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Comments
I was going to have my fun with the visually impaired comment but I can't. I have vision issues as well and am quite thankful I'm made it this long with it not getting to the point where I couldn't drive.
r. The car stops in the first tenth of a second, but you keep on at the same rate you were going in the car until something stops you - the steering wheel, dashboard or windshield - if you're not wearing your safety belt.. Bad enough at 15 miles an hour, but a 30 miles you hit "the wall" four times as hard as you would at 15. Or to put it another way, with the same impact you'd feel as if you fell three stories.
Why even chance it!
Hitting the steering wheel. People lose all their teeth and their jaws in an accident at slow speed. Why go through all the pain and expense and missout a few months of life over such a small matter....5 seconds to put on a belt.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Smart kid. That's funny.
We were at a sales meeting in Miami and one new father called home. He told the kid he was in Miami. The kid said why are you in Your-ami?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
AMEN to that! Ah, for the good old days.
Richard
It has been 26 years since my son said that and since then I have seen something similar in print...but I heard it from him first. He's 31 now and living the good life !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
There were probably a lot more deaths in proportion to the number of cars on the road and the miles driven. Without seatbelts people often went through the front window. Lots of people were impaled on steering wheel posts before these were improved, also lots of heads going into hard dashboards and knobs before they were redesigned. Lots of chrome coming off and going through people.
Those cars of the 50s 60s and 70s, though they had lots of heavy gauge steel, were pretty crudely designed from a safety perspective.
Richard, just put on your damned seatbelt and don't find excuses not to wear it! We might need some grammar advice one day.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I almost didn't get my license renewed last month. My doctor had to step in with the DMV. I'm good for six more years. It does tend to make me a more careful driver. Naturally, my wife likes to play co-pilot. :P
Richard
Richard, I will second that advice !! I have ways of finding out too !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Richard
Probably, and crumple zones, and better engineering. A big one I forgot to mention before was engines coming into the passenger compartment. That was a big danger, until cars were designed so the engine would go under the passenger compartment.
Exploding gas tanks were a much bigger problem too.
We have learned a lot, but only if people take advantage of what is out there for them.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
Good, glad you are listening,
Just like a good student should (heh, heh)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A few years ago, I posted some hints for buyers that will make everyone's life easier.
1. Try to be friendly. For some, I know that's difficult but it sure makes a transaction a lot more stress free.
2. If you have small kids or dogs, try to find a sitter if you possibly can. Kids whine, get bored, get hungry and sometimes they trash our cars.
3. Don't try to conceal the fact you have a trade in only to spring it on us after a deal has been struck. There is no benefit to you despite what the "experts" tell you. Any salesperson worth his salt will usually be able to smell a "hidden trade" anyway.
4. Know that your trade is worth whatever it is really worth which just may not be what some guide says it is worth. If you see one "just like yours" on Craigslist that is "going for" 12,000, please remember 12,000 is what the seller is ASKING.
5. Don't test drive cars you have no intension of buying.
6. Don't test drive cars in an abusive manner or in a manner that scares your salesperson. We have no idea of what your driving skills may or may not be.
7. If you feel pressured or uncomfortable with your salesperson or the process in general, let them know that and be prepared to walk out.
It really doesn't have to be hard and it can actually be fun!
Good points all, and I particularly liked #4 above. It is easy to see your car for sale for $12000, and think that is what you should get!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
after trying to influence her into something potentialy reasonable, by my metrics, she finally put her foot down.
i want this vehicle(45k or so msrp) for 30k.
might be do'able though.
Richard
To anyone other than a fetus this disease is no big deal. To the fetus it's as bad as it gets.
St. Paul's? Van General? Lions Gate? Royal Columbian? My ex-wife worked at three out of four of those, in the ER. Probably too long ago to be relevant to you -- '73 - '78. God, I miss Vancouver.
Seat belts work every time they're tried. In my '65 MGB I had a four-point racing harness & still don't feel right in a car unless I'm cinched down tightly.
All in good time.
In 1945 there were 30,000 traffic fatalities in the U.S. The population was less than half of what it is now and a very much smaller proportion of the population drove back then. So, yes, there were a LOT more traffic deaths back then based on population.
For reference, 1980, around the time that three point seatbelt systems were mandated by law), there were about 50,000 traffic fatalities and we're currently around 40,000 for annual figures. Again, keep in mind that the number of drivers has increased faster than the population over that entire span of time. It's clear that seatbelts save lives and, today, we have the added benefit of additional safety features (crumple zones, air bags, etc.). Confounding this trend, we've seen a migration to much larger vehicles over the past decade or so which pose their own dangers.
In any case, if we extrapolated the 1945 numbers to account for population growth alone we would be seeing 60,000 annual fatalities today compared with the actual 40,000. Accounting for the increased proportion of licensed drivers today would further boost that extrapolation quite significantly.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thanks for the ratio comparisons. It makes perfect sense. In fact, it makes NO sense not to make use of the safety features provided for us. Though it bothers me physically, I do try to wear seat belts. I never really minded them until they went to the harness style from the shoulder.
Richard
It is inherited only by the first born male in each generation. My father and grandfather had it. Without going into detail, it involves one missing Chromosome and one pigment discoloration. My doctor at Duke University Eye Clinic just retired. He was (is) the foremost authority on the genetic issue. Since we have no children, the condition stops with me.
Richard
I'm sorry to hear that the harness style bothers you but it's this very style along with all the other safety improvements that have reduced the fatalities today. I don't particularly like BIG government but since drivers have refused to be responsible for their poor driving habits I'm in favor of this part of Big government. If it saves the life of just one of my family members it's worth it. However, in reality, it will save the lives of many people over the coming years and yes that will include the lives of loved ones of our fellow posters if not me and some of them.
I've worn seat belts before they were mandated by law and I've told the tale that made me a believer in them while I was a member of a flight crew during my Navy days.
Yes they work and you only have to look around to see the proof.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I worked at VGH. Ummm, I wasn't born till 77, so yeah it was waaaaaaay before my time. I didn't come to Canada till 88, and I was at VGH from 96 to 03.
Funny enough most of the original buildings were still there until a couple of years ago. Now only a handful remain.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
4. Know that your trade is worth whatever it is really worth which just may not be what some guide says it is worth. If you see one "just like yours" on Craigslist that is "going for" 12,000, please remember 12,000 is what the seller is ASKING.
I like it when buyers will conveniently find the highest asking price for their trade-in online and want that money for their car, yet when it comes to the car they're buying from us, they'll seek out the rattiest example for the cheapest price and base their offer below that, even if the comparison car doesn't have the same equipment. :confuse:
Lately I've been getting quite a few disillusioned people who somehow have a weird concept that they can upgrade their recently bought used car to something 2-3 years newer that costs $10k more, and have same or lower payments. :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Really? All along I thought Sales stories were supposed to have been mainly from the dealer side. :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Very interesting, but, does this take into account many people back then didn't have a car (after the war) and if people did it was usually only one family car. Now most families have at least 2 cars and many have 3 or more. So, though the population may have doubled, I imagine the car population is much greater in proportion.
Another consideration to factor in might be speed. Basically, without the super highways we have now top speeds must have been a lot less.
Good and interesting research though.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you don't mind me asking it is not LCA, is it? I went to a Project3000 event this past fall, and it was the first I had heard of it.
--Yes, but to counter that, there was no "55" MPH mandate back then either. States were free to choose whatever speed they wanted and heck you could do 75 through major metropolitan areas, and the country was just about every man for himself...
And I'll always think of her as an idiot. She was riding in the back seat of a W140-series S-Class Mercedes-Benz, which was a main battle tank masquerading as a luxury sedan. (If God told me that I'd have to be in an auto accident today but left it up to me to choose the car, I'd pick the S-Class Benz from that era.) Her bodyguard, who was riding in the front seat & was thus closer to the point of impact, sustained severe injuries but survived. Di would have lived if she had buckled up.
Personally, seeing even more "bailout money" coming out of our pockets for the auto companies, I believe that money would be much better spent rewarding teachers. At least the ROI will be much better. Again, thanks to you and all teachers.
isell....great list. I agree with all of it....AS A BUYER!
Frankly, it would be, at best, a distraction, if I were trying to make a major financial decision about a vehicle if I was surrounded by my pets, my young one, etc. The very last thing I'd need when trying to do so is to hear every 2 minutes..."daddy, can I...., will you....., I have to go potty.....I'm tired....are we done yet?, etc.
Further, you can see families pile into the showroom climbing in and out of vehicles, with the parent stating they seek the opinion of whether "li'l johnny" or li'l janey" likes this or that about the vehicle.
Their opinion doesn't matter. You don't need to seek it. Nor, do you need their approval. They aren't buying it. They aren't paying for it.
I remember a long time ago, my (then) wife had planned for a new car. We had saved up for a couple of years to buy one. We discussed what we wanted. While I know this us frustrating for a sales person, once we narrowed it down, it was time for test drives. This was back when GG, Jr was a toddler. Instead of dragging him with us to test drive together, we went separately to test drive what we were interested in. When we went out to test drive, one of us had to stay home to watch GG, Jr.
The result was, either one or the other would go and do the test drive. Come home to compare notes. Then we'd go for a 2nd round where the other of us would repeat the process, telling the sales person we had to discuss it with our spouse.
The process could take a week or more. But, we weren't going to try to make a major decision hauling diapers, bottles, be distracted with crying, etc to distract us.
It is my contention that had the Princess and Mr. Al Fayed been wearing their seat belts, it is highly likely that they would have survived this crash with major but non-life-threatening injuries, just like their bodyguard. It is sad to reflect on how needless these deaths were, but we can turn this tragedy around. Surely, the number of people that have died in automobile accidents, worldwide, rivals the number that have died of AIDS or due to landmines. It would be a fitting legacy if we could use this tragedy to educate people about the use of seatbelts, once and for all, well and above all other safety systems designed into modern cars, as the primary device to save lives in car accidents.
Many, particularly in the United States, will incorrectly argue that alcohol caused this accident. There are surely some misguided safety [non-permissible content removed] which will hastily cling to the "speed kills" argument. There are even those that could be well-meaning but impetuous enough to conclude that the lack of expensive airbag technology for rear-seat passengers is to blame for Diana's death. It is clear that driver error, which may have been furthered by the motorcycles' involvement, as well as the Mystery Fiat Uno, ultimately caused the driver to veer into the cement pillar.
In racing, one of the most dangerous reflexes to avoid, particularly in rear-wheel-drive cars, is the reflex to immediately lift off the throttle (gas pedal) when a potentially dangerous situation is sensed on the part of the driver. Unless it is done gently, it can redistribute the car's weight such that the rear end of the car no longer maintains traction, causing the car to enter an uncontrollable skid. This is especially true in a downhill situation, where, due to gravity, a driver is more likely to lift off the throttle, as it was in the tunnel. This would explain why the car aimed towards the pillar, whether or not the Fiat was involved.
But these arguments are merely secondary. The Princess' car could just as easily have been fleeing a truly dangerous situation and been in similar circumstances. I am saddened to conclude that the reason the Princess and her companion died was because they did not wear their seatbelts. The fact is: seat belts save lives, and are the single most effective safety system in any automobile.
Romantic followers of the British Throne find some solace in claims that Princess Diana spoke her last words to doctors arriving at the accident scene. This is utterly false. One of the conclusions Mercedes-Benz was able to make regarded what happened in the last seconds of Diana's life. On impact, her unrestrained body flew into the back of the front passenger seat and further into the bullet-proof windshield where she landed. Had the glass not been bullet-proof, she might have been ejected from the car. She still would have likely been killed. Mercifully, the impact killed her within seconds. The reason the bodyguard's injuries were so severe is because of Diana's impact into his seat at 100 km per hour. Privately, officials were convinced that all four occupants of the car would have survived the accident had they been wearing seatbelts. Mercedes-Benz has significant crash data of their own to make such a determination. However, for reasons of liability, they are not able to make any such claims in public.
I am not sure who garage boy is but all of this sounds logical to me. For more;
Lady D
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Their opinion doesn't matter. You don't need to seek it. Nor, do you need their approval. They aren't buying it. They aren' paying for it.
Of course their opinion doesn't matter. But as a parent, I would like to know if my 8 year is able to move the lever on the second row of seats and get into the back and buckle themselves on their own. Since I don't want to spent the next odd some of years opening the rear hatch and buckling them in every time we get into the car.
I also want to know if I can fit my booster/car seats in the 2nd and 3rd row. Thank goodness for this test a few years ago, since this saved me from a Highlander purchase.
Finally, a few months ago, when I was out looking for an SUV. I narrowed my search down to 4 cars. You probably would have hated me, because I walked into the showroom with with a hockey bag, a hockey stick and softball gear. I asked the salesman if I could load the gear into the rear seat and if it fit, I would be interested in a test drive.
My point is as a parent, your family and kids may play an important decision in the car you "need" to buy. And often, this may require towing the short people in to ensure it is functional and meets your specific needs.
I worried about things but found out that it was just mom getting exposed to the parasite - not anything that goes beyond me. My kids have inherited other quirky things from me but not that.
Richard
I regret that you will always think of the former princess, and one time future Queen of England. as an idiot. Though she showed poor judgment in not wearing a seat belt, she most certainly was far from being an idiot. Her work with children, the elderly, and the poor was very commendable for this young lady. Her life changed at age 18, and the adjustments for her were very difficult.
As for the accident, there were many factors involved---not wearing seat belts, a drunken driver, the stress of being pursued by the paparazzi, etc. It was the tragic loss of a young couple in love. I guess that we have to leave it at that.
Richard
What a wonderful thing for a father to say! Thank you for that. It was my great pleasure to have taught school for 28 years. While I enjoyed my additional 12 years as an administrator, nothing will replace my time with the kids. Had it not been for having to think of my retirement pension, I would have never left the kids. Being an administrator was the only way to substantially build up my earnings.
Instructing new teachers today is my way of returning to the classroom. I enjoy every minute of it. It is parents such as yourself who have given their support and actually encouraged many teachers to continue their work. I thank you for all that you have done as a parent.
Richard
You may be new here, but I like your sassy attitude. I think that you will fit right in to this thread.
Richard
I think that the correct way of looking at this is from the viewpoint that every piece of safety equipment ADDS to the overall safety. It should never be an either/or discussion but rather how many of the various items can we have in one vehicle.
(in no particular order)
- sober
- rested
- experienced/trained
- seatbelts
- airbags
- stability control
- pre-crash stuff that some cars have (seatbelt pretension, maximum braking assist, etc)
- whatever else I may have missed
Just like in computer security, you have defense in depth or layered security, you don't want to rely on any 1 thing because it is never enough.
Driver, that piece was beautifully written and explained. I agree with you totally, and I thank you for it. I thought of all of you this morning. I took my Lab to the groomer here in the village. I wore my seat belt AND so did my Lab. You should have seen him sitting up in the passenger seat with his seat belt. I was surprised that he didn't mind it a bit. We DO learn from others.
Richard
And for a period back then people didn't drive as much as they do now. I lived in a rural area. We didn't go to Walmart every day or to the grocery store. That was a once-a-week trip (9 miles). We occasionally went to the local general store for foods, but that was 2 miles.
Through the decades people have driven more and more as part of their daily life for shopping or pleasure.
People also didn't have long commutes to work. That's a factor of the 80s and 90s in my mind.
Fatalities:
I recall a local resident driving to work 9 miles in one of 3 local towns with lots of employers. He didn't notice an ironworks bridge had dropped at one end when someone took a heavy truck over the bridge during the night and was killed at 35-40 mph when his car dropped down about 8 feet. Today that is survivable in my cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Plus, I would hope that a simple lever push/pull or buckling a seat belt (how hard can any of that possibly be?) can be taught to a young one.....at home, after the vehicle is purchased.
For me, having a child along is a hinderance when trying to concentrate on making a $20K, $30K or $40K decision. Maybe I don't have the skills to do so. But, if I'm comparing features, mentally recalling details of a test drive, running numbers through my head, trying to decide what's best......low APR financing or writing a check, etc I don't have the time nor bandwidth to spend on my child. I can do one, or the other, but not both at the same time.
1st one was when I ploughed into a fireengine that was broken down in the middle of the road, and had no indications that it was there (11pm). I did not have seatbelts in the car, and as I saw the truck, I stretched my arms out and held on to the steering wheel. That prevented me from hitting my chest into the steering wheel.
2,3,4 were all rear end accidents. All happening when I am waiting at a stop light and the driver just ploughs into my car. Seat belts saved me from throwing myself into the steering wheel.
Snake, I know a lot of drivers who do not wear seatbelts because they believe in "jumping" out of the car when they see that they are going to get hit. It may be good only if you can actually see and react that fast.