July 2007

i don't want to bash ... so I'm trying to state this fairly ... do you know if Major World is reputable? I see their cars on the net all the time and they are usually well below most other dealers on their asking prices .... suspiciously so. I had a friend who ran a couple of their cars through carfax and found a bad history on them, which confirmed my suspicions. Of course, they could be bad examples, or maybe its just the cheap ones that happen to catch my eye and they really don't have ALL cheap ones.

wlbrown9 · July 2007

One of guys in a nearby cube has a 2004 or so Quest. Rear brakes that warp or wear out every 5-15K miles. Poor quality OEM tires and guess what, that Goodyear is the ONLY tire made in that size apparently. You do have an option of putting on another size that will fit, but I think there are only one or two tires made in that size. He complained to Nissan corporate enough that they brought in a factory engineer to take a look at his vehicle. No, he would NOT recommend anyone buy one of these :-)

user777 · July 2007

i think it would be good to insert lighting, camera, talent and effects direction into your story. don't spare the details. :shades:

lilengineerboy · July 2007

Every Saturday we grill burgers, steak, chicken, sausage. But it is for the sales department. When someone states they are hungry and need to go to lunch we'll bring them out back where the grill is and feed them. We ussually get pizzas and subs in the winter. But we have a grill and we would rather have a cook out than some pizza. It's is nice any day of the week we can just go to the food store pick up food and grill it. I mean we are here more than home. Sometimes you just have to have fun at work. Pass the ketchup. It's right next to the potato salad.

Early in my career (okay when I was in HS and college) I worked at a mom & pop bicycle shop. We had one of those little Hibachi things out back that we would fire up pretty much all spring and summer. What was great was our better customers knew about it and would bring in things like charcoal, homemade BBQ sauces, and chicken/steak and feed us (usually while we were working on their bicycles).

Working at a bike shop was very different than auto sales. It was a destination shop for a discretionary purchase, and more often then not it was more the type of customer British Rover and LRguy would greet. Dropping 2-3k on a nice road or mountain bike required quite a bit of time with the customer, mostly to determine needs and spec out the appropriate components.

I loved that job though. It was satisfying to help someone get EXACTLY what they wanted, and it was fun to get to spend someone else's money on all these great parts and components.

im_brentwood · July 2007

Q,

you know better than to ask... if a car is thousands below market.......................................

Really primo stuff doesn't get given away.... one thing that I always believed in was actually making money on cherry used cars...unless you're buying year old stuff, the 3-5 year old perfect used car ain't too easy to find.

Whatcha looking for? Mebbe I can point ya in the right direction.

qbrozen · July 2007

oh, nothing for me at the moment, thanks. this is just from past experience when shopping. I mean, I'm ALWAYS shopping, just not always buying (well ...). Seriously, though, I just search for everyone else I know. Currently trying to help someone settle on a $5k car. But that's not worth travelling too far for. Besides, he's too wishy-washy to even bother helping directly. I point him in a direction and let him go on his own because I'd fell bad bringing him to a dealer personally and subjecting a salesperson to his indecisiveness.

british_rover · July 2007

I'd fell bad bringing him to a dealer personally and subjecting a salesperson to his indecisiveness.

And we thank you for that.

fezo · July 2007

Now THAT'S what I need. A nice source to point me where the cars are that I can buy and then sell for a profit after six months or a year. I could do that all day long.....

I'm sure I'll go looking to Major World.....

mackabee · July 2007

5k car? Is there such a thing anymore? The last one I saw was a beater with close to 200k miles. More like auction material. good luck.

Mackabee

metro123 · July 2007

Don't confuse doc fee and dealer fee. In Florida, they are two different things. Doc fee is for paperwork, dealer fee is for....well I'm not sure but almost all dealers charge it. Think of it as another form of ADM.

dino001 · July 2007

Not exactly. Perhaps it varies by region, but wherever I was (Tally, Tampa), they usually charged one fee, call it "whatever" prep, doc, delivery, facility. I never bumped on multiple fees originated by dealer (admittedly do not have as much experience in buying yet). They of course also charge DMV etc., but that's state/county.

epiney · July 2007

What ever happened to Mrs. Johnson, the guy with the GX470 and another story I can't even remember? ...Not going back to the other forum about the offer and reneg. Life is too short to carry such large chips on your shoulder.

metro123 · July 2007

Last car I bought in Ft. Lauderdale, doc fee was $250, dealer fee was $399, same invoice.

dino001 · July 2007

So I guess FL West Coast has different practice than East Coast. For example, friendly Tampa Bay Toyota dealers like to lump everything into a tiny $575.

joe131 · July 2007

Dealers around here are able to charge whatever Doc/Dealer fee they think they can get. It varies from one dealer to the next even on the same block or across the street.
I think everyone understands it is just added dealer markup so they can pretend to negotiate more off the MSRP.

joel0622 · July 2007

Probably the biggest dog and pony show I have ever been involved in was when we did a Slasher Sale. I don't know if any one has ever taken part in one but they are a hoot.

Here is how they work, you saturate the market with claims that you will be slashing prices on all used cars during this record setting, one of a kind, never to be seen again event, we will sell cars for as low as $99.99. Due to high sales volume we are over loaded with trade ins and have no choice but to offer this to the public. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

You have all heard the come on before.

Now keep in mind back in the late 90's, early 2000's they were new to the market place and they drew a huge crowd.

Here is how it works. On the day before the sale you put a chain link fence up around your used car lot and hire two fat guys to in black t-shirts to stand at the gate. They are the security guards and they tell everyone used cars are off limits till the gates open at 7:00 AM tomorrow.

Then while they are off limits the Used Car Manager spends the day putting the cars in order and marking a pie in the sky price on the window of each car in big bold numbers.

Sale day comes along and every one shows up at 7:00 AM to register. registration consist of giving a 5 line credit application to the greeters, they pull your credit then hand you a pass to get in the gate. Unknown to the customer is that the color of there pass matters.

Green Pass= great credit

Yellow pass=average but can buy

Red pass=its going to be a special finance deal.

Ok now what people do is when the gates open they run in and find the car they want and sit in it. First person to sit in the drivers seat has first chance, passenger seat second chance, back seat drivers side 3rd chance etc.

Now when the horn blows the sale starts and they go to the first car, the event MGR walks up and ask your name, then it goes something like this.

Peggy Sue, you are sitting behind the wheel of a 2002 Ford F150, the price on the window say $18995.00, will you pay that much? She screams NO!! the he turns to the crowd and says What should we do? They all yell SLASH IT!!!

He then takes a grease pencil and X's out the $18995.00 and marks it down to $14995.00. If you accept the price then you blow the horn.

It is the craziest thing I have ever seen, the crowd is yelling and screaming, people arguing over cars. It was a hoot to see 80 people yell "SLASH IT!!!!

Then if it was a red card carrier what we would do is if a yellow or green showed interest also a salesperson would pull them to the side and suggest writing a back up deal on it.

Years ago they worked great, we did it twice and sold a bunch both times. Now they are just another gimmick that people are tired of.

dino001 · July 2007

Pretty much the same here. Allows them run "invoice" screamer ads and pay less commission to the sales staff, as it usually is paid based on what they call "price", not what is the real one.

mackabee · July 2007

That brings back some memories! When I started in the car biz it was at a "Cheby" store.

The weekend I left that store to come to my current dealership they had a slasher sale. Everything joel describes was the same with the exception of the cards. This store gave balloons to the "customers". A friend of mine who was a greeter at that store told me about that following monday. He said it was a riot. No one would get near the folks with the red balloons.

My current store tried it one year and it was a complete failure. The regular service and parts customers were disgusted by the circus atmosphere that a few called the owner and he put a stop to it after the first day.

Mackabee

metro123 · July 2007

Sounds like the "Chopper" show! LOL !!!

joe131 · July 2007

Hahaha!
Yeah, that's the one, The KING of Cars!
What baloney!

(gotta love a blue genie though)

Truthfully, I don't mind that stuff at all. The more profit the dealers can get from other people, the more often they can afford to sell me a car really cheap.

Charge what your market will bear. Nuthin wrong with that!

obyone · July 2007

"Years ago they worked great, we did it twice and sold a bunch both times. Now they are just another gimmick that people are tired of."

Not true. A local Chevy dealer does it once a quarter here only using $88 and not $99.....woot!!

epiney · July 2007

I'm sorry Joel,it's a funny story, but I think a slasher sale is pretty tacky. It reminds me of those furniture sales. No money down, no payments for 99 years! Or those GOING OUT for BUSINESS sales

joel0622 · July 2007

I'm sorry Joel,it's a funny story, but I think a slasher sale is pretty tacky.

Oh I agree, they are tacky as hell. But we would sell the crap out of cars on them back in the day. Usually good for a 20+ car day

joel0622 · July 2007

Not true. A local Chevy dealer does it once a quarter here only using $88 and not $99.....woot!!

I guess they have run there course in our trade area.

british_rover · July 2007

I am going to try and finish that up tonight after dinner.

gasman1 · July 2007

I hope mackabee doesn't plan on making us wait until next season to finish the Mr. and Mrs. Johnson (and their daughter and son-n-law) story :confuse: Give it up, Mack!

joel0622 · July 2007

Don't ya hate cliff hangers?

im_brentwood · July 2007

Latest gimmick I've seen is the "lifetime warranty"... I never did a slasher sale.. I wanted to just for my own amusement tho.

im_brentwood · July 2007

I bought the M5 in my driveway for $5,300.. not $5k but close!

madmanmoo · July 2007

british_rover · July 2007

When we last left off I was talking to our UC manager about the russian and the GX470.

I explain what is going on including the ridiculous low offer that he made outside. Even right now we are a good bit under our cost and this would be a huge loser for us but no one has even opened the door on this truck in 35 days so...

I tell her I think I can bump him one more time and then figure he will come back with a number that is still a little too low. At that point our UC manager can come in with one final offer that would be about break even. I can tell he is one of those guys that loves the back and forth so this seems like the best way to play it.

I hit him with a number where we are making a few hundred dollars. He thinks about it then hits back with us losing a thousand or so then I ask our UC how much money she wants to lose on this sale today. She comes out with a last offer that is pretty much split the difference and us about braking even. The Russian makes one more offer of us losing a few hundred and we say ok.

We print up a buyers order and then he says he wants a Land Rover hat. Sure you can have a hat they are 15 bucks I say.

NO you have to give me a hat or I won't buy the car.

:mad:

Fine we give him a 15 dollar hat. He gives us a 500 dollar deposit and signs the buyers order. We set up delivery for next week and everything seems to be going ok .

The delivery day arrives and the car is all polished and cleaned in front of the dealership. He spends 30 minutes walking over every inch of the outside and inside of the car.

Fine he is particular not a big deal. Then he wants me to go over all the controls including the DVD player. Again not a big deal I do that all the time. What should only take 10 or 15 minutes, car has no navigation system so not a lot to go over, takes almost another 30 minutes. One hour to do a several hundred dollar loser deliver is just frustrating I guess.

We go inside and show him into the office for him to sign everything and give us the certified check.

He stops in front of the office and points at the display case.

Russian: I want a Land Rover shirt."

ME: Sure they which kind the polo shirts are 35 dollars and the button up shirts are 54 dollars.

Russian: No you have to give me a shirt or I won't sign all the papers.

ME: :mad:

I did not just waste an hour of my time to get beat up again over 40 bucks.

I look to our UC and she just nods her head then rolls her eyes.

I go to get the key to the case and they walk in to sign the papers.

This guy is a reader so he reads every single line on every bit of paper. It is a cash deal though so should be pretty quick.

Nope, he asks a question after every sentence so the closing takes another 30 minutes are so. He hands over the check and also gives over some cash but he doesn't have correct change. It is a Saturday and service isn't open. None of us have cash on us either so he stiffs us out of eight bucks because it is just not worth the trouble.

He walks out of the office and I say, "You are a medium right?"

Russian: Yeah a medium is right.

ME: Ok picks out a blue medium polo shirt and hands it to him There you go.

Russian: Thanks have a great day

He finally leaves and every body is kind of flabbergasted that it was just so difficult to get rid of that car.

He pulls away and we wave then as our UC manager is complaining about him so more I say, "that is ok I gave him a Woman's polo shirt wait till he tries to put it on." :P

mackabee · July 2007

Last time on Treat them like...our hero Mack had just gotten off the phone with Rich who told him about Mrs. J's daughter and it wasn't pretty. We see Mackabee walking up the stairs to Rich's office. Tonight's episode is..."The Negotiator"

"What's going on Rich?" Mackabee asks Rich. "This lady is a trip. She started this.." I stop him and tell him "Give me the Reader's Digest version man. Do they want to buy the car or what?" I ask. "Well, they want to steal the car. She wants it for $23,900.00 out the door. And she wants 2 grand for their trade in." he responds. "So 21k with their trade. How about the rebate?" I ask. "That's with the rebate." he responds. "So what did Jason say?" (Jason is the GSM and other than the GM has the final say on deals)"Jason told me to tell her $23,499 after rebate or $23,999.00 without the rebate." he tells me. "Ok. You have this girls number?" I ask. He gives me a piece of paper with the numbers we just discussed and a phone number with the name Gina on it.
I head downstairs and immediately go to Jason's office to verify the figures Rich gave me. He says they are ok so I get on the phone and order some Chinese food.
I haven't had lunch and cannot think straight on an empty stomach. Lucky for me the place delivers but your order has to be at least $10 dollars. I order some Mala Chicken with Fried Pork Rice and a couple of egg rolls. One of my colleagues happens to hear me and asks me if he can order something too. "Sure, what do you want.?" I ask. "Some vegetables." he says since he's a vegetarian. "Add a vegetable delight to the order plus a Pepsi and a Sprite." I tell the person on the other line. "How long will it be?" I want to know. "Ten minutes." he says. "Good, cause I'm starving."

I decide to call Gina and find out if we have a deal. I dial her number and a female voice answers; "Hello." "Hi! is this Gina?" I ask. "Yes it is." she responds in a dry tone. "Gina, this is Mackabee at XYZ Toyota. I've been helping your mom and dad with the Sienna. So are we ready to make a deal?"

I ask. "I don't think so." she responds. "Well what do you think of the price we gave you?" I ask. "I think you can do better and also give them more money for their car." she responds. "That's an excellent price for that vehicle and the trade is a wholesale unit which we won't be able to retail." I tell her. "Well I don't think it's a very good price." she responds despondently. "Why do you say that?" I ask. "I don't have to debate that with you." :mad: she responds even more despondently than before. I think our conversation is done so I do one of the oldest closes in sales history: "the take away". "I see. Well, I'm sorry we couldn't come to an agreement. I apologize for taking up your time. Have a nice day." :P and I hang up the phone......TOBECONTINUED

Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............ :lemon:

benzserviceguy · July 2007

Inspection 2 is the 60K mile service.. Generally $600-$800 at a BMW dealer. Plus, whatever they might find wrong.

Nothing more than a glorified ($800.00) oil change!!

lilengineerboy · July 2007

An E28 M5? Those are so cool, a "practical 150 mph sedan" I believe the original ad read. They used to have a 2002 show in San Luis Obispo every year, apparently it got moved to Earl Warren in Santa Barbara but seeing the E28 M5s and E30 M3s lined up in a quaint little park in SLO town was just cool.

benzserviceguy · July 2007

Anything pre-E46 should probably have service every 6 months/6K at the very least... maybe twice that often...

E46 and later? Who knows.. Two of them on the factory intervals and no problems, as yet... but, admittedly, not a lot of miles, either.

Had an E36 - changed the oil every 6K and did a service every 12K, so the routine was an oil change every 6K. Lasted 7 yrs and 117K before retirement following that skedule.

I recommend to ALL owners if you OWN the car to change the oil every 6K or 6 months and do the service 6K after that , this 12-15K interval 'cause it runs on synthetic is a load of crap - it merely costs the manufacturer less if they supply/provide service (ie BMW/Audi, formerly MB)and keeps the expense to the client at a mimimum since most LEASE the car, probably have a nut/note in the range of a mortgage payment and live in a house of cards that with one missed paycheck would come tumbling/crashing down.

Rant OVER

Thank You for *listening*

stickguy · July 2007

Welcome back Bill, and greetings from S. Jersey (Exit 4!)

If you are finding deals, I am looking for something for my son to learn to drive on (he gets his permit in the morning, which makes me feel real old).

It brings back memories of my youth, looking for cheap used cars that aren't pieces of crap. Actually kind of fun!

Just to make it difficult, it must be a manual tranny. Other than that, not too small (no Metros), good safety record, decent mileage (4 cyl preferred). And oh yeah, cheap enough that it only needs liability insurance (I am working in the 2K range).

I figure I should find a winner by the time he graduates. College!

THere was the beat up '93 Accord. Could probably have snagged that rat for about a grand.

Saw a '98ish Mystique today. Not sure what they were asking, but it was a clean one, but had 135K, and it has the V6. Probably not the best choice for the mileage, but I may still find out what they want for it. WOuld have been more interested in it with a 4, but it did have leather and a roof. ANyone interested?

Plan B is to just let him learn on my car (he can't solo for a year anyway, so a 3rd car is kinda pointless). I just have to get over the analness about my newer car, and my clutch! It is just an '05 Accord, and the front fascia alreay needs to be replaced (sourtesy of an ald fart in a parking lot (not me, another OF!)...

rworrell · July 2007

It appears you all have seen Suckers, which was great, but all this talk about slasher sales with no movie references makes me think that maybe you haven't seen one of the more interesting documentaries in the last few years. It's called...(wait for it)

Slasher (of course!).

More info here: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0375073/ (directed by John Landis--it's worth watching--exactly as you describe these sales--set in Memphis, TN)

mackabee · July 2007

I have seen this movie. It was on the IFC channel or Sundance.

Mackabee

lrguy44 · July 2007

Sorry it took so long. I had to leave town Tuesday nigh on a family emergency. So before I leave I find out the car had 2 problems - the transfer case was in neutral and a power steering hose blew - $276 repair. The SA had left the couple a message, but had yet to talk to them. I leave them a message saying if I could help them please feel free to call me on my cell while i was out of town. I figured it was a dead deal. This am my phone rings and it is the couple. We were 2k apart on the trade before but they thank me for being polite and make me an offer. Since I did not have access to R&R, I call our sales manager. The unit is a 90 dayer and we do the deal. Could have knocked me over.

user777 · July 2007

now that's funny...but he probably won't recognize the polo shirt is a woman's.

dino001 · July 2007

It really is funny - I hear from you guys (sales guys) all the "It can't be done", "No way anyone would accept such a loser", etc. yet you bring the evidence to the contrary every day (well - not every day, just a few times a month).

Oh - don't get me wrong - I enjoy all stories - also those about a guy who comes and drops full sticker and adds another 10 grand worth of accessories, also at full list price. Keep posting either one of them - I'm here to enjoy.

If a sales person and manager of a relativey small store, like yours, eventually gets "clubbed" for hundreds under, why shouldn't Mr. Smith try? What does he have to lose - they may say no, of course, but other than that a pissed salesman/woman or manager are not really a concern to him - he is not here to make friends.

lemko · July 2007

Chik-fil-A is awesome - one of the better fast food places - great chicken and I love the waffle fries.

lilengineerboy · July 2007

My college food court had Chik-Fil-A or Chickafil or whatever it was called. That was the first time I had seen a place like that in CA, but I guess they are all over the Southeast.

british_rover · July 2007

It is all a matter of minimizing your loses. We lost a few hundred dollars on that sale. If another couple of weeks had gone by and we had wholesaled that car away we would have lost three thousand dollars maybe more.

That and we were on track to have a record breaking used car month last month. We ended up one or two cars above our previous best record set last November.

I miss Chick-Fil-A they don't have them around here.
Oohhhh Waffle fries.....

chetj · July 2007

pinstriping...dealer prep..document fees...fabric guard...extended warranty...getting hosed on trade in..and yet a customer does not have to pay this if they look around...and dont forget the dealer financing. that is always a good scam...actually from what i hear dealers dont make a lot of money on new cars it is their service dept and all the above where they make a profit or stay in business...i bought a new car at a good discount with no doc fees or anything...i am not a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] or high maintenance to a saleman, but i also really dont haggle or overpay..sell the car or dont..i wont waste my time or yours

hotel1 · July 2007

Are capped at $75 bucks...........Up from $45 a couple of years ago.

lilengineerboy · July 2007

and dont forget the dealer financing. that is always a good scam...

I totally disagree. My dealer beat my financing by 0.5%, which over 5 years, is a lot. It helped that I have good credit, but even more so for those that don't, the F&I guy has access to more lending options than the typical person. Gotta watch the sweeping generalizations.

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