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In the end, as long as the consumers put up with these kinds of practices, it will continue.
p.s I'm in sales as well (Tech) and the above method would definitely have led to the loss of an account!
Anyway, we looked at a comparable Sienna 08 XLE with package #2 that had just about the same MSRP as the Ody. $31,4k or $31,6k .
I called my friend and asked him what kind of deal they had given them. $27,990.00 plus ttl. So we went on the test drive and we got back and I told them to park it side by side and showed them the features on the Sienna.
She liked the ride and quietness of the Sienna over the Ody. He did also. They both like the seats on the Honda better. I can see why, they look very comfortable and supportive like on my kid's Prelude.
They wanted a price so I matched the deal. $27990.00 plus ttl. And we have special APR financing thru the end of the month.
She currently drives an 01 Odyssey so I'm at a slight disadvantage as a lot of customers are brand loyal.
They went back to the Honda store but didn't buy anything.
We'll see what happens in the next day or so. I will call them later today and follow up. Sometimes that's all someone needs. If the other guy doesn't call then the customers think he doesn't really want to make a sale.
Mackabee
I doubt that the OP will prevail on a Lemon Law claim if his only borderline legitimate complaint is that the brakes squeak.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
They also drove an Scion xB, xD, AND finally I had to settle them down. The kid is not even 16 yet! So they decide to go home and "think about it"
Unbeknown to me, our inventory manager goes online and marks the car down even more! Down to $20,990.00.
Next day the whole family is back and Mr. Picha (not his real name) the grand dad is a little upset. He calls me over to the side and tells me about his daughter going online and seeing the price was lower than what we had quoted him the day before. Obviously he thought we were trying to scam him. We grabbed a cup of coffee and I sat them down and told them there was probably a good explanation for the difference in price. I excused myself and went to talk to the used car manager. He told me the price was changed the evening before and he was off that day so wasn't aware until today. "We'll honor the lower price." he said.
I went back to Mr. Picha and told him about it and he had even more questions. "Why was it marked down, was there something wrong with the car, etc.." No there's nothing wrong with the car, it came out of our rental fleet and now it's for sale. That's how we get most of our pre-owned certified vehicles other than trades. Plus it's been on the lot for over 60 days so it has to go" I told him. "Will you show me the original invoice?" he asked . "Sure, I got nothing to hide." "Dad, you don't expect them to sell you the car for less than they paid for it do you?" "No, but I can't see them losing money either." I go and print out the invoice for the car and a carfax and also our internal documents on all the work that has been done on the car which is not much since it only has 11k miles on it.
"Here's all the info you need sir." We own the car for $20994.00 and here's the original invoice. This car was $26,467.00 when it was new and our rental department bought it for $24,667.00 and they don't get holdback."
He looks at all the paperwork and is still not convinced. "You go back there and tell him to make some kind of price concession. Take another $500.00 off the price." he tells me. I go to the used car manager and he says "I'b be losing $500.00 if I did that. Tell him the price that was online, that's it."
I go back with the news and he decides not to go with it. Then I start telling them about my experience with my kids. "Lori, I'm not telling you how to raise your kids. My experience was that at that age they are not mature enough to handle a vehicle like that. It's usually inevitable that they will have some type of accident or fender bender before they even get to be 18. My suggestion would be to buy her a pre-owned 8-10k car like an Accord, Camry, or if she wants something sporty a Civic. That way you minimize you losses in the event she has an accident. Believe me I went through this with my three boys. Luckily they were not hurt and the cars were pretty much trade ins that I picked up for a couple of grand to about 5k. |" Now I had them thinking and they left with that in mind. "Mackabee, call me when you get something like that in. We want an import for her." he tells me. "No problem. I will do that." I reply. "And I'm going to call Jason and tell him about this pricing thing. I'm not happy with that at all. I know that's not your fault."
So they leave and a couple of days later Jason is back from his trip and I tell him about Mr. Picha. "Call him back." he tells me. "He's out of town plus I want to give them a couple of days to cool off. I'll get them back in here." I respond
A couple of days later Mr. Picha is back, he wants to buy a Prius and the one he wants is coming right of the truck as we are negotiating the deal. I go to the new car manager and recap what had happened and he calls Jason. He tells the ncm to sell him the car at invoice! So I go back and tell him we are making amends for the last couple of days and this is what he can buy the car for. His wife Janey is not with him so he tells me he has to check with her first. "Call her up!" I tell him. "No, she's at the mall spending my money." he tells me. "Then let's go ahead and do the paperwork and come back with her to pick up the car later today or tomorrow. I still have to get it pdi'd" I tell him. He declines and asks me if I can hold the car for a couple of days. "Mr. Picha, this is the hottest car on the planet right now. Everyone wants a Silver pine with package #6. If I hold the car for a couple of days I'll have a riot in the showroom from the other sales people." I tell him. I still go to the NCM and tell him and he says no, "I'm not holding that car for him".
I go back to Mr. Picha and tell him. "Look, it's 99% sure I'm going to buy the car. It's that 1% that'll get you." he tells me. I'll give you a call.
He leaves and I see a deal go through my hands.
A couple of hours later, Mr. and Mrs. Picha show up. He wants to show her the car which I have parked in the back with a Hold sign in it. As we are in the car and drive it around the lot she sees an 06 Avalon XLS in Desert sand. "Oooh what's that!" she exclaims. "That is so pretty. Can we stop and take a look at it?" she asks. I go to prep and get the key and open the car up. It looks like it has just been serviced and it's awaiting to go to prep and then the front line.
"This is beautiful Jimmy!" she exclaims. "Can we take it for a ride?" she asks. "Of course!" I reply.
We get on the boulevard and I tell Mr. Picha to punch the accelerator and he's impressed by the pick up, Janey is delighted. "You know this is probably better for us. It has more room, heated seats, navigation,.the works.. How much are they asking for this one?" she asks. I look at my used car price list and I see it's listed at $27,900.00 and I tell them. "Do you think they'll take $25,900.00 for it? " asks Mr. Picha. "I'll ask when we get back." I reply. The car is clean as a whistle. I think I'm the first person to ever sit in the back seat. All three buckles were buckled up and the seat looked like it just came out of a wrapper. The car had 21k miles on it and it looks like it was traded in by a Naval Officer.
We get back and I go to the used car manager and tell him about the offer. He accepts right away and I ask him, "are you sure? You don't want me to counter offer?" "No, that's a good deal for both you and them." he tells me. "Ok, that was easy." I say as I push the EASY button we have on the SM'S tower.
I go back to Mr. and Mrs. Picha and present the figures. "I got great news!" I tell them as I have the worksheet folded and up to my chest. That always creates excitement and suspense.....TO BE CONTINUED :shades:
There was a poster on these boards some time ago who always said to get the best deal you had to get the salesman to invest enough time with you that he couldn't afford to let you go without a sale. I wonder if this happened in reverse here?
I kick myself when I think of the cars I have purchased where the terms have been changed or promises have been reneged on. I know I should have walked or objected but I was committed at that point and the amounts were modest. I wonder if some salespeople count on your time investment to push through things which you would have walked over earlier in the transaction?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
They tried that in 1991 when we bought our 92 Camry. Lured us in with the low price $13,990.00 plus freight. Then when we picked out the car and got the buyer's order there were all types of bs charges on there. Stuff like, $50.00 for tire disposal fee, $75.00 city fee, and some others I don't recall but were pretty substantial especially to a family with three growing young boys to feed.
The kicker was when the "sales manager" who was supposed to be the owner's son came over. He looked like the stereotypical carsalesman. Polyester suit, rings all over the fingers, bracelets, and spoke like DeNiro in Wiseguys.! This is what he said to me when I told him I wasn't paying those fees.: "Well, I have to make some money somehow if I sell those cars at that price." to which I replied sarcastically. "Really, then why don't I just give you my wallet and you can pick everything out of it." and left. The salesman ran out to where we were and wanted the worksheet back. I felt bad for the guy because he was actually a good salesperson. No sleaze.
We did buy a Camry that evening but not from that store. Mackabee Jr. was at home doing the legwork for Mom and Dad and "negotiated" a better deal over the phone. And like I tell everyone whenever I tell this story. It's not rocket science, even an 11 year old can do it.
Mack
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's a world class AWFUL deal on the Ody from your Honda store. With that MSRP, it has to be an 07. I realize I'm a few hours north of you in the northern part of our fair Commonwealth, but....wow. When I started shopping, I emailed 12 dealers for quotes--this was over a month ago when prices weren't as good as they were now. Even the worst quote was 900 less than that. That's the model I just paid $25.2 for.
Nobody anywhere should be paying more than $26 for an 07 EX-L. I guess its your good fortune, since your Sienna XLE EVP2 price is very good, and your Honda store's isn't.
Great advice on the Scion though---true story---back up in MA where I went to high school, there was a terrible accident involved a studen there. This happened last year (I read about it in the paper). 5 kids had piled into a brand new Scion Xc. It was around midnight. The driver put the Scion into a light pole. Alcohol not a factor, but speed was. All five kids died.
Can't help but think that if those kids had been in a Camry or an Accord...maybe one or two survive. Not your job to be a parent, but I hope they take your advice.
One kid almost hit me head on in a Tundra about a month ago today. I was on my way to work and I saw them coming towards me and about to run right into me. I pushed the horn really fast to grab their attention and narrowly missed me. I had the right of way and they cut right in front of me, I slammed the brakes and veered right while he braked. I could see the fear in his eyes and the kids that were with him. They probably soiled their pants. I know it scared the devil out of me.
Mack
Her husband picks up the phone and I tell him I'm calling to see if they made a decision either way. He tells me they are going with the Odyssey, that it's his wife decision and he's going with it. I ask what the deciding factor was and he tells me I have to ask her. She's unavailable and I tell him if she changes her mind to let me know. He thanks me for my time and we hang up the phone.
This has definitely have to be brand loyalty. We are looking at an 07 Odyssey vs an 08 Sienna. Both around the same Msrp. We matched the price on the Honda just to move a unit and now it looks like they are going to pay $1000.00 more for a different color EX-L? I don't get it.
Mack
Strangely, it's not kids that have given me grey hair the past few years it's young to middle age people on cell phones. I don't know how many close calls I've had on my school bus from people who zone out while on the phone. Last week another driver was rear-ended while stopped with her reds on. Guy talking on the phone claimed he never saw the bus or all the flashing lights.
Of course I go to bed early, maybe all the kids go wild after 9:00pm.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Mack
My first car was a 1997 Chevy Malibu my dad bought me new. I think it was $17k. He wanted me in something safe. It was a good first car. ">
That Ody would have to have RES and perhaps even NAV for that to be remotely close to a decent deal. Oh well. Not my money.
Americans don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."
Thank you for yet another perfect contribution.
I first drove in Europe (Denmark & Northern Germany) in '72 & made a number of visits in '01-'02. The quality of the driving makes me want to move over there tomorrow. The quality of the cars themselves drives many of these discussions.
Keep right. Signal. Drive as fast as you want. Sounds simple, but as we see in the driving hellhole that is North America, it's not.
BTW, I put Porterfield carbon pads on my car so long ago I don't remember it. They squeal under light pressure, leave almost no dust & have lasted forever. They're great.
Too bad about the kids. tC is a nice machine and it can be overwhelming for a young kid. Heck any car can be overwhelming for a young kid.
Mack
back later, going to see the Pats demolish the Beagles.
Frankly, for that price, I'd buy the Sienna too. As a happy 07 Camry owner, I looked hard at the Sienna and just thought that the Odyssey was the better vehicle, but the decision was made much easier because I paid so much less for the Ody.
I guess I wouldn't be cut out for your business. Seeing people do dumb stuff like that (ie, paying a couple grand more than they need to) drives me nuts. But its people like that that make it possible for the rest of us to get the good deals, so...
Thanks; back in the early '90s I was between sports sedans and I was driving a 1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe as my work beater. Not very fast, but the five speed MT and the turbo made it fun to drive(you may remember that Ford ran a bunch of ads claiming that the car was as good or better than a BMW 635CSi). Anyway, I considered taking it to a nearby BMW CCA drivers school but I thought I better check it out first. It just so happened that the state was building a four lane bypass across the front of my property and I was one of the few people allowed to drive on it. Anyway, late one night I take the Bird out on the deserted bypass for some braking tests. I take it up to 80 and hammer the binders. So far so good. I turn around, accelerate to 80, and once again nail the brakes. The pedal felt a little soft- just before it dropped to the floor. I had just put new semi-metallic front pads and rear shoes on the thing, and it still couldn't handle two hard stops in succession. Needless to say, I didn't instruct at that school.
Yep, just as good as a 6 Series...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My son is looking to buy a BMW 328i. The dealers near us only stock xi’s. For some odd reason that’s all they ever have. You can get a 328i, but they have to trade for one. :mad:
Do you just negotiate the price as if the 328i was sitting on their lot?
We can talk later about obtaining the actual car.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Off to the New England Auto Show this week! Hope greenpea doesn't sell me a car (with the Extended Warranty and "Touch of Class")!
Phew!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The US operating(driving is too generous a term) public has been dumbed down to the point that people actually believe that it is suicidal to attempt driving a RWD car on anything other than dry pavement. So now the sheeple think that AWD is even necessary in Florida.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Who was calling the plays for the Eagles in the fourth quarter??!! Whoever it was he should be sent back to the minors. You have a four point lead with 10 minutes to go and you get pass happy! A good coach would have gone to the ground game and run the clock down. Score another touchdown and put the game out of reach. Even a field goal would have made it a seven point game. But noooo, they grasped defeat out of the mouth of victory!
Mackabee
Mackabee
I'll call him tomorrow and see where he is in his process.
Thanks.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Yeah - tell me about it. I have a "discussion" about the merits of winter tires vs. front wheel drive about every two days this time of year. No one seems concerned about "stop" or "corner" - just "go".
There are very few places my 325i can't go with snow on the ground with a good set of winter skins wrapped around the rims.
I even put a set of Blizzaks on the wifes Forester 2 weeks ago.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
She was taken to the police station, finger printed, and placed in jail. After about two hours, the arresting officer came to her cell and released her. He apologized to her by saying that he saw her "What Would Jesus Do?" bumper sticker, her Christian fish symbol on the back of her car, and her cross hanging from her rear view mirror. Based on that, he assumed that she had stolen the car.
Yup, I think people forget what they put on their bumpers.
-Moo
Hey Mack good to see you working hard !
We have a system similar to your CRM... But the only way to see another sales person notes is if you have a universal managment code for the system. Is your system the smae way? What happens here is some gets ( steals the password and that is how we see the other store notes).
We have 15 stores in the New England area...
One thing I have found is that even we do it too, is to put fake notes in when we know our customer is going to go to one of our sister stores. I am not sure if you know what I am saying. I trying to type fast because I have 3 cars to deliver today.
So to recap... Do you have a mangers password to see your buddies notes or can everyone see each others notes??
GP
What a game... i was worried I was going to loose my bet with Joel and Jmonroe
Unfortunatley you won't see me at the New England Motor show
Too much work to do right now... Business is picking up
GP
I put winter tires on my wife's 3 Series and had the same experience. It got around just fine.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I would feel less confident in other RWD cars that don't have the near 50/50 weight balance of a BMW.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Richard--
I don't know if you ever listen to Cartalk, but recently they played a song during one of their musical interludes called "I Was Just Flipped Off by a Silver Haired old Lady with a 'Honk If You Love Jesus' Sticker on the Bumper of Her Car". Maybe it's based on the same woman from your story. It's a damn funny song, hope you get a chance to hear it.
On a similar note, I rented a DVD recently called "Flywheel". I thought the story about a used car salesman who eventually reforms himself might be grist for the SFTSF Forum--should have read the plot synopsis more closely. Pretty low production values and after about 20 minutes it became clear that the film was designed to proselytize the heathen masses (for a church in GA it turns out). I don't think anyone would argue against the uplifting theme of redemption. However, it was incredibly heavy-handed so I ended up skipping through huge segments. Before his "epiphany" the used car lot owner engages in many of the classic BHPH tactics that have been covered repeatedly on this forum and others.
Gogiboy
did somebody you know told you that Mazda is a Junk? and now you are having a change of heart? Did you research the brand before jumping in?
Brake squeaking, you say is the problem? When does it happen? In mornings when it is cold? all the time? specific temperatures?
God help him.
Go home after 8, that's what I do. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Unfortunately I dont have that luxury. My dealership is open for 12 hours today and they need my experience and guidance to get them through every single one of them.
Heading to the show on Friday. Looking forward to checking out the Jag XF/XK, Audi A/S 5, CTS and assorted other unobtainables...
And, Hyundai! Why? They have the best SWAG. Followed by Suzuki... Love the free stuff!
Have the Pats been exposed? Were the Eagles that good or were the Pats that average? I think full credit goes to Philly, they played a a heck of a game. Monday night will tell, will the Ravens learn from the Colts/Eagles or will the Pats regroup and return to form? Also, had Moss not received that bogus interference call in the end zone, and/or Gostkowski not missed the 32 yarder, maybe a different game? Will the Pats even line up with any runners Monday night???
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Haven't heard that it affects taxes yet......
Think about it... all it is, is advertising....
A lot of people take vacation that week. Almost everyone i know is on vacation that week. Companies shut down...
Add in that it is the last week of the month and tadah... you have the best deals of the year Ad campaign going on...
GP
There feels like a lot late games this year for the Pats.
I think Philly really brought there A game last night. It was nice to watch a whole game on th edge of my seat.
For Randy Moss I didn't see offensive pass interfernce but than again i am not a ref. :confuse:
Where is the auto show being held this year? Bayside?
GP
College Football
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SUVs and Smart Shopper
Yeah I know what you mean
here in alabama we have to pay state taxes on inventory, so i guess it could be true. but its really more advertising fodder than anything.
Save yourself the hassle and go to another dealers service department and let them fix your brakes.