I suggest you read the manual first. I used to own a Chrysler Town & Country AWD. The manual clearly says do not use chains on AWD model. AWD is not a 4WD so there is different when considering using chains for snow driving. I found out that the best you can do with a AWD is to get a set of SNOW Tires.
Well, first of all freshly fallen snow high in the mountains, cold, dry, etc, is rarely slippery enough to require snowchains, at least for the more carefull, throttle conservative, drivers.
After a few days of packing, thawing, and then refreezing during the cold nights, THEN you will need snowchains.
Chrysler AWD....
Well, let's see, I have owned a 98, 99, and a 00, Chrysler AWD T&C. My daughter now has the 00 and used snowchains on it to take the kids skiing last winter.
Have to check the manual again but I seem to remember that snowchain should never be used on the front ONLY due to the rear over-running clutch mechanism. Rear only or rear and front are okay.
Hmmmm... There were cars slipping all over the place (Ford Explorer, Ford Excursion) and a few had even gone over the edge. The CHP or Caltrans (whoever makes the call) decided it was slippery enough to require chains for most cars.
We were very careful, but even we did a few unintentional donuts (as well as a few intentional ones).
It looks a little big and bulky to be a new HL. More like a Forerunner with Lexus windows. Since it's for a different country (Asia perhaps, based on the people in the picture), we may never see that design here, no matter what it is.
I hope it's not a new HL, since I like the fact that the current HL isn't bulky and top-heavy.
Please note that I did say "careful, throttle conservative drivers".
There are those of us with many years of experience that know how to go in snow, and there are those that VSC/Trac accessories are a "MUST HAVE".
Personally I really don't like the Trac aspect of quickly dethrottling the engine as a result of wheelspin, but then I have enough experience and sense to know to immediately lift the throttle the instant a wheel spins.
Regretably the CHP, OSP, WSP, etc, must "punish" all of us for the "sins" of a few "boy-racers".
I guess for the future we will all be "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator.
I am thinking about trading in my '02 Legacy GT and getting a Highlander. I love the Legacy, but I would like to have something that I can haul stuff in. Plus, I am going to be commuting about 120 miles round-trip twice per week, and the Subaru gets dismal highway mileage, for the size of the car.
I am used to the four cyl in the Legacy, which is fairly peppy...it doesn't snap your neck, but it does ok. AWD does zap some of the power. But the best I can do is about 25mpg on the highway.
I am trying to decide on the 4cyl or the V6 Highlander. Can anyone offer any input on real-life experiences with both? If the V6 is much better with only a slight MPG penalty...I would go with it. If there really isn't much difference...I would probably go with the four. I did drive the 4 cyl Camry in '02...which I thought was fine. How does the Highlander compare to that?
Best you can probably do on the V6, based on my experience, is 23mpg on the highway. The EPA rating is 24. I think the EPA rating for the 4 is 27.
The HL is about 500# heavier than the Camry so that would take its toll on acceleration. Many people are happy with the 4 but I know I wouldn't be. If you are going to tow, get the 6.
I had an Outback and traded for the Highlander. In terms of gas mileage, you really won't see any gains. In terms of comfort, the HL wins hands down - quieter, roomier.
You might want to wait until the HL hybrid comes out. However, the difference in gas mileage would be higher around town/city (since it uses the electric motor more), than on the highway.
From what I've read, the 4-cyl is fine if you don't live in hilly country, especially since it was beefed up in 2004.
There is no 4WD or 3rd row seat for Canadian Highlander 4 cyl models... We only have 1 trim of the 4 cyc Hope toyota will make more option on next year model in canada!
Don't count on it. There isn't enough demand for many different trim models in Canada. It wouldn't be cost effective. There are more people living in New York City and surrounding areas than there are in all of Canada. Logistically it wouldn't make sense.
My 2003 V6 FWD Highlander averages 20.3 mpg both city and interstate. On several trips to Kentucky over the eastern mountain route 23, I averaged 24.3 mph for the entire trip using Rt 23 I81 and I77.
AM seriously debating whether to get Highlander, Sienna, Pilot or Odyessey. Looked at the Ford Freestyle and here are some comments.
1. Plastic dash looks cheap (personal opinion). 2. Second row seats do NOT slide back and forth - like it or leave it you can't make room for the back or yourself. 3. CVT transmission is an unknown. Do you relaly want to be the first on the block for this? Vased upon the Volvo that Ford owns but I am leary. 4. Only 203 HP. Ford says transmission will compensate. Reviews say it makes vehicle rev high.
I want a quality vehicle which is either Toyota or Honda (leaning toward Toyota after reading problems with Ody).
Realize this is a subjective question but for most of you here, it the HL big enough?
A little background. Got a Plymouth Voyager when they came out in 84. Kept it until we got an Astro new in 91. Kept that until this summer when we used it move and then sold it (gave it away for $200) to get 16 year old son a scoot around and get to school car.
Since then it has been an endless list of things that won't fit inside trunk of Impala. Realize we need something to do occasional hauling. Examples. daybed in box for daughter. Mattress for daybed. New Christmas tree. Always something new.
Know HL is not as big as Pilot but am worried about quality at Honda. 05 Ody is having teething problems. HL has been out and most problems don't seem that major (except hesitation issue). Pilot is too big and don't really need AWD. Don't particularly want a minivan although Ody is suppose to be similar to sports car feel while Sienna is soft and luxurious. Would prefer Ody on that point.
2 kids are in college an junior in HS. Mainly just me and the wife and two new beagle pups. Wife likes the third seat "just in case" (Rolls eyes)
Know HL isn't as wide or long as Pilot but would stuff like this fit?
"Realize this is a subjective question but for most of you here, it the HL big enough?"
An impossible question to answer. It may be for 90% of what you haul but but do you do about the toher 10%? Same thing for the Pilot. There's always going to be something too big.
My suggestion would be take a tape measure and measure the rear opening of each then decide. With 7" additional width, the Pilot is going to have a real advantage but my experience is it's the height, not width, that's usually the problem.
This past August I purchased an '04 V6 Limited HL which came equipped with VSC-TRAC-ABS. I live in the northeast and have been waiting for the first significant snowfall to test out how these systems work. By test, I meant to take the car to an unplowed parking lot and get the feel of how they work at low speeds (I always check my brakes and traction during the first snowfall to remind myself of what it feels like to go into a skid and recover).
The other night we had snowshowers that quickly changed over to freezing rain. As I was slowing down for a light on a highway overpass, I felt the car start to skid as I started braking at about 10 mph. The ABS started immediately, but I could tell I was still going to plow into the car ahead of me (about 3 car lengths). I started to steer gently to the right and the VSC kicked in, alternating the ABS to the wheels. It was like some hand from above just moved the car over into the adjacent lane and straightened it out as I nudged the wheel back to the left to center it. Wow! I had very little pressure on the brakes and ended up stopping at the light, having passed 3 cars in the lane I previously occupied.
My passenger knew the ABS had worked, but just thought I had done a great job steering through the skid. It my old car I would have ended up in the other guys trunk! Once my heart slowed down, I realized what had happened and what a great system this is. I hope that I don't have to test it in quite this fashion again, but will still take the time for a test 'spin' in that local parking lot when the appropriate time arrives.
We are about to buy our first family car (there are only three of us at the moment; me, wife, and 18-month old). We're stuck trying to choose between the CR-V and the Highlander.
My wife preferred the "cuteness" of the CR-V, but I have some concerns about its relatively small cargo area when vacationing. She test drove the Highlander and pronounced it too large for her taste.
Note that she would never consider a midsize sedan (like the Camry) to be too large. But when I look at the specs for the Camry vs the Highlander, I am surprised to see that the Highlander is actually 4.6 inches *shorter* in length than the Camry, while only 1.2 inches wider. Of course, the Highlander is much higher than the Camry.
I know that this will seem like a really obtuse question, but what is it about the Highlander that makes it "feel" so much larger than a sedan, or than the CR-V? The Highlander is only 2.8 inches longer and 1.7 inches wider than the CR-V, yet it offers more cargo room. If we were to buy the Highlander (rather than the CR-V), does anyone think that the Highlander would truly feel much bigger to us than the CR-V?
I know that this is all very subjective, but we're grasping at straws here...
So far the biggest things I've put in/on the HL are baseboard (about 8 ft. long) w/passenger seat folded down, a table for 6-8 w/middle and rear seats folded down, and a Christmas tree (on top of the car).
I think that the minivans (with all the seats out) can hold more than the HL or Pilot, though (too lazy to verify this right now).
Having owned a troublesome 03 Accord, I can relate to your qualms about the brand (though most owners are pretty happy with theirs).
If you don't regularly cart a lot of people or stuff, a minivan might seem like a giant echo chamber sometimes. They feel larger inside than my HL.
SDE, I currently own a 04' HL and still own a first generation (2000) CR-V. The interior "feel" of the HL is much more than the CR-V and I base it on the ride height and overall body design. I think that if you dive both, you'll see what I mean. I also think it's a "more secure feeling" in the HL. Good luck in your decision!
Highlander Hybrid is scheduled for April, '05. 2006 Highlander is scheduled for September '05. Difficult to determine whether the 2006 HL will be a carryover or a new design since we know the 2006 RAV4 is completely new and that car won't arrive until December - February depending on trim.
I'm not sure VSC would kick in at that low a speed. The fact that ABS was working would allow you to steer and change lanes. VSC detects oversteer or understeer conditions and I don't think oversteer or understeer occur at 10 mph.
Stability control compares the steering input and the yaw sensor to determine if the car is going where the driver wants it to go. The original poster said he started to "steer gently" and VSC kicked in. With a gentle steering input at 10 mph, there wouldn't be any difference between what the yaw sensor sensed and what the steering angle sensor sensed. VSC may work at low speeds but it would require a large, quick steering input to kick in.
FWIW, I drove an MB E-class sedan a few years ago on a wet test track with stability control turned off and then turned on, in both cases going about 40 mph. It worked great at that speed.
And the poster's vehicle slid pass 3 cars while braking to a stop....
"wouldn't be any difference.."
Clearly on a very slippery surface. So even a slight, gentle, stearing angle might not quickly change the "direction" of the vehicle such that the yaw sensor "agrees".
In this case the most likely thing the VSC did was increase the ABS brake release time period at the front to get more "roll" and thereby return a higher level of lateral, stearing control. One must assume that under-stearing was the order of the day so the VSC may have increased the braking at the rear.
"Pedestrian accident: A 23-year-old Warren woman was hit by a car as she jaywalked across Main Street in downtown Rochester around 10:30PM Nov.24. The driver of the car, a 26-year-old Macomb woman, said she has just turned on her defroster and it fogged her windshield so she never saw the pedestrian. She was ticketed for careless driving. The pedestrian, who was thown 50 feet, was taken to Royal Oak Beaumont Hospital, where she underwent surgery."
A Lexus or Toyota??
But for sure an automatic climate control system designed by NipponDenso, Denso US.
At 4000 miles outside of front tires were being eaten up (feathered). Had dealer align, then rotated tires. Next the "new" two front tires started getting eaten up 1500 miles later. Went back. dealer ser advisor said it was in spec i asked so why is it still eating the outside edge (feathering). they said it was bridgestone hard rubber tires. On way out I spoke to the front end tech. he said spec was -3 to +3 degrees for toe and mine was +3 (therefore in spec) !!! I showed him the tire wear and he got interested and said he would set it at 0 tomorrow. hope it helps
Hate to say it but I had a 72 Pinto that would do this. I have taught my son to always turn the ventilation system on floor, bi-level, or dash before turning on the defroster to prevent the fogging. Was there more to this story? A lot of cars can fog the windshield by turning on the defrost with moisture in the system.
The Denso design runs the A/C compressor all year 'round except if the OAT drops below ~34F. So you drive around for an hour or so and the cabin gets to a very comfortable 72F but then as night approaches the OAT drops. Suddenly, with no indication to you, the A/C compressor is disabled' freeing all of the condensate previously condensed onto the evaporator to evaporate into the cold and dry incoming airstream.
It's at about this point that you notice small wisps of condensation near the bottom corners of the windshield.
Now you activate defrost/defog/demist mode.
Now ALL the super-saturated airflow coming from the evaporator begins impinging on your already COLD windshield.
Hope you came to a full stop before you activated defog mode!
I think the "big" perception is due to the larger front end. We have a HL and 05 Sienna, and my wife feels the HL seems much bigger due to the larger front.
We are a family of three and really use the Sienna's cargo capacity for travel. I would not get the CR-V as your primary vehicle.
My sister has a CRV and I can honestly say the ride is not good, especially if you are in the back seat. The ride is actually bone crunching.
I own a 2003 Highlander V6 FWD that I absolutely adore and do not think it is too large of a vehicle. My sister and her husband rode in the back seat over some bumpy Cincinnati streets recently and were both impressed with the ride.
I've been doing some test driving and recently tested a 05 Highlander. It's a very nice vehicle although quite pricey. I also tried a 04 CR-V and found it fairly good also. There is no way I would say the ride is "bone crunching". It's not in the same league as Highlander but it's not that bad. Lots cheaper too.
Maybe my sisters car has a bad suspension, or she drives to find all potholes. But, I was damn glad to get out of that car. It just looks cheap inside.
I think you're right on this, since my "after-action" impression was that the wheels were braking independently. This is highly subjective since the adrenaline had kicked in and I was somewhat excited. Like a previous poster had noted about a close call he had, it might take awhile to get the pucker out of the driver's seat!
We're having trouble deciding whether or not to go for the three-row version of the Highlander.
Our question pertains to cargo space. I know that the third row seats fold flat, thereby yielding additional cargo space behind the second row when the third row isn't needed. But what if there is no third row at all? Is there more cargo space available in that version of the car than in a folded-down third row? (I would sort of think that there would be, if only because no space would be needed in which to store the third-row seats when folded.)
There is a shallow tray under the interior floor board, according to the manual/brochure. I have not seen any V6 without 3rd row seating, nor any I4 with it. Of course, they are probably out there, but quite rare, IMHO.
>There is a shallow tray under the interior floor board, according to the manual/brochure.< Interesting... I downloaded the brochure from the web and couldn't find any reference to that, but I'll take your word for it. We do want AWD, so if we opt out of the third row, then we're looking at a 4-cylinder (all third-row versions are V6's). SDE
If one measures the height of the cargo area in both HLs (obviously with the third seat down), you will find that the 3rd seat version gives up about an inch or two of height [the floor sits up higher]. So whereas the square footage may be the same, the volume is a bit less. Hope this helps. 3rd seat is a useless, but apparently, mandatory option IMHO. The car is just not large enough to realistically put anyone back there. Would imagine the next generation HL (be it 2006 or 2007) will be closer in size to the Pilot. Rav 4, it appears, will offer a V6 for 2006 model year. Hope they offer that in a manual.
Comments
I used to own a Chrysler Town & Country AWD. The manual clearly says do not use chains on AWD model. AWD is not a 4WD so there is different when considering using chains for snow driving. I found out that the best you can do with a AWD is to get a set of SNOW Tires.
After a few days of packing, thawing, and then refreezing during the cold nights, THEN you will need snowchains.
Chrysler AWD....
Well, let's see, I have owned a 98, 99, and a 00, Chrysler AWD T&C. My daughter now has the 00 and used snowchains on it to take the kids skiing last winter.
Have to check the manual again but I seem to remember that snowchain should never be used on the front ONLY due to the rear over-running clutch mechanism. Rear only or rear and front are okay.
We were very careful, but even we did a few unintentional donuts (as well as a few intentional ones).
It was fresh snow... and slippery... Go figure!
I hope it's not a new HL, since I like the fact that the current HL isn't bulky and top-heavy.
There are those of us with many years of experience that know how to go in snow, and there are those that VSC/Trac accessories are a "MUST HAVE".
Personally I really don't like the Trac aspect of quickly dethrottling the engine as a result of wheelspin, but then I have enough experience and sense to know to immediately lift the throttle the instant a wheel spins.
Regretably the CHP, OSP, WSP, etc, must "punish" all of us for the "sins" of a few "boy-racers".
I guess for the future we will all be "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator.
Maybe Chrysler made some changes? I don't know.
In the end, I gave up the T&C and got my HL (FWD only)
I am thinking about trading in my '02 Legacy GT and getting a Highlander. I love the Legacy, but I would like to have something that I can haul stuff in. Plus, I am going to be commuting about 120 miles round-trip twice per week, and the Subaru gets dismal highway mileage, for the size of the car.
I am used to the four cyl in the Legacy, which is fairly peppy...it doesn't snap your neck, but it does ok. AWD does zap some of the power. But the best I can do is about 25mpg on the highway.
I am trying to decide on the 4cyl or the V6 Highlander. Can anyone offer any input on real-life experiences with both? If the V6 is much better with only a slight MPG penalty...I would go with it. If there really isn't much difference...I would probably go with the four. I did drive the 4 cyl Camry in '02...which I thought was fine. How does the Highlander compare to that?
The HL is about 500# heavier than the Camry so that would take its toll on acceleration. Many people are happy with the 4 but I know I wouldn't be. If you are going to tow, get the 6.
You might want to wait until the HL hybrid comes out. However, the difference in gas mileage would be higher around town/city (since it uses the electric motor more), than on the highway.
From what I've read, the 4-cyl is fine if you don't live in hilly country, especially since it was beefed up in 2004.
Hope toyota will make more option on next year model in canada!
1. Plastic dash looks cheap (personal opinion).
2. Second row seats do NOT slide back and forth - like it or leave it you can't make room for the back or yourself.
3. CVT transmission is an unknown. Do you relaly want to be the first on the block for this? Vased upon the Volvo that Ford owns but I am leary.
4. Only 203 HP. Ford says transmission will compensate. Reviews say it makes vehicle rev high.
I want a quality vehicle which is either Toyota or Honda (leaning toward Toyota after reading problems with Ody).
A little background. Got a Plymouth Voyager when they came out in 84. Kept it until we got an Astro new in 91. Kept that until this summer when we used it move and then sold it (gave it away for $200) to get 16 year old son a scoot around and get to school car.
Since then it has been an endless list of things that won't fit inside trunk of Impala. Realize we need something to do occasional hauling. Examples. daybed in box for daughter. Mattress for daybed. New Christmas tree. Always something new.
Know HL is not as big as Pilot but am worried about quality at Honda. 05 Ody is having teething problems. HL has been out and most problems don't seem that major (except hesitation issue). Pilot is too big and don't really need AWD. Don't particularly want a minivan although Ody is suppose to be similar to sports car feel while Sienna is soft and luxurious. Would prefer Ody on that point.
2 kids are in college an junior in HS. Mainly just me and the wife and two new beagle pups. Wife likes the third seat "just in case" (Rolls eyes)
Know HL isn't as wide or long as Pilot but would stuff like this fit?
When will 2006 HL be out - Spring 2005?
Where is a site a could get a glimpse of 2006 HL.
Thanks
An impossible question to answer. It may be for 90% of what you haul but but do you do about the toher 10%? Same thing for the Pilot. There's always going to be something too big.
My suggestion would be take a tape measure and measure the rear opening of each then decide. With 7" additional width, the Pilot is going to have a real advantage but my experience is it's the height, not width, that's usually the problem.
The other night we had snowshowers that quickly changed over to freezing rain. As I was slowing down for a light on a highway overpass, I felt the car start to skid as I started braking at about 10 mph. The ABS started immediately, but I could tell I was still going to plow into the car ahead of me (about 3 car lengths). I started to steer gently to the right and the VSC kicked in, alternating the ABS to the wheels. It was like some hand from above just moved the car over into the adjacent lane and straightened it out as I nudged the wheel back to the left to center it. Wow! I had very little pressure on the brakes and ended up stopping at the light, having passed 3 cars in the lane I previously occupied.
My passenger knew the ABS had worked, but just thought I had done a great job steering through the skid. It my old car I would have ended up in the other guys trunk! Once my heart slowed down, I realized what had happened and what a great system this is. I hope that I don't have to test it in quite this fashion again, but will still take the time for a test 'spin' in that local parking lot when the appropriate time arrives.
My wife preferred the "cuteness" of the CR-V, but I have some concerns about its relatively small cargo area when vacationing. She test drove the Highlander and pronounced it too large for her taste.
Note that she would never consider a midsize sedan (like the Camry) to be too large. But when I look at the specs for the Camry vs the Highlander, I am surprised to see that the Highlander is actually 4.6 inches *shorter* in length than the Camry, while only 1.2 inches wider. Of course, the Highlander is much higher than the Camry.
I know that this will seem like a really obtuse question, but what is it about the Highlander that makes it "feel" so much larger than a sedan, or than the CR-V? The Highlander is only 2.8 inches longer and 1.7 inches wider than the CR-V, yet it offers more cargo room. If we were to buy the Highlander (rather than the CR-V), does anyone think that the Highlander would truly feel much bigger to us than the CR-V?
I know that this is all very subjective, but we're grasping at straws here...
SDE
I think that the minivans (with all the seats out) can hold more than the HL or Pilot, though (too lazy to verify this right now).
Having owned a troublesome 03 Accord, I can relate to your qualms about the brand (though most owners are pretty happy with theirs).
If you don't regularly cart a lot of people or stuff, a minivan might seem like a giant echo chamber sometimes. They feel larger inside than my HL.
The interior "feel" of the HL is much more than the CR-V and I base it on the ride height and overall body design.
I think that if you dive both, you'll see what I mean. I also think it's a "more secure feeling" in the HL.
Good luck in your decision!
2006 Highlander is scheduled for September '05. Difficult to determine whether the 2006 HL will be a carryover or a new design since we know the 2006 RAV4 is completely new and that car won't arrive until December - February depending on trim.
tidester, host
Steve, Host
FWIW, I drove an MB E-class sedan a few years ago on a wet test track with stability control turned off and then turned on, in both cases going about 40 mph. It worked great at that speed.
"wouldn't be any difference.."
Clearly on a very slippery surface. So even a slight, gentle, stearing angle might not quickly change the "direction" of the vehicle such that the yaw sensor "agrees".
In this case the most likely thing the VSC did was increase the ABS brake release time period at the front to get more "roll" and thereby return a higher level of lateral, stearing control. One must assume that under-stearing was the order of the day so the VSC may have increased the braking at the rear.
"Pedestrian accident: A 23-year-old Warren woman was hit by a car as she jaywalked across Main Street in downtown Rochester around 10:30PM Nov.24. The driver of the car, a 26-year-old Macomb woman, said she has just turned on her defroster and it fogged her windshield so she never saw the pedestrian. She was ticketed for careless driving. The pedestrian, who was thown 50 feet, was taken to Royal Oak Beaumont Hospital, where she underwent surgery."
A Lexus or Toyota??
But for sure an automatic climate control system designed by NipponDenso, Denso US.
Next the "new" two front tires started getting eaten up 1500 miles later.
Went back. dealer ser advisor said it was in spec i asked so why is it still eating the outside edge (feathering). they said it was bridgestone hard rubber tires.
On way out I spoke to the front end tech. he said spec was -3 to +3 degrees for toe and mine was +3 (therefore in spec) !!! I showed him the tire wear and he got interested and said he would set it at 0 tomorrow. hope it helps
It's at about this point that you notice small wisps of condensation near the bottom corners of the windshield.
Now you activate defrost/defog/demist mode.
Now ALL the super-saturated airflow coming from the evaporator begins impinging on your already COLD windshield.
Hope you came to a full stop before you activated defog mode!
We are a family of three and really use the Sienna's cargo capacity for travel. I would not get the CR-V as your primary vehicle.
I own a 2003 Highlander V6 FWD that I absolutely adore and do not think it is too large of a vehicle. My sister and her husband rode in the back seat over some bumpy Cincinnati streets recently and were both impressed with the ride.
That's what ABS does.
Our question pertains to cargo space. I know that the third row seats fold flat, thereby yielding additional cargo space behind the second row when the third row isn't needed. But what if there is no third row at all? Is there more cargo space available in that version of the car than in a folded-down third row? (I would sort of think that there would be, if only because no space would be needed in which to store the third-row seats when folded.)
SDE
SDE