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Very true. There isn't a set age limit to drive a premium brand. That isn't the point. You are paying for your premium brand, while the 16 year old kids most likely aren't. I know there are exceptions to every rule. Most might have to buy their own gas or something like that, but they really aren't responsible for the meat of the upkeep. A 16 year old would be hard-pressed to make enough money, while going to high-school, to pay for anything near even the loan payment.
In your situation, you are paying for the car and presumably the insurance and all of the happiness that comes with it. I'd like to drive a premium brand (ie Acura, Audi, BMW,) but I can't afford one.
Jealous of those who can? No, I'm working with what I have. The car I have is pretty nice, paid for by me. I have an 03 Accord LX with 56k on it. To me it's about as premium as I would want.
I can't see spending 40k on a car, but that's just me. It's been said before and it will be said again. "To each his own."
I did not mention anything about there needing to be an age limit established to prevent kids from driving premium brands. I just think that when parents buy a kid a missile with tires for his or her first car that there is a certain lack of thinking on their part, critical or otherwise. And that lack of thinking could get someone killed which is why I take exception to some car purchases for kids.
"For the last 2 years I drove a Land Rover/BMW my prents cars. The thinks people on this forum are saying about teen drivers just makes them seem completely outdated and jealous."
I have also driven my parents "premium brand cars" before but I do not see how it holds any relevance to this particular conversation other than for you to showcase how well off you believe yourself to be. I am certainly not jealous of you mainly for the fact that instead of my parents giving me a flashy nameplate, I got something much more significant which is the sense of responsibility and value that comes with purchasing your own car. That will get me a hell of alot farther than a bmw or audi in life. And I do not think it is "outdated" for people to be concerned about their children.
Why would you want you child to drive a small vehilce that just got their license or is learning to drive. One recent poster mentioned cars such as the volkswagen rabbit, ford focus, and the honda fit as great teenage cars. It doesn't matter how many airbags these vehicles have. If these small car gets into an accident with a full size car or something such as a midsize SUV the person in the compact car is at a major disadvantage. It simply has to do with the laws of physics. These compact are are so much lighter, somtimes as much by 1,500 pounds than a full size car.
It's best to have your child drive a car with a lot of "meat" around it. I even see a growing number of teenagers drive minivans now. Even a used mercury grand marquis would be a nice car for a beginning driver. I learned how to drive using a mid size suv. Yes, suvs aren't for everyone. Some people say suvs are not safe but thats what I used to learn how to drive. You should buy a full size or atleast a midsize car for your teenager to drive. A minivan would be also be great becuse they carry a lot of passangers safely..
People shouldn't be putting cost and savings for mpg as the top reasons for buying their child a car. Safety should be the number one priority. You guys buying those compact cars for your children are making a big mistake.
Hell I'd be pleased with a Fusion if I were him. Some upper-middle class kids may think its a low end thing, but most middle classers already consider Fusion a statement of "cool". I remember last year Fusion was the hot car at the HS my sister went to, "Hey, Smallville" or "Erica Durance" were the 2 comments I heard the most. It no longer does now, but you get the idea.
When I was 16 I was given a "97 4 door, stickshift, rear drum brakes, ABS? forget it. Today's parents might get heart attacks from hearing this alone, but it really helped me learn how to handle cars properly. Admittedly saying "today's parents" makes me feel much older than I really am :P
I stand with my words that ESC is more a gimmick than a true savior.
Another thing you should do is to take your son to the dealership with you. No, not to ask for his opinion, hell no. Its to get your son to sit in the car and make sure he can get a comfortable driving position and proper visibility. Such things really matter but many people neglect.
Just an example: dont get anyone taller than 5"11 a Corolla (seats too short, no headroom left), while shorter ones should avoid any pre-2005 Mustang (steering wheel and pedals are located a mile ahead, imagine sitting on a bar stool). Any novice should avoid SUVs and large cars (too much to drive), yes its safe when he gets hit, but he'll most likely hit something, or worse, someone.
But that's the rub. By putting your teen driver into a big vehicle you may be putting others at greater risk - the same laws of physics apply. And when everyone armors up it's not a pretty picture for anyone.
Driving a smaller car may induce a teen (or anyone else for that matter) to drive more carefully.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I'm in Oklahoma, so it's pretty moderate. We get some snow, more ice than snow, though. I like Subarus, but used ones are hard to find in this area, they are pretty rare.
He drove a used 2007 Sonata on Saturday, he liked it, and it's pretty reasonably priced (under $12k) and still under warranty. We may go that way.
I stand with my words that ESC is more a gimmick than a true savior.
Why do you say that? I've seen a lot of articles citing tests and studies concluding that ESC reduces the risk of a single vehicle accident significantly. Just wondering what you base that opinion on. I've never driven a car with ESC, so I really don't know.
That 07 Sonata could be a pretty reasonable choice. I haven't looked up on the price.
Oops, sorry I missed this part of your post, forget my Subie recommendations then.
For your budget there are tons of midsize cars out there. As for Sonata, as long as you're prepared for the resale sting, its a decent car thats also cheap to maintain and insure.
Here are my concerns with ESC:
Dont get me wrong, ESC helps somewhat. But you lost the sense of control when the ESC does all the thinking for you, so you'll have a hard time learning to be a better driver. ESC will save your son for now, but for the long term? This becomes a problem when the emergency situation is inevitable. Will he be able to save himself or left gripping the wheel and scream? Like someone said earlier, ESC doesnt make a better driver. Maybe 16 yr is too young for most, I'm not sure, so I suggest your son to at least maintain driving experience in a car w/o ESC once he's older.
ESC helps prevent emergencies, but doesnt help when the emergency actually comes in. In fact, I find myself having less control of the car during such occasion, as the stability control's taking over and do all the thinking for me. My Acura comes standard with ESC and thats exactly what it did when the car suddenly lost traction on icy surface last winter. I was prepared to take emergency maneuvers when the system suddenly "stabilized" itself and left me guessing for controls. Fairly speaking each brand's esc setting is different, so this may not be your case afterall.
This is the most important imo: many kids actually drive worse with ESC. No, its not ESC's fault, but knowing the system's there makes them think that ESC will save them no matter how sloppy their driving is. They become less aware, distract themselves with ease. This actually happens here, where a local newspaper studied this subject and even made a poll 2 years ago.
Just my 2 cents
I agree. But, on the flip side of that argument, some will say you're putting an inexperienced driver behind the wheel of a big heavy SUV or full sized sedan...putting others in smaller cars needlessly at risk.
Me? Jealous of a 19 year old with a G35? YOU'RE DARN RIGHT I'M JEALOUS! :mad:
As to being outdated I'll have you know I have all the latest records by the Beatles and Elvis.
Seriously though, us old fogeys speak from experience of what we have seen and done in our youth. Some of us got lucky and are here to post, some weren't so lucky. So cut us some slack and take our comments for what their worth.
Odds are you won't. You'll just learn the hard way. Hope you are one of the lucky ones. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You still have a functioning turntable? :surprise:
Odds are you won't. You'll just learn the hard way. Hope you are one of the lucky ones.
If I recall the G35 comes with ESC. :P
I'm think 03 Taurus, $6k maybe, and 160 hp to motivate 3500 lbs of car. It's old enough where it wouldn't be too expensive to insure and common enough where parts are easily found at a junkyard. My friend's brother got one that was torn up for $800.
However, also keep in mind that a lot of teenagers get into single vehicle accidents. So that extra space would be a benefit to them.
I was always amazed that my car was the 2nd to oldest car in my family and yet it was worth more than all of the rest of the cars in my family. I look at kelly bluebook fairly often. I'm weird that way.
On a side note:
I disagree that a kid shouldn't have any say in the car that they get. If a person is going to spend the money on something that is going to be driven it needs to be something that the kid isn't going to purposely beat the snot out of. I know many kids, if they don't like a car, will beat the crap out of it and then you're back at square one. I think the wisest move is to do research on a number of different cars and narrow it down to 3 or 4 and let the kid pick. By all means don't say you can get anything you want as long as it's under $X. A lot of times a kid will go for all show and no go, meaning the car might be a pile of scrap, but it would look cool. If I'm confusing sorry.
I just know that I am very recently out of the age group being discussed. I'll chime in once in a while to give my perspective.
Not even close, westgmn. Take a look at what I've seen:
Here where I live you'll see at least a couple 18 y.o kids driving Ferrari F360 there. Cake taken already? No, my friend, thats just icing on the cake, these kids drive those Ferraris to.... (brace yourself, barf bucket in hand) .... the local COMMUNITY COLLEGE!!!!!!!! I encountered this baffling sight 2 months ago when I met a client there (who happens to be a staff), of course as the community college is only 3 blocks away from work then this has become a regular view to me. If you havent barfed enough, here's the cherry topping:
I asked one of them about the ferrari, he replied: "yeah its my highschool graduation present, cool aint it?"
I asked if he's visiting there, he shamelessly replied "No, I go to school here"
I asked him if he's kidding me, he gave me a blank stare " Huh, why? Did I say something funny?"
Brain-dead? Understatement. Brain-less? Jackpot. Searching for brain:... ... Brain Not Found :P :P :P
On the other hand, I once met a 19 y.o who drives an '06 Jaguar XJ. I asked about the car, he said he was given 25k for a car, he worked a bit to add $2k and got himself the Jag. The Jaguar is a CPO, thus theres a 1+2 yr warranty that matches the Camry's. Both cars pull 20 mpg. The Jag needs premium fuel but the free maintenance (that the camry doesnt have) covers the difference. Brain dead? More like a smart shopper to me.
3rd case, I know a friend of my sister's who drive another Ferrari (I think it was an F355).
I asked her about the car and she simply said "Just for today"
I asked her why a Ferrari, she said "Its the only thing left in the garage, I usually take my dad's Cayenne but he needs it right now"
I asked her if she ever felt the cars are too expensive for her, she said "I can ask them to buy me a car but that'll be a waste of their money, so I just drive whatever's in the garage. As long as I dont drive like an idiot I guess I'll be fine"
Here's the thing. Like everyone else I agree there's no age limit to a luxury brand or any car for that matter. Additionally, I dont think giving a 100k or even 1 million dollar car to a 16 y.o is a mistake, IF the driver is responsible enough. Whether said driver is responsible or not is something we can decide, we simply cannot pass such judgement. I have personally met a 14 y.o girl who happens to be wiser and more mature than my 30 y.o co-worker. Thats why I dont think the Jaguar kid's parents are making a terrible judgement, however I do think the Ferrari boy's parents are brain dead. Their son is only smart enough to get into a community college and they gave him a Ferrari? Come on.
If you do, please remember that there's about 1 person like you in a million.
If you dont, then I'm sorry but you dont deserve to call that car yours.
Me? I could drive my parents lexus or mb but my dad decided I need the true driving lesson. Didnt matter as I was happy enough with my "junkmobile" when I was in school. Its a terrible car compared to my parents', but I ealrned to drive in any possible condition with it. As the result now I can drive a Lexus LX through a tight space with no more than 4 inches of room on either side smoothly. No worries
Here's the other side of the coin. I consider myself smart, but I can't afford to go to anything but a community college. My parent's couldn't even afford to buy me a $2000 car let alone a Ferrari.
Perhaps, he's at a community college because his parents can't afford anything after the Ferrari. Either way it's not a smart thing. Or they gave him a choice saying you can go to any school you want or you can have a Ferrari. Stupid I agree, but what can I say?
My mom has said it over and over again. It seems that kids end up being accessories. Meaning that since the parents work all the time they buy their kids expensive crap as a way of saying "Look what I can afford to give my kid."
No attacks on my side either, but it seems fairly accurate.
You don't know that. There are many reasons why one would choose a community college over, say, a four year liberal arts school. You also said "we simply cannot pass such judgement" with regard to responsibility but it would seem to apply here just as well.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Have you considered having her take the school bus? Not as fancy as a Civic but she could learn to shift by watching the driver. Save gramps for driving her to a job so she can save up for a car of her own.
If she balks at the idea of the school bus, tell her to think of it as a chauffeur driven 66 passenger SUV.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
it is a lot easier to let the kids drive themselves when they have after school activities, especially when there is no bus by the time it is done.
now in college, she doesn't have a car to drive. there is plenty of other transportation. now, #2 is driving the explorer to shool.
Anyways to me the IS is a decent idea, none too flashy nor too expensive (resale is pretty weak for this model). And the idea of monthly payment teaches her responsibility. I'm not sure driving stick is that hard, but as less and less americans know how to drive stick, maybe its just me.
I think the IS would be a good idea, since it is fully paid for, as it seems that if you treat them well many Japanese models won't give you any problems. I know there are exceptions to every rule. Also, you know this car and don't have to guess at how well somebody has treated it and or maintained it.
Frankly, I do not have a problem with individual who bought the jag. They were given a reasonable price range and they were able to find a car that they enjoy. I also applaud the fact that the individual worked in order to put some of their own money into the car. You are completely correct, they were a smart shopper.
My daughter just turned 16 and wants her own vehicle. We live in northwest Arkansas - lots of hills and curves. Our house is about 4 miles down a dirt road. I have a 4WD Tahoe (love it), my husband has a Sierra (not 4WD, and he gets stuck in the driveway when ground is wet). So, my daughter probably needs 4WD. But, I don't think a small car with low clearance would work. Also, I would get stuck and/or slide with my 4WD before I got "offroad" tires.
People on the other discussion suggested Impreza, Vibe and Matrix. Would these options fit my needs? Or, is there other suggestions?
BTW, most teenagers around here, even girls, drive pickups.
And, I am looking for a used vehicle.
The nice part about the Escape is that it's been around long enough that you can get a used one for $6k or less. I haven't looked into them, but the Escape has been around since 2000(not sure of the year), but I know that Ford's lose their value pretty fast, even though they are still about average in terms of reliability.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Less than $20,000 - would really like it to be closer to $12,000.
New Suzuki SX4?
Or just go with the lightly used Subaru.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1) Do you need room or pickups are just fine?
2) What size do you expect, midsize, somewhat compact? She's 16 so I discourage getting her anything large like your Tahoe.
3) Does fuel economy matter much?
4) Who'll pay for gas and maintenance?
5) Depreciation. Are you planning to resale it anytime soon, or drive it till it drops?
My assumption so far: she'll pay for gas at least. So gas guzzlers are out. Here's what I think:
As a former Escape v6 driver I can say it's a decent AWD ride. Roomier than you might expect, and cheap maintenance. Downsides are few: crude sounding engine, CD player kept scratching my cds even after being replaced, and large amount of brakedust.
However, please remember this: avoid the 4-cyl. models at all cost! The engine's prone to numerous problems includng misfiring, fuel economy barely any different from v6, plus you get a lot of clutch slipping as bonus.
As a consideration a used 1yr old v6 model can be had for $15-16k around here. My top recommendation.
Matrix-Vibe twin not a bad choice, but they're on the small side. Their AWD also meant for light duty, I wonder if your terrain condition allows that. Should you decide to choose this model I recommend the Vibe for it's higher ground clearance and lower price. Another suggested Suzuki SX4. This is a decent vehicle, but really small, and I doubt the AWD works for your case.
If you prefer Japanese products I recommend Subaru or Nissan. The others are either too expensive or unreliable.
Subaru has the most durable AWD I can think of. An older used one isn't that much of an issue as Subaru engines are known to last longer than the rest of the car itself. The only potential problem is it's a wagon thus stands closer to the ground. I don't know how bad the road gets in your are but I'd give it a try since Impreza and Outback survive dirt road better than most people think. Also, I don't think the CR-V and Rav4 are good ideas. No matter what they say those aren't meant for actual dirt-road. They'll get stuck way before the Subaru does, and they cost more thanks to ridiculously strong resale. A 2yr old Impreza wagon cost about $18-19k, whereas 2yr old CRVs and Rav4s can strangle you with the $22-25k price tag.
Is resale a big consideration? If not you can take advantage of Subaru's AWD in the form of Saab 9-2x. Its basically a blatant Impreza wagon ripoff, but it depreciate so deeply you can get the same MY(model year) 92x as the Subaru for the same price or (sometimes even) less!!!
The other model I dare recommend is Nissan's X-terra. Not the best model from Nissan nor the most fuel efficient, and it looks umm... macho, but it handles dirt and ditches with ease. I dare say that as I've seen those going up the Aspen. Nissan's not so great resale should put good value for your budget.
Another potential product, though rarely (if ever) mentioned is Kia's Sorento. Reliability not so good, but on par with domestics. Midsize at compact price, strong AWD (I've seen a couple of those on the Aspen along w/ the X-terra) it's brother Hyundai doesn't have. Add generous warranty + horrific resale and you get huge value. A 1yr old top-end Sorento should cost no more than $14k loaded. This should offset dismal 18mpg fuel economy a bit. I dont suggest it if you plan on reselling it, but otherwise its a great value.
Goodluck.
good news is the side airbags deployed and she suffered no physical injury.
none of the emergency personnel had ever seen anything like it.
I wonder if its her driving or the SUV. What make-model-year is it?
"was" it.......
But wait, I thought it's supposed to be "was" if the suv is history or she no longer drives it. "is" if she still has it..... :confuse:
Oh well, either way it's still my mistake as there's no way any car can be in one piece after 2 consecutive rollovers.
How did I pass english 101???? :confuse:
basically it looks like drove up the side of a pickup truck parked on the street.
best guess is she hit the gas instead of the brake pedal.
How was she let out on the highway with such poor driving skills?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
my explorer has had 3 accident repairs.
2 were the fault of an adult driver in another vehicle.
-Good gas mileage
-Sporty look, I like spoilers but not a necessity
-Would like AWD but I'm fine with front
-Reliable
-I would prefer a car that if I needed to sell the price wouldn't drop drastically
-Would like it to be used
-$20k or less
I had been looking at the 2009 Dodge Avenger, but after reading reviews it seems like it has a lot of issues. Although I love its sporty look and the spoiler on the R/T, but I don't know what to get. I would like every ones opinion, any car will do as long as it closely fits what I want. Thank You!
I went with the LX but you could get the EX and get a little bit more, but you would be paying for it, of course. From your list though I don't think that an EX would be necessary. The only thing that it came with that I would like is a sunroof, but I'll live.
It makes any difference I'm 20 and I love this car.
Since it seems your taste runs towards American nameplates, how about the Pontiac Vibe? I have an '07 with 17k and stick shift and punched it into Manheim a couple weeks ago... the car would probably not even fetch $10 at auction right now. You should be able to snag a nice 07 or 08 automatic with 20-30k miles for $12. If you like the car at all, that's a fantastic deal.
I'd forget about used Hondas, not because they're bad, but because their resale is very high... no point in buying used.
There are plenty of good new cars to be had for < $20, too. And they have long warranties while you pay them off. Just something to think about.
Good luck,
-Mathias
Hopefully you came back to check the replies these nice people gave you to your question.
My recommendations would be to check out used Mazda 3's\Proteges, Ford Focuses, and as already mention the Pontiac Vibe.
I know you said your budget was $20k, but being still in college I would hope you would keep it under $10k.
A used Impreza isn't a bad idea, although for $20K you could probably buy a NEW Impreza. (not that I would recommend it, just that you could)
What about a Nissan Altima? Depreciates quicker than the Accord (so you pay less for it... a used Accord will cost you an arm and a leg) but it's not as boring as a Camry. Reliability of some years were a bit iffy, but I would venture to say that the '03, '04, '06 and '07+ models were generally reliable, according to CR.
I would also look into the Pontiac Vibe and Mazda Protege5, as others have already mentioned.
It would be better if you considered your individual "needs" rather than your "wants". If you're tall, that will affect your choice for headroom and legroom. Do you need to transport a bike or kayak on the roof? Then you'd need roofracks, decent factory rails, or a fit for aftermarket racks (see Yakima.com for "fit my car"). Do you need to parallel park on the steet? Drive in the snow or offroad? Focus on actual needs and intended use and that will narrow it down greatly.