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Honda Accord vs Ford Fusion
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Go out onto the street right now and ask ten people which of the three cars in that comparo has the best fuel economy or saftey and report back to us how may blank stares you get. Most people don't care about that. They were asked which car they liked before they drove them and which one they liked after they drove them. The Fusion won so get over it.
That test is every bit as scientific and useful as what CR, JD Power, MT, C&D, IIHS, NHTSA, etc publish. So if you believe in their crap then you should believe this result as well.
I'd agree if you'd change the words "most people" to "most enthusiasts." Ask a mom in her 30s, on a budget, two young children, which she cares about more in her family's car- fuel economy, safety, or sharp handling - my guess is that sharp handling would show up third on the list.
Ask me, a 19 year old single college student (although probably not the average one), and things are only slightly different. I wanted SAB, ABS, and a 30 MPG average, as well as a car that was fun-to-drive, and thoroughly modern looking inside.
I actually should have stated it differently because, and you're right, most people would CARE about safety and fuel economy. I should have said most people don't KNOW about them. All ten people will be able to tell you which attributes they care about but most of them won't be able to tell you which one gets the best rating for each attribute.
I'm not so sure you do...You say:
Accord and Camry became kind of soccer mom cars, similar to minivan. What is so exiting about Camcord infirst place? No enthusiast or young hip guy would aspire to own one.
I have been into cars since I could read, love tearing up a back-road, and am 19 (hip is probably relative, so I won't say that I'm "hip"). I love my 1996 Accord so much, that I really thought I'd like another. (When I graduated, my parents told me that since my scholarship paid for my tuition, they'd buy me a new car.)
I drove several options of cars that fit me (i'm 6'4"), got at least mid-20s MPG, had 4-doors (after having 4-doors, I'll likely never go back - I hate the thought having to deal with back seat riders in a coupe, and since I love to drive, my friends and I usually take my car). I also value a "hip" looking interior. That left me with a lot of 4-door midsize sedans.
The Fusion's interior left me anything but impressed as far as design went.
The Camry (late model 2006 is what was out at the time) was the most relentlessly boring vehicle to drive, and handled more akin to a Buick. Plus, the SE I liked still came with hubcaps, like on my old 96 LX Accord.
The Sonata was close, but still not in the league of Honda interior design and quality.
The Subaru was too expensive.
VW and Chrysler quality ruled them out, so I never even shopped them.
That left me with my Accord. By far the best interior execution (in Nov. 2005 standards) in my eyes, superb handling considering the ride (and I drive some AWFUL interstates, so I wanted the ride to at least be DECENT - better than a Mazda 6), plenty of power for my commute, and fun handling for the back road to the Warrior River I travel to on weekends occasionally.
Needless to say, savetheland, you are wrong in one respect. This young enthusiast aspired to own his 2006 Accord EX 4-cylinder, and couldn't be more thrilled with it after over a year of ownership. What's more, I get more compliments from friends on my car than I thought I would... A friend of mine with a 2004 Jetta was talking about my "sweet Honda" that we should take on our trip to Atlanta just two weeks ago.
Sure, I could drive an RX-8, but this college student wants to save up his cash for a down-payment on a house by graduation, and not spend his extra money on gas and insurance on a sports car. The Accord was the best compromise that met my needs.
If you have a problem with it, I'm sorry. I may not be hip, but I've met the other two criteria you listed, AND drive an Accord.
Understatement of the year (given we are early in the year).
This shows me that the Fusion/Milan are worthy vehicles and do compete in this class
I am the only one who gets to decide what's competitive for my dollar, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I certainly don't look for approval from others before buying. Ideas and suggestions, sure, but I don't need someone to tell me what car I like.
Accord also became a victim of "Camrization" by Honda, what means that Honda made it mainstream mass market car with soft suspension, boring exterior and etc, owned by almost everyone who have no clue about cars and buy Accord only because it is considered to be reliable.
Fusion is just so cool and it is more exclusive, and Milan is even more exclusive. Ford did not try to copy Camry this time, like it did with last generation of Taurus and created a great car that people can enjoy.
Wonderful diction BTW.
The heritage of the CamCord is well established. The Fusion's is a question mark. I think most people want a sure thing instead of a question mark for a MS sedan, which is why the CamCord outsells the F/M/Lincolnthing 8 to 1.
Its unfortunate that they will still be building the car in Mexico... at a time when both Toyota and Honda are increasingly building cars in the US and selling consumers on that. I suspect if you ask most people off the street where they'd like their cars to be built... almost all of them would chose US, Canada, Germany, Japan, Korea, even China... Mexico is the last place the average person off the street is going to pick. US content is on the window sticker as well as place of manufacture... people may not be able to figure out the detailed specs of a car, but they can easily read that.
And just as easily spot the 4 star vs. 5 star NHTSA crash ratings... and everyone has to start showing crash info before 2008...
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/09/nhtsa_window_stickers.html
In general when car shopping, I always pull up the NHTSA and IIHS crash ratings... the Fusion falls short. In a year, the new Accords will be out with ACE engineering and the NHTSA are saying even its 5-star frontal crash test is no longer sufficient and are working to revising their crash tests...
http://www.safercar.gov/NewCarAssessmentEnhancements-2007.pdf
Safety comes first... then we talk the finer points, like specs, audio systems, engines, etc.
It is definitely not exclusive, but frankly, I don't care if there's 1 million Accords sold per year; they obviously fit other people's compromises well too! Non-exclusivity hasn't kept people out of Tahoes, Silverados, Expeditions, F-150s, etc... and people buying those lay out a lot more than the amount I paid for my Accord.
The Fusion being less common is a bonus to a lot of people (you included, obviously), and I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it.
Not if you listen to Mulally...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/12/news/companies/ford_costs.reut/index.htm?postver- sion=2007011212
The CEO, who was hired away from aircraft maker Boeing Co. in September, said the biggest cost-cutting opportunity for Ford is to reduce the number of vehicle platforms it uses around the world and increase the number of shared parts.
Sure sounds like cost cutting to me, doesn't it (especially the shared parts, they're digging into their parts bins all over again)? :confuse:
But that doesn't mean that a Fusion and MKZ will share any sheetmetal - quite the opposite. Horbury has said that while Lincoln may still use some of the same platforms as Ford they will get 100% unique sheetmetal and different drivetrains. The upcoming MKS will be the first to follow that recipe. It will have a Lincoln only 3.7L V6 with close to 300 hp and unique sheetmetal, not just different front and rear clips.
The cost cutting that has occured in the past (like the cheap black square radio) or decontenting (manual seat back adjustments on power seats) is what's gone. Fields said they would offer more features and options to attract more buyers instead of cutting features and costs and trying to sell based on price. This is already evident to some degree with side airbags being standard on the Fusion and Milan and the Edge having Navigation and Vista Roof options that would have normally been reserved for the MKX. You won't see any substantial changes until the 08 and 09 models, but it will change. Mulally just recently took control of the capital spending which had previously been controlled by the board of directors. Which explains a lot.
2008 Focus Interior
Anyone else notice the archaic placement of the hazard-flashers-switch? Why oh WHY won't they give it an easy-to-find-quickly button on the dash?
You'll be seeing constant complains - it looks like an ergonomic nightmare of too many buttons, and the stereo control buttons and the stereo display are split with the vents in the middle. I suppose they expect everyone to love voice commands with Sync and never need to use those buttons again... but for those of us that prefer buttons, bad placement.
I suppose we can applaud them for trying though. I wonder which Volvo center stack designer got shuffled onto the Focus team.
honda/acura, nissan/infinity, vw/audi do the same thing. it is nothing new.
ford takes good mazda and volvo platforms, designs fords for them and that is a bad thing. :confuse:
This is supposed to impress someone? The old gauge cluster had to be better than this. The rings around the speedo and tach look like someone was in a hurry, and didn't take the time to center them correctly. The speedo ring is almost under the plastic piece, and the tach ring has a little space between. These are just small things to Ford, but something Honda would not let slide. Quality is not job one, in this instance.
And thanks God! Two cars like Camry and Accord are more than enough. We want more exitement!
Maybe some day another car maker will, but the Fusion is not the one. Every time Ford (or GM for that matter) comes out with a "new and improved" model, they claim "This is the car that will compete with the Camry and Accord. It hasn't happened yet, and 07/08 will not be the year either. Ford and GM seem to think a new (high priced) executive will turn the company around. Engineers design cars, through Research & Devolopement. Will Ford and GM ever realize this? It doesn't seem so. They are certainly not going to catch up with Toyota by buying technology from them. It will only give Toyota more money to do the research that Ford refuses to do.
That is the way I see it. Your outlook may be different, and I am sure it is.
Many of us have already figured it out. The sales numbers are the proof. If the Accords and Camrys sell for more, and still sell more, something has to add up here. The only question I have is, what is taking you so long to figure it out?
Well I cannot argue with that. I can only add that then Ford Explorer and Ford F150 are benchmarks too. And do not forget aged Corolla - it is also the benchmark.
You just don't get it. In the past Ford's designers were constrained by cost cutting mandates and cost targets which led to cheap components. The bean counters were in charge of product development. Fields took over last year and told them that wasn't working and they needed to start adding more features and better products. When they started cutting costs they didn't cutback on the product design and engineering side. And now Mulally has taken control of Capital spending away from the board. He now has the power to decide what gets built and what doesn't because he holds the purse strings.
They were not spending enough (on engineering)in the first place. If they were, the engineers were wasting it.
And now Mulally has taken control of Capital spending away from the board. He now has the power to decide what gets built and what doesn't because he holds the purse strings.
What he decides to build, or not build, makes no difference, if they don't have the "know how" to build them better. What they should do is offer some of the High Quality Engineers at Honda and Toyota some big $$$ to come and work for them. Because by the time they come up with the "know how" on their own, they will be out of business. Right now Ford wants to buy Hybrid technology from Toyota, when what they should do is buy the engineers who know how to build them.
I know its a show car!
I like the interior of my fusion, the wheel controls make it easy to set the radio and temp (it is winter here, so easy to leave alone) and the stereo is awesome.
Ford is comparing the Fusion to the Accord and Camry. Why compare it to those and not say a Sonata or a Legacy? It suggests Ford believes that consumers think the Camry/Accord is the benchmark that the Fusion has to surpass.
I can only add that then Ford Explorer and Ford F150 are benchmarks too.
Chevy and Toyota are definitely targeting the F150 sales with their trucks. Ford is definitely a truck company no doubts about it - its the cars they still are struggling with. Demand for Explorer type SUVs are down given the prices of gas these days. Trucks still serve a useful purpose, but soccer moms have alternatives to the Explorers.
And do not forget aged Corolla - it is also the benchmark.
Isn't it amazing how Toyota can sell such numbers of the outdated Corolla? It speaks volumes about how Toyota dominates the car market.
We are here to compare the attributes and features of the Fusion and the Accord. That does NOT mean we are here to denigrate the vehicle we don't have or don't like.
The negativity and the hostility in here are not helpful to anyone. The real purpose of this discussion, indeed, this entire message board, is to help people decide what vehicle would best fit their needs. Some of you are acting like the purpose is to prove to others that your vehicle is the best thing since sliced bread and everything else is awful.
Let's get out of junior high school, okay? And let's treat each other like intelligent adults instead of 12 year olds. We all deserve that.
Thanks.
A 4 star crash test rating in no way says "Death Trap" And for those consumers smart enough to look and read the difference between a 4 star and 5 star crash test rating will see this. Yes, I agree a 5 star would look better for Ford and Yes they should have thought of this. The Fusion is not an unsafe vehicle like you want so badly to portray..
Many of us have already figured it out. The sales numbers are the proof. If the Accords and Camrys sell for more, and still sell more, something has to add up here. The only question I have is, what is taking you so long to figure it out? "
So what? McDonalds sells more burgers does that mean they are the best burger? NOPE!
Besides, I'm one consumer who has also figured out you don't need to spend the extra $$ for a perceived reliabitlity/quality advantage that Honda/Toyota use as a marketing ploy. I'm sure I won't be the last..
Obviously people think the Big Mac is the best burger, for the price, or they would go to Burger King. I go there strictly for the fries, myself. Burger King's fries suck.
I think that's enough about fast food chains.
So before anyone goes off on someone else by saying that safety is their #1 priority, then they're already sacrificing some level of safety by going to this class of vehicle. And every time they drive over the speed limit their sacrificing some level of safety. And every time they drive in the snow, rain, or at night they're sacrificing some level of safety. And on and on and on.
Since there are so many factors affecting safety when driving a vehicle, going from a 5 to a 4 star rated vehicle may have less of an impact on preventing serious injury then just staying home one snowy day a year.
Just as crash test ratings are only one measure of safety, safety ratings are only one measure of a car's characteristics...you have cost, space, comfort, reliability, handling, etc..., many of which are subjective.
What I like about these forums are when people honestly point out their likes/dislikes about cars they currently own, so folk in the market to buy can read about other people's experiences to see if the things they like/dislike about a particular car are the same sort of things they value when buying a car.
No matter what anyone says here, there are no "good" or "bad" cars on the road today, but there are some with varying degrees of safety, quality, resale value, and other things that can be measured, as well as more subjective aspects which is where people's opinions can be helpful.
Anyway, enough of my sermon. Now I'll go back to cleaning the garage that I was putting off by typing here!
I agree its good to have opinions and likes/dislikes. It is unfortunate that some feel the need to shove the Fusion down at everyone else as the best thing out there every chance they get... look back in the thread history and you can see what was the catalyst of the entire recent discussion on this particular topic. The constant Ford sermons need to stop, that's all.
No, it just means they are the best value to the most people.