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I currently own a 2000 Yukon 2WD. Love it, but I'm piling on tons of miles, and since it's 2WD it's not the best thing to drive in snow - although it usually does just fine!
I'm thinking of buying a used Discovery II or Range Rover for running back & forth to work, winter-time use, etc. I was amazed at the low prices! You can get a used mid-late 90's Disco II for around $8-$11K. Even a 95-96 Range Rover is only running in the high teen's!
Not being a Land Rover groupee...any advice you can give would be appreciated. What to look for? What to stay away from? Advise a used Disco or a used Range Rover? Thanks!!
Should all of this be raising red flags for me? How come they have such high sticker prices and low resale value? If I buy a used one, will I forever be sorry?
What worries us (this would be my wife's primary vehicle) are all of the problem reports. Electrical, brakes, transmission, leaking fluids...and so on. We're used to owning American vehicles that have been 100% trouble-free and reliable...and I wonder if we'll be sorry if we buy a used Discovery?
In any case, I have the same problem about once a year. The "problem" is, this fuse block is sort of exposed to the elements beneath the wet, dirty hood. This is where the big power leads come in, get distributed, and exit. Any poor connections inside there will give "dirty" power to the downstream CPUs... and make them act up.
To fix it: open the plastic box and sequentially remove the screws holding the fusible links in place... clean the contact points with a pencil eraser, blow out the crud and reinstall the link. It will take you about 15 minutes.
I hope this helps... it took me 2 years to figure this one out and it was an amazingly easy fix.
Regards, -Bob
Electrical: usually something minor. Once fixed, it stays fixed.
Transmission: you won't find a more durable transmission on any vehicle, period. Service it once at 35k miles and then simple fluid changes forever. My mechanic here has seen ONE transmission failure on one Disco in all his years... and that's because it came with no fluid.
Brakes: frequent pad replacement, and soft rotors. Look at 80k-100k miles for rotors, and 17k-25k miles for pads. Replacing the pads takes me 1 hour tops and it's truly fun to do.
Leaking fluids: "If it ain't leaking, then it's empty." That used to be true, and something of a joke (said with a pained expression) but now you really won't have leaks. Perhaps a minor drop here or there, but I really doubt it.
At 80k miles my DiscoI is as tight as the day I bought her, looks and drives like a new truck, has tons of power, works perfectly, uses no oil, and scares the bejeezus out of me with what she'll do. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. But I've "earned" this with regular attention to details, regular maintenance, and frequent fluid changes. I get out of her what I put into her.
Unfortunately, the Fords and Chryslers I've owned haven't proved likewise and I've had failures even with regular maintenance. The Hondas are fine cars but seem to have "X" amount of life... and once it's used up, they just collapse.
I hope this helps, -Bob
For what it's worth my mechanics here had never heard of it either. But it makes sense... the ECUs all rely on "clean" power just like your home PC and to feed them "noisy" power from poor electrical connections can only cause problems. That fuse block happens to be where the power is distributed to the various subsystems.
Good luck, -Bob
The '03 also has a slightly smoother ride and better braking.
I buy Lockheed or Wagner pads for about $48 an axle. Jacking up one side of the truck and removing both wheels, I can honestly replace the pads on a wheel in about 15 minutes. Bleeding takes a little longer... and I am WAY generous with the bleeding to get plenty of fresh fluid down the lines and into the slave cylinders.
To remove/replace the rotors is not a big job and I can't imagine it taking 4 hours labor.
I don't know if it's skookum but I have circular (not radial) gouges in my rotors from stones getting into the pads and such. I just drive the darn thing and the gouges get polished. If they were horrendously deep gouges I could see that weakening the rotors and demanding replacement. But mine are visible, not deep, and nicely polished with zero problems.
Take a look at your rotors... any blueing? Any bad gouges that will catch a fingernail? Are the pads completely shot and ruining the rotors? If so, you might have to replace the rotors. If not, put on new pads and drive it.
Just my $.02 of course.
http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/29/0729feat_3.html
Personally, I would pass on the ACE.
The Volvo Trans-Alaskan Enduro
Steve, Host
Gee, I wonder what THAT wind chill was? The worst I ever saw was at Prudhoe one February. The ambient temp was -74F and the wind was sustained at 40mph+ We were off the charts for windchill but estimated it at about -132F.
That was a nice article about the drive! Thanks.
If possible, see if they'll let you keep the old rotors. In 100k miles you'll be glad you have them!
I read your post re: owning a used Discovery. It seems like you have had very good luck with yours. I've heard (mostly from driving reports on Car&Driver, Edmunds, etc) that the Discovery II is a little better as a daily driver, on the road.
What model year Discovery do you currently own?
I own a silver '96 and I call her Anuqa... that means "Wind" in the Yup'iq language.
My DI started life as the biggest pain in the rear that I'd ever owned. I was torn between loving her, and hating the very air she breathed. But I was told that once you take a Rover "over the hump" it's worth it. So I persevered and now I'm sure glad I did. She's an amazing truck in every way. I expect a lot from her, and she has never let me down in 3 hard years.
I agree the DII is a better truck onroad. The various systems enhance cornering and such, and the extra room in back is a plus. Add a bit more horsepower and you've got a winning combination!
But for the things I do with Anuqa, she's perfect. She has the short overhangs for fewer things to drag offroad, and she has plenty of power to worry me about breaking a half-shaft when I'm in a tricky spot. On the highway I drive her like a Lady of a Certain Age, so she has plenty of power there too.
And I LOVE pulling Jeep Grand Cherokees out of snowbanks. *wink*
Best regards, -Bob
wwest "Mazda Tribute/ Ford Escape problems" Aug 8, 2002 12:55pm
Steve, Host
I suggest opening the hood and doing this with the engine off. Turn the key on until the air blowers operate, then put them on some medium setting. Get some kind of mildew killing spray (your guess is as good as mine) and spray into the air intake at the base of the windshield, beneath the wipers. You'll want to try just a little. Step inside the truck and you'll smell it coming from the vents. Then turn the control to aim the air up thru the defrosters and down thru the foot heaters. Let it spread through the entire system and then try it again. Then shut her down and let it soak in overnight.
Note, I have no idea if this will affect the plastics or paint of your truck so BE CAERFUL. I have heard this works but I have no personal experience doing it... I rarely use my air conditioner here in Alaska!
Another thing to consider, when you're about a mile from your destination, put the heater on and let it cook your air system dry before you shut the truck off. It works for me!
I hope this helps, -Bob
I feel much better because now I know both the reason and solusion.
Took her off road up in the foothills west of Denver on Day 2. Ran through the mud, snow and much up along dirt roads on the South Platte with no problems. Then proceeded to put 500 miles on her driving around town. Got no snow to test the four wheel drive systems.
Headed for Florida at end of February. Terrible weather forecasts in Dallas and other parts of the South caused us to choose the Disco over our station wagon, despite the fact that the Disco gets about half the sw gas mileage.
1,987 miles and three days later, we arrived in Florida. Drove through Dallas the day after the ic e storms. Mileage ran about 14.7 mpg, with about 50/50 superslab and back byways. Did not need the a/c on the trip down. It is all downhill to Florida from Denver. Amazingly, after three days in the Disco we were not tired, not cramped, and not mad at each other. That included an 870 mile run on the last day because there were no motels available anywhere in Northern Florida.
The Disco runs straight and true on the highway. The seats are very comfortable, although I occasionally wished that we had opted for the HSE, with its 8 way adjustable passenger seat. Every single feature of the Disco operated flawlessly.
We did occasionally use the a/c in Florida. Darn hot and humid there, compared to Denver. Dual sun roofs are great when it is not quite hot enough for a/c.
Trip home also three days, and 1,998 miles via a somewhat different route, again about 50/50 super highways and back roads. Mileage started to improve at the end of the first day on the way home. By the time we arrived home the average per tank was high 15 to low 16 mpg. Don't know why, as it is all uphill.
The Disco again performed flawlessly. Nothing failed to work. Great radio when there are stations anywhere in range. We even were able to pick up the Kentucky and Louisville conference games, even though we were nowhere near Kentucky on the trip.
Day after we arrived home the Mother of All Storms hit Denver. We finally got a chance to test the four wheel drive. The large snow plow stuck in the median in our development declined my offer to tow him out, but I have no doubt that we could have done it (sic!).
We finally gave up on Wednesday when the snow in the driveway was 27 inches deep. After all, this is a brand new truck,and I did not want to bruise it.
I don't know how we could have asked anything more of the Disco in the mountains, on our trip, and in the snow. We did not buy it for long trips, and I would normally take the station wagon because it gets 30 mpg on long trips. At the same time, we would not hesitate to take it on our next long trip, which is to New Jersey in June.
The point is that, were it not for the positive comments of many of you regular contributors to this discussion group, I would never have had the "nerve" to buy such a unique vehicle. I would have been stuck with one of the more mundane SUVs out there. Thanks to all for giving me the courage to buy the machine I really wanted to buy all along.
Pewee
For what it's worth, I have plowed snow with my headlights in Anuqa, with waves of snow coming over the hood like water breaking over the snout of a submarine. In those conditions the only time I bury her is when I gave up and let my momentum drop. Then I have to climb out the back hatch... the driver's door won't open. 27" shouldn't have slowed you down much at all.
Congratulations! Keep the stories coming!
We're getting snow tonight, it fell all day and all last night... and all this week, they're saying. If we get a good dump I'll take some pictures of Anuqa plowing.
Enjoy!!
http://www.landyonline.co.za/specs/range_rover_2001.htm
R178
This is the best vehicle I have ever owned. The Discovery has 70,000 miles and we have had no problems with the car and I mean no problems, zero, zip.
We have a very steep winding driveway and we are the only people in our neigborhood who don't really have to have our driveway plowed. Nothing stops this SUV.
My wife and daughter are now both going to school and the commute is costing me a fortune so we have decided to say goodbye to LandRover. The high cost of gasoline is killing us so we have been pricing Honda CR-Vs and someone to plow next year.
I'm writing this because I want people considering buying a Discovery to know how brilliant this SUV is for anyone who has to drive in adverse weather like we have here.
There is a lot of bad blood about SUVs and I understand that if you live in the flatlands but some people really need what the Discovery can deliver.
Best,
TJ
(Also, if I'm looking for a top-of-the-line older Discovery, what would the top-of-the-line model be called?)
I know the gas mileage isn't so good. But what has worried me most are claims that they're mechanically unreliable and that parts are very expensive. Would appreciate a real-world view from past owners.
I understand occasional repairs being needed, but don't want to wade into a quagmire.
Thanks. (Also, by the way, how rare are black non-cloth interiors? I seem to see a lot of *beige*)
-SUVinLA
I understand your concern about fuel economy, but offer the following points to consider if you haven't already parted with your Disco:
1. I own a 2000 CR-V, and they get about 20 mpg. I estimate you'll save about $500/year in fuel if your Disco gets about 15 mpg. Not insignificant, but you'll likely pay close to that for a season of plowing.
2. The CR-V is a soul-less appliance, and components are very light duty. There is nothing on it that compares to the heavy duty components in a Disco. It gets my wife around town, but I don't feel as safe in it out on the highway.
3. You've been very satisfied with the Disco to this point and it's a known quantity. Does your lease have a buyout option that would be cost effective?
Anything you buy new will have a higher overall cost than what you're presently driving if you consider all the expenses involved. LR is offering leases on 2003's starting at $399/mo if that fits your budget. A CR-V will run about $10K less than a Disco, but you will get exactly what you pay for. I had looked at the 2000 Disco's before we bought the CR-V. I loved it, but it wasn't primarily for me. Since my wife prefered the size of the CR-V for around town, we opted for that over the Disco. At the time it seemed the right thing to do, but it has been a disappointment mostly in terms of "substance," since the car it replaced was an 82 Volvo 240 that was built like a tank, and got ~23 mpg.
My present driver is an 85 MBZ diesel station wagon. My desire is to get into a Disco or Defender in the next 2-3 years. I've been following this forum for about a year, and am grateful for the postings of enthusiasts as well as those who may have been disappointed with their Rover experience.
Best wishes in your decision.
Mike
This list of vehicles involves 4 people.
One has had an Explorer, a JGC and now a Durango in 5 years. While my truck is now paid for, she has 6 years of payments remaining.
Another has had an Explorer, a JGC and now has an Escape. 6 years of payments remain.
The only vehicle of this list that was bought when I bought my Disco is the Chrysler minivan, which is now on its 3rd transmission (80k miles).
Sometimes you have to spend money to save money... this is a perfect example.
Another thing to consider, my family is the most precious thing in the world and driving is arguably the most dangerous thing they will ever attempt. If I could wrap them in a 20' ball of protection every time they ventured out, I would. But I can't, so I put them in the toughest vehicle I can find.
Take a look here... there are some very good reasons to keep your Disco!
http://www.landroverclub.net//Club/HTML/Main_Wrecks.htm
Regards, -Bob
Thanks for your input. Any other thoughts will be appreciated. The turn in date is looming and I am totally confused.
Thanks,
TJ
Every Honda I ever owned exceeded the base MPG estimates.
If you live in suburbia (ie. not Alaska) and you aren't really off roading it, then a CRV is probably a better vehicle for you. It's a tall, AWD Civic station wagon after all. It will tackle bad weather, dirt roads, adn your average campground access trails no problem. It will also be very car like around town. Light, and easily parkable.
You may have saved money over the long term by keeping the Disco, but a few big money repairs can drastically alter those numbers.
Just my opinion. I hate to see you getting so much grief over something you've already done. Personally, I would have kept the Disco, but I'd be getting it muddy a couple times a week too. :-)
For TJ, if your buyout is $15k, you may want to consider the lease on the '03 Disco. 39 months is only slightly more than the buyout of the '98 and you get a new truck with 4 years of warranty. There is of course the costs of exiting the old lease, and down payment on the new one, which you'll need to factor in. But it sounds like the buyout is on the high side to me, but that is what the book value is. Would they negotiate, or would your dealer work with you if you move from one lease into the other?
In fairness, I have to admit that mileage is one reason I'm sticking with my diesel for now. My beater for scout activities is a diesel Jeep Cherokee that gets 25 mpg. When LR finally brings the diesel over here, my last excuse will fall away, and I'll have to get one. I can hardly wait.
Hearing the skid and feeling the impact I was scared about what the back would look like but am thrilled at how my truck took the beating. The estimates are coming in under $600 which I see as amazing by todays standards.
I'll trade 20mpg for my 14-15mpg any day of the week for the protection offered by my brick on wheels. Now if I could only find more time to explore some trails...
Oh yeah, for family duties, you canNOT buy a safer SUV than the CRV!! I believe it has gotten PERFECT scores in EVERY crash tests (with the exception of bumper tests). You cannot beat that!
Damage to Cherokee minimal actually a scratch.
Discovery, new bumper and tail lights. Go figure.
It is not too late to keep the Discovery but BMW is not being generous. They don't care because they aren't Discovery....it's a FORD now.
(Oh man, I better not say that I'll open a whole new
discussion topic)
Thanks for everyone's opinions. It really comes down to Honda, good mileage and a good car based SUV and probably right for these times. Not a bit of panache with these mini suv's. Thought about the Freelander but why settle.
The Discovery was the vehicle of my dreams and it was right for the times pre-war, pre-Enron, pre-Tech crash. Like I said I never felt more secure or more on top of things in this machine and in any kind of weather.
I am also shallow enough to say I also felt something special about driving the Disco.
Times have changed though and my gut feeling is this is not the time to indulge my fantasies.
Thanks for everything.
TJ
Uh... all cars are rated for safety in frontal crashes only against other cars of their class: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/Info.html#iq6
>6. Can I compare vehicles from different classes?
Depending on the weight of a vehicle, it can be compared to other vehicles in it's class. Since a frontal crash test into a fixed barrier is similar to a crash between two vehicles of the same weight, the frontal crash test results can only be compared to other vehicles in the same weight class and those plus or minus 250 lbs.
Side crash test results can be compared across all classes because all vehicles are hit with the same barrier and at the same force.
Rollover Resistance Ratings can also be compared across all classes.<
The Discovery is a 4618 lb. vehicle. The CRV's 3075 lbs. A Toyota LandCruiser's 5115. Discovery's considered a midsize utility vehicle: http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96003.htm
The CRV is in the "small utility vehicle" class.
While it's great that the CRV ranks as good as it does, that doesn't mean it's a match for bigger vehicles.
BTW, i do NOT own a CRV nor even a Honda. I used to own a '97 CRV. I now own a Toyota 4Runner.
http://www.landroverclub.net//Club/HTML/Wrecks_lorry_top.htm
http://www.landroverclub.net//Club/HTML/Wrecks_Cliff_jumper.htm
There was no assumption whatsoever in my post.
Second, as stated my purpose was not to criticize the CRV as a vehicle. I don't disagree that it's safe for its size.
But if you'd like to continue on the theme that just possibly, it's not the world's magically safest vehicle, you could look here to see that 2002 models are subject to recalls related to crash safety:
http://www.safetyalerts.com/recall/a/014/v1096.htm
Some smaller vehicles that have been well designed do fare decently in crashes with larger vehicles, as seen in the Land Rover pictures posted above. Some poorly-designed large vehicles fare poorly in crashes.
But pound for pound, sorry mate, the bigger vehicle wins, all other things being equal. Talk to a few insurance adjusters.
One viewpoint is here:
http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/19/06/01.html
"by Arthur Croft, DC,MS,FACO,FACFE,FAAIM.
In this brief review I will attempt to put some perspective on the relative risk one takes in driving passenger cars of varying sizes and masses within our current heterogeneous fleet of vehicles. This includes, in addition to very small cars, large vans, pickups, and sport utility vehicles (SUV). It's a good idea to consider these issues when considering the purchase of a new family vehicle. In a very real sense, your family's lives are at stake. As an illustration, if the vehicle you crash into weighs 50 percent more than yours, your family's risk of death in that crash is 3-6 times greater than the occupants of the heavier car. If you are driving a mid-sized passenger car and you are struck on your driver's side door in a side impact crash by a larger SUV, your risk of death is close to 50 times that of the other driver. This is food for thought, perhaps, for parents purchasing that first car for a teenager with precious little driving experience who wants that cute little Geo Metro..."
Then there's this from the National Policy Analysis Center...
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA453.html
"Fasten your seatbelts for some politically incorrect news: You are most likely to survive a motor vehicle accident if the vehicle you are in is big.
Size and weight equals better occupant protection - it is basic physics ..."
Last time I checked, physicists who work this side of quarks don't "assume" a whole heck of a lot.