i have never put much faith in epa fuel mileage numbers. i feel 'crash testing' falls into the same domain. it is very specific, which in my experience, the real world does not seem to be. there are only a few posters here that own/have owned both. that is not everything, either. personally, i liked the interior of the pilot much better than the accord.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
If safety is the #1 priority, then people should drive a Ford 500, which is safer then any of the vehicles mentioned here.
Going by this logic, we would all be driving Ford Excursions. People want the safest car they can get "in the segment they are shopping". Even if you are driving something as large as an Excursion, an 18 wheeler is still going to smash you to smithereens. You have to draw a line somewhere. Are you going to drive around in an 18 wheeler, so you have an even chance with anything?
Exactly...that's my point. People are always making compromises on safety. Like you said, people have to draw the line someplace. Some people draw the line on only buying an Excersion-type vehicle, while others may draw the line on 4 star rating or above.
That's why I'm saying that any crash test rating is just one more safety factor, but it doesn't mean that a 5 star rated vehicle is necessarily that much more safe than a 4 star vehicle. It's just one score on one particular test. I'm not going to buy a vehicle JUST because it has a 5 star rating on a particular crash test, but if there are two cars equal in my eyes for a lot of other factors, then I'd go for the 5 star rating, all other things being equal.
For example, if the radio controls are too confusing on a 5 star vehicle, I'd rather drive a 4 star rated vehicles with very intuitive radio controls, since overly complicated controls can be more dangerous than the one star safety rating difference.
So the safety rating is just one more factor to compare cars against that's all.
For example, if the radio controls are too confusing on a 5 star vehicle,
FWIW - the radio controls are a thing of beauty in the Accord - really easy to use with very nice tactile feedback on buttons and good displays for everything. I'll freely admit though - the speakers could use an upgrade... and I'm no audiophile. Its also lacking in stuff like an aux input jack and CD text display capability.
We're getting way far afield here with off-topic and uncivil postings. I've removed a bunch of same.
Here's the deal - the point of this discussion is to compare the features and the attributes of the subject vehicles. If you do not agree that the vehicles are comparable, you are invited to look for other discussions which suit your interests. If you are unable to discuss the merits of the vehicles without slamming those who happen to see things differently, you are invited to not post at all.
We need to get this discussion back on track if it's going to remain viable. It's up to you folks.
I can't see how Ford will be able to hang on to its small share of this sector when the 08 Accord arrives. The sneak peek of the 08 Accord coupe was a delight and the sedan will surely be beautiful. A 5-6 year old design Accord is more appealing to me than a newer design Fusion ,so when the 08 Accord debuts I think the Fusion's appeal will take a big hit, as well as the Sonata, Altima etc.
Honda knows how to maximize it's excellent esteem from year to year, and this fall will be no different.
Agree. But Fusion also will be redesigned later around 2008 and will set a new benchmark for affordable midsize sedans.
And if Ford decides to bring here new Mondeo it will be Acura TSX killer, let alone American Accord. Because it already outperforms and beats Accord in European tests.
Its already started with glorifying ’08 Accord even though nothing is known about it. But that Mondeo beats European Accord aka Acura TSX is very well known fact, it is not an “if”.
Some people are commenting on the looks of the 08 Accord which will definitely be sold in America. When will this so called Mondeo be available? No idea. Just an "if". Who says this Mondeo beats TSX? You, and who else? Let's talk about reality, ok.
We do know about the 08 Accord although its the coupe that's been somewhat revealed. Even tho the final rendition of the coupe will probably be different, it will probably be more like the concept than not. I think the concept looks great and have no doubt the sedan will be as sweet.
Also Mondeo's Duratec V6 with a 0 - 60mph in the high 7s is slower than a 4 cyl TSX.
There is a commercial talking about the 600 people survye with Car And Driver where they pitted a Fusion SEL AWD against an Accord/Camry of like trim levels. The fact is, yes Ford did pay for this and Car and Driver hosted it. The majority of people chose the Fusion. This is for sure going to cause controversy for months to come. I put a sunroof deflector on my Fusion this weekend and wow! talk about style. Makes the car look even better. I'm now playing with either a bra or a bug guard on the front end. When I get both installed I will redo my pics on carspace... :shades:
Oh, you didn't know this? I'm so sorry, I would've told you a long time ago - it's been running locally in Birmingham for a couple of weeks now - hence the major skepticism of the outcome of the testing by some of the posters here.
I'd opt away from a bra - I've heard they do more harm than good by trapping dirt and water underneath.
Some people think accessories make a car look better. Some think that anything that takes away from the natural lines of a car, detract from the looks. I had the moonroof visor on my old car. It did reduce the wind noise some, but I didn't like the way water stayed under the visor long after it stopped raining, or when the morning dew was under the visor, you could not open the roof until it dried up. Every time I would take off, the water under the visor (that is impossible for the wind to blow off) would come into the car. I decided not to get one for the new car. As far as the Bra is concerned, it is great for preventing rock chips, and makes bug removal a cinch. The drawback for the bra is, every time it gets wet, you have to remove it, clean it, and put it back on. This can become a real pain if you get rain one day, not the next, then rain again the next day. I do have a bra for the new car, but I only use it if I plan to take a long highway trip. I did get the mud guards (no drawbacks). And some window visors, so I can let the air circulate even when it's raining. Some say the window visors are ugly, but I like what they do, more than dislike the look. Just some things that I've found out because of experience with many accessories. Hope they work out for you.
I guess you don't realize that we're not talking about 600 totally random picks. Who knows? It could be 600 Ford employees in this 'survey'. Its like saying '4 out of 5 doctors surveyed prefer' when you pick the 5 doctors you want to survey. Its all so self-serving. Most people can see right through this nonsense.
" guess you don't realize that we're not talking about 600 totally random picks. Who knows? It could be 600 Ford employees in this 'survey'. Its like saying '4 out of 5 doctors surveyed prefer' when you pick the 5 doctors you want to survey. Its all so self-serving. Most people can see right through this nonsense.
All advertising is self-serving though. "
Where does it say in this commercial they are "Ford employees"?? or they were hand selected? It doesn't. Quit spreading rumors. Fact is the Camry/Accord lost in this round of 600 people and their choice was the Fusion.
The commercial we are talking about does talk about "attributes" of the vehicles in question.
Very nice of Ford - buy a Fusion, and you get a healthy dose of hot air complimentary to inflate your ego balloons. Quite a benefit for Fusion owners lacking in confidence. Well done Ford!
Fact is the commercial is paid for by Ford and the event was sponsored by Ford. Fact is the Fusion has AWD but no stability control. Fact is the NHTSA and IIHS both have statistics to show that electronic stability control saves lives. Fact is the Accord has VSA and better crash test ratings.
Its nice to compare the facts, don't you think? :P
P/S - This is indeed a forum, only, as far as I know, Ford doesn't own it.
Fact is the NHTSA and IIHS both have statistics to show that electronic stability control saves lives. Fact is the Accord has VSA and better crash test ratings.
That the statistics and ratings exist are definitely facts. Whether one vehicle is safer than the other overall in all real-world scenarios is still up in the air. Vehicles can be designed to perform well in the tests but poorly in the real world (not on purpose I hope), therefore those tests don't impress me. Moving a vehicle inches to the right or left of those crash barriers can change the results dramatically.
I do believe stability control is a good thing, moreso on trucks than cars however, but I wouldn't pass on a car because it doesn't have it. In fact I would rather have AWD due to the rain and snow we get in Southwestern PA than stability control. I still want both in a truck and do have both in our truck.
the ford fusion's duratec V6 gets 7.0 seconds with the latest PCM/TCM calibration with the automatic transmission
Wanna run that by me again? TCM/PCM calibration? I didn't realize we were comparing stock Honda's to modified Fords. Seems like comparing apples to, well, apple pie.
Also, he wasn't talking about the Fusion in particular, but the European Mondeo.
The main problem with the accord is its light [non-permissible content removed] steering and ugly styling.
all its got is a great engine
Everything else about the fusion is better, better heavier steering feel, faster steering ratio, SLA front suspension and more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension, stiffer chassis and better styling(more so in the milan)
The only thing better about the Fusion is its price. But the higher priced Accord outsells the Fusion 4 to 1 with half the dealerships. Tells you which car people place more confidence in. You named some minor, nothing attributes you think makes the Fusion better than the Accord. I can name 15 that make the Accord better than the Fusion, but don't want to take all that time.
But hundreds of thousands of Accord buyers know what makes them better than the Fusion. It'll only get worse for the Fusion when the 08 Accord arrives. Getting smoked by a 6 year old designed car hurts Ford. It'll only hurt more this fall.
the attributes I named are the most important attributes when buying a car. i care about nothing else and im sure many here also feel those attributes are the most important.
Judging by the sales numbers, you are in the minority sir. When most people are buying a family car, they want comfort, fuel economy, reliability, resale value, and the best car they can get for their money. Handling is nice, but not the most important factor, even if I'm shopping for a sports car.
Don't care about sales. We are not marketing people - we are auto enthusiasts. Styling, how car drives and handles are more important for us than seeing our car on every corner.
It seems that only argument that Honda fans have is a sale number. Almost every post comes with that argument. McDonalds also holds leadership in sales. But no thanks - I will try fine restaurant.
The fact you don't seem to want to see is, the Accord drives and handles as good, or better than the Fusion, all the while giving you a smoother, more comfortable ride. The Fusion has absolutely nothing on the Accord, NOTHING. When a comparison was done pitting the V6 Sonata, 4cyl. Accord, 4cyl. Camry, and the Fusion, the Fusion came in last. Sales numbers had nothing to do with that result. The Fusion's lack of positive attributes did.
I don't put too much stock in what Consumer Reports has said. They had my father's 2001 Malibu as a recommended car. Neither my father, or myself would recommend that POS to anyone looking for a car (unless we really didn't like them). Not saying CR is totally useless, just that their results are not always on the money.
Let's ratchet back the rhetoric here. We can compare the features and attributes of these two cars without declaring that individual personal opinions are absolute facts that should be believed by all.
We are all entitled to our differing opinions and that's something we all need to remember. Your priorities and preferences are your own; someone else is going to have a different set. Neither of you are wrong. You are just different, and that fact is why we have so many interesting vehicles available.
Its possible the car you test drove had over inflated tires... I've never had a car delivered with the right tire pressures. I personally like to run my tires a little higher than recommended, but 40+psi is good for a really harsh ride and the cars are usually over-inflated at the factory for shipping.
Its also well know for those that want to really toss the Accord around that two simple upgrades will really sharpen the car up tons... rear sway bar swap and front strut tower bar. The rear sway is the big difference. But yes, you don't get that stock from the factory, though anyone half handy can DIY the install and it will be under $300 to add both. The rear sway bar is one thing Honda could have done better on the Accord, but they probably wanted it to have more mainstream appeal.
Glad you got a car you like... but personally I'm not one for racing on public roads.
Actually, I found the Accord's handling to be near that of the Fusion, as well as the ride being similar too. If I had to pick one as being softer, I'd say the Accord, but they are close enough over the rough portion of I-59 I tested them on not to make a difference in my choices for purchase. Both were a good blend for me, but the Accord had many more favorable attributes in my eyes to make it the car for me. I prefer interior style over exterior style (since I spend my time IN the car, not outside of it), so I took bland outside/stylish interior over the opposite Fusion (which has more extroverted exterior styling and a strictly corporate-looking interior).
Ford Fusion has better expected reliability than Honda Accord or Toyota Camry according to Consumer Reports.
Ford Fusion is a MUCH more attractive automobile, inside and out.
The fit and finish (especially interior) on my 2006 Fusion is leagues ahead of that on my co-worker's 2007 Camry. He has a 1/8" gap between his A-pillar trim and his headliner. Oh, he also has a certain transmission/DBW problem that my 2006 Fusion doesn't have.
Ford Fusion won JD Power's APEAL award this year...Honda Accord and Toyota Camry did not.
Ford Fusion offers AWD...Honda Accord/Toyota Camry = nope. I'd rather have AWD that stability control anyday.
My Fusion doesn't look like it got punched in the nose (2007 Camry)...
I got my Fusion with all options other than leather and moonroof (dealer installed heated seats in cloth seats) for about 21,000...Honda/Toyota with the same options = nowhere near 21,000. The advantage Honda/Toyota have at trade-in won't make up the difference either.
Thanks for the testimonial! It's good to see people that are happy with their choice. I'm sure there are many who will agree with you, just as I'm sure there are many Accord owners that are very happy with their decision.
I got my Fusion with all options other than leather and moonroof (dealer installed heated seats in cloth seats) for about 21,000...Honda/Toyota with the same options = nowhere near 21,000.
Actually, that's not necessarily true. I know you mentioned you got your Fusion in 2006 and in that year, there wasn't a cheaper V6 Accord. For 2007, the Accord SE V6 compares favorably with the Fusion SE V6 FWD with similar specs.
I did build on Carsdirect for both the Accord and Fusion in my area, and the accord is $21.1k vs $20.6k for the Fusion. The extra $500 gets you stability control (not available in the Fusion. For the Fusion I added options for 17 inch wheels to match the Accord, ABS and traction control. All these options are standard on the Accord.
The two cars compare rather favorably in price. There's also a lease deal on the Accord SE V6 for 209/month 36 months/12k miles a year $2199 at signing. It works out to $270/month. The only Fusion deal going on is 249/month 39 months 0 at signing for a basic 4-cyclinder Fusion SE... for a little more you get to drive an Accord V6 with more standard features.
The Camry is in a different price range though. I leased my Accord and if I was looking to save money on a buy I'd probably have gone with a Hyundai Sonata since you can get a V6 Sonata under $20k.
Comments
there are only a few posters here that own/have owned both. that is not everything, either.
personally, i liked the interior of the pilot much better than the accord.
Going by this logic, we would all be driving Ford Excursions. People want the safest car they can get "in the segment they are shopping". Even if you are driving something as large as an Excursion, an 18 wheeler is still going to smash you to smithereens. You have to draw a line somewhere. Are you going to drive around in an 18 wheeler, so you have an even chance with anything?
That's why I'm saying that any crash test rating is just one more safety factor, but it doesn't mean that a 5 star rated vehicle is necessarily that much more safe than a 4 star vehicle. It's just one score on one particular test. I'm not going to buy a vehicle JUST because it has a 5 star rating on a particular crash test, but if there are two cars equal in my eyes for a lot of other factors, then I'd go for the 5 star rating, all other things being equal.
For example, if the radio controls are too confusing on a 5 star vehicle, I'd rather drive a 4 star rated vehicles with very intuitive radio controls, since overly complicated controls can be more dangerous than the one star safety rating difference.
So the safety rating is just one more factor to compare cars against that's all.
FWIW - the radio controls are a thing of beauty in the Accord - really easy to use with very nice tactile feedback on buttons and good displays for everything. I'll freely admit though - the speakers could use an upgrade... and I'm no audiophile. Its also lacking in stuff like an aux input jack and CD text display capability.
Here's the deal - the point of this discussion is to compare the features and the attributes of the subject vehicles. If you do not agree that the vehicles are comparable, you are invited to look for other discussions which suit your interests. If you are unable to discuss the merits of the vehicles without slamming those who happen to see things differently, you are invited to not post at all.
We need to get this discussion back on track if it's going to remain viable. It's up to you folks.
Honda knows how to maximize it's excellent esteem from year to year, and this fall will be no different.
And if Ford decides to bring here new Mondeo it will be Acura TSX killer, let alone American Accord. Because it already outperforms and beats Accord in European tests.
Its already started with glorifying ’08 Accord even though nothing is known about it. But that Mondeo beats European Accord aka Acura TSX is very well known fact, it is not an “if”.
Also Mondeo's Duratec V6 with a 0 - 60mph in the high 7s is slower than a 4 cyl TSX.
Fusion Accord
Fusion Accord
If we're going to continue to go off-topic, we're going to wrap this up.
I put a sunroof deflector on my Fusion this weekend and wow! talk about style. Makes the car look even better. I'm now playing with either a bra or a bug guard on the front end. When I get both installed I will redo my pics on carspace... :shades:
I'd opt away from a bra - I've heard they do more harm than good by trapping dirt and water underneath.
Let us know what you decide...
thegrad
All advertising is self-serving though.
All advertising is self-serving though. "
Where does it say in this commercial they are "Ford employees"?? or they were hand selected? It doesn't. Quit spreading rumors. Fact is the Camry/Accord lost in this round of 600 people and their choice was the Fusion.
Are you saying that the Camry/Accord got lost among the 600 Ford employees doing this staged event?
Very nice of Ford - buy a Fusion, and you get a healthy dose of hot air complimentary to inflate your ego balloons. Quite a benefit for Fusion owners lacking in confidence. Well done Ford!
Fact is the commercial is paid for by Ford and the event was sponsored by Ford. Fact is the Fusion has AWD but no stability control. Fact is the NHTSA and IIHS both have statistics to show that electronic stability control saves lives. Fact is the Accord has VSA and better crash test ratings.
Its nice to compare the facts, don't you think? :P
P/S - This is indeed a forum, only, as far as I know, Ford doesn't own it.
That the statistics and ratings exist are definitely facts. Whether one vehicle is safer than the other overall in all real-world scenarios is still up in the air. Vehicles can be designed to perform well in the tests but poorly in the real world (not on purpose I hope), therefore those tests don't impress me. Moving a vehicle inches to the right or left of those crash barriers can change the results dramatically.
I do believe stability control is a good thing, moreso on trucks than cars however, but I wouldn't pass on a car because it doesn't have it. In fact I would rather have AWD due to the rain and snow we get in Southwestern PA than stability control. I still want both in a truck and do have both in our truck.
the ford fusion's duratec V6 gets 7.0 seconds with the latest PCM/TCM calibration with the automatic transmission
the 2006 acura tsx is 7.0 seconds with the manual and over 8 seconds with the automatic, while getting similar fuel economy and requiring premium fuel
sure the accord v6 is faster than the fusion in straight line but the fusion kills the accord in the twisties
Wanna run that by me again? TCM/PCM calibration? I didn't realize we were comparing stock Honda's to modified Fords. Seems like comparing apples to, well, apple pie.
Also, he wasn't talking about the Fusion in particular, but the European Mondeo.
I always felt like you had a hot-rod side...
it doesnt matter, the old calibration still beats the acura tsx auto by at least a second.
this thread is about the fusion
if he wants to talk about the mondeo, mondeo is even faster
http://motors.scotsman.com/roadtests.cfm?id=1996592005
it does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds with a duratec 30
all its got is a great engine
Everything else about the fusion is better, better heavier steering feel, faster steering ratio, SLA front suspension and more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension, stiffer chassis and better styling(more so in the milan)
But hundreds of thousands of Accord buyers know what makes them better than the Fusion. It'll only get worse for the Fusion when the 08 Accord arrives. Getting smoked by a 6 year old designed car hurts Ford. It'll only hurt more this fall.
Ford will figure out a way to make this a good thing.
It seems that only argument that Honda fans have is a sale number. Almost every post comes with that argument. McDonalds also holds leadership in sales. But no thanks - I will try fine restaurant.
Accords have been known to last a long time with people reporting up to 300+k miles and nothing more than routine wear and tear and timing belts.
Fusion reliability > Accord reliability
Case closed.
I suppose CR has psychics working for them!
Who's desparation led to this nonsense?
How you know that it is nonce? When reality does not fit into your ideology it is a nonces? Typical left wing thinking.
the accord has a harsher ride AND inferior handling which was wierd.
if you want to dispute it, lets race on CA-17 if you are in california.
We are all entitled to our differing opinions and that's something we all need to remember. Your priorities and preferences are your own; someone else is going to have a different set. Neither of you are wrong. You are just different, and that fact is why we have so many interesting vehicles available.
Its also well know for those that want to really toss the Accord around that two simple upgrades will really sharpen the car up tons... rear sway bar swap and front strut tower bar. The rear sway is the big difference. But yes, you don't get that stock from the factory, though anyone half handy can DIY the install and it will be under $300 to add both. The rear sway bar is one thing Honda could have done better on the Accord, but they probably wanted it to have more mainstream appeal.
Glad you got a car you like... but personally I'm not one for racing on public roads.
Ford Fusion is a MUCH more attractive automobile, inside and out.
The fit and finish (especially interior) on my 2006 Fusion is leagues ahead of that on my co-worker's 2007 Camry. He has a 1/8" gap between his A-pillar trim and his headliner. Oh, he also has a certain transmission/DBW problem that my 2006 Fusion doesn't have.
Ford Fusion won JD Power's APEAL award this year...Honda Accord and Toyota Camry did not.
Ford Fusion offers AWD...Honda Accord/Toyota Camry = nope. I'd rather have AWD that stability control anyday.
My Fusion doesn't look like it got punched in the nose (2007 Camry)...
I got my Fusion with all options other than leather and moonroof (dealer installed heated seats in cloth seats) for about 21,000...Honda/Toyota with the same options = nowhere near 21,000. The advantage Honda/Toyota have at trade-in won't make up the difference either.
Yep, I made the right choice.
Actually, that's not necessarily true. I know you mentioned you got your Fusion in 2006 and in that year, there wasn't a cheaper V6 Accord. For 2007, the Accord SE V6 compares favorably with the Fusion SE V6 FWD with similar specs.
I did build on Carsdirect for both the Accord and Fusion in my area, and the accord is $21.1k vs $20.6k for the Fusion. The extra $500 gets you stability control (not available in the Fusion. For the Fusion I added options for 17 inch wheels to match the Accord, ABS and traction control. All these options are standard on the Accord.
The two cars compare rather favorably in price. There's also a lease deal on the Accord SE V6 for 209/month 36 months/12k miles a year $2199 at signing. It works out to $270/month. The only Fusion deal going on is 249/month 39 months 0 at signing for a basic 4-cyclinder Fusion SE... for a little more you get to drive an Accord V6 with more standard features.
The Camry is in a different price range though. I leased my Accord and if I was looking to save money on a buy I'd probably have gone with a Hyundai Sonata since you can get a V6 Sonata under $20k.
Sorry, but the rest of the stuff about today's prices means nothing to me...I bought my car 6 months ago, not today.
Price aside, I couldn't buy a vehicle that made me vomit everytime I looked at it (camcord) so I went with the much more attractive Fusion.