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Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit

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Comments

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    steven39 vw and the word reliability ....

    Is there data that you could share to show the difference in reliability between Mazda3 and Rabbit?

    Anecdotal experience is entertaining at best.
  • erniea1erniea1 Member Posts: 9
    The Consumer Reports data had the previous VW as poor reliability and the Mazda3 as good, in fact very good. I have JPegs of these pages. Can you post them here?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    What data have you seen aviboy?

    I told you, I have seen NO data recommending the Golf/Rabbit. I am going on the history of it's predecessor. I have stated that many times. Because cannot find data on the new to US Rabbit.

    What is your source for the Rabbit/Golf reliability?

    What are the differences in expected reliability or differences in past reliability of German VW Golfs and Mazda3?

    Ok, every respected periodical not only calls the Mazda3 a class leader, but, also has reliability that is at least above average to excellent. The history of the Golf that has been sold here in the U.S. has been repeatedly below average to poor. I have said many times in this thread, that it is too early to say the the VW is poor, however, look at the history of them, and history does not paint a good picture.

    Both vehicles have been on the market for several years so there is data for both past and current (initial) reliability.


    Where have you seen accurate reliability assessments for the Golf/Rabbit?

    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash the vehicle. I have driven it. It does drive nice, and has good fit and finnish. I just question VW reliability.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study Results (data released in 2006 for 2003 model year vehicles)

    Problems per vehicle
    2.43 Mazda
    2.99 Volkswagen
    2.27 Industry Average problems per vehicle
    1.94 Honda

    The difference is less than 1 problem per vehicle difference between Volkswagen and the industry average.

    The difference between VW and Mazda is 0.56 problems per vehicle.

    And this is for 2003 vehicles, it is reasonable to conclude that 2006/2007 vehicles will be more reliable for both manufacturers based on improving initial quality/reliability data.

    Honda is popularly regarded as a gold standard of reliability and 1.05 problems per vehicle is the reliability advantage compared to VW.

    Based on data, I have to disagree with your opinion Steven.
  • erniea1erniea1 Member Posts: 9
    The Mazda3 was not alive in 2003. Production started in 2004. :confuse:
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The Mazda3 was not alive in 2003. Production started in 2004.

    The purpose of my data is to provide data of manufacturer long term reliability. This must be done by reviewing past performance from the manufacturers.
    The results are relevant to the current 2006/2007 Mazda3 and VW Rabbit, though it will be another 3 years before we can look back at actual results from the current vehicles being sold.

    No where in my post did I state that Mazda3 production started in 2003, although the first car rolled off the assembly line on 8 December 2003. ;)
  • d_hyperd_hyper Member Posts: 130
    Unfortunately for Mazda, this statistics includes B-series pickup (Ford). Although the brand should look for consistent quality across the range, it is not the case w/Mazda. Made in Japan Mazdas vehicles are significantly better than the rest. The appropriate comparison should be between models not brands.
  • steven39steven39 Member Posts: 636
    i don't think it's probably fair to bash vw reliability.yes vw's track record in the past is not very favorable as far as reliability is concerned.however,toyota is haveing major problems with the 07 toyota camry
    a supposidly rock solid dependable car.they are haveing tranny problems and engine problems.an obvious flawed design with the engine and tranny.
  • erniea1erniea1 Member Posts: 9
    "toyota is having major problems with the 07 toyota camry"

    Can you elaborate on this? I just purchased a 07 Camry Hybrid. Thanks!
  • d_hyperd_hyper Member Posts: 130
    '07 Camry woes http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0c6927/0
    Good luck with your purchase!
  • sssfegysssfegy Member Posts: 132
    The new Rabit is based on the 2005.5 Jetta so look at the records for the New Jetta. How about Car&Drievrs comparison? That's a very weird one again, Mazda beat all the cars,in all categories they tested, but took number2?! What a world! Consumer reports picked the 3Hatch over the A3? But the sedan 2.3 won't beat the unrefined 5 cylinder(sounds like a direct injection turbo with no turbo!)? It sucks to be a Mazda product engineer!
  • bziebzie Member Posts: 1
    the new rabbit is not based on the jetta the rabbit is the new golf it has replace it i work for vw and the rabbit is a great car so fudge the review and that crap
  • whiteandnerdywhiteandnerdy Member Posts: 6
  • whiteandnerdywhiteandnerdy Member Posts: 6
    The Mazda3 got beat by the Rabbit in the Car&Driver comparo because the Rabbit scored more in the "fun to drive" and "gotta have it categories," which I think are purely subjective. However, the Mazda3 beat or tied the Rabbit in every objective performance category. I think the Car and Driver guys just had a thing for the Rabbit and fudged their test.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Yes....Same interior, same suspension, same front end, same engine, same platform.
  • shirotorishirotori Member Posts: 51
    I thought this article was interesting, I think it may stir some more discussion.

    link title
  • grumpyoldman1grumpyoldman1 Member Posts: 3
    Just bought a Rabbit.
    Tried the mazda 3 and did like it alot but preferred the rabbit.
    And after driving around through the blizzard/ice storm in the northeast this week I love it even more. Great little (heavy/ well balanced) bad weather car.
  • nordiconenordicone Member Posts: 4
    It's good to see a french maker in the top 10. I've always liked the designs of Peugeot and Citroen (though I prefer Peugeot).

    I would bet that the Passat is responsible for pulling VW down on the list. I have heard horror stories here from friends with previous Gen Jettas and Golfs, far more that I have ever heard in Europe. The EUR Golf and even the Bora have usually been a pretty decent/average cars in terms of reliabilty. The Passat however has always been known for its problems. There's no question that the Mazda3 is a much more reliable car.

    There have been numerous complaints around EUR that the new car feels less remarkable than the previous one and frankly I agree. The doors don't close with that old VW feel anymore, it feels more like the [non-permissible content removed]. It's quite obvious that a lot of cost cutting went on. I haven't driven the US market Rabbit yet, but the Golf--besides it's long list of features, some of which are not even available on the Rabbit here--is not impressive. It's also significantly more expensive. I'd say Mazda has caught on big time and I can't wait to see the next Gen 3.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    My rabbit closes with a very nice thunk! :blush:

    Not impressive? If anyone has anything bad to say about the us spec rabbit, they usually admit that it has a pretty ballin' list of features. I feel bad for the euro golf! :sick:
  • savvyboysavvyboy Member Posts: 10
    "German engineering is the way to go...no more Japanese cars for me. They just can't compare to the feel of a German car. "

    So who is going to be the first to tell this guy that the Mazda 3 is more of a European car (Volvo S40) than it is a Japanese car?
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    well techincally they are both underpinned by ford.

    I consider it more a japanese though.

    And he was referring specifically to 'german' cars not all european cars. I'm pretty sure that a renault or fiat feels different than a vw or bimmer.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    well technically they are both underpinned by ford.

    Maybe so, but, it's a great platform. It really is only the base to build a vehicle off of. The Mazda3, Volvo S40 and Focus are all totally different vehicles.

    The Mazda3 has a European drive (great handling, responsive steering, top knotch breaking) and offers Japanese reliability.
  • ktpklossktpkloss Member Posts: 28
    and decided i need a new car, Mazda3 or VW... went to a Mazda/VW dealer (how convenient) test drove 4-dr 6A, 2-dr 6A and a GTI VWs plus a 4dr hatchback Mazda3... my subjective opinion? they're both similarily good cars, above the competition in the compact segment...pluses for Mazda: (touring s, no options) alloy wheels, stability control...not much more... Rabbit: heated mirrors, better room (first car ever i didn't have to pull the seat all the way back to drive comfortably + plus it's wider, and that helps a lot) way better default sound system, great visibility, more elegant,refined stylish interior finish... well... and to top it off it's 3k less than Mazda (i wanted hatchback, don't need 4 doors, so 2dr VW will do just fine)
    got that rabbit for $16.4k ($300 below MSRP) vs $19.4k that the guy wanted for Mazda3 5-dr hatchback, touring S...

    no braier, and , lol... i heard a lot about horrible VW dealership experiences, mine was totally awesome actually...i was awaiting that "extended warranty/undercoating/acid rain" crap filled with dread...but...surprise surprise, visit to the "finance office" took all of 3 minutes and ended with an honest handshake. thanks Walker VW/Mazda in Barre, VT :)))
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    The Mazda3, Volvo S40 and Focus are all totally different vehicles. The Mazda3 has a European drive (great handling, responsive steering, top knotch breaking) and offers Japanese reliability.

    Speaking of European, the British weekly, Autocar, rates (using 5 stars) the Ford Focus superior to the Mazda3 and Volvo S40.
    - Focus hatch: 4.5 stars, "UK's favourite car returns bigger and better than ever"
    - Volvo S40: 3 stars, "strangely less than the sum of its parts"
    - Mazda3 hatch: 3 stars, "a good car, but not quite what it should have been"

    Moral of the story: sometimes you have to leave home to feel appreciated.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Moral of the story: sometimes you have to leave home to feel appreciated.

    If I wen to the UK, I would be driving a far superior Focus then we get here.....I guess I would appreciate that much more then what Ford provides for their own people!
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    - Mazda3 hatch: 3 stars, "a good car, but not quite what it should have been"

    I checked Autocar again and noticed that the Mazda3 hatchbacks in the UK differ from those being sold in North America. The UK Mazda3 hatch uses a 2.0 L with 148 hp instead of our 2.3 L with 164 hp. Hooray for us!
  • ktpklossktpkloss Member Posts: 28
    there's a german comparison of rabbit (golf) mazda 3 and not offered in US Kia Cee'd... you don't have to know german to get a sense of what's going on...btw that Kia is not bad at all! and followig hyunday's example in US, they offer best warranty in europe now.

    http://www.autozeitung.de/online/render.php?render=47159
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    The comparison is with the Mazda3 hatchback with a 1.6L engine offering only 105hp (poor cousin to what we have available).

    p.s. Being a German site, I am not surprised that the VW Rabbit won. ;)
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "...instead of our 2.3 L with 164 hp."

    I thought it was only 156hp. :confuse:
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    the rabbit being the car that it is, i'm not suprised that it won either! :P
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    good choice ktpkloss! Glad you like your bunny, my experince with the dealer was much the same; quick, friendly, and to the point. But the dealer that i deal with now (where i get my service done.), they are less than stellar. But i was more concerned with the buying experience personally.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    it is. even before the new sae ratings it was only ever 160.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    and the other cars were offering the same size engine too.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    I thought it was only 156hp.
    Oops. You're right! I don't know from where I got that.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    its ok. I always forget numbers too!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I had the opportunity to drive a Mazda3, and a Mazda5, both rental, but almost new cars, back to back. Boy, do they feel like completely different cars even though they share platform and many components! The steering feel, in particular, felt so much better in the 3.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    its probably the weight, a car like the mazda 5 really need a small displacement v-6. Plus its much taller than the 3.
  • d_hyperd_hyper Member Posts: 130
    5 feels 500-pound heavier than 3. It's still a very agile car which does not need a v6 (unless you recommend v6 for every car) - with manual it accelerates well and stops great. Also, taller doesn't mean higher center of gravity.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Also, taller doesn't mean higher center of gravity."

    Well, in the case of comparing a Mazda5 to a Mazda3, yes, taller DOES mean a higher center of gravity.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The 4-cyl in the 5, IMO, would be completely acceptable for city use -- quite peppy. I didn't get a chance to test it on the highway, but I suspect it may be a bit underpowered going up a hill at highway speeds.

    The 5 also handled quite nicely. I actually found it quite tossable. I didn't expect it to handle as nicely as the lighter, lower 3, but what I found surprising was that the steering lacked the precise road feel in the 3.

    And, IMO, Mazda has to put in traction control in the 5. It wasn't difficult to spin the inside front tire at all when turning on wet pavement.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    You might want to take a look at this article (featuring the 3, but can be applicable to any car):

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3444
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Hmm..that's interesting, although I can't say I'm really surprised by anything the story has revealed. I've always known alarms are only for psychological peace of mind (even though I'm as guilty as anyone in perpetuating that mythology by insisting on having one),but I've always thought immobilizers are effective anti-theft devices. :confuse: The other thing I've heard is that a tiny bit of ceramic (ie. from the tip of a spark plug) can break automotive glass effectively. :cry:
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Amen to that. I hate Rabbit's, I had one and they suck. No offense to Rabbit owners. I love my new 2007 Mazda 3 S Grand Touring, fully loaded to the max. A "J" car is simply the best. This has been proven many times over. A "J" car is the first digit in the vin#, this is made 100% in Japan.
    I have Two Honda's that are "J" cars and now the Mazda which is a "J" car and love them all. Rabbits can compete especially with the price of the Mazda's.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    This you are right about, however, having an engine cut off unit, is awesome. At least the only thing is that will be broken is the window and hopefully that the car will not be stolen. Nothing is a guarantee in life. I keep my cars in my garage.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Don't mean to be doom and gloom, but a friend of a friend had her Mercedes stolen right out of her garage! :cry:
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    J in the vin number doens't always mean that.

    And its your opinion.

    Rabbits can compete especially with the price of the Mazda's

    you are right...they SURE can!

    If you don't want to upset anyone, don't post comments like '_____ sucks.' or, 'i HATE _____'.

    I like my bunny better than the 3, but i still like the 3 and realize what both cars stregnths and weaknesses are.

    You post has a very heavy air of someone who didn't REALLY own one, and is just saying that to hate on the car.

    For example, why not elaborate to why it sucked? And why you traded it in so early? was it a 2 door? Four door? Did you make a profit off of it or do you know have negative equity since the earliest you could have had one was back in 2006, and that means you would have had to have been waiting in line for one... :blush:
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Let's not turn this into a personal thing please.

    It's OK to disagree about the cars. That's the purpose of a comparison discussion like this. But we're not here to talk about the motivations of each other. Let's stick to the cars please.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    I didn't attack anyone here at all, I was simply stating the car. I did own one and had nothing but problems, from an oil leak to a trans problem at 30,000 miles. I "DON'T LIKE THE CAR", HOW IS THAT? BETTER? I had a 2002 4 door, brand new. Also I think the Jetta's look cheap. If you look at it from the front, it looks like a Kia.
    Every car on the market has their weaknesses. Nothing in life is perfect, not even a $100,000 car.

    I traded in the car because I was putting over $2,500 a year to maintain it and the warranty was out already.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    so you didnt have a rabbit? You had a 2002 golf?

    2 completley different cars...if you hate the golf, post it in the golf forum.

    ....and if you are talking about the rabbit...what made you want one after your previous experience? the mazda 3 did exist when the rabbit/mkV came to our shores... :confuse:
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    just asking why someone is hatin' is legit anymore?

    Thats about the cars is it not? If i hate something, i state why, i don't just post and wait for someone to call me out on it to explain myself. :blush:
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