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Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit
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Gee, I've heard Siberia is absolutely lovely in May.....
Let's just say that I've just passed 30,000 miles in my Mazda3 with just one stop to the dealer for a regular scheduled maintenance. I have also added some electronic parts in my Mazda, and I have no electronic problem at all like a VW.
Even if the Mazda3 is lined against a Golf V6 2.8L, there is no way for the VW to beat the Mazda3 on a curvy course with or without cars around. Let me clarify that I upgraded my Golf IV GLX with some Momo 17" rims with Yokohoma tires, and it couldn't even compete. With the Mazda3, you can dance on road consistently any day, even on your worst day. With the Golf IV, you can dance on the road too but not consistenly with ease: eventually, you'll calm down, and will try to catch the Mazda3 on a straight line with the V6 and higher displacement advantages.
Try Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. The Mazda3 is simply the most stable car in its class. The only car that I can think of that can beat the Mazda3 (not Mazdaspeed3) is a Miata!
Even my friend's Lancer Ralliart is left in dust when it comes to twisty roads facing (or I should say 'rearing') the Mazda3. And we are talking 2.3L (Mazda3 auto) vs 2.4L (Lancer Ralliart manual). Both have 17" rims stock. The Mazda3 has some cheaper Korean tires, and the Ralliart has some more expensive Bridgestone rubber. :P
I was hoping that the new Impreza or WRX would be a better deal, but I think I'm gonna wait for the next generation Mazda3 that should come in 1-2 years after the new Matrix rumored to have 2.4L.
Rabbit??? What Rabbit!?! :lemon:
your comparisons are very nice...to bad none of them are talking about the rabbit and they are all about the 3 versus previous versions. :sick:
as far as handling goes, everyone knows that the mkIII and mkIV golfs were less than stellar, putitng rims and better tires wont really solve your problem, its your springs, shocks and struts that need replacing/upgrading. (remember how even YOU pointed out that the 3 can outhandle many cars even with less than great tires?)
even so, comparing a car of a couple generations past is harldy fair...and thats not what this comparo is about...
as far as handling goes, everyone knows that the mkIII and mkIV golfs were less than stellar, putitng rims and better tires wont really solve your problem, its your springs, shocks and struts that need replacing/upgrading. (remember how even YOU pointed out that the 3 can outhandle many cars even with less than great tires?)
even so, comparing a car of a couple generations past is harldy fair...and thats not what this comparo is about... "
Who doesn't know that the new Golf V(I'm sorry Rabbit, right?) has improved chassis, suspension, and etc...? It's the based model of a new generation Golf versus the highest end of the older generation comparison. The base Golf V (I'm sorry Rabbit for ya) doesn't even have "raintronic," let alone a V6 with 2.8L. And like I said before, the Golf IV GLX was already superior inside than the Mazda3 GT.
So if you give me a newer Golf with improved chassis, and etc..., that cannot still match against a similar motor from Mazda/Ford (we are talking here 2.5L vs 2.3L), I will not even try to remember such car, and try to match it with a Mazda3.
I used to be a hardcore VW fan. I may still be, but I pick what is best. I'm not defending Mazda. In fact, I don't defend any brand anymore. IMO the Mazda3 is simply a better car: handling, driving features(e.g. HID, rain sensor, and LED= better vision; less worries about burning lights; more focus on driving), and reliability. Sure, the "R@bbit" is more confortable, but I will not be the first or the last one to b*t+ at the end at VW Service Dept.
But if you got the money to play and plan to keep the R@bbit for about 2 years, I would say that the Rabbit is a better choice. In that case, a lease would be best with a Rabbit. The Mazda3, on the other hand, is an owner/"Driver" car like I have previously mentioned.
Note: I say "Driver" the old slogan of VW's ads.
what? who doesn't know? hmmm...
first you compare the mazda 3 to the older model golf, (not the mkV golf or rabbit as its known here in the states.), but now you are saying you are comparing the newer rabbit to the older golfs? Very confusing. Just because there is no vr6 golf anymore, doesn't mean its not worthy of comparison to the mazda 3 (which never has or currently does not have a v-6 so i don't even know why you bothered to mention it.)
yes the suspension is very different from the mkIV and mkIII golfs, its fully independant. THe reason the rabbit is not as quick as the 3 is because of the added weight, the trade off being a more compliant and solid ride.
The Rabbit does have intermittent wipers, which i guess is what you keep calling 'raintronic'. just because vw decided not to call it that, does not mean the feature is abstent on the car.
So if you give me a newer Golf with improved chassis, and etc..., that cannot still match against a similar motor from Mazda/Ford (we are talking here 2.5L vs 2.3L), I will not even try to remember such car, and try to match it with a Mazda3.
huh? you are choosing not to acknowledge its existence now? Just because in your eyes it is not up to par with the 3, (which in the handling dept many know that its not, but few cars in this class are.), does not mean that it is not a good match;
it has more torque, a more solid ride, nicer interior than the 3 (if less sport oriented) and a suspension that is just as advanced, if not as aggresively tuned as the mazdas.
Again, the fact it does not have a v-6 doesn't mean its not a worthy competitior (enter the gti....)
I dont understand why THIS thread is plauged with the prev generation golf comparos, i didn't think so many people on this forum would have such a problem with a name change.
No one on the civic vs mazda 3 forum had any trouble realizing it was the LATEST gen civic that was being used in the comparison, why here?
if you want to compare the mkI-MkIV GOLF to the Mazda 3, post it in the GOLF forums. (hence why there is seperate GOLF and RABBIT threads.)
sheesh. :sick:
No, the Mazda3 has actual rain-sensing wipers, not just intermittent wipers.
I think we all knew that the Speed6 was not comming back. For it was only slated for a 2yr run. I figured the wagon would not come back as well. Sales have not been that great.
Interesting that the Mazdaspeed3 has no total end production number or end production date, as was set for the Speed6 from the beginning of it's run.
As for MS3 - they originally set a run of 5K. It only makes sense to continue a successful run of the model. The only downside - a very tiny bit of credibility is lost
I know the Mazdaspeed3 is slated for 5K units for MY2007, but, that's it. There was no saying how long they will be building it...
- diesel Mazda3
- hybrid Mazda3
- Mazdaspeed3 2008 pricing, added features, colors
- new components seen in concept vehicles over the last year
i think so, at least thats how mine is i belive.
Shirotori good call on the rain sensing wipers thing, it is only available on the decked out gt, and i think for a couple thousand bucks less, people could def do without them.
(if it starts raining, I have no problems turning on my wipers. How lazy have we gotten? Rain sensing wipers...
Let's hope it happens sooner rather than later. Aren't diesels already being manufactured for Mazda and aren't Mazda3 diesels being sold in the European Union? Diesel cars have always been big over the pond.
That's for US version? On Canadian version, as I posted, you get it on the GS, which retails for the same as a base Rabbit 3-door.
Keep in mind, to go with their theme of "Zoom-Zoom", they would have to offer a diesel that packs a decent punch, while getting mid 30's to low 40's in fuel economy. Can it be done? Yes. But, it takes time. Mazda is marketed differently in Europe then over here. We are in the land where Honda and Toyota reign supreme for imports. Not so much the case in Europe.
... and gas here is a lot more affordable. As prices inch up, the move to more efficient vehicles will follow. What does a gallon of regular cost in your neck of the woods?
It's almost like going from HID back to halogen headlights.
"Raintronic" was first available in the very first GLX model in the IV generation of VW.
Basically, the rain sensor automatically adjust the speed of the wipers, and would stop as need it as well. For instance, have you seen in some situation just after it rains that you or some other drivers still have their wipers still running while they've passed in some area that rain less? In some cases, the wipers might be running at a faster speed than needed, and the driver hasn't adjusted the speed of the wiper yet, damaging the wipers. This, of course, prolonged the life of the wipers, decreasing stops to go buy and replace wipers.
I could go on, then start talking about HID, LED, reliability, handling, and etc... But why bother? Those options are not even available in the "R@bbit." For those who keeps babbling non-sense of how good a VW can be, they could learn things themselves.
And as far as taking a GTI against a normally aspirated engine Mazda3, I thank you for showing us your knowledge on cars. The GTI will be against a Mazdaspeed3.
Although the GTI feels better because power delivery is tweaked at a lower rpm compared to a Mazdaspeed3, the GTI could just step out of the ring course when it comes time for real driving. Spank you very much!
I'm ready for a diesel. In 2-3 years from now, Honda and Nissan/Renault will be bringing diesel engine to the U.S.. Let's just hope that Mazda would be doing the same too.
If VW plans to offer a TDI R@bbit, it may be at an advantage against competitor. But since nothing is annouced yet, we can only guess that it would probably available after the Jetta is released first with the TDI engine. That would put the TDI R@bbit available either by the end of 2008, or early 2009. Those dates are too close to Honda and Nissan release of their diesel version. Might as well wait and see in what model(s) the Japanese makers would offer, then shop for the best one. As you can see, VW marketing strategy sucks, and it's no new News. I've posted this long time ago in some VW forums site. And I'm not going to give any more free feedback for VW on the internet anymore because they already know what is wrong.
Yes I'm aware the GTI is turbocharged, and I'm also aware that the Mazda speed3 exists. The thing to remember is that the Rabbit is more of a world wide car for the masses, whereas the Mazda 3 is a bit more niche than that (sportier than most in its class). So the Rabbit is going to be playing to a wider audience and not as "sporty". The GTI is the version of the Rabbit/Golf that is the sporty version.
I think Mazda has done it already.
In mazda.co.uk there are a whole slew of different Mazda3 models including one called Mazda3 Katano. What I find especially interesting is that there are quite a few different Mazda3 diesels, including a 2.0 litre hatchback with 143 hp that reportedly delivers 47.1 mpg overall fuel economy! And being a diesel it has incredible torque, too!
That said, I'm a big fan of diesels and do hope they catch on here more than just at the fringes.
Honda wont be bringing one over until around 2009 and its going to be in accord guise...
so you have basically pointed out 2 diesel vehicles that will cost A LOT more than a tdi rabbit, and that will be coming out at the same time if not later than the vw.
I don't see how vw has the disadvantage in this. :confuse:
have you seen in some situation just after it rains that you or some other drivers still have their wipers still running while they've passed in some area that rain less? In some cases, the wipers might be running at a faster speed than needed, and the driver hasn't adjusted the speed of the wiper yet, damaging the wipers.
yes i've seen these drivers, and i'm NOT one of them. The fact still stands that a feature like this doesn't neccesarily make that gen. of golf 'better' than the rabbit, its just a feature that you prefer.
Me? I'd rather take the slew of safety features, side mirror turn indicators, nice stereo and aux jack, and NOT having to upgrade to the best golf to get decent performance/features.
with regards to the gti, thats for another thread, but there are many who prefer the vw's more livable nature than the performance-on-its-sleeve mazdaspeed3. Different strokes for different folks.
Driving impressions: After the C&D comparison test I was expecting there to be a significant difference. The VW's handling and acceleration were good. Ready low end torque. There was nothing about the VW that was a deal killer. The VW I drove had the optional 17 inch tires and I would be interested in whether anyone else thinks that made a difference. The VW auto tran. was more intuitive and responded quicker in the manual mode. However, at the end of the day, I think 3 was more fun to drive as it was more precise and responsive. The ride in both were also comparable as I didn’t feel any of the softness that I was expecting in the VW. (17 “ tires?). Slight edge to the 3.
Interior: IMO The Rabbit has a much nicer interior. The cloth seats are more substantial, felt more comfortable to me, the plastics looked high-quality, the dials were laid out nicely, and the radio was simple. The 3’s interior was passable in comparison. While I liked the black center counsel which looked high quality, the rest of the interior felt cheesier. As most of us spend time looking at the interior, I like nicer than not. All that said, the 3s interior was not bad and what you could expect in a $17,000 car.
One big difference that I was not expecting is the substantial difference in cargo space in the hatch area. I didn’t look at the cargo figures but the 3 had much more cargo room. The VW does not rule out a home depot run. But with 2 small kids, you end up toting more crap than you often think.
Pricing: On CarsDirect, the 3 prices about $1,000 less than the VW. However, the VW is listed on the deals of the month and I’m not certain how much dealing there’s to be done on the 3. Essentially could be about the same price.
Quality: Here’s the sticking point. Based on the above, I’m leaning toward the VW which surprises me as I’m a big fan of the 3. However, VW quality is a huge issue cost-wise and time-wise (who has time to waste taking the car to the shop?) My Mazda experience with a ’90 miata was a brake job and a new clutch at 60k and that was it.
So still on the fence and it may come down to which I can get cheapest.
You didn't mention reliability which many motorists consider very important but you do make the comment about wasting time and money servicing vehicles. Have you compared the reliability information provided by Consumer Reports and others? VW has a huge hurdle to overcome in that regard.
if you think about it....its the people who subscribe to them that get to dish out the ratings on the cars...having said that, what are the chances of consumer reports buyers continually buying vw's that they have rated badly in the past? you think they would have learned their lesson. :P I dunno, its seems like a good way to keep cars that have been rated well, continually rated well; and a way to keep suppossed crappy cars crappy.
aside from pricey service, my bunny has been good to me.
On thing for sure, both VW and MB, recently admitted quality is their top priority, because their are lagging in it and it shows in sales numbers.
Actually, CR checks for these cases. If the sample is too small, they note that and do not list the results. The CR poll is one of the largest sources of actual consumer opinions available.
That said, it's more likely you'll get a dependable vehicle than a lemony one no matter the make.
IMO, the rabbit really shouldn't be a direct competitor to the 3 (and civic, etc.). As you noted, the rabbit has significantly less space than most c segment cars, and it always has (even as a golf). I've often thought about buying a rabbit/golf, but it seemed more like a luxury b segment than a c segment.
3 and Rabbit specs
The real difference is in the longer cargo area which (of course) makes for a bigger boot for the Mazda 3. But passenger space looks pretty close.
The rabbit/golf may have always been kinda small, but so has the jetta, which vw considers to be its midsize. The 3 series has always been tight on space, but that doesn't make it any less of a competitor to bigger luxury sport sedans. Anyway, this is totally of subject. The rabbit IS a competitor to the civic/mazda3/nissan sentra and the like, wether the size specs support it or not.
With regards to consumer reports, i have been continually checking to see if there is any info with regards to the rabbit; there is still not enough data to rate. And while the gti does not have a checkmark, cr does claim its one of the better smaller sporty cars, and the ratings are not horrendous.
Even so, my orginal arugument still stands; and maybe people who DO have crappy vw's go out and subscribe to them.
It will never end i guess.
Plus, getting the two door only penalizes ease of entry, since the 2 and four door are exactly the same spec wise. (one just has longer doors.)
The Rabbit essentially feels like a nicer vehicle. We're doing zip car and, coincidentially, this weekend I had a 3 and a jetta. (I loved driving the 3 but the Jetta felt pretty soft) The consumer reports ratings have not been so much an issue as the stuff friends say about pieces falling off that shouldn't wear.
On the interior space issue, they felt the same. One interesting thing is that the darker interior in the 3 proably makes it seem smaller. The cargo area size difference is considerable.
All in all, I think we will end up with the 3 based on my great experience with a miata that had no problems at all. However, if I get a screaming deal on the Rabbiut, it may end up in the mix again.
The 3 was very responsive on the gas pedal, and the steering was responsive and a little bit stiff compared to the Rabbit. The Rabbit was about equal in responsiveness, and "vroomy" in 1st and 2nd gear. The steering was much smoother compared to the Mazda, which I preferred. I did not get to take the Rabbit on the freeway, so I didn't see how it handled at speeds above about 50 mph.
As far as roominess goes, I am a musician and have lots of gigantic equipment that I've got to tote around so I plan on spending a lot of time with my backseats folded forward. I need about 52-56 inches of clearance to fit a keyboard lengthwise in a hard case. With seats folded down the Rabbit seemed a little bit bigger. I did not bring my measuring tape with me so my math could be wrong. I might have “perceived" that the rabbit was a bigger because of its lighter interior color as some of the other posts mentioned. A cool feature of the Rabbit is that its Logo is the handle to open the rear hatch. Very cool, and again subtle.
One side note, I broke the center rear view mirror while on my test drive! Or maybe I just snapped it off, I wasn't sure and the salesperson didn't seem to be too worried. I was testing the flap that switches the mirror for when you are in front of high beams and it just rotated the mirror up towards the roof of the car, and when I tried to adjust it I accidentally snapped the thing off! :shades:
No comments about the stereo system since I test drove both cars with the radio off to listen to the engine noise.
The Mazda3 seemed to not have as much rear window visibility and I noticed a slightly larger blind spot in the Mazda3 than in the Rabbit. This is saying a lot considering the second half of my test drive on the Rabbit, the salesperson had the center rear view mirror in his lap.
As far as the "fun" factor of the two cars goes, it is really a matter of preference. The Rabbit is more subtle and smooth while still packing some nice power in its 5 cylinder, while the Mazda3 hatchback makes no apologies for its sporty look and feel across the board.
I really enjoyed both cars, but at the end of the day am leaning towards the Rabbit. I was really in to the VW GOLF more than a year ago, (long before my legitimate car search began!) and am hopelessly biased towards the new 4 door Rabbit. Just to be sure I plan on postponing making any decision on a new car for a while, and will look in to the flaws in both the Mazda3, the Rabbit, and any other car I plan on looking at before committing.
It's too bad the TDI Rabbit isn't available in California, the increased MPG with the diesel engine would make this a much easier decision. Depending on where my car search takes me, I might try to smuggle one in from out of state.
One Last Thing:
I also got a chance to poke my head inside the new 2008 Scion XB, but was not able to test drive since they did not have an automatic on the lot, and I can't drive stick. There doesn't seem to be too much info about the 2008 XB online, (at least compared to the Mazda3 and Rabbit) although I haven't been looking too hard. All three models have similar gas mileage, and a sports shifting mode on their automatic models, and very very sharp interiors. So I plan on testing this car out and comparing it to the rabbit as well in this forum.
-Abel
This gives VW several advantages as the car can be lighter to be a better handler or about the same weight while having better sound deadening or other luxury... etc. Thus, if one doesn't need the cargo room, the Rabbit can be a very smart choice indeed.
Still a great buy.