Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Make Me a Better (Online) Car Salesman!
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I don't negotiate that way and for the most part payments aren't an issue at our store unless you are talking lease payments and in that cause you have to negotiate a payment on a lease.
I have actually had customers ask that I show them how the numbers break down using the four square method though. Not in so many words at least cause they for the most part do not know what it is called but after laying the numbers out how they asked I was in a four square grid format.
If you have so many issues with buying cars from dealerships just go buy highline cars at smaller volume dealers and you won't run into all these tricks you keep complaining about. Either that or buy off ebay and private sellers.
If that method gets you the balance between price and hassle-reduction that you seek, then use it. We don't all need to take the same path to arrive at our destinations, just so long as we arrive safely and happily. I enjoy the dance -- I cut deals for a living, so for me, it's just part of the entertainment.
By the way, to clarify, I haven't quite spelled out everything I do -- for one, I don't wish to fully educate the dealers as to what they should be looking for. (Knowledge is power, so you may as well withhold the knowledge.)
The main thing is that since car sales closing methods are aggressive by design, I respond to them by taking a somewhat zen approach by avoiding direct confrontation, at least until we're past the sales guy's "point of no return" (you'll know this when you see it.) Immediate confrontation and a "you can't push me around!" attitude simply turns the negotiation into a tug-of-war that also gives him valuable intelligence about how much I really know, a tidbit of info that I don't want to give away any earlier than I have to.
I have to ask, when you shop who makes the offer first? You or the dealer?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
For one, I don't have any issues with buying cars, I'm just explaining the typical system to people. For me, buying a car is relatively painless, and I even kinda enjoy it.
For another, buying a high-end car is no guarantee whatsoever that the games don't get played -- just look at our would-be BMW lessee above for a good example. But again, it's no big deal for the consumer who learns that it really is a game, and that it is easily played if you approach it with some knowledge and the right attitude. Frankly, it would be a tougher game to play if the dealer tactics weren't so common, but the systems are consistent enough that it is easy to adjust accordingly.
I know with the company I work for, our leads that come in from Mazda's web site say absolutely nothing about a price quote. I learned my lesson after an internet shopper was quite mad that they did not get a quote. He eventually did come in to buy a car, and I showed him what I received on my end, and he apologized for being rude in his initial email.
I also give the same quote to everyone over the internet. Our dealership quotes 1.5% over dealer invoice on all but hard to come by models. If the deal comes down to saving that customer an additional $100 or so, we will do it. I'm not dumb enough to lose a deal over $100.
In my opinion, internet sales are pretty easy, it's just tough to get responses sometimes.
Most BMW dealers are not low volume operations. We sold a 110 or so new cars last year which is fine for us. Land Rover's goal for our dealership was 140 or so which was dumb since at the end of the year we did not have 30 cars left on the lot to sell but anyway I digress.
The whole time thing wasting thing doesn't really matter here since we might go a couple of days without having a new customer come in. Its the low volume that is key we don't have high pressure in fact I would say it is no pressure. Granted we don't sell cars for 500 dollars over invoice and the term "Rebates" for the most part does not enter our vocabulary either.
Not everybody is out to get you. I just spent three hours with a customer today going over all of the numbers on his lease. This guy has been in four times previously and I still had no problem spending my whole afternoon with him to finalize everything. He was trying to find where we were screwing him over because he just knew we were some where. It just blew his mind that we were straight up with him and so we must be hiding something.
We walked him through the whole proces of how his lease was created showed him Land Rovers lease programs from our own binders and what these numbers mean. Honestly he was wasting his own time not mine because after he spent three hours trying to find what we were hiding he realized we weren't hiding anything. After it was all said and down and all the dust settled he just wanted to know if we could take off another 300 dollars off the purchase price of the car.
Well yeah of course we can there it changes your lease payment by like 8 dollars.
He was happy he met one of our dealer principals who came into see how things were going and they talked out side for another 30 minutes after we were done.
Hello Marty,
Thank you for contacting Beverly Hills BMW. I want to thank you for thinking of Beverly Hills BMW for your automotive needs. This is an automated response e-mail to confirm that your Our Website request has been received and your next step will be for me to check our current inventory for vehicle availability. I will be contacting you shortly with my results.
Many of our online customers have told us that they would like to bypass the traditional way of shopping for a car. This is why we designed our internet department to be a smart 'No Hassle' car buying experience. Our customers using the Internet are telling us they are enjoying their experience. The following are what a few of our customers have told us:
(INSERT - 2-3 short testimonials from reply e-mails... Get the customer's permission to only use firstname/city and comments)
If you need to get in touch with me immediately, please do not hesitate to call me directly at xxx xxx xxxx (deleted for posting)
Thanks Again,
Beverly Hills BMW
I understand. I probably wouldn't ever sell you a car.
You would probably pay too much elsewhere because of your stubborness to simply pick up the phone.
Not a problem.
Give me a break! I would smell every cute little trick you were about to pull.
"somewhat zen approach"
What a joke!
That makes sense for your product line. And as a result, I would probably not buy from a shop like that, being that I am highly price conscious, but I'm sure others would prefer it.
DrFill
I'll make a serious comment that I hope that you can take in stride -- you are acting very much like the stereotypical sales guy, which makes you very easy to manage, because it is straight out of the playbook. Your ego is easily used against you in these sorts of negotiations, and the screaming and shouting won't work to close against a knowledgable customer.
You might want to look at the Mazda sales guy's approach for one way to make sales online. Rather than demand phone calls and have things done your way, just give the customer an easy experience, close the deal and move on.
I don't need to look at anyone's approach and I don't "demand" anything. I sell a lot of cars and I have very high satisfaction ratings. A huge part of my business is to repeat and referral customers.
I must be doing at least a few things right.
Brit, I can't recall complaining about anything. I love cars and I love the car buying process because I can do it my way. My wife and I very much enjoyed buying our last two cars.
In fact, I can't think of anything I would change about the car-buying process.
At least with your "system" the dealership knows this guy is serious and can let you walk if the number is truly too low. Saves everybody time and while my dealership might be different in that we don't do the volume for that time wasting to matter all that much I know it is very different at high volume stores.
People complain about sales men/women lying but customers do it too. Just be straightforward and if the person you are dealing with is straightforward you will be able to tell. If he is not then you don't want to deal with them.
DrFill
I mean, lets face it when you go into Sears trying to buy the washing machine, there is no guidance out there what invoice price is.
My only hang up right now, and for the first time in my car buying experience is I don't know what car I want to buy. But I do know that if I was remotely near Mackabee, Isellhondas, and rover there is no doubt I would be contacting them.
So, if they want to give me a good deal and throw in an airplane ticket and pick me up at the airport- SOLD! *snicker*
And now for some strange reason, I am almost willing to go with socala4 next time he buys a car- I think it would just fascinating to watch his wheels spin. *wink*
Mackabee
Done that too!
:shades:
Mackabee
:shades:
Mackabee
I like the pilot, in that it is either ex/lx - then just "add" leather, or navi or ent. and you are done.
Perhaps I am too simple.
I'm enjoying your comments because of their presumptiousness, but you really have no idea what I do. There's no spinning and its actually very easy, because throughout most of the transaction, the dealer does all the dancing and I just follow his lead. He gets to feel like he's in charge, which is exactly what folks like ISellHondas want.
I am sure any good salesman want to "control" the negotiations and be convincing, but until you "sign" to me the buyer has the power.
No socala, you seem to know alot and most posters on this board do, but I would venture to say that the majority of the american car buyers purchase thier cars based on the monthly payment. *nodnod*
They don't care nor understand purchase price, interest rate, but they DO KNOW that at the end of the month I have $399 to pay for a car. And that IS prolly how they negotiate. I don't think the "4 square" method was some parlor trick invented by the dealers i think it evolved on how the majority of consumers negotiated car deals.
I think we learned from this post that an internet sales manager can not be all things to all people. The methods rover uses to pushes his $60,000 steel on wheels probably would not be successful at the cars going for 1/3 that price.
I think every "internet" salespersons <--note my pc" job is to know thier consumer and market segment and tailor thier salemanship to that market as best as you can. There is no one perfect model. I think each internet guy needs to understand who is consumer/market is and then go after him that way.
I think Dealerships should get more agressive on emails. Each sales guy should get an email as well as the service department. The internet guy should follow up with the people who didnt buy a car...with hey, you came in 3 weeks ago..still in the market...can we give a no hassle quote or even - at your last service your Honda had 120K miles on it, are you looking to get into a new vehicle...etc .etc..
There is one car that we have on the lot that has so much spin to win money, Land Rovers version of a manufacturer spiff, that I would gladly split it with you. Would probably pay for your plane ticket plus a little extra.
That is how American cars used to be. Every car had a bunch of options.
Toyota still does that to some degree, but Honda doesn't. Both companies seem to be prospering, so I guess they must know what they are doing. The Honda method sure makes it easier for customers.
However I do agree that sometimes if your just looking it's fun to "play" with car salesmen that want
"power & control" over the customer.
(It's not directed to you isellhondas )
However when I'm serious about buying a car it's sometimes a turn off to waste time playing "tag" between myself, salesmen, salesmanger, and I usually leave after 10 minutes of this game.
Rocky
Rocky
!!!!!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If I lived in that corner of the country, he might turn me from a Buick large car buyer into a Honda buyer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not a surprising comment from a guy who didn't haggle most of his car purchases.
My car buying experiences have actually been quite fun, because the game is enjoyable to play if you know how to play it. I've bought cars from guys like ISellHondas before, and they were exceptionally easy to deal with because they follow an established path and act predictably. Take this thread, for example...
Rocky
I haggle most of my car purchases, and more importantly research prices and shop around. But then again if you got the right contacts you don't need to haggle
Anyways you said you want to drag them through the mud, when you do that you also get muddy. People in sales play this "game" all the time and will beat you with experience. The question now becomes were they easy to deal with, or were you. I know people in auto sales, they love playing people like you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Judging from how it looks from my side of the table, I'd say that they don't like it very much at all. What appeared to be going so well for them at first turns out to be such a disappointment!
Since I've done business deals much larger than this in my professional life, a car purchase is small potatoes in comparison. And I end up with the car at my price, because everyone's money is green, even if it is a bit muddy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Pdana, that's what we found when we were looking at cars in 1994. I asked how much the car would cost and I could not get an answer.
I quickly learned to not ask the sales person for a price. Instead, we give them our offer. Life is much simpler that way.
Snake, from our experience, all sales people are easy to deal with if the buyer knows what he is doing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But I offer absolutely no confrontation. I begin the process as a "dream customer", and gradually move from that position to that of the low-cost buyer.
It's the old frog-in-boiling-water analogy applied to car sales. Rather than turn up the heat immediately, turn it up slowly so the guy is cooked before he knows it. Very easy way to do business, because the sales guy spins his wheels with his usual pitch, falsely believing things are going just swimmingly for him and he has everything under control...until it's too late...
Did you or did you not say you want to drag them through the mud? that sounds confrontational no matter how you present yourself. FWIW Salesmen are well aware of that tactic and it usually doesn't work.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Rocky
I had to go through 15 Honda dealers before I found one that realized that I was not an idiot and I was ready to deal. He stopped his games immediately and got down to his best price. Guess what? He got the sale.
Now that seems like the smart way to do internet business. Treat people (almost) equally with a reasonable price. A simple, straight-forward business model that gives internet customers what they want.