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Acura TL vs Lexus IS 250 vs Acura TSX

124

Comments

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "No matter how you spin it. TSX is an Accord. Honda motor company think it is."

    This has been gone over again and again.

    Actually, the Odyssey, RL, TL, TSX, MDX, and Accord are all Accords.

    Using the same logic, the BMW 3-series, X3, M3, Z4, and Mini Cooper are all 325i's.

    So what?
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    It is only in America that Honda had to invent a new name for the car to satisfy the snobish American clientèle. In Europe people have no problem comparing a BMW 320 with an Audi A4, IS 200 (not available in NA) and an Accord. There's less badge shopping there than in the US. On the flip side a TL or ES would probably not sell there.

    Biker, who test drove a 6MT IS250, found it pleasant but somewhat bland with a small trunk and rear seat.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    What is the source of your claim that the Accord and TL have different "engine, transmission, suspension, steering mechanism, brakes, sound absorption, body style, tech features, and interior design and materials"

    Although not exactly the same engine - it is basically the same - the stroke of the TL is slightly longer - that is why the TL is 3.2L and the Accord is 3.0L - but the pistons for example are the same as are the - oil pump - oil pan - valves - fuel system - bla bla bla - also things like AC compressor power steering unit brake master cylinder are THE SAME.

    I also think the automatic tranny is the same (but not the manual).

    Look at both cars and things like the steering wheel are really the same (except the badge) - I also wonder why both the TL and V6 Accord have the exact same turning circle (if they have different steering it sure does not show)

    But SO WHAT - there is NOTHING WRONG with sharing things - the cars ride, handling and looks are different.

    I would guess that parts sharing allows Honda to sell the TL for THOUSANDS less - and that makes it a good value.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Wait - its been a few months since I looked at this - maybe I have it backwards - in the 3.2L TL VS 3.0 Accord - maybe its the bore that is slightly larger (pistons bigger diameter) and the stroke is the same.

    Which would make the pistons different - but the rest of the engine (crank shaft) the same.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    I drive an 06 TSX/Navi and love driving the car. This is my 7th car and my previous bmw 325 had half the features with more torque, but I prefer the TSX's motor overall. Personally, I'd take the fun of the v-tec opening up at around 5200rpm vs the difference in the torque. If you've never really driven the TSX for a few days straight - do so. It's an amazing motor with a great dampened throaty sound. If you want massive power, go for the 07 g35 or IS350. For Toronto driving, 306hp gets you more tickets than richard simmons has candy strip shorts. As far as waiting for the 2008 version of the TSX - why bother. If it has that quirky turbo engine in the RDX, I'll either move to a normally aspirated v-6 in the TL or consider the IS. My fionce has the IS250awd. I obviously drive both frequently. Can't go wrong with either. As far as performance goes, up to about 180km/hr both cars stay side by side within 1 car length. Second gear in the TSX pulls stronger, while 3rd in the Lexus pulls with more grunt. Both are good looking cars. I prefer the interior of the TSX, however the front end of the IS is gorgeous. From the back, I prefer the TSX. The tailights on the IS need some revamping in my opinion. The IS is so smoothe, you'll forget the transmission is even shifting gears. After driving an 04 BMW325 for 3 years, I'd never go back. BMW makes a good car, but the tank dash and $700 services were a waste. To the 3 series lovers, go check out acura and lexus - you may never go back.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I don't believe that a out of warranty BMW is any more or less expensive to maintain/repair than an Acura (of course, a newer BMW is less because it's free).

    If you pay $700 for a routine service on any car, you're getting ripped off.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    Just to clarify, IVTEC doesn't kick in until 6000 RPM. At least not without modifying the ECU :D

    And the RDX motor is quirky? I hadn't heard that. Can you provide a link?
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Yup. Buy a 3 series or a 5 series and check out the schedule. 24,000, 48,000km, 72,000km you'll pay between 400-700 for the service. I still have my receipts. Ripped off..you're right, I was. Live and learn. Driving my car today, the vtec seems to kick in under 6000rpm. Looks more like 5500-5700. Driving the gf's IS tomorrow:) Good thing she listens to me when it comes to buying cars ;)
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    I'll look for the link on the quirky engine stuff on the RDX. It felt 'off' for me. However, it was still a nice vehicle to drive. Could do without the turbo for me.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    OK. Also, it's not a foregone conclusion that Acura will drop the turbo in the new TSX. Speculation is rampant on both sides of the fence. :shades:
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Here's the link about the 'quirky' engine stuff. I felt the same way when I drove the vehicle. Overall good feel, but the engine has an odd feel in regular city driving. The car jumps forward when you're in traffic when you touch the accelerator very lightly, and during acceleration if you lay off the gas to reduce speed and then resume accelerating the engine jolts you forward. Odd.

    http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6542178.html
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "24,000, 48,000km, 72,000km you'll pay between 400-700 for the service."

    For 99 and newer BMW's, the recommended service interval is as follows:

    15,000 miles (24,000 km) - Oil Service
    30,000 miles (48,000 km) - Inspection I
    45,000 miles (72,000 km) - Oil Service

    Inspection I consists of:
    * Change engine oil and filter
    * Check transmission for leaks.
    * Check rear axle for leaks.
    * Check fuel tank, lines, and connections for leaks.
    * Check condition, position, and mounting of exhaust system.
    * Check power steering system for leaks.
    * Check overall thickness of front and rear disc brake pads.
    * Examine brake disc surfaces.
    * Clean brake pad contact points in calipers.
    * Grease wheel center hubs.
    * Check steering for absence of play, condition of suspension track rods, front axle joints, steering linkage, and joint disc.
    * Check front control arm bushing for wear.
    * Check brake and clutch system connectors and lines for leaks, damage, and incorrect positioning.
    * Check for free movement of the parking brake cables. Adjust parking brake if necessary.
    * Check all tire pressures (including spare). Correct if necessary.
    * Check condition of tires (outer surfaces (left/right)), tread wear and pattern; In case of uneven tread wear readjust wheel alignment if required.

    An oil service shouldn't cost any more than $40 or $50. Even an inspection I takes less than 1 hour to complete. It shouldn't have cost more than $100 to $150.

    If you paid $700 for these services, then you were ripped off - live and learn right? Just don't go telling other people to avoid buying a BMW because they are expensive to maintain.

    Remember the idiom, "a fool and his money are easily parted."
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Thanks for your input, but you've obviously never owned a BMW. You're absolutely correct that my "24, 000, 48, 000 etc..were wrong. I was speaking generally. I don't recall what the cost was every time I brought my car in, as I did so every 5ooo clicks. I drove the car for 90,000km. I'm simply stating that a few of the services at the dealer were quite expensive (over 400)and couple in the 600-700 range. The most expensive scheduled services at the dealer out of any vehicle i've owned. I don't have the time right now, but I will get you some numbers straight from the dealer I was with. If you service your 3series at the dealership, you will never be able to service your car following the schedule BMW sets out for the cost you're suggesting. When I owned a 97' honda prelude, the C and D service were approximately 200-300 dollars. You know.... clean the pads, rotate tires, check fluid....etc. I suggest you buy a 3 series and service it at the dealer. If you can get away with 1hr services for 50bucks, it's most likely because you're delusional - you're actually at a hyndai dealership. Not one collegue I know with a BMW, servicing their car at the dealer ever paid what you're describing. I feel very comfortable telling anyone IN MY EXPERIENCE out of the 7 cars i've owned that the 3 series was by far the most expensive for regular dealer maintenence. "Just don't go telling...." I most certainly will share my experience! I also went 100,000km without every changing the pads on my 1990 accord ex-r. We'll see if Acura and the TSX are cheaper, as I plan to service my car at the dealer. I figure if you can afford 35-50k price tag, you should be able to afford the services (perhaps not the 700range unless you're driving a 911.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    No, I don't remember "a fool and his money are easily parted." I only remember "better to have money to part with, then none at all"
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "I don't recall what the cost was every time I brought my car in, as I did so every 5ooo clicks...a few of the services at the dealer were quite expensive (over 400)and couple in the 600-700 range."

    I would remind you that in your original statement, all you said was: "BMW makes a good car, but the tank dash and $700 services were a waste. To the 3 series lovers, go check out acura and lexus - you may never go back."

    I'm glad to hear you were a thoughtful owner, getting intermediate oil changes in between BMW's ridiculously long factory service intervals. Even so, it still doesn't explain the hideous amount of money you paid for preventative maintenance. "A few services" over $400 and at 2 services in the $600 - $700 range are not routine BMW ownership expenses.

    The fact is, if you own a 1999 or newer BMW, the only services you need are: Periodic oil/filter changes, a 48,000 km Inspection I, and annual fluid flushes (engine coolant and transmission, differential, and brake fluids).

    Yours was an atypical BMW ownership experience at best (and also moot since BMW now has free maintenance for the first 4 years/50,000 miles).

    Oh, and yes I've been a BMW owner since summer 2005.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Must be the Canadian dealerships ripping off the igloo people. Sounds like you're servicing your cars for the price of buying cheese. Good on ya! I'm sure the cost of service has improved since my vehicle. Hope so.

    I don't think the "tank dash" is harsh. I don't care for any of the German interiors. I find Acura and Lexus (and infinity now improving) interiors more luxurious and overall look more pleasing. However, I love the 99 and newer M3's. So, I'd be able to handle the lack luster..wall of black tank interior for fantastic performance.

    Atypical experience. Perhaps. Until the designers of BMW get the look of the 3 series and 5 together, i'll stick with the Japanese.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I agree with you on the looks. I don't like the E90 or E60 either.

    I grew up on Japanese sports cars. I even owned a 2004 TSX for 2 years and loved it - fun to drive and a great interior.

    I switched to BMW in 2005 and I'm not going back anytime soon.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    I've been looking at various sites for the horsepower changes for the 06 TSX. I've seen some dyno videos that say it's up about 15hp from the 04'. I'm a tad biased, but it sure feels faster than the white 04'my friend owns. I'm not sure how accurate the 205HP is for the TSX. Feels stronger than that. Any thoughts out there on what the change really is?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Since this is a comparo, why not check out the TSX group and ask in one of the dedicated TSX discussions.

    By the way, welcome to the Forums! :)
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    The car jumps forward when you're in traffic when you touch the accelerator very lightly, and during acceleration if you lay off the gas to reduce speed and then resume accelerating the engine jolts you forward. Odd.

    I didn't see this specifically referenced in the link you provided, but what you describe sounds exactly like the TSX drive by wire "lag" issue. Disappointing that Acura hasn't resolved this in the almost four years since the TSX came out.

    The article talks mostly about non-linear acceleration due to the turbo, not so much what you describe.

    Thanks for the link.

    Dire Straits is easy listening? When did this happen? :D
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    I has a TSX loaner and didn't notice any lurching? :surprise:
  • wrx_tsxwrx_tsx Member Posts: 3
    There is a new formula for measuring power output for cars (sae something standard) that turned out lowering the power output on *most* cars in the past year or so. For instance the Subaru Legacy GT was 250hp, but now on paper it's 243 even though it's the same exact engine. Same goes for the WRX STi, it was 300, now it's 293. On the other hand Chevy wanted 500hp for the new Z06 but came out with 505 under the new standard.
    So, the TSX is rated for the 07MY at 205hp but if it was based on teh old standard would be between 210 and 215 probably.
    I'm pretty sure the standard started to take affect for the 06MY because the numbers i quoted above were for 06 models compared to the 2005 models. So the 2006 205hp is probably 210hp in 2005 terms.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Thanks 'wrx_tsx'. I absolutely love the motor in my TSX. To me, it's a very quick 205hp. I guess from driving a lot of honda products over the years, I really dig finding the right gear. I find the torque in the car fine. Infact, I prefer the feel of the TSX engine to the RDX. I've driven plenty of cars with peak torque under 3000rpm but, I missed the upper register fun. My previous 3series BMW, was similar horsepower with more torque, but had very comparible performance with less fun factor than this car.

    Just as a totally unrelated note. My brother was quite blown away this week on the highway when his g35 would pull away from me very slowly after 140km/hr. Infact, from 140-200km I was within 3 car lengths away. Not bad for a "under powered" car! Not to mention the interior, stero, navi, materials used in the cabin seem better quality than the 05 g35. Although, a collegue at work has an 05' 911 turbo....now that's sick power! Rip your face off in every gear. I'd just have to get over the lawn mower sound/feel of the engine under 3000rmp...hmmmm....I think i could!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "There is a new formula for measuring power output for cars (sae something standard) that turned out lowering the power output on *most* cars in the past year or so."

    You know, I thought my car got a little slower last year. :blush:
  • jdelabrejdelabre Member Posts: 57
    I would not get the TSX underpower in the torque. I compaired my 06 TL to it and couldn't wait to get back into my 06 TL. I now own a 2007 TL Type-S and it is FAST! :shades:
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    Congrats on your new ride :shades:
  • waw40waw40 Member Posts: 39
    Where do you live that you can drive so much faster than TSX can? The only such place I know is German autobahn...
    Here in California, you may have a Ferrari and you still have to follow traffic or wait in line at the stop light.
    Yes, TL may be faster but the maneuverability of TSX is better.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    Not that I disagree with you but...wouldn't you also have to be on the German Autobahn to truly showcase the manueverability of the TSX over the TL?
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    have fun with your tl type-s. Nice looking car. I agree they are fast but I want to slow down so I have to avoid those cars. I have the tsx and it serves my purpose nicely. Almost bought the mazda-speed 6 since we had good luck with a 1991 mazda mx-6 GT (turbo) Now that was fast even after 200,000 miles with the original turbo, clutch, engine, etc.
  • waw40waw40 Member Posts: 39
    Actually, no... it's all straight driving. I almost fell asleep on the Autobahn at 110mph. Fortunately, there was that constant buzzing of cars passing me at higher speeds.
    For TSX/TL maneuverability test, CA Hwy 1 is much better. Remember scenes from the "Basic Instinct"?
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    Hwy 1 is very dangerous, Devil's Slide for one. :cry:
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Sorry dude. I drove the 2007 Type-s TL. Yup, it's fast. But, it needs the power at the rear. I'd take the 335 or an older M3...07 g35 over the TL-Type S. Coming from a long time acura owner.
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    This FWD thing is way over blown. You only get torque steer if you gun it hard from a stand still, not a good idea for any car. You get no torque steer if you have an AT. Additionally, in snowy condtitons, FWD is better than RWD.
  • from_flfrom_fl Member Posts: 113
    I just don't like TL or Tsx. No reason.
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    You don't need a reason, I don't like any Lexus, but I understand they are great cars. :)
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    to each their own, my sister-in-law and her husband love the lexus's they own. the one has over 100,000 miles on it with no problems. when they bought it new they gave their older one to their son and it is still going with over 200,000 miles. I personally do not like the looks of any of them but that is my opinion. That is why I own a TSX
  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    That was my point really, I don't like how they look. They are great cars with amazing reliability.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 3,831
    I like 'em both, my TL and Evil Wife's RX300. But then again, I also liked my Chrysler 300M! I'm easy...

    A fond, but bittersweet adieu to my '13 Jaguar XF. And so, I present this laurel, and hearty handshake to the new boss; '21 Audi A7 PHEV. '09 Jag XK , '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco ; all special to me. And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... I've yet to buy a car I didn't like. Although, do I really want to drive a car that would have someone such as me as its owner?

  • frisconickfrisconick Member Posts: 1,275
    I'm easy...

    Yes I remeber that about you. :)
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 3,831
    But not cheap, future Dad. Remember the Aston Martin you promised me?! :D:D:D

    A fond, but bittersweet adieu to my '13 Jaguar XF. And so, I present this laurel, and hearty handshake to the new boss; '21 Audi A7 PHEV. '09 Jag XK , '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco ; all special to me. And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... I've yet to buy a car I didn't like. Although, do I really want to drive a car that would have someone such as me as its owner?

  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Ummm. Then why are you part of an Acura forum??
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    actually I was not directing my comment towards you it was to the other poster.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    I just don't like TL or Tsx. No reason

    I feel the same way about Lexus, but I do have a reason. Great cars with regard to quality and luxury, but borrrrring! I'm getting sleepy just thinking about them. :D
  • dynatsx1dynatsx1 Member Posts: 10
    This post isn't meant to flame TL owners, but it highlights the differences in the two cars. I was entering a two lane ramp connector in my TSX from one expressway to another this past weekend, when a (insert derogatory name here) in a TL gets right up on my bumper. This connector has a 30 mph curve, and I was going about 55-60 at the time. As I enter the curve, I punch the gas, and end up taking it at about 65. It was very gratifying to watch the TL grow much smaller in my mirror. Of course, once I got onto the mainline expressway, I set the cruise, and the TL owner gunned it up to about 100 to fly by me.
  • taxesquiretaxesquire Member Posts: 681
    So...you're saying that TSX, with its narrower track and smaller wheelbase can take turns at faster rates of speed? :confuse:

    Or is it that there are more jerks driving TLs than TSXs?

    I find the latter more believable than the former (present company excluded, of course) ;)
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 3,831
    Yeah, that was fun, dynatsx1! Only reason you lost me on the connector is I, being a safe and conscientious driver, had to slow down to read emails on my Blackberry and open the lid on my cup of coffee. Then I dropped my WSJ and had to reach under my seat to find it.

    Once I was done multi-tasking, nailed the gas, blew by you and got pulled over for doing 110 in my office building parking lot... :D :P ;) :shades:

    A fond, but bittersweet adieu to my '13 Jaguar XF. And so, I present this laurel, and hearty handshake to the new boss; '21 Audi A7 PHEV. '09 Jag XK , '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco ; all special to me. And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... I've yet to buy a car I didn't like. Although, do I really want to drive a car that would have someone such as me as its owner?

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hahahahahahaha!!! :D
  • hausshauss Member Posts: 169
    The TSX is a nice car but you can't really compare it to a TL. They're in different categories and in general the person shopping for one won't consider the other. Like when I was looking for my TL I didn't consider the RL, etc. My ex-wife had a TSX and I've driven one as a loaner. That guy/gal in the TL could have taken you on that on ramp if he/she had the desire and/or driving ability. Also, let's not forget that if 97% of us in an M3 were racing against a professional driver (say Michael Schumacher) in a good ELLPS we'd more than likely get smoked.
  • dynatsx1dynatsx1 Member Posts: 10
    You make some good points Hauss. If the driver of the TL were a professional driver, he probably would've smoked me. If the driver would've been Michael Schumacher in pretty much any car, he would've smoked me. However, on this day, I had some guy in a TL hell bent on riding my bumper, and he couldn't keep up with me around the curve. That's what I posted. This is not meant to trash the TL or inflate the TSX.... it would've been been just as amusing (or even more so) if this guy was driving a Ferrari. Call it ego, but it was nice to beat some over aggressive driver at his own game.
  • hausshauss Member Posts: 169
    :) dynatsx1, that's very true. It is nice to beat overly aggressive at their own game. Well done to you sir.
This discussion has been closed.