3rd row seats are the craze now with all the mid-price range truck SUV and crossover SUV alike.
Many people (including myself, an owner of a 2002 HL Limited V6 AWD) want to have a 3rd row seats just in case when the situation requires the availability of 3rd row seats.
The HL actually has a longer wheelbase than the Pilot, so this might explain why HL's 2nd row seats has better leg room than the Pilot.
3rd row seats can become very usable if Toyota designs a movable 2nd row seats on rails so that the 2nd row can be pushed back when the 3rd row isn't in use or push forward when the 3rd row is utilized. Honda Pilot lacks this feature.
HL increase in length and overall capacity for its next iteration, as well as get a little lower. This will be so it can compete better with Pilot for people-hauling functions and street ride, and consequently can increase some in price (ah, you are canny, Toyota!).
Then they will have two mid-size SUVs, one a car and one a truck, both capable of seating five in comfort, and they will probably add the third row seat to the HL.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Pilot has 37.4 inches legroom versus 36.4 for the Highlander in the 2nd row. True the Pilot has only a measly 30.2 in the 3rd seat, though. The overall length of 188 inches in the Pilot is where the 3rd row seat, however small, is made possible (at the expense of cargo space not 2nd row space). The Highlander is only 184.4 inches long.
You need to find a vehicle that meets your needs. I like the HL with the 5 seats and storage in back. If I needed more seats I would have looked for a different vehicle. I'm glad it doesn't have the 3rd row of seats, that I would never use, but have to pay for. There are many vehicles out there ... find the one that meets your needs. dpw
A new set of (4) Kumho I'ZEN's on my wife's '97 Camry really opened my eyes this week.
We got abaut 8" of snow here in CT this past Wednesday, and I took the Camry out for a test drive before all the roads were completely plowed. The Camry behaved almost as if it were a summer day - taking off, stopping, turning ,etc. I could spin the wheels a bit on take-off if I wanted to, but stopping & turning were fantastic!
Remembering how great I thought the Highlander was in the snow from last year's only snowfall, I decided to drive the same route that I just finished with the Camry.
Luckily, no one T-boned me as I sailed past the stop sign at the end of my street! I did lift my foot from the gas, and braked well in advance, but just antilocked for what seemed like 200 feet.
OK, I'll go slower now. Up the hill - no problem here - gets goin' good. Down the hill, & around the curve - oopsie(!) - starting to drift as I round the downhill bend.
Mine doesn't have the VSC, and this heavy, wet snow is like greased ball-bearings. I can get going ok, but it would be real nice to have some control.
My tires are the stock Dueler HT's. with about 10K on them. They seemed better when the car was new last Jan.
I'm not sure I want a set of dedicated winter tires for the HL, but is there something out there that anyone has experience with in snow & ice, that offer good CONTROL? Michelin Cross Terrains are mentioned a lot. Nokians. How about Pirelli Scorpions?
As it stand now, The Camry is by far superior all-around in the snow. Wasn't the case last year when the HL was new, and the Camry had half-worn Integrity's on.
It's really too bad the Edmund's does not let this truely be a useful tool for Highlander owners. Members can not even trade parts? At least let someone post their needs, then let the members email each other concerning details.
Is there another forum for the Highlander?
There are forums for the RAV4, not to mention all the great sites/forums for the Honda CRV, Pilot, MDX, etc... Are Honda owners just that much more enthusiastic about their vehicles?
Honda owners do tend to post more it seems (This discussion for example: Why is the Odyssey So Over Represented in these topics?). Try google, teoma or altavista if you want to find a trading post site (or eBay). Edmunds decided in the beginning ('~94) not to let the discussions fill up with for sale ads, dealer's blurbs, etc.
Try putting the HL in neutral and coast downhill, eliminates the engine braking to the front wheels and thus lessens the tendency for over-steering.
It is quite well known that ABS will extend the straight line stopping distance on unpacked snow and very slick ice.
I have "suggested" that coupling the ABS to VSC such that ABS doesn't come on-line unless directional stability is "threatened" might be a good idea but I'm not sure anyone listens.
ain't much engine braking going on at 15 mph with an automatic tranny! This is a tire issue.
Point is - the Camry with top-rated winter tires outshone the HL with mediocre tires. The ABS on the camry didn't come into play because the tires gripped.
I now see how much good tires can make a difference - be it FWD, or AWD. And as much as I thought I liked the Bridgestone Dueler HT's in the dry or the rain, with less than 10K miles on them they give zero confidence in the snow.
is primarily a function of how tightly the brake pads "grip" the rotors, and secondarily the weight/inertia of the vehicle against the level of "braking" traction the tires have with the roadbed. If I brake REALLY hard then ABS will kick in almost as quickly on dry roadbed as on ice.
I am in the process of purchasing a Highlander. I live in Southern California, and rarely drive in rain, never drive in snow, and never ever go off roading. Would the all wheel drive offer any advantages to handling on dry pavement? I do like sharp turns, and would like to know if AWD would improve handling on dry pavement.
wwest, as is usual, you're off again. If your tires have better traction, they will grip better rather than slipping. The result of loss of traction is wheel slippage. That is why summer and winter tires are designed differently and wet and dry weather tires are designed differently. The best type of tire for maximum traction for dry pavement are slicks. These have NO tread at all, so the contact patch is greatest. The problem with these on any other type of wet or more slippery surface is that they will trap water or other material between the tires and the pavement and therefore lose traction. That is why the great majority of road tires have some sort of tread patern on them to direct water and other materials away from the contact patches. Wet weather tires are more specifically designed to direct water away from the contact patch rather than all materials like most "all season" tires.
Snow tires are designed to remain more flexible in colder temperatures, and have more contact surfaces and for the contact surfaces themselves, have a more "abrasive" for lack of a better term on more slippery surfaces at lower temperatures. The drawback to this type of design on other surfaces is that the deeper tread pattern and softer compound will have less contact patch and be more pliable on hot, dry surfaces, so they don't work as well in those conditions.
If one tire worked best for all situations, why don't rally car racers, funnycar drag racers, Indy cars, and Daytona cars all use the same type of tire with the same tread pattern? Not to mention the fact that each of these different sports use different tires on the same vehicles within the same race frequently for changing track conditions.
Sorry for the long post, but wanted to explain a bit more...
In MOST conditions, the AWD will probably not give you much added benefit compared to FWD. However, there may be times that it would be beneficial. These would be when there is some reduced traction such as heavy rain or the like. The engine isn't powerful enough in stock form to worry about smoking the tires when you're leaving a stoplight, so that shouldn't be a big issue. The drawback of the added initial price and the lower gas milage would probably dictate that the AWD is not necessarily a needed option, however, this like all decisions is a personal choice. Hope this helps.
My post was intended to address ABS itself, not any particular tire type traction.
Most brake systems have the ability to LOCK the rotors at lower speeds even on high traction dry roadbeds, say below 30MPH.
Modern ABS systems PREDICT that the rotor is approaching a LOCKING condition and release the brake fluid pressure to that particular wheel momentarily.
Anti-lock brake systems are NOT designed to stop you quicker, but to allow you to maintain directional control/stability under severe braking.
My point was that if you have tires that GRIP the "surface" during braking the ABS will and can still do it job.
And yes, you are much more likely to feel ABS activity the slippery the surface is, or the lower the tire to surface traction coefficient is.
If you like to corner hard I wouldn't recommend an SUV for you (or a pickup truck). With their higher center of gravity they are not as stable on sharp turns as a car. I'd recommend a sedan as it would suit your driving style better. You don't want to add to the rollover statistics...
Thanks - I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say about tires. Yet I still would like to find the one that does it all. Would be nice, wouldn't it? I just look at the Highlander as a one-set-of-wheels type vehicle (just my opinion).
Looking at the Michelin Cross Terrain (highway/all-season), for instance, the tread compound has the silica, and the wear index is 700(!).
This tire gets high marks on the survey at the Tire Rack site. Supposedly ride is excellent, dry & wet traction are excellent, handling also. Snow traction is supposed to be good.
Too good to be true for an all-season SUV tire? Anybody runnin' a set o' these? Tried 'em in snow?
The ones that I've been hearing about and doing some research that looks impressive so far are Nokian WR's. They're promoted as the first truly 4 season tires. Most "all season" tires are really mostly for dry and some wet traction. For traction on Snow or ice, they're pretty inadequate for the most part. They're fine if you don't live somewhere where there isn't a great number of days that you're going to be driving on snow and ice, but otherwise, so far the best alternative has been to have a winter set of tires and switch to summers when the snow goes away.
Supposedly these new Nokians are designed for snow and ice in mind but have the durability for summer use as well. I have used Nokian's for winter tires for a couple of years now, but haven't personally used the WR's yet. The snow's I've used have been extraordinary, however. I know that the WR's are available for trucks and SUV's but not sure about the HL in particular. My general manager uses them on his Mercedes ML and has been complimentary so far. (We're in Buffalo and more specifically in the southern area which is the snowbelt here)
Honestly, my thought is that for the extra expense, it's worth it to have tires designed for summer use and then change them for winter specific tires so that you are using tires designed for the weather you're dealing with at the time.
It's sort of like the discussion about SUV's in that do you want the convenience of something that does most things adequately, or do you want something that does a specific thing very well.
I agree with dougweaver in his post dated Nov 29, 2002 (post #6909, at least at the time he posted it, titled "5 Seats in HL by dougweaver")about liking the HL with the 5 seats and the storage. I too would have looked for a different vehicle if I needed more seating. One vehicle can't be all things to all people, but in my case the current HL is as close to perfect for me as I could get, including its size.
So, my "vote" is for the size and make up of the HL to remain as is! Just my humble opinion, though.
My 01 AWD(??) RX300 is shod with 17X8 wheels, 1.2" spacers all around and 235/65/R17 Michelin Cross Terrains. Frankly my criteria for choosing these particular tires had more to do with their comfortable and quiet ride than anything else.
Had there been a summer tire, say Bridgestone Turanzas, available in this size that would have been my first choice.
You can class me as an ultra conservative wintertime driver. On my recent trip from Seattle to Lewistown Mt and return I was very careful to have the cruise OFF when the OAT was below 37F.
Outward bound we enountered no snow or ice. On the return we had heavy packed snow southbound on I15 climbing the last "pass" into Helena. Same over MacDonald pass. I had two sets of snowchains along just in case but the Michelins seemed to always have enough traction even on the slippery stuff, uphill and down.
That of course was with a very "gentle" throttle touch, and lots of planning for distance for slowing and/or stopping, ALWAYS.
My theory is that even in wintertime, at least driving predominantly here in the great Pacific Northwest, Most of the time, 95%(99%-??), the roads or either dry or wet (okay, EXTREMELY wet).
Summer tires will ALWAYS give better roadbed traction that 95% of the time, and I find it very easy to quickly slap on a set of snowchains for those exceptionally rare times more traction is needed.
toyotaken - Those Nokians have my interest - gotta find out more on those.
Thanks wwest, nippononly. This is the info I'm looking for.
I KNOW it's a trade-off. But th HL came with all-seasons. I'm just looking for the best ones. The fact that the Cross Terrains ride & handle well, in addition to decent control in the kind of snow that we normally get here (CT), also sparks my interest.
OK, after today, I can definately say that I am once again VERY familiar with the differences in drivability of FWD vs. AWD models of different Toyotas. Here in Buffalo, we've had close to 3 feet of snow since yesterday afternoon. I've been outside with everyone moving all of the cars so that we can plow.
So lets get into this. Unequivicably, the AWD models of vehicles that come in both configurations make a HUGE difference in not getting stuck. I've moved both models of RAV4's, Matrix's, Highlanders, and used both 2wd and 4wd on trucks and Sequoia's just to get the feel of them all once again.
The added ground clearance of the trucks and truck-based SUV's (Land cruiser, sequoia, 4runner) helped greatly in the amount of snow we're dealing with here. The snow is over the bumpers of even these, however and in 2wd, all I can do is spin the wheels and maybe rock the vehicle, but don't want to do that and burn out the tires so...switched into 4wd. In 4wd even w/o the center differential locked in the sequoia, L/C, and 4Runner, they all plowed through 3 feet of packed snow for over 80 feet to get to a plowed area for me to park until we moved them again. There was some hunting VERY occasionally w/o the differential locked, but not enough to lose momentum.
On the AWD models of vehicles that are car-based, (highlander, RAV4, Matrix) the front-wheel drive models weren't able to be moved unless we shoveled each and every one to the point that there was less than 1 foot of snow in front of them. Otherwise, the bumpers in the snow stopped the vehicle in it's tracks and we had to back it up to get a running start to get the bumper through and the front tires over and through the packed snow underneath.
The AWD models, however, fared much better. The only model that couldn't get through the full 3 feet was the matrix and I think alot of that had to do with ground clearance in the front. One RAV4 that I was moving did a bit too much hunting with the V/C gradually transfering power but by that time, the wheels were digging in too deep. Considering that that was only one of probably 20 I moved, that's not too bad. The Highlanders with AWD didn't even slow down unless it was high, packed snow in front of them from the plow moving snow. And wwest, btw, when the tires spun on the Highlander, RAV4, and Matrix and the vehicle was stymied for a bit, one front and one rear wheel spun. I would surmise, therefore, that the AWD system was working pretty efficiently... even when one wheel was spinning, enough power was being sent to the other set of wheels to spin another tire.
Hope this helps. And I hope noone else has to deal with this much snow overnight. Happy holidays all if I don't get to say it again.
Does anyone know where can I register a complaint with Toyota? I checked Toyota USA website but it does not have any mail/e-mail instructions. I want to complain about Highlander paint. I have 2001, Indigo Blue, and front and sides have a lot of chipped paint. Any info would be appreciated.
Toyotaken, in your post #6932, with that much snow, do you think tire type would matter or is clearance the critical issue? Fortunately, in the N.KY./Cincinnati area, we don't get that much snow at one time, but we do get drifting and need to deal with lots of hills.
Well, I drove my corolla this morning with Nokian tires on it. After having driven one winter with the OEM Bridgestone all-season tires, I can say that the difference is night and day. That does not mean, however that they defeat the laws of physics. I still drive carefully when it's nasty out (partly because of all of the idiots who "forgot" how to drive in the snow). What the better tires do give me is better ability to stop and accelerate without spinning the tires too badly or the ABS kicking in every time I stop. Also directional stability is much improved. When I turn the wheel, it turns instead of trying to plow straight(understeering). I did, however, still shovel behind the car in the driveway this morning before backing it out to clean it off. And I shoveled the end of the driveway where the streetplows had dumped snow (after the guy we have plow our driveway got done of course).
For the majority of the vehicles we had to move in the lot today, the clearance was a bigger issue than traction from the tires. However, once they got moving, the better tires would have made a difference in having better control while moving them.
Does that make sense? I hope so, and I hope it helps.
As I have said many times before, as long as all four tires have roughly equal traction, high or low, the open diff'l will function quite satisfactorily and route equal torque to all four wheels/tires.
The VC is needed only if, say, the front tires on on a very slippery surface have litte or no traction, but the rears do. In that case the disparate spin rate of the front vs the rear brings the VC into play and increases the coupling to the tires with more traction.
Traction/momentum.
I can't tell you how many times over the years when a 2WD vehicle, FWD or RWD, could not get up and going initially absent a simple "push". Once underway momentum suplants the need for traction and you're on your way.
A major shortcoming of my new Highlander is its lack of heated outside mirrors. They seem to attract snow and ice. I have them in my other car and never realized how useful they were.
Anyone know if there is an aftermarket solution for this problem?
(Ottawa, Canada, -10 C and that's up from earlier in the day)
If there are any dealers in the audience, I'd be curious to know what the ratio is of 4-cylinder to V6 Highlanders being sold in the U.S. Any difference world-wide? Thanks!
Sorry to hear that Canada doesn't offer heated outside mirrors. In the US - they come STD on the LTD package. Strange that they chose not to offer them in Canada - which has a much colder climate.
The glass break sensor is located on the front side of the lower dash, lower instrument panel, knee bolster panel, or whatever you want to call the piece of plastic in the area where the driver's right knee would hit. The glass break sensor should be visible behind or though the tiny vertical air slots in the plastic.
Was just curious as I didn't notice any response. I bet the vibes are all in the name of better gas mileage and emissions. Turning on electrical loads like the lights and defroster seem to help smooth things out a little, but its most likely just the result of forcing the RPMs higher. Have your idle speed and electrical system checked (battery condition, connections, and charging). I bet programming the vehicle to idle faster would help the problem (if allowable), but that would raise other issues. Also, it might be worth a try to experiment a little with different types of fuel.
...more like electrical system sadness. File "no standard heated mirrors in Canada" along with Toyota's other electrical shortcomings like no audible low fuel warning, no timed audible warning for the turn signals, no automatic locks, no continuously powered power port, no lights without key in ignition, no passive arming for the alarm, no motion sensor for the alarm, etc.
no audible low fuel warning, - Maybe Toyota owners are a bit more attentive and don't like buzzers and horns and noises going off all over the place? There is a low fuel level warning light...
no timed audible warning for the turn signals- There is an audible "click" with the turn signals...
no automatic locks - I and many others I know do not like doors locking when the driver or someone else didn't specifically lock them. Is it too much trouble to push the little button on the door if you want them locked?
no continuously powered power port - Too many people keeping things plugged in and killing batteries, makes sense to me...
no lights without key in ignition - which lights? Dome can be turned on and so can the headlights if you want to...
no passive arming for the alarm - With the transponder keys, they are always passively armed. With the dealer installed alarm, you can choose to have it passively arm...
no motion sensor for the alarm - no factory alarm has a motion sensor that I know of and who in their right mind wants an alarm going off every time someone walks by the car? It's bad enough when they go off when a cat jumps on the car. On top of that next time you're in a parking lot, watch to see how many people take the time out to look at a car that the alarm is going off on. Not too many...
Had the opportunity to take my HL through 6 in. of snow this morning here in Northern VA. Handled just fine - with proper driving precautions, of course.
I have to admit, my new tires (255/65-16 Pirelli Scorpions) are a much better improvement over the stock Bridgestones. No sliding at all.
I looked in my owner's manual and did not see anything about a "glass breakage sensor". How does it work and what is its purpose. Is it somehow connected to the anti-theft system.
This morning we had @6 inches of snow on the hills of Ky./Cincinnati. This was my first snow drive with our new HL 4WD and I was confident in its handling. No problems at all, but the VSC did kick in a couple of times. Overall, it validated my decision to purchase this vehicle. If you simply drive prudently, it seems to get the job done well. Now, if we could just do something with some of the other drivers on the road..............
Is a $24 option for the non-limited. For that little money, why not just make it all standard? I can understand why they won't put Al wheel or VSC as standard to lower the "entry price", but Toyota probably end up spending more money than $24 per vehicle for making it optional.
Comments
Many people (including myself, an owner of a 2002 HL Limited V6 AWD) want to have a 3rd row seats just in case when the situation requires the availability of 3rd row seats.
The HL actually has a longer wheelbase than the Pilot, so this might explain why HL's 2nd row seats has better leg room than the Pilot.
3rd row seats can become very usable if Toyota designs a movable 2nd row seats on rails so that the 2nd row can be pushed back when the 3rd row isn't in use or push forward when the 3rd row is utilized. Honda Pilot lacks this feature.
Then they will have two mid-size SUVs, one a car and one a truck, both capable of seating five in comfort, and they will probably add the third row seat to the HL.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We got abaut 8" of snow here in CT this past Wednesday, and I took the Camry out for a test drive before all the roads were completely plowed. The Camry behaved almost as if it were a summer day - taking off, stopping, turning ,etc. I could spin the wheels a bit on take-off if I wanted to, but stopping & turning were fantastic!
Remembering how great I thought the Highlander was in the snow from last year's only snowfall, I decided to drive the same route that I just finished with the Camry.
Luckily, no one T-boned me as I sailed past the stop sign at the end of my street! I did lift my foot from the gas, and braked well in advance, but just antilocked for what seemed like 200 feet.
OK, I'll go slower now. Up the hill - no problem here - gets goin' good. Down the hill, & around the curve - oopsie(!) - starting to drift as I round the downhill bend.
Mine doesn't have the VSC, and this heavy, wet snow is like greased ball-bearings. I can get going ok, but it would be real nice to have some control.
My tires are the stock Dueler HT's. with about 10K on them. They seemed better when the car was new last Jan.
I'm not sure I want a set of dedicated winter tires for the HL, but is there something out there that anyone has experience with in snow & ice, that offer good CONTROL? Michelin Cross Terrains are mentioned a lot. Nokians. How about Pirelli Scorpions?
As it stand now, The Camry is by far superior all-around in the snow. Wasn't the case last year when the HL was new, and the Camry had half-worn Integrity's on.
Is there another forum for the Highlander?
There are forums for the RAV4, not to mention all the great sites/forums for the Honda CRV, Pilot, MDX, etc... Are Honda owners just that much more enthusiastic about their vehicles?
Steve, Host
It is quite well known that ABS will extend the straight line stopping distance on unpacked snow and very slick ice.
I have "suggested" that coupling the ABS to VSC such that ABS doesn't come on-line unless directional stability is "threatened" might be a good idea but I'm not sure anyone listens.
Point is - the Camry with top-rated winter tires outshone the HL with mediocre tires. The ABS on the camry didn't come into play because the tires gripped.
I now see how much good tires can make a difference - be it FWD, or AWD. And as much as I thought I liked the Bridgestone Dueler HT's in the dry or the rain, with less than 10K miles on them they give zero confidence in the snow.
15MPH engine braking.
Doesn't take much at all on a slippery slope.
Then I wonder what that funny sound, and brake pedal vibration is when I (purposely) find an ice patch, and slam on the brakes!
Lack of grip.
Please - I'm sorry, but I'm just asking about which tires offer decent control in snowy/slippery conditions over the stock Duelers.
Don't wanna get into a peein' match about ABS, or VSC, or AWD, anything else.
Snow tires are designed to remain more flexible in colder temperatures, and have more contact surfaces and for the contact surfaces themselves, have a more "abrasive" for lack of a better term on more slippery surfaces at lower temperatures. The drawback to this type of design on other surfaces is that the deeper tread pattern and softer compound will have less contact patch and be more pliable on hot, dry surfaces, so they don't work as well in those conditions.
If one tire worked best for all situations, why don't rally car racers, funnycar drag racers, Indy cars, and Daytona cars all use the same type of tire with the same tread pattern? Not to mention the fact that each of these different sports use different tires on the same vehicles within the same race frequently for changing track conditions.
Sorry for the long post, but wanted to explain a bit more...
The drawback of the added initial price and the lower gas milage would probably dictate that the AWD is not necessarily a needed option, however, this like all decisions is a personal choice. Hope this helps.
Most brake systems have the ability to LOCK the rotors at lower speeds even on high traction dry roadbeds, say below 30MPH.
Modern ABS systems PREDICT that the rotor is approaching a LOCKING condition and release the brake fluid pressure to that particular wheel momentarily.
Anti-lock brake systems are NOT designed to stop you quicker, but to allow you to maintain directional control/stability under severe braking.
My point was that if you have tires that GRIP the "surface" during braking the ABS will and can still do it job.
And yes, you are much more likely to feel ABS activity the slippery the surface is, or the lower the tire to surface traction coefficient is.
Looking at the Michelin Cross Terrain (highway/all-season), for instance, the tread compound has the silica, and the wear index is 700(!).
This tire gets high marks on the survey at the Tire Rack site. Supposedly ride is excellent, dry & wet traction are excellent, handling also. Snow traction is supposed to be good.
Too good to be true for an all-season SUV tire? Anybody runnin' a set o' these? Tried 'em in snow?
Supposedly these new Nokians are designed for snow and ice in mind but have the durability for summer use as well. I have used Nokian's for winter tires for a couple of years now, but haven't personally used the WR's yet. The snow's I've used have been extraordinary, however. I know that the WR's are available for trucks and SUV's but not sure about the HL in particular. My general manager uses them on his Mercedes ML and has been complimentary so far. (We're in Buffalo and more specifically in the southern area which is the snowbelt here)
Honestly, my thought is that for the extra expense, it's worth it to have tires designed for summer use and then change them for winter specific tires so that you are using tires designed for the weather you're dealing with at the time.
It's sort of like the discussion about SUV's in that do you want the convenience of something that does most things adequately, or do you want something that does a specific thing very well.
So, my "vote" is for the size and make up of the HL to remain as is! Just my humble opinion, though.
Had there been a summer tire, say Bridgestone Turanzas, available in this size that would have been my first choice.
You can class me as an ultra conservative wintertime driver. On my recent trip from Seattle to Lewistown Mt and return I was very careful to have the cruise OFF when the OAT was below 37F.
Outward bound we enountered no snow or ice. On the return we had heavy packed snow southbound on I15 climbing the last "pass" into Helena. Same over MacDonald pass. I had two sets of snowchains along just in case but the Michelins seemed to always have enough traction even on the slippery stuff, uphill and down.
That of course was with a very "gentle" throttle touch, and lots of planning for distance for slowing and/or stopping, ALWAYS.
My theory is that even in wintertime, at least driving predominantly here in the great Pacific Northwest, Most of the time, 95%(99%-??), the roads or either dry or wet (okay, EXTREMELY wet).
Summer tires will ALWAYS give better roadbed traction that 95% of the time, and I find it very easy to quickly slap on a set of snowchains for those exceptionally rare times more traction is needed.
I have not yet had a chance to try them in snow - when WILL it snow in Northern Cal? I am getting impatient waiting to go skiing!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Thanks wwest, nippononly. This is the info I'm looking for.
I KNOW it's a trade-off. But th HL came with all-seasons. I'm just looking for the best ones. The fact that the Cross Terrains ride & handle well, in addition to decent control in the kind of snow that we normally get here (CT), also sparks my interest.
Thanks again. This is a great board!
Glen
So lets get into this. Unequivicably, the AWD models of vehicles that come in both configurations make a HUGE difference in not getting stuck. I've moved both models of RAV4's, Matrix's, Highlanders, and used both 2wd and 4wd on trucks and Sequoia's just to get the feel of them all once again.
The added ground clearance of the trucks and truck-based SUV's (Land cruiser, sequoia, 4runner) helped greatly in the amount of snow we're dealing with here. The snow is over the bumpers of even these, however and in 2wd, all I can do is spin the wheels and maybe rock the vehicle, but don't want to do that and burn out the tires so...switched into 4wd. In 4wd even w/o the center differential locked in the sequoia, L/C, and 4Runner, they all plowed through 3 feet of packed snow for over 80 feet to get to a plowed area for me to park until we moved them again. There was some hunting VERY occasionally w/o the differential locked, but not enough to lose momentum.
On the AWD models of vehicles that are car-based, (highlander, RAV4, Matrix) the front-wheel drive models weren't able to be moved unless we shoveled each and every one to the point that there was less than 1 foot of snow in front of them. Otherwise, the bumpers in the snow stopped the vehicle in it's tracks and we had to back it up to get a running start to get the bumper through and the front tires over and through the packed snow underneath.
The AWD models, however, fared much better. The only model that couldn't get through the full 3 feet was the matrix and I think alot of that had to do with ground clearance in the front. One RAV4 that I was moving did a bit too much hunting with the V/C gradually transfering power but by that time, the wheels were digging in too deep. Considering that that was only one of probably 20 I moved, that's not too bad. The Highlanders with AWD didn't even slow down unless it was high, packed snow in front of them from the plow moving snow. And wwest, btw, when the tires spun on the Highlander, RAV4, and Matrix and the vehicle was stymied for a bit, one front and one rear wheel spun. I would surmise, therefore, that the AWD system was working pretty efficiently... even when one wheel was spinning, enough power was being sent to the other set of wheels to spin another tire.
Hope this helps. And I hope noone else has to deal with this much snow overnight. Happy holidays all if I don't get to say it again.
For the majority of the vehicles we had to move in the lot today, the clearance was a bigger issue than traction from the tires. However, once they got moving, the better tires would have made a difference in having better control while moving them.
Does that make sense? I hope so, and I hope it helps.
As I have said many times before, as long as all four tires have roughly equal traction, high or low, the open diff'l will function quite satisfactorily and route equal torque to all four wheels/tires.
The VC is needed only if, say, the front tires on on a very slippery surface have litte or no traction, but the rears do. In that case the disparate spin rate of the front vs the rear brings the VC into play and increases the coupling to the tires with more traction.
Traction/momentum.
I can't tell you how many times over the years when a 2WD vehicle, FWD or RWD, could not get up and going initially absent a simple "push". Once underway momentum suplants the need for traction and you're on your way.
I want to check and see if the factory installed this option
thanks
Anyone know if there is an aftermarket solution for this problem?
(Ottawa, Canada, -10 C and that's up from earlier in the day)
You might try Aftermarkets & Accessories
tidester, host
9:1 according to Car and Driver.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/previews/2001/February/200102_preview_2002_highlander.xml
The glass break sensor is located on the front side of the lower dash, lower instrument panel, knee bolster panel, or whatever you want to call the piece of plastic in the area where the driver's right knee would hit. The glass break sensor should be visible behind or though the tiny vertical air slots in the plastic.
To resolve the problem, first visit your local dealer and have them access the issue.
no timed audible warning for the turn signals- There is an audible "click" with the turn signals...
no automatic locks - I and many others I know do not like doors locking when the driver or someone else didn't specifically lock them. Is it too much trouble to push the little button on the door if you want them locked?
no continuously powered power port - Too many people keeping things plugged in and killing batteries, makes sense to me...
no lights without key in ignition - which lights? Dome can be turned on and so can the headlights if you want to...
no passive arming for the alarm - With the transponder keys, they are always passively armed. With the dealer installed alarm, you can choose to have it passively arm...
no motion sensor for the alarm - no factory alarm has a motion sensor that I know of and who in their right mind wants an alarm going off every time someone walks by the car? It's bad enough when they go off when a cat jumps on the car. On top of that next time you're in a parking lot, watch to see how many people take the time out to look at a car that the alarm is going off on. Not too many...
I have to admit, my new tires (255/65-16 Pirelli Scorpions) are a much better improvement over the stock Bridgestones. No sliding at all.