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Comments
This ... this "knowing" is what is missed, these days, with the use of the internet or faxes or emails. The gentle touch, the voice inflection, the touch and feel of the actual cars. The "personal" connection.
Often, a salesperson can masquerade as a fleet manager but can't get very far doing that in person! The moment there is a boss to check with (other than trade value or credit decision) then you know you're NOT with someone empowered enough to make a deal decision. This, you cannot see over the internet or a faxed request.
CD
My wife and I both had heard that clicking noise in the rear area. It sounded as if it was a metal strap lapping against metal. We could hear it when going over a mild bump but particularly when on a road that tended to make the vehicle ride up and down(as if in a boat and going over small swells). Anyway, I rode in the back and could hear the annoying clicking sound coming from the top of the rear quarter panel, directly at the bottom of the rear window.
After considerable time of being in the dealership and with them exploring around with our vehicle, they believe that the noise is from the rear struts. The dealership claimed that they had to remove each rear strut, replace some type of rubber mounting, re-grease the area and then torque the strut back down to the vehicle.
At this time, we do not hear the same clicking noise as before. I do not know how long this fix will last. Anyway, this may be a source of your clicking noise. Initially, when I was riding in the back cargo area, the noise seemed to reverberate up into the upper area of the side and roof, but luckily, I think the noise was narrowed down to the struts.
By the way, before the dealership performed this fix, they were convinced that it was a manufacturing defect with the Unibody not being welded correctly, and had attempted to disassemble the rear wheel well sheet metals and then weld them back. It didn't work. Don't let them do that. Go the strut route first!.
I had previously posted a similar question in another Townhall section. I think it was in the service and repair one.
Good Luck
First off, you described your sound as a clicking noise, and although you didn't mention it in this post, I assume that it occurs while the car was being cooled down after it had sat in the sun or heat for awhile. That sounds very similar to the symptoms I have, although I would characterize my sound more like a rubber dart being pulled off a window or wall, and the frequency of the sound seems to diminish as the car cools.
As for your fix, I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to when you mentioned that you removed the rear wing. Are you talking about the rear spoiler? If not, could you be more specific. If you did mean the rear spoiler, since that is an option that not everyone has, is there any AL owners out there that is getting this clicking
noise, BUT doesn't have a spoiler? I was fairly certain that the noise I was hearing was coming from somewhere around the sunroof (which by the way, do you have one?) area, but I suppose could have been coming from further back?
Finally, I would think that since this problem seems fairly common, rather than having all of us AL owners trying this on our own, we should somehow get this information to Toyota (maybe Cliff or one of the other sales persons could pass it on through "official" channels) so that we could get this "fix" done at our local dealers.
Any other thoughts???
If Toyota was smart and pro-active, they would monitor this site to get a heads-up on future fixes
First, as I home office, our HL sits in the garage most all of every day (although the garage here in San Antonio has already hit 96 degrees a few days ago). Nevertheless, the noise would occur when it was driven and hit the random "bump in the road" or strong winds. It WAS more frequent when the outside temps were warmer. Boulder, the noise is not like a rubber dart...etc., but a distinctive erratic "click" sound, much as if the plastic liners in the cargo area were shifting against each other or bouncing up and down on top of each other.
Secondly, the source of my sound was the rear wing...yes, the rear spoiler. I have a V6 2wd Limited (pkg INCLUDES rear spoiler), but NO moonroof. Don't know for sure, but maybe your noise is a different problem than what mine was. Since two of you are stating that it seems to come from the area of the moonroof, my suspicion is that you do indeed have a different problem.
Regarding letting the dealer do it for me, I decided that I could try to solve this one without the hassle of going to them. I like to think that I have reasonably good mechanical aptitude and removing a few screws or bolts just didn't seem like much of a challenge. In fact, it only required a 10mm (or was it 9mm) deep socket and about 15 minutes, including the time to lube the gaskets.
On a final note, NEVER would I let solutions progress to the point of letting the dealer get a torch near the HL (or any other vehicle I own/owned).
Part number is PT413-69010-14 for charcoal, box contained all the relevant mounting brackets,adapter plates,bolts, washers etc. No installation sheet is provided, but looks relatively straight forward for the mechanically inclined. Looks like 2 small holes may need to be drilled. I will install later next week when schedule permits some driveway time. List is 199.00, paid 159.20+tax. Outer box is marked showing that the part is made in the U.S.
Also- if an HL is unavailable on the lot and you have to factory order it, do you pay full amount when you place the order or just a down payment?
To silence the noise, I stopped, opened the door on the affected side, placed a wash cloth across the top of the door toward the front, then closed the door over the wash cloth. I then carefully pulled the wash cloth in so that there wasn't enough left hanging outside to flap. Voila! No wind noise! Apparently it doesn't take much pressure to stop the seals from leaking and vibrating. I might devise a more elegant temporary solution this weekend to use on windy days while I wait for Toyota to get around to fixing the problem. I don't know if this is a universal solution or not. The effectiveness may vary depending on the direction and speed of the wind, speed of the car, atmospheric pressure, heavy breathing in the car, etc.
As regards the beating noise when the back windows are down, it is indeed loud, even painful at times. However, I have found it pretty easy to adjust the 4 windows and the moonroof so that the noise stops. Of course, you can also just run the AC. However, I do like to have at least one of the back windows down part way when the dog is riding in back on a sunny day--I'm not sure how much AC reaches the back.
As far as the channels along the sides of the windshield, I have no idea what they are for. My Sienna also has them. I don't think they are involved in the wind noise problem, but I'm not sure. I engineered the Wash Cloth Fix for the noise in the front--somebody else can try taping these channels, or whatever, to see if it has any effect.
How do I go about trademarking a wash cloth design with the Toyota emblem? Let's see, 70,000 Highlanders, that's 140,000 wash cloths (I'll make'em mirror image, one for the left, one for the right). Maybe charge $5/cloth, which would be a steal--Toyota would charge $10. Heck, everyone should have 4--one for each door, just in case the rear doors start leaking too. Make that 5--another for the hatch. That's 350,000 wash cloths @$5/ea for a total of $1,750,000. That should be enough to put my kid through college!
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/KlugerV/index.html
Buick Rendezvous- pretty good looking design, I think a little larger then HL has 3 sets of
seats, which is pretty cool.. Is Buick part of Chevy? I get confused cause I do not want to own
a Chevy, Will test drive it for kicks, but most likely no competion for HL. Gm type quality gives
me doubts. NIce engine size.
Saturn Vue- coming out in the Fall, plastic fenders and such I kinda like that, price starting
below 20,000 I hear, Engine not that much bigger then Base HL. But cargo is bigger then HL I
think. I can wait that long I guess
Honda CRV- coming out with new bigger Engine this month, but I already crossed that one off
my list. To small behind the seats. Great pricing on these models though and quality is top
notch. Great first car, "Made in Japan" you gotta love that
Honda new Acura type suv- coming out next year, can't wait that long.
Honda Oddessy- Real competion for the HL, only thing is price for me about 2k more then I'm
willing to pay. But still on list.
Acura MDX- Proabally dream car, but I can't afford it. Have an integra now and its top notch.
Ford Explorer 2002- Was going to give it a shot, but price for XLT too high, I think even with
discount from manufactor. Hell I have to face facts they suck, I mean blaming Firestone for
bad design, just like an American car company
Toyota 4 runner- This one sucks always has and probally always will
Toyota Sequina - Yea right like I can afford it
Toyota Ciena- Not bad, didnt test drive it but out of my price range.
Ford Excape- Maybe too small price is low though on truck frame drives like truck don't like
that.
Mazda Tribute- Same size as Excape, price higher, drives better then Excape, prettier too,
This is one to look at if room in real is as large as Toyota could be good.
Mazda MPV- Good competitor especially if I get it used with 10k miles on it can get it for 17k,
more loot in my pocket and good size. Engine a little small but has enough bells and
whistles. Keep hearing rumor of bigger engine coming but then what would it cost. "made in
Japan gotta love that"
Nissan- They all stink and priced too high
Suzuki XL-7- Interesting SUV, 19-25k in price but rebates probally all over it, has 3 rows of
seats not bad. Small engine, I think only available in manual go figure. Not great competion.
Kia, Hyundia etc- Cute not guts in engine and relialblity still questionable even with 10/100k
warrenty on power train. Owned a Hyundai once gear shift broke off while I was driving, I gues
that warrenty would have covered it.
Toyota Highlander- Don't know if I want a 4 or 6 cylinder. ah and.... well I guess thats about it
, oh yeah paying 1500.00 in state sales tax stinks. Damn what do they do with that
money. "made in Japan" gotta love that.
All other American SUVs- Who cares, they break all the time.
I seem to be on the right message board. So far so good.
Is this a styling feature or a useful aid while driving?
I'm curious...what will you be using your new vehicle for? Answering that would go a long way in trimming that list down.
Buick, Saturn, and Chevrolet are all divisions of General Motors. I happen to share your opinion of GM quality.
The Ford Escape is not a truck. Like the Highlander, Honda CRV, Acura MDX, Lexus RX300 (and others), it is built on a car chasis and handles like a car. The Escape and Mazda Tribute are cousins in that both are built at the same Ford assembly plant near Kansas City. Both the Escape and Tribute have been burdened with at least 6 official recalls and numerous other quality issues. Many of us who bought HL's previously considered either an Escape or Tribute, but reconsidered after all the problems surfaced. Hopefully Ford and Mazda will improve these vehicles for the 2002 model year.
You should also consider the Subaru Forester and the Outback. For the money (low $20's), the Subaru Forester is very highly rated by Consumer Reports. I traded a 1998 Forester in for my HL. I was very happy with it but I wanted something a bit more luxorious than Subaru offered. You also didn't specifically mention the Hyundai Santa Fe. It might be worth considering if your budget is $20-24,000. Good luck.
Most dealers avoid factory orders on Japanese cars. Customers tend to loose patience after 2 months and end up buying whatever they can that is close in equipment. That means the dealer will eventually receive your car and have to find another buyer for it. If your choice was really odd, they may have a hard time finding a new home for it. Generally, dealers don't want to take a risk like this and will charge a higher price for this kind of order.
The other problem is pricing. If the 2002 goes up in price, or if options change, you will have to live with it.
Orders can be done. Just make absolutely sure you are not willing to compromise something to get one sooner and more easily.
1. I'm really going 78 when my speedometer says 75 (no wonder I am rarely passed on the freeway these days).
2. Instead of getting 23mpg, I'm really getting about 24mpg.
Anybody else notice this?
Forester: 22.98 mpg over 44,000 miles
HL (V6 AWD): 20.13 mpg over 2,300 miles
HL Wins: ride (slight edge), quietness (not counting the infamous "wind noise"), seat comfort and much better adjustability, controls (especially stereo and heater/AC), fit and finish, stereo sound (with the JBL speakers), better visibility (you sit higher), easier to change oil (even though the filter is difficult to reach--the Forester has a shield that has to be removed), privacy glass (maybe Forester has that now, but my '98 didn't, anti-skid control available, back windows roll all the way down (Forester doesn't--but HL's are of limited usefulness at highway speeds because of beating noise), back seat much more comfortable, smoother engine and drive train (slight edge--Forester is also excellent), smoother AC compressor (you can feel it turn off and on in Forester), slightly smoother ride, doesn't seem to be blown around by really high winds as much as Forester, access to the back seat while moving (like a minivan), better paint job than the Subaru, better arm rest (Forester didn't have one)
Forester Wins: tracking down the road at 75 mph(takes more attention to keep the HL in your lane whereas the Subaru was a dream cruising down the road--I think maybe the HL reacts to steering a little too quickly at high speeds), handling in general, easier to maneuver and park, more fun to drive, easier to wash, easier to clean windshield, cruise control retains setting even when you stop (you have to reset the cruise on the HL--I HATE that!!!), I liked the tires better, excellent crash test results (we don't know about the HL yet--I got a discount for safety on my Forester insurance that I don't get on the HL), better front seat cup holder (many will disagree with me here, but I liked it--kept my diet Cokes cold since it was right in front of AC vent), hand lever for parking brake (HL has foot pedal--push on, push off), brakes, slightly more ground clearance, better "cubby holes" here and there--HL is very deficient, pollen filter available,
General comments: The Forester seemed to have a windshield that was too soft, if such a thing is possible--it either pitted too easily or it was just unlucky to get hit so often--lots and lots of tiny little pits as well as some large ones. The Forester did very well in snow--don't know about the HL yet. The Forester's size made it really easy to zip around town, park, fit in the garage, etc. It was really a fun vehicle to drive. Except for seat comfort it cruises down the highway better also, but is a little noiser. I was having a little trouble with paint washing off the bumpers of the Forester (both front and back--from car washes, I guess).
I like both vehicles a lot--most of these differences are minor. I would be very happy with either. If I wanted a smaller vehicle, I'd take the Forester. If I wanted a larger one I'd take the HL. In fact, I tried to talk my wife into letting me keep the Forester and trade in the minivan (a Sienna) on the HL, but no dice.
That's all I can think of right now. Any specific questions?
Yeah you guys are right Subaru makes the list as possabilites too. I have just been avoiding it because it looks like a car, my parents had 2 Subarus in the past were great cars, paint was kinda weak if I recall right but thats minor. But I agree it has possablities. Test drove the Honda Oddessy its still up there for choices, its just kinda big maybe too big to drive around a lot. But can't complain about the room, its great. Quality is great too ughh!!!
Looks to me its up to the HL, Honda or maybe a Mazda, The Ford Escape is built on a car frame not truck frame I'm 99% sure of that the Mazda is built on a car frame the 626.
Funny the Toyota salesmen I spoke to this week realy put down Ford Escape bad when I said I was looking into the Mazda as well. That kinda talk does'nt effect me much though its still a competitor.
You can't complain much about the HL as far as safety goes they got that locked up I think.
The dealer I went to this weekend did'nt have any 4 cylinders and said they are hard to get, yet I went to another dealer and they had em. They will say anything to sell the one they have on the lot. I learned from the last time I bought a car, its probally better just to order the one you want. You get exactly what you want. Funny how everytime I want to buy a car they don't have the one I want. They always have the high end ones. In fact the dealer I went to this week had tons of Limited, maybe they need to change the name from Limited to Available.
Going to pay cash for my HL, thought I had the cash all saved and found out wive siphoned out $ 3000.00 of my truck loot. Now I have to put it off a little longer. Ughhh
Evidently there are hundreds of thousands of people that purchase their vehicles for "quality and reliability"As to "looks"... it is all in the mind of the beholder. To each his own.
Bye the way got my decisions down to either the Highlander or the Mazda MPV.
Steve
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Good luck with your purchase.
Don
Someone asked about chrome wheels for the Highlander few weeks back. There is a site at www.4chromewheels.com
Which will send you chrome wheels that are exactly like your alloys in exchange for your alloys. The price for the Highlander wheels is $595 for the set of four. I think thats a bit steep for an exchange.
The parts that were replaced were:
1) Brakes - Master Cylinder
2) Brakes - Brake Booster
The total repair bill was $1,400 - which was 100% covered by warranty.
I have no complaints about the service to my Highlander, it was just frustrating purchasing a new car only to drive it for two weeks before a major repair was required.
But, now that I have it - I am again happy!
Jerry Vertigan
If you must have a V6, obviously forget the 2002 CR-V. But if you need a roomy, fuel efficient car-based SUV with Honda (or Toyota) reliability, then I think the CR-V would be competition for the HL. It all depends on the intended usage.